pond

false doctrines is one discussion. Callin somone a Rapist and a sexual preditor is something eles isnt it Rascal? What I said is I do not know anyones motives but this forum is for the entertainment of the readers and the posters is it not? it claims to tell the other story and it does a story with very little verifiable truth to it.

Im not aksing anyone to believe me. And I am not calling for justice I saw justice . Im NOT here to tell a story I did tell those who could DO something about the problem . not for kicks on the internet. or maybe I just made the whole thing up for kicks on the internet and THAT is the impact these types of forums . Am I a coward when it comes to posting on the internet ? you bet i do not post details of my life here or anywhere on the net. IM still trying to figure out why some would come up with these testimonys I do not care to guess . to vent in a micky mouse name is fun I guess and Lord knows plenty on this site live to read them. fun times .

My life also would have been VASTLY different. But the past is the past. I cant change it now. I cling to what I learned BECAUSE of getting involved with twi . some heavy lessons indeed that changed everyone in my family for life hopefully for eternity. I still enjoy the bible and I am still searching to know who God is and learning to trust the Lord Jesus as my Saviour. I pray. no I do not go to church. I do not know what my life would have been like without God and it was God almighty who has been my Father my entire life with many answered prayers and I think a good life. May God bless you and keep you Wacky

Sounda bad? no names no charges no police no not that because she loved the way so much? not blaming a victim but can this happen to any girl at any time by any one? 90percent of sexual abuse is done by a family member or close friend. these issues are not exclusive to the way ministry but what is weird is it is thrity years after the man died and refusal to give names (do you assume VPW was the region Leader she speaks of? doubt it ya know he never went by that title. so at the time she was afraid how about now at this writing why not name names? could it be fear of a slander charge ? or making false accusations which is a crime? nah not that just a nameless face less accusation . How do I know if it is true or not? that is the problem we do not. one can file a report with the police at any time , wether the DA choses to prosecute is up to evidence yet even years after a crime such as sexual abuse additional victims come forward from previous years this is how the catholic church got sued by so many. but no one it is vpw she names in fact she names no one . and he still has never been charged nor LCM. nor this "region leader" .

sexual conduct , abuse, adultrey words that do not define "rape". so everyone guilty of sexual misconduct( would this include any and all sexual misdeeds performed by all? WOW now that would be one guilty butch of folks would it not? still isnt rape. adultrey is wrong John S has written a paper on what the bible says about having sex with a person your not married to and also admited to being involved in the practice in his own marriage.....not rape again. people abuse power and one another yep true in so many aspects of life common in fact ! not rape. whee are the accusasions of rape ? i will tell you this i have guys hit on me every single day, say sexual type conversation etc...to me metion my looks and even been trapped in rooms by a few. men tend to do that to pretty women. not nice yet a part of life. even a supervisor who could get me unemployed and played the card a few times. I say loud and clear not interested NO STOP get away. my choice I guess. I believe in misconduct it does take two and it takes a willingness of character to say no . those unwilling to pay the cost may regret the outcome or just be unhappy with the reward! so they may complain . I could lose a co-worker possibly a job but I do not and iM not afraid either. young and foolish is one thing older and wiser is another ..... Yes it is wrong sexual misconduct happens but it does happen alot everywhere and most often only goes as far as the people involved allow it. it isnt rape

The thing is thess threads are about certain poster pecking one another over who is right or wrong. in all of these pages i read one account in which waysider posted from another thread from a valerie and that is the only reference to any violation , hardly "countless victims coming forward rather it is one or two posters who get excited about what another poster has said... yet theses testimonies of "rape" and all what waysider describes are not forth coming and the reason given they are not is because "they are attacked" oh come on. if the other side needs to be told and you so feel the need to let it be known for the safety of harm from a dead man then why why is it often one poster saying it happened we have testimonies from other people somwhere on this board oh yes countless rapes . where? oh yeah the burden comes down to the seeker to weed through all theses fights and anonymous names with stories to tell... hmmm why not document the facts with clarity ? and IF it is so above board why not put those testimonies in a thread to be read clearly and understood. hmmm? no it is once again certain posters saying it happened to this nameless faceless unaccount person and it must be the truth because they said it on a open public internet forum. i do not but YOU do the math and for some one who does not have a vested interest in cat fights and harming another poster on a personal base after YEARS of the same discussion it is more than difficult to see clearly it is impossible,

Rape is not having sex with a person. The Lord hasmany rules when it comes to how sex is to played in life. The criminal law of america has rules on what would be considered illegal or "rape". no one has ever brought forth charges against LCM or VPW other than a civil suit that never went to trial. many woman may have been flirted with and some may have even had sex with men they now realize wow what a fool I was and what a mistake. that doesnt make it a crime. wrong maybe not a crime tho. sin maybe depending on if you believe it to be so. the way it is read here is that many scores hundred of victims got raped and never told anyone never filed charges never had an oppurtunity to even tell a soul untill decades after the man died and the internet forum was made where in they can use anonymous names etc...no checks no accountability and tell their story . ok for one I do not even see that many stating rape, sex maybe regrettable sex maybe not rape and the numbers really do not confim "many" and one has to battle for that information on this site. soooo if a dirty old man tries to touch your booby 30 years later come on down and tell your story. If you had sex with a person thinking you were gonna get more praise or power or something from twi and now regret it come on here and tell your story. some here understand and wants to hear every detail over and over and over andover again . it is their side!

that is exactly why I feel this can be dismissed as stupid internet games, it comes down to who is who on greasespt and who you chose to believe is telling the one and only truth. just like twi. if your referring to the wendy book well it says she wrote a book about abusive cults... nothing about the crimes of any particular person . to engage in sex with a minister under false pretense and trickery is a different ball of wax than rape. that happens to many everyday and it is a sad lesson learned. and yes I do believe that is were the courts and law of america draws a line.

I learned a long time ago to assume nothing in this life. I wish people would stop guessing the motives of others. I wish people would stop assuming. it is unreliable and a far cry from truth. MY motive is not to defend anyone or thing but truth in matters. When I go to the store I say rag magazines that state the famous movie star just had an alien baby or some such nonesense. the fact is it is herald as a true story if you believe the writer and the magazine. FACT So you have a PUBLIC internet forum with no checks or balances other than the police who display their powers in a fight over the pecking order on the thread. and you have juicy story that is wow wee worth many hits on a thread and full of comments. no one knows who this person is or the motive they have to gain attention on this forum. so you assume it must be gospel truth and defend THAT? come on . ok for those not so invested in the excitement of all what this forum may mean to their life it is nothing more than the magazine on the rack at the store about the alien babys. exciting fun and juicy read , not much more to it really. and this is what you spend you finger pointing day defending? it is the other side of the story. it is just another story. is it the truth? is it ? how do YOU know that? you assume every writer on the public forum of the world wide web speaks all about what is true and no other motive could be possible such as attention or a funny to watch the people roar as they read it? if that is what your reality comes down to: than I would say integrity has completely lost its place in this community. and that is why it is so easily dismissed as nonesense and fun and games on the internet that is the real shame in all of this. Because i think people could be helped out of the mess twi made for some by a community that is healthy and honest , but that is not an automatic in life and certainly not on the internet is it? it takes truth to do that and facts that can be undisputed, and until that happens it is what it is. to defend what you defend as truth is for those not consumed by this forum just as silly as reading a rag magazine and believing it to be true as well. We can say or type anyting we darn well want in America does that make it truth for you? good luck with that.

It comes back to what i said before it is the standards in which one chooses to form their decisions. for some it is their friends on the internet... but I think and he can certainly explain his own self for WD and anyone who may be looking for information about twi, the standard may have to be different and with integrity and some of the implications on this site have zero integrity which may or may not be considered a common standard for all, it can be considered a base line to form a belief. I do not think it is about defending anyone really not in my thinking it is about reasonable thinking for self but again it is with a set standard of what is truth and I assume few posters coming here for information have a social circle set up and can also think about where their base line belief is. PFAL is a hard sell and if you know it than you know it is sold with more at stake than some friends you may form on a forum with stories to tell... and what is bothersome is the dismissing of the accounts that can be verified as accurant due to the constant implications that appear without any substance or proof.

What people belive is as wide as the world itself pawtucket. no boundaries, no rules, no right or wrong, no standard , no facts needed here just thoughts generated from whatever . no manipulation heck anything is gospel on the internet. many just accept what another says as truth here as well. and facts are manipulated no prove is ever needed. so compared to twi I have to say this is not exactly the perfect solution . I think those who get involved with twi can be aware of alot more information than I could when I joined for sure in part because of sites like greaspot. BUT to stretch that into somthing it isnt is wrong in my OPINION. I also believe anyone savy enough to use the internet (who isnt today?) can clearly see if VPW or LCM ever got into trouble with the law in civil or criminal matters! and to state falsehoods here lessen the over all integrity of what this site could offer. I believe the facts are enough to help people become informed. The claims which are only hear say and often times sound outrageous help no one but the tale bearer esteem their own self to the site.

opinion A personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty A belief or sentiment shared by most people; the voice of the people The legal document stating the reasons for a judicial decision A message expressing a belief about something; the expression of a belief that is held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof A vague idea in which some confidence is placed verdict (law) the findings of a jury on issues of fact submitted to it for decision; can be used in formulating a judgment We do not try people by popular opinion . maybe tazia you should study some more on how our system is working before you decide to set your self up as an expert in the field of law.

the article is about jury selection and the media influence on who should be picked or not. A verdict is not an opinion. far far from it. it is the law of which is prosecuted in the courts by evidence and much much more. Do you know why we have supreme court judges or congress or legislators ? give me a break here. so your saying in America we can put a man or woman to death because of a jury's opinion? I think not . lolol.ol

A couple of key words here " EVALUATING FACTS" even crittically she says! hmmm think now WD... the fact is this forum has annoymous posters say so as the only evidence to form" independent thought and opinion " oh did she say OPINION? yes I think she did . and that is all wd is saying it is "an opinion, an independant thought". "the need to critically evalulate facts...no arest no charges ever brought forward, nameless faceless witness, often third or fourth or more hearsay. Indeed we can all form an opinion. or independent thought. not getting your point now you seem to be saying exactly what wd has been saying .

A couple of key words here " EVALUATING FACTS" even crittically she says! hmmm think now WD... the fact is this forum has annoymous posters say so as the only evidence to form" independent thought and opinion " oh did she say OPINION? yes I think she did . and that is all wd is saying it is "an opinion, an independant thought". "the need to critically evalulate facts...no arest no charges ever brought forward, nameless faceless witness, often third or fourth or more hearsay. Indeed we can all form an opinion. or independent thought. not getting your point now you seem to be saying exactly what wd has been saying .

I can complain about the scores of folks I know that had their school bill paid by this state , and still do the original job they were hired that is civil service in a nut shell and a waste of resource and tax dollars. we just had a meeting and the bottom line if you get a promotion after years in the same job today you will be making LESS money than if you stay in your "lesser position. such as it is. civil service all have unions all have very huge contracts particularly the teachers UNION in NY!!!!! are you kidding me? every year a 5% raise never ever based on performance. School that. I think high school is tough and some of these schools have so many evil influences and I work in a school and see the teachers attitudes omg well enough is enough . no obama I do not agree.

Folks involved in civil service believe they are making a difference to america or the state or town they work within. Instead of saying it is Kodak that pays your bill (coporate name ) it is the USA.. lawyers go into politics with an agenda of changing the laws we live within. so it is a mind set. I work for the state and my boss say it is your tax dollars paying for this! more powerful than the company name and profit is on the line. obama thinks everyone thinks likehim that civil service and service to the people is the way to think. yeah not so much. as far as high school ok the bottom line is they are not safe in the cities and have huge problems, educating the students. not to metion the home school crowd who do not want their kids robbed of knowledge the schools wont touch due to political interference. two of my kids dropped out one in 8 th grade and let me tell you he walked in and took he GED test and passed with very very high grade with at best 7 years of school. hello? he is a nurse today My other daughter quit in high school 12 th grade when they told her she didnt have enough "seat time" to graduate, yet was passing her classes . I do not blame her. she has an excellent job and makes a ton of money without her high school degree. HOW? she proved herself a good worker and capable of being fair and just . so no I do not think folks should quit school but it is very difficult to say your a failure because one institution which really really stinks and has so many problems is not working for you.

It is scary to think that because a person is angry at what another said about you your guilty of acrime. the fact is LCM or VPW have never been arrested for any crime or brought up on charges or found in any sense of the word guilty. A civil suit was settled by the parties OUT of the court which means they settled their differences without the "people" judge or jury having any say in the manner. yes we do presume innocence, YET does that mean every person is innocent? no. At some point we have established a STANDARD WD speaks of the legal system , which is one standard we must all abide within to meet legal standing in the community. Another standard for some which would be BIBLE standard which clearly states we are all guilty of Sin and so the story goes... All may Chose to live by this standard which is dictacted by thier own ideals . We have the internet forum standard. we have a choice to live within the standards set by our community and our own self. How one choses to convict another has alot to do with which standard of conviction one chooses to use at any given time. both Rascal and WD are correct given their individual standards for truth in this manner. Without a standard of what we determine right and wrong in society we would be the wild wild west in which each individual would govern their own justice and most probably kill one off even more rapidly than we appear to be doing so. You know more than once in my life I have heard "people can say what they like, (and they do) but one has to prove it in a court of law". thank God. no not a perfect system but a system that has worked and the only one we have. VPW or LCM was never arested or even accused of any crime in a court of law. which says the people never had evidence of a crime . Why? welll now. such is the purpose of Grease spot cafe. Those who claim words on an internet forum is enough evidence can go to the local police dept. and give it a go with asking them to press charges even today. but the problem is he is dead. and cant be convicted! well actualy the same token goes for defense he is dead and cant defend his self. just as powerful . kind of a wash isnt it? do I believe people do stuff and never get convicted of a crime? yes. Do I believe people say stuff about others that are untrue and lies? yes. that is why we have a standard.

The cause and effect of a chemical imbalance is very unclear. i have 7 brothers and sisters all have extremely high blood pressure and cholesteral sky high one would think this is a intese family history two had strokes in their forties all on major meds for it... I have none of it NONE. and im a pig I eat what I what when i want and have had a very very stressful life. i believe what my MD says alot of illness is in your mind and how you think about life in gerneral. Im not slapping a depressed person the idea pf treat ment for the mind is a vast mysterious zone it is not exact science by far. the issue is people refuse to change life styles or habits they have had. such as thinking good thoughts etc. I think it cant hurt and may help a great deal.

I think if each individual can not control their own thoughts what happens next? what or who does then? waysider speaks about mental illness being a issue well I think many of these very real problems begin with not being able to redirect their thoughts even as a child never learning how to self calm find peace in choas etc.. no not blaming the parents but the chemical imbalace has to come from some where and it isnt a birth defect as if a person has the inability to manufacotr the chemicals it is the imbalance is shown after most often many years of issues within the mind. the cause and effect is not straight forward if you will. but anywyas. rottie I tried to teach my own children this concept even from infants to learn how to find peace even amoung discomofrt because at the end of the day all we have many times in stress is our own thinking. and it can be learned at any time in life with more work within. meditation is another source of this. to erase the mind of stress and worry is often used as a healer medications are used to help this very process . for me I am at times very overwhelmed with family issues .. and i do not forget but i "let it all go" I do not abandon the folks involved but i do let go of the stress their problems may have on my peace. I noticed with anxiety some can not stop the racing in the head of negative thoughts, this is often from issues that are left undelt with for many years. peole refuse to deal with issues then one day realize they can no longer within serious anxiety. drugs and alcohol help this process of torment last to a point the problems are overwhelming. such is the case with depression etc. but every day stuff i HAVE to let go. what eles is there. If I can do something I try but if the attempt at a solution makes for more worry I stop rethink the situation and then try again when IM calm. all the while in prayer and waiting for the very hope of Christs return.

Do you think it would have been better if they just left them alone? I know they convinced then they must stand for the truth and when all hell broke loose they really couldnt help but I think stf thinks that part is Gods job to save them ..... and consider stf to be in the position twi had put itself before, is it God or is it people then who failed?

STF does offer alot of material for free tho the truth or tradition website is loaded with stuff and also their monthly podcast is free. I see alot of work in them . they do want "prtners" people who will give money for their work, I do not think this wrong or "unbibical " many want to give to a place that feeds their soul . Money is an issue everywhere sometimes I do think John S. should just for once get a real job God knows he has forced everyone eles to do that, but Dan G. has and Jeff etc.. worked and to be honest John S. may not be able to do anything but research and on his own terms. hey it is his own "business", it isnt all bad what they produce does help some people even if it is "one of their own" those stuck thinking that is the only way to have the truth in life. If some break that thought....... what eles is there? for them maybe nothing doesnt work well, and to build a mind anew with churches etc... is not going to work for all. I think they have problems but I also think they fill a real need for some.

I have some thoughts but i do not want to get into a big debate about who is wrong or right. Mary and Jo were in trouble she got pregnate and jo knew he was not the father, so God told him go ahead and marry her when he thought of divorce and be her husband. God didnt tell everyone he told the shepards angels and Mary trusted elizabeth enough to tell her of God's revelation she was gonna have a baby. In the records they speak of Jesus brothers and sisters.. I think for those who didnt believe it was just a "normal" everyday family . the bible doesnt talk about his youth so much just that he was subject to mary and Jo as his parents. many probably assumed jo was "his father" and in a sense he was in that role he provided was married to mom etc. he was his earthly father in every sense of the word. they both had strong faith and ability to obey to carry out what God revealed to them . Many isrealites were alive then and many had the blood line Yet God also needed people who would do as He asked under very intense circumstances.

this says it all.