pond

I guess a defination of a "mothers life" should be defined today, but it isnt, if the "mothers life" is to continue to live in selfish careless choices which include careless sex and no responsibility it is good enough for abortion today. the bible was written in a culture that said and meant SEX without marriage was a Sin . today many forget how to avoid this "choice" all together. I think the fact sex without marriage or adultary within marriage is the larger issue with God. If his children would simply follow his commandments many less abortions would be needed and this would not be such the issue it is, it would most probably come down to just the health of the mom. and very seldom needed. I think the emotional impact is ignored today for the most part it just isnt addressed, and this does alot of harm to people, moms and dads. the issue isnt whether abortion is sin it is the sexual sins that abhorr the Almighty.

I think we wont have a need to know anymore ex.

that case was so high profile in hind sight the media did a awful awful thing to that poor family. but at the time it was so very horrifc and frightening all the kids home for the holidays and people wanted to feel they caught the guy or girl who did it. I feel bad for them now and I do hope they get the person who did it. this guy from out of the country should be in jail just for being creepy enough on his own without a crime. his history is really sick.

Indeed waysider thank you yeah Im aware of the teachings, In fact SFT a spin off of twi just generated a tape this month taking a different approach to the manifestations teaching than the way offered. Here is the thing waysider The media has well documented the issue with the voices of God commanding a person to do horrible deeds for HIM because evil or devil spirts had possessed the person, and they need to help God (the voice of) Yates the woman who drowned her 7 children in the bath tub told the dr. the reason she kill all 7 children was because she the children had devil spirits and God told her she needed to kill them so they would get to heaven. I believe this whole line of thinking is generated by extreme unstable thinking and playing with fire. As far as history before medicine or proper instiutions a person in an episode could and would become dangerous and try to kill their own self and others.. Anyone who protrays such behaviours would be linked to the devil who kills people hence the devil spirt label also behaviours that are really bazzare can and have manifested its self in the thongs of disease hence it was not the regular person personality he/she did not act like that before they are not being themself HENCE they must have gotten a devil spirit . Medical society contributed little or nothing for those who suffered so some explanation was needed to why a person was not acting as their normal self. today hopefully we can attain more satisfactory solution to disease. ya think?

wow medic wife that is very noble and true. people come from such a variety of struggles in life who is one to judge another in the choices they have made you know?

I think I have a residue issue from twi about church. not that they have wrong doctrine or they are filled with idols but I just cant get into the whole pastor speak thing going on.. hard to describe.. like at a testimony I recently went to when she metioned she was good friends with the pastors wife many in the aduience perked up and wanted to hear what she had to say suddenly she was all good (and my friend and I are still yawning). I had a lady actualy introduce herself to me as a relative of the pastor and IM like thinking "um so what?" I think i was suppose to get excited and I didnt. pastor says pastor taught all that type of talk I do not know just gets my skin crawling a bit. i do not want to be a pastor so it isnt like im jealous or feel supreme with all my way teaching and years of bible study.. it is more like I cant feel inferior that is the problem. hard to explain but it is a problem and why I do not join in as fast as I should probably.

I do not understand that reasoning at all this talk of "devil spirits" I am not an advanced class grad so define "devil spirit" for me please. since it is spirit I assume it would be invisable right? this "devil spirit" so how would one know about it? a little voice told them? yeah? tell that to your Dr. and a person may get a med change at that point. honestly. Even if and this is a HUGE if one does believe in spirits controling your mind if they are indeed "controling your mind" and you can not see it or stop it what would it help to know? Sounds like a fear tactic for control to me. This is a part of twi I never ever bought into. I believe in a God that LOVES His people and wishes good health and a good life for all of His creation. I do believe people are spiritual , as well as many other things it is how we were made. I think it is a good thing. When you throw in this "the devil made me do it" idealogy it turns into a tv sitcom show for me . I have heard some heavy pentacostal or charismanic churches believe if your not healthy God doesnt love you, but that is not the mainstream christian position on health.

I think the example of the glasses bag pipes used has great learning. I have to use glasses now and I have gone through three pairs in two years, insurance seems to think I only need a pair every two years, but I break them and it is expensive. So Im trying to figure out a better plan and it boils down to this I hate those glasses I resent being told I must wear them to see.. and so I do not and then I cant see and people look at me strange! and bottom line is I can not function in a manner I want in life. I do not like being helpless who really does? so I got the glasses and I disrespect them. Once I got this processed in my mind I think I can be more careful with them now. Not that I will ever appreciate wearing them but I can now do what I want to do and use them as a tool to get it done. When a person has to begin taking pills to regulate their behaviours or moods I would asume many resentments and anger issue would surface as well. These can and often are displaced on innocent people that may interact with the individual as they struggle with the problem. Maybe some shame in not being as healthy as they assumed they would be in life all sorts of issues are bound to surface. feeling shame or a "less than" attitude about ones self is common without mental illness, so if a person is not stable to begin with emotional issues than the trek would naturaly be more of a struggle and challenge. also who knows what has happened to get to the point of seeking recovery? much pain can be inflicted on a person in the mode of denial and just the seeking of medical attention you trust and feel safe with is very very difficult as free at last has shared.

I look at woman from that generation and Im just sorry. Yeah I think they had choices, but not enough courage to leave. I think they got what they wanted as well. the lifestyle was one of luxury, and I know she enjoyed the lime light as much as he did . It must be a wonderful feeling to have thousands stand up when you enter a stage and clap just because you showed up! I wouldnt know personaly but I know fame has a bite to it that goes both ways.

Stigma A state of disgrace or infamy Infamy A state of extreme dishonor EVil fame or public reputation. The treatment of mood disorders is a new thing and it does not carry any "stigma" today. The stigma may be about the behaviours some have had without medicine to treat the mind to control behaviours. Some enjoy the voices or the manner of life they have without meds and this may cause some to question their judgements. I do not worry about my "reputation" , I do not think most people care what other people think about them. We need to learn to be accoutable to one another to function in life of course, but people with a mental illness are not "evil". We all have heard the media stories or seen the "crazy people " on the street and they are frightening in some of of the actions and lifestyles they live. that may have fed the beast of claiming to be a victim of a "stigma". My friend who has sizophenia and I have a close relative with bi-polar both function very well .I met my friend at work and my nephew just recieved his master degree and has a new car and a good job he has worked throughout his illness , had to to pay for the insurance to pay for the meds, he just went for the try outs for american idol. If a person is very worred about a "stigma" being attached then why wou8ld they share their medical issues with anyone but a trusted source or a professional? If a person is having behaviour issues in life that is the problem , people would judge or set boundaries to protect anyone from getting hurt. I do not think that is unreasonable , although I understand a person who is struggling with illness and behaviours may feel hurt with a type of rejection . with good reason. Some of the diagnosed disorders and DEFINED organic issues within the brain can cause very serious behaviours. The outcome can be dangerous to self and others. being depressed or anxious is a very different situation and today i really do believe more take pills to cope with life than not so any "stigma" is far removed for it. I love bag pipes you are now off all medicines and in complete recovery right? good for you it sounds like you did the work needed to get well and whole.

I think we all know this person ductape . it helps people cope , tis true consequences are a reality in life sooner or later . how we chose to deal with reality is up to the individual , I think more education is needed. of course blood work is not needed for the initial prescription of a mood alternating drug. what could they check hmm? see if your lying about your feelings or complaining of worry and unhappyness and inability to cope or function. a dr.must treat you why would they question what you claim is happening in your head or thoughts? it is needed to prescribe a drug at that point just in case the patient decides to attempt suicide or murder or sue for malpractice saves a lawsuit to give you something it is your life/. I bet some blood work may be needed later after you have taken a very powerful mood alterning chemical for a few months just to check how much damage it is doing to your body and weigh the costs and possibly switch it if it is taking to much of a caculated toll . yeah then they can treat that to . it is their job to fix you right? and they will fix you with any medicine you cry out for plenty of it is available for the taking. no skin off their teeth. big business. people want it and think they need it and dr. MUST comply at this point. or be sued. they will not disagree with your feelings and no amount of "blood work" will prove anything and most do not want the cost or work of life changes that take time, so hey quick fix. everyone is happy and safe. it is what is considered normal.

I agree with that abby my son and I was talking about how some chose to use religoin as a crutch or the name of God as a sense of denial of real life problems. it is very common . very sad as again no one gets better really just denial and numbness in life. IM unclear about your use of the word "weakness".. do you care to explain what you mean?

I also think some refuse to be led because of their involvement in the Way. they are afraid of trusting any group or leader. or they want and this is the more common problem a leader who will give them all the answers so they do not become resposible for their own life. a church minister has to get real and tell them how to manage without the co-dependent kick many had in twi. out of the cult still in the thinking of it types.

well you know it is because they teach wrong doctrine!!!! i say as a joke but THAT is a major problem in many of these folks who have formed what they believe is truth from the bible and will not consider anything eles. John S.( a leader of STF previously CES) just recently sent out a tape saying he struggled with tolerating other christians beliefs.. and is trying hard to overcome this to the good of having fellowship and working well within the body of Christ. he talks about the problem of valuing doctrine over relationships. the name of the tape is"The balance of truth & Love: valuing right doctrine and right relationships" In twi we were instilled with the belief system that the word the word and nothing but the word!!! remember? how can we forget right? well some got a little rabid , and continue ,to be I know it is a common outcome of the association with twi. i do not go to church , because i study on my own for doctrines sake and honestly i find the really churchy members want me to become more involved than i would like at this time. because if i became involved at some point somone would have to admit I do not agree on what may have been taught.. and ya know i just do not have the energy for that type of relationship in my life.. ever again. i do go but I do not "join". haha

my sister says the same thing ex. it is all about the choices we make, sometimes the choices other made for us when we are to young to cope. A mom who was in an abusive relationship has damaged her unborn child while still in the womb with the stress and fear of the circumstance she is caught up in... a child who has to witness a parent being abused or even very unhappy is changed from who he/ she really is these kids grow up to be damaged adults with very little coping skills. the problems start in childhood But I truly believe as adults we can make our life happy as we make our own mind up , as ABE once said. life is not a comfortable thing . it is an illusion to think it isnt icky and sticky and darn right painful. to be happy takes alot of work . I look at it this way, my goal is to get well, grow in wisdom, to learn how to make good choices, to live a quality life. some see life as getting through this day .. or this drama , or this bad choice and chose to be medicated to do it. that is simply the goal no growth very little understanding and certain of little change in life other than a dose or supply. as I said before it is a personal decision on what is best for each. I also believe without a strong faith in God and His risen Son Jesus christ it may be impossible.

many recieving meds today and very powerful meds never even get any blood work done. it goes like this I feel sad worried here take this. next vist i still feel .... no metion your an alcoholic or have a drug history, or the fact somone important to you just died (in which case it is normal to feel sad and grieve) or your being beaten or your in a cult the list is endless. ok try this and this . such is the medical care given today. i praise those willing to seek treatment from a mental health professional on an ongoing base and willing to make the needed changes in life to find peace and happiness, i wish everyone could be happy. I wish everyone had the courage to live healthy . but with the onset of hmo's the fast pace of our life and the money hungry culture we have most just want a quick fix. here take this if it doesnt work and your life still sucks we got plenty more where that came from. as far as the chemical imbalance theory find one study Tbone just one that proves it is all about chemical imbalance. if it was truly a company would make that chemical and run with that money!! but sadly it just isnt. I think many wish it was and is. did you see the link pawtucket gave another theory on why so many many are sad and worried.. and it will continue it is big business. no not a dr. but im not an idiot who buys into the current selling market of get happy quick in our drug dazed culture either.

illness such as schizophrenia are ORGANIC they can today be very easily identified. not to say people are sometimes missed but it very very seldom happens with that disease because it is a very very old disease and it is organic. we have a ready test for such "mental illness" that is conclusive. I wrote this in another post you just didnt see it or something, some disease is still considered mental because the treatment involves professionals from another field but today it is not as much as a problem with the drugs they have to treat it. they seek conseling to deal with the manner soiciety would deal with the problem not so much to change their thinking becuase they can not it is a physical problem that has been around for thousands of years and well well documented. it is the same course of action for every one that has that disease. great strides have come about with that disease. and it is a disease. like being diabetic or a heart condition. if you have an ORGANIC disease such as this it is sometimes given to the mental health professionals because it has to be monitored closely, due to the drugs involved and side effects and the nature of the disease and a regular MD would not know of current treatments as readily. MOOD disorders are not biological or have not yet been proven to be so. yet a md will give out what ever he has a sample of for you to try today if your feeling for it. honestly. what with the rate meds are given today tho i wont doubt someday we will evolve our systems to accomadant the drugs so rampantly used today . and they will indeed find a link. some organic issues within the brain are handled by mental health professionals tis true , the term mental health has a wide umbrella , dealing with the side effects dealing with a stigma or the disease itself is needed to maintain a quality of ife. far more people have this isue than you would think, it is often diagnosed in the teens and they do live a very high quality of life without issue, they are monitored closely. not so with mood disorder such as depression and anxiety your md who took a four hour course in sadness in med school will give you any candy that is new and improved and you most probably may never see a professional mental helath professionl much less be monitored.

the difference is measure. hello !!! we can not measure mood or feelings or what a patient claims to think or worry about. we can measure many of the systems in our body very very well such as the ones you metioned. we give the body a substance that is supply a measured needed ingredient that works with that ORGANIC process that has been proven successful with all and that means each and every course of the issue! different person same course of action.. in the above physical issues. mental health is far more complicated and dealt with in a much different manner. we can exchange many of our parts transplants are a common thing today. ever hear of a feelings or mood transplant? even if we exchange brain cells it does not change how an individual will process their moods. amazing huh? big difference.

and it does not ask your dr. for a measure of the chemical that is suppose to be imbalanced . now ask for the standard. hello it doesnt happen becuase no such thing can be measured, our chemicals which are very few really change constantly depending on how , why or what we are doing in every single capacity of life. drugs change our chemistry this has been measured.. because it is a drug that effects our chemistry... so after you begin a therapy of drugs you will see a change.. hello !! does not mean that the link (from the chemical imbalance to the mood)is conclusive to what a person is feeling or experiencing in mood? because now the pill will hopefully change the mood as well. see? if you believe in the idea of it is all organic and chemical then why not just invent one pill for that chemical???? no see it isnt addressed in such a manner.. they change your mood with the meds.. you feel better.. nothing do with a chemical imbalance originaly but now that you take the pill they can show you it has changed your chemicals.. but not untill .. scary huh?

i do agree with you abby about the better quality of life for those who suffer, esp behavioural changes that allow the disabled to now do more and live much much better. I applaud that and would never want to go back to the ideas and means that had to be used before these drugs where available. I just think today drs. are willing to give out some very serious drugs to save their own risk in practicing medicine. i think they market drugs on the radio and tv and media and it is gettying dangerous to trust all we hear without education.

the only elaboration concerning chemical imbalance(if that is what your referring to) should always come from your medical professional. one question I personaly would ask is for a measurable calculation of what chemical is exactly inhibited . and IF (huge!!) it can medicaly documented such asa measure I would then ask for a schedule and further updates on such . it is a false notion that all the depression and anxiety come from an chemical "imbalance" at all , and the link has NEVER been proven as the cause of such ailments in mental health. do we have chemicals? yep a few . do they become unbalanced? yep we eat like hogs we drink alcohol we abuse our bodies and our mind . why are some people more worried or feel sad than others? same chemicals and without a standard measure ? well and this is exactly how it is presented your guess is as good as mine! so try this pill and maybe and that is a huge maybe you will think you feel better becuase the drug does something to your thinking process, but does the chemical exchange in your body really ever change? um no. not unless you make the changes needed to change your own physical processes which can be done and has been done, but rarely if ever offered today. some mental illness have been long standing and well documented such as sizsophrenic it flows a well established pattern and is be extremely conclusive. other such as mood disorders are a like a pie in the sky.. do treatments work? welll it is a long difficult road and I believe hit and miss for many. which in and of itself proves it has no measure. our culture is realy fixed on medications for behaviour and moods right now it is safer for the medical comunity.. and the patient feels something is being done. but the reality is most times the dr. doesnt even check to see if it is an organic problem for mood disorder.. and no conclusive link has ever been made hence the various types of pills available. the medicine treats the symptoms not the illness, the illness it self is mental so that involved work from the patient and the professional and that takes money and time and effort not in the agenda when so many pharmacys want in for the bidding!!! now there is a link that can be measured for sure! and people just chose not to it is eaiser and safer to do drugs that is our culture today. if your dr. tells you you need to take a pill for your sadness and calls it a chemical imbalance ask him for a measure ,show me the money!!! again to say we are all a little imbalanced we have very sensitive bodies that react to how we think and live no doubt. A conclusive link to mood disorders has never been established. now before those involved in their treatment get the fur all puffy on the tail.. I am not making a judgement call on what a person should do or not or even what is right or wrong it is just the way it is today. funny funny thing what we do know for sure about chemical imbalances is many of the drugs available do INDEED change how our mind and body will function and sadly often for a very long time even after you stop taking it, it is a fact medicine will and do cause a chemical imbalance sometimes permantly. itis up to the idividual but I feel sad becuase people are not being educated about the risks and the other options available to feel better.

true organic issues within the brain can be measured!! l that is a fact. the chemical imbalance crutch is used often and many many and i would say most cases of depression/anxiety is not chemical in nature, nor has there been any proven link. how many get blood tests before given a pill? how many are set on a scedule of this measure? few to say NONE today.. it is just assumed it might be chemical when the link is far far from conclusive anyway. but they will tell you oh it is a chemical imablance which it is your thought are unbalanced .. not a lie.. but measurable ??? doubt it. it is a wild spin and quite handy given the market in medical field today. if a dr. gives a med and the patient goes on to commint suicide or murder another they are not held accountable for a law suit. get it? that is what has changed and very very much so. life is no different today than it has been since the dawn of mankind. this is not a rampant all over america major chemical breakdown of a brain disease.. it is how we handle those who do not function at par in society today that has changed. has our society changed? um yes but stress has alwyas been a reality of life. addictions, greed , hating of self. all these thought processes are being handled with pills and meds now instead of addressing the real issue of why is a person unhappy and what changes are needed to be happy. why? cheaper easier and safer than what has worked from the beginning of time.

oh my kit sober!!!1 how perfect ! ok I will share some of my anger since you wrote that!!! i resent the fact i can not metion or offer prayer for a person who is sad or depresssed or worried about circumstance. oh no not that! esp in a public forum such as work or school it is regarded as a huge social taboo and to be kept in your private life today!!!! much like the talk of mental illness used to be. social norms and legal laws in many mnay arenas (even some churches) have dictated that we do not have to be exposed to the beliefs of another. but yet it is so normal and ok to say oh i went to the dr. he gave me this drug that changes the manner in which I am able to process thought and it is considered as nromal and ok . so the question of stigma goes rather loudly here.. try this experiemnt to find out if it is really as bad as you think. offer prayer or bible study , or talk endlessly about your misery and your medicine and your inability to cope WATCh see which is accepted in our culture. Jesus Christ has always had a "stigma" in our society. not so much with the mental illness today.

my friend lets call her sue has to take medicine to be able to think in a manner that is "normal" by normal I mean in the boundarys we set for health. such as the the little green man talking to you on the counter is NOT a real person!!! or no it is not right to think your next door neighbor is really in truth an under the cover spy plotting to rid the world of all blonde hair men and your the only one who knows!!!!! ok meds help some people granted!!! But here is my thing and this is not all about you cool waters it is a general belief I have and wonder about. If a med is needed to help one seek happiness or to lessen the thoughts of worry and nervousness in social situations in anixiety. is it really truly happiness? is it truly the ability to enjoy soicial situations without fear? Im sorry but if one needs a medicine to cope with life and its issues which are common to all in a form of how we think I do not believe it is real. needed maybe but i still think the original issues need to be addressed and I would hope the consel and education to learn to rewrite your thinking to a more pleasant or agreeable frame would be better than a drug. today it seems just take this and your will be better is the quick solution to complex emotional issues that as another posted may stem from childhood. so it is all mom and dad problem take this and you will be ok seems to be the way medical therepy is managing the many many medicines and drugs available. i would like to seemore intervention in the form of consel and education for healthy mental health instead of these rather toxic drugs poured into so very many. the side effects and costs to the physical body parts that must need digest them including the brain and the liver etc.. can not be a good thing. i know many take this or that becuase the md says here this is a good one!!! so if it works and it is always an if so many different types of anti depressants and anxiety pills on the market try this one or this one here is a new biger better solution and it costs only 300 a month!! they do change a personality and I know it may be a good thing.. but where does this end? I believe without better policing of the current medical marketing we all "should" or "could" be given a pill for any mood or behaviour or thought we feel we can not control. and that to me is frightening and not being or livng in a genuine soiciety of "normal standard of thought.