pond

I think hope is always here. I didnt start the thread you did about this topic. yes that is the problem we agree. I do not defy "the help" I just do not need it . those who do can not see some do not have this problem.. No not a judgement, just truth. It is good you want those who need support in the struggle , to reach out to you, just remember to not get so caught up in a saviour complex you get focused on others and their issues and not your own recovery. that is how addicts run into trouble without realizing, before it is to late. be strong.

I wrote books and books and books the five subject type when i was marked and avoided. I really felt no one understood what happened and no internet and no one my family didnt get it so wrote i did. then i put them away. nearly twenty years later my son found them and read them! o my GOD!!!!! no i didnt reread them he asked me alot of questions tho, I still have them. honestly when i wrote them i felt like my kids should know what happened God almighty what a cult head I was my whole world was about the fact i was no longer in twi! I cant imagine who I was then now. soo i do not write now, no really i have gotten to a point where speaking is better for me to people about me and where I am , going etc. like ex10 said. but at the time writing was very important to me and i do get how it helps one feel better. it is great that you can see God answer your prayers and dreams in writing i think that is fabulous and great.. Im thinking Ophrah used to say to have a thankful journal in which you write 5 things your thankful for that day. that is a great idea. I think folks such as bagpipes has a gift with writing and able to write the thoughts so everyone can be blessed and relate to the words. that is so wonderful ,well my journaling seem stupid next to some of the stuff I read some write that really make a difference for all. I still would write like "I saw johnny in the hall today , I think he likes me". 6th grade stuff. I have no talent for writing, but those who do I am impressed.

i do not drink, only addiction is ciggs here. so unless a person has "been there" and "experienced " it they cant understand, yes addicts live in their own little seperate world apart from the rest.. yes i know that is why they have the problem and why AA is so needed for support. one of the creeds is to "accept the things you can not change" and the wisdom to know the difference. people can not make people stop drinking. attack all you want im happy your trying to get well. no reason to attack me . but the anger issues are obvious, so is the focus on others which if your working the program is part of the problem . the entire wolrd is not struggling with addiction only the one your living in .

So Belle do you know me? Do you have ideas or facts about my life? any othr fantasy thoughts about me you wish to share? or do you just make stuff up and claim to be in the know about me and my life? rather the latter really.

no one makes a person drink in excess. and no one has the ability " to talk you into me not having a problem with alcohol." many roles are played out in the dynamics of addiction.. maybe when you get time you can look up the role of saviour . it is a genuine title from the book from AA. it is a role and a false one that is part of the issue. it is part of the problem and why you may continue to get stuck in addiction. codepency is very much linked to the dynamics of the problem in our culture. the question is... why does your life still revolve around alcohol? even tho your still not drinking? i do not drink but i do not need assurance that im ok or doing something fabulus because i do not . those without the problem just do not give that much "power" to a liquid . See??? that is the difference in an addict and one who is not . now that isnt judgement it is truth. it is so very difficult for those in the issue to move forward and live without alcohol being the constant focus point of your life. As long as it fills your thoughts as much as it is you must you battle it. that is not recovery. it is a steel grip on surviving one more day without drinking. to take the focus off that fact, and say it is about the other guy is a part of the "disease" and if you are following the "program" you know this as a truth. I do hope you get well soon . im ok with the "judgement" greasepot has twi was full of co-dependents and saviour complex personalities.

IM not judging anyone do as you wish. I just do not think it is all that spectacular achievment that a person decides not to be a drunk. it might be a difficult thing.. so is alot of life . and how did the person get to be an alcoholic? bu drinking a choice they made white wash it all you want no one was born an alcoholic no one has died or suffered or made the family suffer by NOT drinking . abuse anything to much and it will hurt you that is why the bible says moderation in all things. why is it alocholics need so much pity for what they chose to do? cancer victims recover and they need to such programs to live a happy life and feel "normal" in society and that is the mental illness part of the alocholism they drink for a reason then when they decide enough is enough and wrecked who may ever be in the path of their own destruction.. it is all about seeking glory for doing the right thing now. nah. no glory in alcohol abuse and no glory in stopping it. the thing is alochol is still a huge part of their life it surrounds their survival , and that is just sad not wonderful . sorry those who arent in the club of making life all about alochol and then if trying to stay sober STILL all about alochol. it is to boring like shellon said.

Some claim it as a disease , disease = money in our culture, it has not been classified as a disease . yes health problems flourish in those who abuse alcohol.. as in many addictions. but addictions have their own clasifications and are treated as a mental health issue not in the physical realm. that is why they have AA medical commuity does not address other than the physical symptoms and health problems from alcohol abuse. i know those who love alcohol feel strongly and those who have a still strong attachment eventho not drinking feel even more empowered to justify addictions and bad choices by blaming whatever.. alcoholics are not victims... violent crime, cancer , car accidents illnes truly beyond our control etc. are victims. IM not a victim of smoking ciggerettes im an addict. it is still a choice. alcoholics make bad choices and have volumes of books and essays telling them all about WHY.. we all know why we all grew up in this culture. addictions are in the mind after the initional withdrawl period with alcohol it is done within a 7 day period .. I smoke ciggerettes, im addicted, nicotine is as strong as alcohol in the body sensation of desire, yet many quit everyday without a entire community of rants about how it is a "special circumstance to be excused". they are the only ones shocked when they realize the truth of addictions.. but some how we all are supose to think they are victims they are in the sense of making and repeating a bad choice and vice in life.. just like smoking or driving drunk or playing with rabid grizzly bears. but because of the cost it has had on their life and those who have loved them and being sober now hurts that reality with the truth of how life went while drinking we all are suppose to say oh im sorry your such a hero NOW? not me. i do congrats those willing to get their life together after years of abuse good for you! hero? no . they have accomplished nothing more than any other person on the face of the earth that has not made the bad choice of drinking to a point of abuse. it isnt special that a person does NOT abuse alcohol, it is normal and healthy. yet that is exactly the twisted logic those in the throngs of alcoholism use to justify one more day of being sober, and that is not exactly a healthy mind set for life.. but everyone has to do and think what they may to get to the next meeting and be with those who get it. I know i do not and yes i have friends who are addicts and go to meetings some every single day, and alot of it is dealing with the issues of life beyond alcohol.. things and situations the rest of society have been doing all of their life.

I have a question. I drank and got drunk when i was young for the peer pressure at times, but since then i never had the desire to get drunk i can have some alcohol but never would I consider losing my ability to think clearly and one or two for the taste a night is all i would do. my sister gets drunk my son gets drunk. my father got drunk. i think they have problems because of it as well although all are really doing well by any of the standards of the day. my question, how does one want to get drunk? why would anyone want to be stupid puke all of what it is? what is the darn attraction to that? i do not get this my son said it is because they are "weak" which i do not get because booze just makes you more stupid and weaker . maybe to forget your problems while your drunk but it adds more the next day probably would anyone chose to drink? alcoholics claim to have no control over alcohol... come on alcohol is only aliquid not a force to be dealt with like people or etc. what they have no control over is their own mind and how they deal with issues in life and the habit of using a drug to numb the awarenes of it. so stop drinking and you still have a person unable to cope or deal ot learn how to do life in a standard that allows a quality of life. I think that is why it is so difficult to stop drinking. because the keys to living successfully are absent.. and a bad habit of being drunk is what they know how to do well. so they do that instead. but i give kudos to those who think they have accomplished something in life by being sober funny tho most of us do it every single of our life without a second thought or wanting respect or admiration for it. It is normal to be sober, no big deal , EXCEPT in the alcoholic circles and fellowships in that society it is an achievment !! i just do not buy it . I do not think the ability to stay sober is an achievment i think it is a sad commentary on the person and how they have managed their life. it is good thing they decide not to be a drunk yep but they get no stars from me. that is why AA is good they get to hang with others who life is a focus of staying sober.. which HELLO is not most people only alcoholics. i know lots of folks who have abused alcohol.. and then they decide to stop whether it is because they have kids get a new job or health or tired of the money it costs they do not go to AA they just live normal like everyone eles in life and chose not to use alcohol to cope or drink, they do not go to AA to find support because it is not neccesary for them to have a group to live life without a booze. so why do some need it then? for support? plenty of sober people in life, so I do not get it really. it isnt like everyone is a alocoholic mostly drinkers hang with drinkers, so find some new friends. it isnt that complicated. it seems to me they take the focus of their life from BOOZE to the whole AA thing and now focus on that .. still not living very well or coping very well ... or functioning in the norms of society without AA. sure if you need constant reassureence that booze is bad bad bad and not good for you anymore.. go but is that really a normal functioning life ? how does it address the reason you did chose to abuse alcohol? o and please do not tell me you where born with the ability to abuse every single person can abuse what ever they chose at any time.

how folks felt about the circumstances that surrounded them while involved with twi, came from many different perspectives. I was also used and lied to and hurt BUT i walked away knowing where I went wrong in my own thinking in letting it happen the way it did. i grew. if i could change what happened I would but alas we can not but we can LEARN and grow up to realize it is not about other people it often times includes the dynamics in our own head. this is where healing happens. we can not change other people,their attitudes or manner of communication.. we can change our own spin on what is being said and how important that information is to our person. to continue to be vengeful and not allowing the understanding to happen in our life festers rage angry feelings and pure hate with which only those carrying such feelings can be harmed. to find peace does not mean consenting to an evil it means to process a happening to the point we can live a life worthy of the happiness and peace and glory God desires for everyone. Rascal just because a poster disagrees with your spin on what happened in the way does NOT mean they are a bully or in any manner attacking you on a personal level. you often read like if it isnt about you then it is an attack and going to harm you. then you get real angry and threaten and ignore how adult is this type of communication?

The bible speaks of providing for your own house. in 1 tim5:8 consider the welfare state of our society , and how it is draining the quality of living for everyone!! Children need more than a house and food to live.. they need spiritual and emotional concern.. with so many it slacks, even if the familiy can provide enough money can they educate and spiritual provide for as many as the sex allows? another consideration.. birth defects rise as a mother ages and to "trust the Lord" is playing with a gun when we now know the facts regarding this issue.. who will care for the disabled when mom is to old to continue on? the state, will finance them then, the brothers and sisters seems like an idea determined to be a burden that is unecesary . The over idealism of the bible is to serve the Lord, to serve the needy and the opressed not to make more of them !

In his letter he says not to blame his accuser.. after years of blaming homosexuals then to have a homosexual speak the truth he has been in denial about all of his adult life! I wonder why the guy did tell? maybe he upped the ante and ted said no. who knows. the wife letter was sad and true, yes we do need a Saviour and im certain forgivness can happen from the Lord. yet it haunts me that "he has struggled with this all his adult life" so can he be like so many in twi and say WEll im forgiven and the past is the past do nt speak of it? well the letter do mean alot at least it is out now. the religous part of these groups freak me out at what cost does a person have to keep up the status as a leader? another thing in twi that would be different they would now divorce i think.

"act" as in "action Kit, the consequences of the behaviour often effect many. Mental illnes , depression often tends to run amoung families I would urge anyone who has to deal with such truama to seek professional conseling for their own helath as well as the loved one suffering.

anger defines who we are, just like any other feeling, what makes you happy, sad, worried? Anger defines who we are. When we love somone and show anger they know who we are what will ".... us off" on the relationship. anger is normal , like any other feeling we can have, it helps us set boundaries with another, I feel angry when you ... helps us understand and have a more intimate relationship with others. it is whan a person can NOT be angry they run into serious problems... depression is hugely linked to being angry. In our culture if a women speaks her opinion and it disagrees with men or the status power structure she is titled an angry women.. which still brings on a stigama of not be alady or proper or somwhow less feminine. that is a cultural bias and a huge reason women have struggled with issues of self esteem and power . In contrast to An angry man is somhow empowered for change . I assume the anger your talking about is without destruction to self or another of course and if that is the case professional help is needed.

As profound as some may think they can be, it is of no use if no one eles understands it . it isnt a communication of ideas it is simply a stoking of a confused ego, that gives nothing at all.

cant see picutre thought i would wait to see if it just me.. twi residue lol

What good is having the truth if it can not serve others? Jesus said the servant is the greastest of all and to be like a child.. etc. a child is eager for new adventures and new horizons and to serve means to help another. may have been the money, keep it to their own and it may have been fear all along fear that they really didnt have the truth after all and then what if the people found out where would the whole party go then? so keep them home. one thing I see and it is difficult to explain it doenst mean the motive was hate or control in an honest sense of being "evil". Love can form itself in such a way no out side influence can be allowed in "the famous hedge of protection" remember? problem is it leaves Jesus christ and the Father out of the equation.. and just doenst work without them.

is it the grid for a subway system in a major city?

I also work in customer service any time you have more than one person involved it is consumer service. the worse is when they lie and the boss believes them. I had a customer tell my manager I said we had three of an item on the phone..(never answered the phone that day!) yep she KNEW it was me then of course she had to drive hundreds of miles for this common item (yeah sure) and i again told her we had them but I couldnt get to them right now!! all a lie all of it. My boss went nuts so I asked her to tell ya what color shirt I had on since she remembered every detail and my voice so well surely she would know that!! she couldnt describe me at all. people lie . and people drink to much in Retail it seemed many came in after the office party or hoe down at the saloon to shop ESP at christmas time when the stores are open much later due to the holidays.. I cant tell you how many times I had to deal with drunk jerks not even knowing what the heck they are doing. I enjoy helping others but sometimes the others are beyond help and just plain idiots or mean looking for someone to take it out on. today if i deal with a situation out fo control I just KNOW it isnt about me they probably just found out their spouse is cheating or soemthing bad happened to them today so i do not take it personal and do the best I can. that hospital story is a reall piece of work, man , I believe it tho.

wow that is a good point Lifted up.

Happy birthday cool waters pop in to chat when you feel well enough until then you will be missed.

I like this post!! had to quote it! See i believe sometimes people get confused between Santa Clause and God that they must be in the same line of work and have the same relationship with people. I think this is how folks become bitter towards the idea of a God.. why does that innocent child have to suffer with cancer and this one doesnt? SEe I do not think Jesus is a "magic man" capable of pointing a wand and fixing all the ills of humanity. I see it as our legacy and the bible details a book of life that is very detailed in the relationships man can have with God with one another and with evil . so we can learn how it is.. and become aware of this aspect of life. or not it isnt as though you will not have a life without God ( that is the part I like about your post) and a very good life with happiness and all what it is. it is a theory that will only be proven when it is said and done and the Saviour will reign in a NEW earth and be KIng of all then finaly Done when He can hand it over to God. the way i look at it if im wrong not much wil change in my life (like yours) but If im right I can be so eager to anticipate the promise of the story as it unfolds!

no one is giving up .suicide is a solitary act. to assume responsibility for anothers action is pure dysfunction. to walk with the idea that anyone is at all guilty of a crime because they love another that s mentaly ill and commints such an act is a horrible ideal and prevents or helps no one. yet it does ruin many, and bring them to a place of depression, anger and anxiety in life which is how people get despondent and capable of behaving in such a manner that hurts everyone involved. for a life time.

for those who think it may be just my imagination.. the "God" factor. could be, but after seeing plenty of "true love marriages" and love gone bad in real life for many, it cant be any different or worse than that can it?

I do not judge bow tie. the idea that this issue is one of what another can do is important bow tie. I read your post bow as one who has to control circumstance beyond what is reasonable, and I get why with the devastation of your hstory. and the pain you carry. the title of this thread sadness that keeps giving sadness. you sound like his mom so anxious to fix all of the trouble .. stretching and tormented. yes it is concern . of course all is being done. yes everything has been done for YEARS. the story behind this state of mind is complex as is many who reach a state of despair... but peace in a situation comes with the realization, that ultimelty we do not control anothers thought or process of life bow tie. if one choses to commint this act whether it be in a fleeing moment of panick or a long trial of mental illness it is their ACT and NO one could prevent or stop it from happening. ever. it was their choice at the moment and it is time to realize that. You could NOT have helped your mom she struggled for years. a car accident in which people are killed.. life has many such events. The people left behind in disrepair should heal with the knowledge it is NOT about what they did or didnt do. like any death. the circumstance may feel more painful , for some , that can not let go of the fact people behave badly and make wrong choices alot in life , and those who love them can do only what they can to either prevent or stop the result. do i think it can be an attention getting ploy at times? yes and not to be disregarded he has his "professionals" this guy like to focus on this is there other mental issues involved? most certainly. not to say he can be playing around and it could happen that is why his mom gets so upset but at some point all the issues need to be addressed and those who care about him need to move forward and stop the focus on this . again you do not know the history or the manipulations this man has done and no he doesnt deserve nor does anyone want him to succeed.. but for me and my family he isnt allowed to destroy and frighten us to the point we become so anxious all about his problems and threats of death we can not be happy our own self.

to watch a person suffer is very difficult , depression is an illness that can and does hurt everyone. A sudden death of any sorts is difficult to overcome. those left behind struggle , some of this is Anger to the ninth degree, unresolved anger is the largest indicator of depression. people think angry feelings are normal in males esp. .. women they call moody or "going through meno" think again it may very well be depression blown off as feelings they should be able to control . drs. often do not adress this . because they function just fine! just physical ailment "normal" under the circumstance (job loss, or other event) think again. we also think well they got the meds it will be better now. depression is a horrid disease and meds are not a cure all . sucicide happens when a person is being "treated". i have a family member that speaks of it often, a young adult, and after years we are tired of hearing it .. yes he is getting consel amass and meds amass. my son said if he never hears from him again it wont be soon enough. it is draining. so what do we do? we just try. but if he does it he does i can not allow his choices to effect my life to the point Im unable to be happy. he has nearly destroyed his mom with it over and over.