pond

This is what I learned in twi and then the offshoot.. christian people want to be kind and can be fooled by coniving men and women who know how to make a few dollars off their willingness to serve. and the thing is one is never really where they think they are "spiritauly because if all eles fails they will say well i have done this written that and been in the minstry for soo many years. Jesus doesnt look at it that way he died for all of us and truly looks on our heart of love towards one another , that is why this stuff hurts. trying to please men is a fools game , but not for nothing money can be had in it. the comment will be IM bitter, maybe so, better to be called a name by those with their hand out in the name of a free God than to be the one running with the cash and answer to a free risen Christ some day.

Jesus says to love one another he commands it. it is important to realize the one anothering part. if you feel the love then stay and hang for a while and give and receive. share and have "fellowship". it is when folks do NOT feel the love and stay i worry about the situation. God does not want his children unhappy or miserable or worshipping HIM under any type of force or worry or threat, for me when I see that happening it really voids the freedom Christ bought with his very life.

how much does that cost? another seminar to learn and pay for and how many meetings to we travel to for this washing? or to learn from them how to do it properly for another? they will tell ya that. I say and jesus I believe will also say if you want to serve come as a little child, who can not read the new book or the new tape series or isnt a partner or travels across the nation to meet the right guy or gal who has the answer.

im a people person and I work a human service type job, which means when people make mistakes people get hurt. tonite another employee said to me I have made alot of mistakes lately. it weighs on the head when you screw up and another suffers. but then sometimes I look at it like this we are in the game man, we are giving it a go we are all just trying mistakes and all we are all just trying to help. at my job the stress is so dam high with staff issues and firings and huge mistakes.. WELL we have gotten to a point most of us say out loud alot of stuff like hey now look at that I just scrtewed that up and NOW... and it is serious stuff people are our thing. so we move on and try not to beat one another up and continue to care. it is when no one cares that the love and service will stop. NOT when mistakes are made. we do not lose when we error we lose when we stop trying.

perhaps they shouldnt play victim unless it is well suported by those who do not listen to anything they do not want to hear. Facts? facts is John S. claimed to have been attacked by this VERY SAME Spirit in a woman while in twi and she was able to trick him ...blah blah blah he cheated on his wife because of this spirt. so said he. the fact is he says this on a tape in which at the time sounded and still is sounding like a plea for forgivness and understanding of having the very same problem he wrote a paper on claiming it is wrong. seems to still be working on some. you know I do not judge him but when he can not metion his children I want to know why when in FACT every other person involed in the profiles of their ministry gushes about theirs as a important part of their life. he can not tho. WHY? and why is this sex and scripture such a wonder of teachings for him? when he has struggled with that very sin in his own life so deeply and also been divorced? m do not sugar coat it either. I think it is for appearance sake. and you know what he doesnt have to tell people his life story , i know i do not share mine, but when they want people to believe they have some super gloss spiritual inside scoop on how to be a worshiper of God and all truth then begin at home in your own testimony of at least being honest with who you are. I know people need to think these men do not sin and if the do well gee golly by god they had a super good reason so it just doesnt count as long as you never ever metion it. they are leaders and not to be picked apart but h@ll yeah everyone eles is open field of what they think must have gone wrong . spit here. now go ahead and do the famous manuver of insulting me and my life and testimony so the circle wont be broken. and those who really deserve RESPECT and HONOR wont play by the same rules as everyone that has to deal with them. because maybe just maybe God will love you more to now!! yeah i know the way it is done im just sick of it.

it is rebelion and strife it causes that knit the hearts together in a cult, and the idea they have the only truth that they survive on, just like twi.

right and I resent the fact one knows my devils and I do not ! they know for what reason exactly? to call me names about spirits i do not even know I have or met or anything??? not friendly or loving . not nice. I think they are just ....ed because my spirits agrue with theirs so they call me a dumb poopy head and win the war on spirits!!! just the facts mame just the fact. that line of thinking is a dam twillant zone ordeal!!!

All of the children are grown so is Marks and Karens and Dans and John l. an they have grands in fact and speak of them (we are all older now) and they were not toddlers hello but they were yOUNG to the fact he has been married TEN years hello do the math did he marry again the day after the divorce? they were under age still livng at home by far. it is his business just odd why everyone eles metions their kids and grand kids but he doesnt. it probably does have alot to do with the fact they do NOT want anything to do with what he is doing!!! I agree and it speaks volumes on his life of ruins. just do not metion it that is all because you have the inside poop. give me a break. That profile has been written like that since they put the site up. John S. at one time counted his step or something in as his own haha probably changed by now!!!

John S. has admitted to cheating on his then wife while involved in twi. o do not wet yourself... WHILE he was working on the study of adultry!!! guess he had to try it to see if it really was sin or not. for real!!! now he asked for forgivness and all and you know has a new life and a new wife all good now!! and he did write the paper saying it was wrong and all you know he knows it wasnt right now you know caught up in twi and all.. and no one wants to believe it because he really is a master of hush hush good fit with john L who well just say isnt. this is what he said on a tape I didnt make this up. something about a young girl of course she had spirts that connived him and boo hoo he subcummed poor john S. this happened in his office while on staff at twi. he talked about it on a tape generated by CES. most fell for that line of crap then as well and here it is used again and again. his books on sex and scripture and all how could he ??haha do not fool me. look they do have a right to live life i just want to know why if they want to come off as super gloss christians why in hell they omit a ton of FACTS in their own life while digging others for thiers. im sick of this

my opinion is a huge if it is even addressed it will be a spin like you wont realize. on the website it has profiles look at JOHN S. says he is married to his current wife no metion of his ex or his FOUR children from that marriage. all the rest of the folks metion their kids but not JOHN S, hmmm isnt that wierd or a cover up? they do not it known that he also has been divorced and left a wife with four small kids. or that his current wife is #2, why would somone not metion his kids? all the rest of them do and grand kids even. what is up with that??? my money is on it was a wicked divorce and the ex wife says if you so much as metion these kids i will sue you for all it is worth and you will never see them again . or that has already happened. we just do not know do we? huge red flag if you ask me. nope not all that sweet and loving in christian land with that so put a spin on it and jsut do not metion THAT again. for this new crisis and drama that surrounds them all like the bad flu season will be like at our current meeting we elected a new president due to Gods vision for our ministry we are excited and thrilled at this and look forward to all the exciting events coming in the year ... blah blah blah . ] come on do you really think they will say we have had in fighting for many months we call one another names we are divided about important issues and we are angry so we decided to fire someone to try to keep control of the situation for a minute longer?

ok I wondered this same thing when I was in twi. I will ask and for all you way corps and advanced class gurus please answer it if you can. What good does it do to know about devil spirits ? so now you got a person labeled and God doesnt love them type of thinking.. where does this really serve anyone? the only thing i can understand is to isolate that person as a bad bad creation of God. I mean so what does this really mean God doesnt love them and why would God TELL anyone about the devil spirits without a remedy included? to keep you safe? ok ok that may apply but only as a personal revelation of caution like a parent to a child. this garbage about so and so has this devil and that demon I sincerly ask so now what does that mean exactly? stop loving them? I do NOT believe this is Gods will at all because Jesus Christ commands we love one another and not just if we are perfect people that all get along. see even if demons do have some say so in this world what bother is it to those who follow christ He has surely defeated any demon . and seriously how does anyone know it isnt a demon telling them it is a demon to isolatre and hurt one of Gods beloved? I never got this whole concept. please answer and tell me what good does it to know about devils and demons? also what is this jeezebel thing you got going? an attack against KG? you do the same thing she is doing!! You claim to be some how enlightened about what she thinks and how it is a devil spirit that is causing all this trouble as well. how she is causing division and YET what good does it do to call KG a jezebel (i assume that is the name of a devil spirit you claim she has) YOU DO and speak the same as them but of course your right because you have the proof ! as they also claim to have this proof of knowing who and what devils a person is operating. how ridiculas this really really is. it just gets more drama and hysterical. your in the same darn camp. it just happens in this moment your tent is a popular one , you have issue with what KG is doing yet you are doing the EXACT same thing to her as you claim she has done to E. you so enlightened about cults haha and yet you sly in with the same darn manuvers you claim is so very wrong!!! lol

feminism? I recall John Lynn and I will quote said "militant feminism is wrong" , on a tape and my ears perked up as I have been single lady in twi and ces. I again didnt have a clue what he was saying in a type of code word, for ears to hear . I think has been a issue and richard is right on. KG taught at a fellowship I attended, and when a person (not a regular at the fellowship asked her a question, she said and again I quote "all questions have to be answered by my husband". My teen daughter was there she directly looked at me being raised by well me as a single mom, with no husband to direct any questions to, she looked at me like??? how does one do a teaching then not be able to answer to it? I think the notion of feminism is twisted in these groups, i DO think many of the woman are given lip service to be able to serve as long as they still obeyand serve the man ya know on the down low behind closed doors. see for me feminism is always an inside job, like leadership either one has the ability to be able to make sound chices for their life or they do not. being married has little to do with the power of the female voice. some of the strongest women I know who have effected change in policy also are married . confidence is difficult to keep in a marriage that struggles with power plays within itself. KG children are growing up the focus is no longer the kids and family.. mark is getting a education and meeting people and traveling and living a full life. they didnt offer KG the education did they? and her life is now becoming void of the "house to rule" I believe she has focused on the ministry because she has nothing eles, besides a hubby who is determined to succeeded in many avenues, and allowed to do so where she has not been able to. Also the drama of these men and the ruin of the life they have led has surrounded KG, how sad for her I know John Lynn used her for a shoulder many times and she played the good mom and wife to all of them through John S and John L divorce and marks aspirations. she may be used up when did KG come first? but make no mistake they allowed her to think she was as imprtant as the rest while they controlled the money where they live and how things really went. middle age does this to people . it is a transition, she wont leave Mark they have to much pride to do that. im certain it is difficult to wake up one day and say crap what have i really done but make sure men have succeeded and been ok all my life? it does cause angry feeling that are deep and profound and with little skill to compete in the world without them it feels like a trap. so find others who will play the game of denial in misery all the while holding a tight grip on the only life that has been comfortable for you. the idea of" bloom where your planted" the theme of one of their womans get together and of itself says change is way to dangerous for them. i have been judged for not being married, by ladies like KG, they do not get me anymore than I get them . both the single life and being married is one thing , to be a person capable of change and reform and power one must have the confidence from your own self, with or without a hubby to agree or not. this fact is lacking in CES, because bottom line is these men are control freaks always have been always will be. The woman attached to them like the power and fame, but the price may be a little to high at times .

it just hit me that this is the excuse some may use to not interact with grease spot and questions presented here. WEll I have looked and i have one thing to say about that "perception" WHERE DO THEY WRITE ABOUT THIS STUFF ON THEIR WEBSITE? see what i mean? I mean i get they can twist this and say well being we use secret names on the internet we are not bible doing THEN how is just pretending and hoping it goes no further as long as we only metion it to those we must HONEST? or forth coming of truth in any way? get it? am I the only one?

Dooj speaks on being spiritual perceptive people may feel when talking abut another. I guess i may be a bit more cynical and although it may be the case in some circumstances, I think without claiming to know anyones motives sometimes people want to "be like god" and one up the other. like I must be ok, listen to how messed up this person is... and to throw in God told me so is just just horrid. it takes the focus off your own insecurities and inability to deal with what life may be bringing your own self at the time. in a sense it comforts people to know someone eles has problems. kind of like when children yet but billy did this... it is common in addicts and codependents who can NOT overcome the overwhelming urge to fall into a destructive pattern and need an excuse why it isnt their own choice or doing. "christians" are often taught to "serve" but where is the line between serving and hurting I feel it often gets blurred and allows codepency to flourish and burn out to become the mainstay. when one does for another esp when it has the motive of "fixing them" they do not love in fact the love stops all together. it becomes an agenda . I actualy lost a job I quit a job when a manager would call certain employees into the office or corner and say " so and so said he/she feels this way about you" to generate a conversation of defense,then she would go to the other person and say so and so said this about you. it made for so much hurt feeling.. finaly i said to her one day as she claimed to have this inside knowledge she had to confront i said well i will just go ask him , she slapped me. yep she did . i couldnt believe it that type of emotion was not from the very simple expalination of what was her game at the job. she was so angry at her own life at the death of her mom ather marriage, kids, whatever to keep all this talk going was her only relief and comfort. when threatend to have it all stop,the attention on her, the focus of others and their life , she lost her mind and attacked. ithink it is common, anyways.. I also try to deal with the individual, and I have lost relationships from others who think Im the one back stabbing their confidence. it is about to the quality of relationships I want in my life now and im certain anyone who is talking crap and starts it with God told me or dont say anything but.. i say no stop im not willing to hold confidence from a third person about someone i care about. so sometimes they do stop talking to me. and that is ok with me.

I look back at the crap I took back then. I had three children under the ages of five. I was a single mom. I worked full time . so when the BC wife got pregnate, i went over to her apartment and cleaned her bathrooms because they chemicals used made her ill. she didnt work outside the home, and had two teenagers at home who did nothing. i tell ya I have changed. i wont do it today for anyone i also believe in paying somone to do it. then one night they came over to my apartment and got critical becauase i had laudry out in the babys room not put away. i used to have to go to the laudramat at midnight with all three kids ! i have no doubt how i got sucked into a cult .

yeah me to. But as somone said they do NOT like this site, so some will not come here or believe any of this but it is good it is here. I mean why do you think we as ex twi folks still want or need to know what this stuff is all about? what or why are so many ex twi atracted to the spin offs? or news of them? I mean at times i think im still stuck and I cant get out . i mean we do not think about a lot of things we "did' back ears ago or seek other similar types of experience why this?

Im just discussing here i have no answers. lots of questions. why is this so difficult why is this so difficult? I have little problem going to a church and finding issue and being critical, easy to be done. no need to understand why where and all of the emotions thishas dragged out. but some how i have this desire to know what the heck is going on with stf. it MUST be a hang over cult thing. like i still owe them some type of allegience even if it isin my mind only. what say you? WHY do we obsess a tad to much over this particular outfit?

Im not afraid. they tend to put spin on everything they write, anyways. The only reason i check in here is because greasespot at least addresses the concerns. look on the 3 websites these guys have do you see anything about the hoopla? and it is serious stuff firing the president etc... but yet ignorance is bliss as far as they are concerned i feel they will never give out any information. or the spin and shame involved in just asking about a "rumor" shuts most "meek and humble" people up. shame on you for the asking about a "rumor". then when you say but but it seems to have been true.... well who are you gonna believe the great leaders who know God and teach the truth.. or a web site full of gossip and back biting??? hmmm your choice shame on you for meddling in a personal business and life of them and bam they will get in your face with your life and how God must feel spin spin and more spin. no intimacy most of the crowd who would dare question them are rank unbelieving believers anyways... and if you fall in line now hey YOU ONE OF US STILLL!!! no fear is one thing as jal wears as a baner of his pride. no real love or concern is right with that ideal when you can only address those who agree or can be intimidated to do so without answers to the pesky questions. kudos to grease spot

This the type of division twi founded in the believing all who is not for us is against us and the whole "unbeliever" name calling. how does anyone know if a person is called of God? I do not . the whole sit thing is wrong, no proof of anything. but how fast to discount anyone who isnt "of their group" we are a racist society . christ formed a body of believers how inheck did it get so small to be only the certain group like ces or stf? or twi? well they think maybe they are born again but God likes us better! so we have a golden inroad to a better God than them , it is arrogance and wrong. and at this point getting a little ridiculas isnt it?

God knows His children, the hairs are numbered by him! All knees will bow to christ! All will come before the judgement. I do believe once a person confeses Jesus as LORD and believes God raised him from the dead he is saved from death eternal . Some do deny the christ never consider the possibility of God. They will die and never meet the new world kingdom, but and yet still answer to OUR Saviour on the day of judgement and be told just why. Some change their thinking but the spirit has still taken ahold of their life. how Christ will deal with them in the kingdom and i do believe they will belong but with a price, as is today for wrong thinking and living is His job. It is not a secret folks without the spirit will be in the kingdom.. they will have babies and live out a natural life amoung the believers and worshippers of the king of KING... they will be with us yet not believing in what it is.. UNTILL th

If i went to work and they told me four out of five wanted me to quit, including the founding father of the job. hello in the real world most would spiff up the old resume' right? this is all still the fantasy world we and yes i include me it is hard to shake , live in at times. hello the first question i ask is what does happen in the world everyone never involved in a cult do? he would be gone. but in our never ending world of bible world and fantasy we pull out these terms and conditions that apply only to those who understand this bazaaro thinking. of course we are "not of the world" a bible verse used in this context im sure... um where does this life of the fantasy end?

He took the hit when he pardoned Nixon over the water gate scandal. many felt he was appointed with the understanding he would help out, and in a sense he did, he pardoned him. left a sour taste for his leadership and downed his rating considerably.

Start a mall business. take a course at the local college, some cities will sponsor for the start up, learn how to market and then go. or hire a marketing firm .

Im not gleeful, what goes around comes around tho. hey this is attractive to me maybe because it has been a long trip in this world of twi and ces. and yes i do wonder why and what would have been different if i had not gone to the gazebo that day a ong time ago. anyway. I want to read Marks letter about why he cant step down. probably didnt give permission to post it on the internet. John Lynn's thing is "No fear" Well what are you afraid of John? not being able to control the conversaion and having to hear negatives about something ? sounds like fear to me.

I do NOT think John S "allowed these things to go on", he activily promoted it and went for it his own self. they have been influeneced by others , and john has his own mind. as far as the bible is concerned he does have an impressive knowledge, like learning a different lauguage.. one can be very educated and fluent in the dynamics of the speech, But never be a country man or have an accent. money was to be had. and i did speak up i walked out of the fellowship when they began that PP stuff and never went back, again just like twi I had no idea how wide spread it was or how many were abused. i think they have problems and like the rest of the world . will be forced to deal or not to deal. why do we ex twi ers think it cant happen to us? we think we are to educated to holy to bible filled to beyond and with the right God to consider it possible. fooled again, Jesus is the christ of mankind , and no other God goes beofre Him etc. people like these leaders get so filled up with knowledge they puff up and have no relationship with HIM who IS the one and only begotten .