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no one has to do anything. if you drink it you may suffer. what does God have to do with that ? if your speaking of ignorance God indeed asks us not to be about matters etc..so it reads as tho wisdom is a good thing and would help .

We are to grow up to Christ as the standard, not stay babys, learn who God is , learn to trust and obey and worship him. growing and changing and listening is the major theme in the bible , and yes i think we suffer because we are sinners, not because God our creator wishes we would . we suffer because we make errors in our learning , we suffer because this is only a temporary place to be and until Jesus christ destroys deathetc the plan is a kingdom in the future not now. the bible is one bloody choas book of suffering untill it is all said and done then the promise is a better place without suffering.

one of my children just got into a car accident , totaled the car baby was frightened and bumped mom is still in pain and they have no way to get to work and babysitter etc. insurance company is messing around taking time helping them. this was a crisis and do you know what she said to me today on the phone? we will take one day at a time everything we need is right here, meaning they are all safe and together . youknow Im convinced the leader in ces and stf are thriving on drama . it isnt a crisies people hate the people they work with every single day, people get fired every day and divorced but somhow because they are linked to twi again this must be special and earth shaking news that will shake the universe. give me a break . my thirty pound cat thinks when his dish has less than three kibbles in it is a crisis to, they have no idea what REAL life is like.

they do not play with the same rules the rest of society does. most people realize if you tell the guy who started the company your working for now his wife has spiders coming out of her nose realize they may be in the unemp0loyment line. not in bazzaro world of cults no they consider it and divorce their wife then rally troops and rethink it and then go through all these safe checks to minamize damage then FIRE you. the idea of we are not of the world fits them when they twist logical living beyond normal standards to suit them. But when it comes down to who is going to lose then hell yeah go to court of america and sue those crazy birds you consider fellows. it is so darn strange.

Is minding other people life, and their own business "doing something"? WHY is it with these folks it is always always always about what the other guy/girl is doing or not doing? I think a life focused on being the best you can be is kinder and more and loving and more peaceful and dare I say more Godly than living a life full of controversy and strife and trouble and slander and busy bodyness, is just better. It seems some forget they get PAID real cash and real nice lifestyle , all their kids go to college, they hardly ever worry about what their boss may be critical about or lose their job! (well till now) they work and travel when they chose they go to school, the motive is never clear other than saving the other guy from hell and damation, while collecting the real time reward now. to me it seems unormal and a little twisted to have them live in that world "doing" and me here living like the rest of america and being accussed of not enough. fact is they truly believe God loves them more than everyday folks, today and in the future they are just better people that God honors more does more for, and LOVES more. it is a lie. ALL Sin, and God loves us ALL. hello grace (not just YOU screwed up) grace is unconditional if you attneded the last meeting or wrote a new book. the spin is yes BUT we did this and that so we understand it to be that we will get more from that same God. um NO NO NO

i have heard this before this still missing wanting to smoke , the desire. my mom 7 years after quitting would sniff when i smoked in her house and sniff with a purpose. she said she still missed it.. if this is the case I cant do it I cant quite. the only reason I smoke is because im addicted to it. and to think the craving doesnt go away um NO Im not strong enough at all.

you know being "defamed" isnt so bad. happens to me alot actualy. hapeened to Jesus Christ alot. I guess it has alot to do with how much stock one puts into the idea of Fame , or being famous. for me not so much , so when, as the bible says, i am not welcomed i brush the dust off my shoes and move on to the next who will welcome me. what the heck? i bet this is about MONEY!!!!! maybe?????? could be??? now that is important !!!

you think it should have been worked out in the board meeting BEFORE sharing with the public. sounds elitist the fact they openly divulged information and it makes you aghast! sounds like elitism to me . I get my impession from what you wrote , im glad you recognized the error in the picture about spiders comment, that was honest when push comes to shove. forced to defend one self is a victims mentality and i really do not think this web site is doing any more than giving another side of the story... now answering questions about what they have done or said NOW THAT may be the real problem ya think? and your right they can not be forced to do that either can they?

This term "character" you use is subjective isnt it ex10? Each trait one assigns to another is frankly a perspective from where they are with that person at that ime. for example the second wife may think her man is golden while the first wife may have some different facts of the "Character" of the same man! At one time John Lynn thought Mark and Karens employment at his ministry was a very good thing , today right after he gets sued from these loved and trusted friends , the character of those same people will be different in his perspective. character is indeed subjective to opinion of those assigning the judgement at the time. so Knowledge is more practical in serving, if we know a person is a thief, has been in the past, and they move and suddenly, homes are being robbed , we Do go with the knowledge of his/her behaviours.. Yet he/she was such a nice guy , always sweet and wiling to help anyone in the neighborhood. Sexual preditors of children often become "pillars of the community" encased in causes of good for children and the good will of the enitre community. family men, and often determined above any critical assessment because of their "character", and servant attitude towards others. how many times are we shocked at the news of some horrid crimes from a family member or a nighbor or a co-worker when we thought he was such a great girl or guy and never would have thought he was capable of such crimes or behaviours? character is subjective ex10, and at what point to do cease "people pleasing" with this attitude and become honest , and be willing to listen to the facts that people have knowledge of ? spin and con is easy to do and the ploy of being victim or a misunderstanding has a long standing position of allowing denial of what isnt popular to hear, from those who have knowledge that doesnt fit in with your person assessment of a person "character".

the biggest influence in a childs life is his parents and how they lived this is a learned life style do some escape? yeah maybe they met a person who helped them UNLEARN the lifestyle but to do such one has to out of the issues in their own life. no one who has any degree of success lives or abides within the walls of a inner city areana UNless they are also attached to the life style in some way. this is EXACTLY why we desegrated the schools across america. exactly and why it is a inner city problem that is difficult to overcome or break out of. to leave your family and neighborhood is difficult to live in a world of success when every thing you ahve known is a mess is asking alot of anyone and RARELY done. the cycle will continue for many.

YOUR the one unclear the answer is right in my post. move away from the nighborhood that holds these values . possibly one that doesnt take the welfare check or the drive to pick up the drugs you want is farther and out of the "bus line">

holy crap! he is very angry one might assume. wow JOHN LYNN brough him into this group! it is kind of funny tho as much as I do not like seeing people hurt this is im sorry giggle giggle ha ha good luck with the middle age crisis oh my g haha Im osrry re4ally it shouldnt be funny hahha I want it to stop make it stop . haha

well maybe not living in a crime ridden gang infested poverty stricken neighborhood. o do not go there either cool waters... drugs and alcohol abuse is a universal problem, money or not BUT hopelessness is a learned lifestyle from poverty and decaying neighborhood. +++++

In post #59 Cool water response to Dot is in purple, her very first remark is: "I am glad you have that option in life" this greatly implies a lack of options for those who chose to live in gang infested areas . no freedom to chose another place, a prison , and a trap. which I believe is truth. and sad. and desperate . and not healthy . and a fact of life for you. and you know what eles? Im glad IM not one of them who has no options, other than to live like you describe. Im not here to change other people chices or options, in fact I know I cant not, other than to live my own life in safety and concern for my neighbors, and that is always the OPTION I will chose to live within. and it is a good thing.

this whole trinity subject is just hysterical! CES also pray to jesus . where in the line in all this doctrine right and wrong? depends on how you spin it it isnt a balck and white thing and I believe only God decides what is an idol in anyones life. ya know on a scale if it or is Jesus christ or a VPW type guy i would take my chances just on the bible alone i do not see any vpw written about or curious / controversal question on how to worhship him.

I agree. and that is why it is so very difficult to be free of this whole lifestyle involved in this stuff for me. I often wonder who I would have been if i had not become so very influenced at one time, in high school i smoked pot , then when i grew up some and took on responsibilities of a grown up I just stopped, plenty of folks did keep smoking pot and I had no problem not seeking them out or wondering what they were doing now , but they did influence me at one time. Yet this cult like reading and the tapes and the leaders are much different to shake , mentaly and emotionly it is a deeper thing. why? because the convincing it was all about God and his will mixed in the mess takes it off the balance doesnt it? strange life indeed.

In America we are allowed to speak an opinion! defamation is only the facts involved in a situation. if you have dark hair and i say I think it looks like it is yellow or white it is my opinion, even if you disagree and I have a right to say it. If i think your interperation of a dream is crazy it is my opinion and not defamation. If I say Most of the world thinks your interperation of a dream is crazy it is my opinion and again legal. If I say 60% of the population thinks the dream is crazy I better be heading to court to prove the fact I just claimed as truth . STF is a business and im certain they have a business contract and employee handbook and any dispute would be handled in the labor laws of that state. as far as OPINION crap Mark I say everyone has one and that is why we are America!

Who you are is more important than what you know well that is interesting , consider: what you know has alot to do with who you are. that is a fact of life. also this knowing of ones self is a form of self actualization which is hardly ever realialized for most individuals. reality is often a perspective given formed by again what we know as truth. we become who we are.. we change often throughout a life time. and why? because of what "we Know" or in the least what we think we know for that time of life. no one is born who they are, people BECOME who they are because of what they know about life. I am guessing he is talking about bible facts and the type of life ones lives... Well to that I say.. honesty is often in the eye of who is spinning for what purpose. how many people do I know who hold the bible as a standard for life and then we find out on the sly the little known lifestyle or fact that completely blows THAT appearance out of the water? plenty. over and voer again, and it seems the bible is used as a coverup to something that they may not want anyone to know about. so you can KNOW the bible verses plenty and preach them till the cows come home doesnt mean in the very least that has anything to do with how you behave. and truly how we behave is who we are . even if you never admit it.

I have not been deleted or whatever they do to posts here, so I cant say how it feels , but maybe Im thinking they gave you a reason and you share your pain and hurt about being "moderated" (this is the internet eveerything is moderated by everyone! ) but not the reason why you got snipped. maybe if you share why (but maybe you cant without it geting snipped i do nt know) I can understand better. tell me without the reason you got moderated. like i talked about boys in a girls forum or something .

your killing me EX! they say one thing and do another, because they have thr power to understand the situation with the revelation from God being super duper no one eles has it !! so they do not have to anywyas so there. they write well the doing of all this well that is what they write about so OTHER folks will know.

I got involved in twi in my early twenties, Im past middle age now. All of my life I also have been involved with either twi or its downfal or the offshoots and its drama. ALL of my life. what a waste i often think . and it hurts. But i wont deny truth inmy own life anymore. truth as I see it for real. without talking my self into what must be because another put a spin it. i often wonder what my life could have would have been with the bible verses tapes and leaders surrounding nearly every choice. but i can only wonder. maybe wish once in a while. but that has been my life. so there it is. do not tell me I do not know the pain and misery they may be feeling now, dear God have mercy on all of us because truly we know not what we do . I never dreamed my life would have been surrounded by this stuff and i look at "normal" people, who never took pfal and now say wow how did you live why didnt I manage? it isnt about a loss it is an ENTIRE life of drama , and "stuff" that maybe those here at GS can get. why i do not know. I just know it has been my life. and the rest of the world is different and doesnt understand. not that I have the truth, just why in hell has been the search for it been the focus for so dam long?

On the news they speak of the nearby city as "having a culture of violence", we have more murder than NYC per capita. it is bad here. Most are from NYC and have been lets say replaced to a new area. The cross fire kills many children every year. Most families do not allow the kids to go outside. the city is nearly completly segreated, from the surrounding towns, with most minorities living within the borders of the city. Is this racist? yep but it is also the facts. poverty more than skin color has to do with the gang work, one of our white bread suburban senators had his daughter killed while she traveled one night into the wrong neighborhood(to buy drugs has always been the question) and he made his platform for the office on her death. what does he really know about why these groups form and become so powerful? nothing other than they killed his child and now he has the power to make a change but cant. Im not racist but i wont live in the city it is to dangerous and the city leaders say it has a culture of violence so why would I ? sure I believe we live in a racist country , and the problems that com about becuase of this fact are very real.

I know bird have to work hard everyday to get their needs met, they have to find food build a home raise the young lots of things. this isnt about NOT working or NOT taking care of yourself in fact just the opposite in that we must work and feed ourself with food we made etc.. but I think God is saying while doing what you need to live like eat and make a home and raise children and work on life do not worry about how it happens just do it. and He will provide . for me He always has.

this self righteous thing is bothering me. Im righteous, you know God says I am, and i also feel good about what I do and who I am. for the most part. so i do not have a problem thinking IM ok r "self right" , i believe if i do not believe in my rightness who ever i can help will not be able to , to believe it is possible I can help. If i do not think im ok I cant ask for help when IM NOT!!! you know? my spin on God may be different from many christians, see I think God truly loves me even while a sinner! truly it is written as such right? so I may have a "bad day" fall short of everyones exspectation But HIS. and as long as I know the LORD is with me i will find another who will help me understand for a better day. and in that day I can look and pray for those who need His light also to me this is how the LORD loves each of us and what makes being a follower of christ so handy and wonderful.