pond

Jesus says to come to him as a little child, not to much knowledge or wisdom in a little child . I thought "wisdom was a manefastation hahah wisdom doesnt take knowledge at all the wisdom of God is Given to a person not a learned as in your works once again. jesus did give us much more than eternal life or a salvation from this life, he gave us access to God or reconciliation to HIS wisdom. once again it is NOT all about what you can accomplish , but what Jesus christ did for you. this moving away from the Saviour is done exactly like you describe in the thinking you can do it it is all about you working for it. the salvation of Christ is a gift. freely given with No strings attached. There is no such thing as your more knowledgeable strings if you do this or that. But stf will tell you this tape or seminar will give you these powers better than anyone eles. and yes it is a sell of witchcraft. It turns into a competition , (how powerful are YOU?) What do you think you Learned?) now you can personal prophecy, which is what i was referring to in that post. God says His ways are very much higher than any mans ability, yet you still compete for His title as has satan since this whole thing started! and it works because you FEEL better more equiped better able for God, YOU have the answer , even if it from the bible story, it is YOUR spin on how YOU think it applies to a person. and YOU got the power... YOU helped... you learned the ways of God which is a solid LIE as the bible clearly says Jesus christ is Gods ONLY Son. all this line of thinking moves a person awy from the AWE of Jesus Christ and the majesty and into the focus of what YOU can do . just like the snake first deceived . you can be like God. it is suble and tricky and many involved in these off shoots buy the LIE.

when you say your precious "enablements" with those words of your learning of "how to work God's power that lives in YOU" you sound Proud and able beyond what those who "obvioulsy have a different view of things". are you certain you do NOT believe you more enlightened than the "joe Christian" and you not super duper with all power christian? more learned anyways right? hmmm. lucky you right? does God love you more, or is all about what YOU have been able to accomplish once again with a twist in it and a but but but? sure sounds like a tad arrogant to me. news flash I do not give personal prophecy to anyone nor do i recieve it from the super learned beyond "joe believer"( less than is REALLY implied in your statement) and God loves me and enables me plenty. it fits like a hand in a glove WHY you want this group to carry on they are some of the "more learned" beyond Joe believer who have a different view of things, and important to you because your special . and they provide you with some twisted bible reference so you can continue to feel superiour with them. now it is even MORE special cause hell yah they got caught in a mistake and you still can give and recieve prophecy and not have the finger turned on YOU .. yet. you even better than them now!!! but do keep it in context dear , they are also of the special more learned group. you need to believe it. about them and about you. for me the LORD Jesus christ accomplished all the learning I will ever need and simply calls himself my friend. Im happy you feel so successful , and believe for your friends to keep on learning how to prophecy to one another and ya know those pesky "joe believers" will just have to carry on with only the LORD to love and guide them. sorry i feel i got the better deal. love joe believer.

They wanted stupid people. people with problems. people who for some reason could not or would not accept society rules for success. it was the world and a bad bad thing for you! join twi and you will loved and accepted and finaly a success because how many people did YOU get born again? i remember a lady who was in twi they had a fine beautiful home, yes it was where the class was run! her hubby was a successful man, business type traveled alot! drank alot. twi kept the little woman busy while he lived a life he wanted. one day she asked me why in twenty years she never got ONE person to take pfal, and I had so very many sign up and finish the class. the answer was clear to me and I told her I didnt do anything God gives the increase! yeah i believed that, I did and that is why i got so hurt when i was marked. in two decades giving of her home and much much money to twi and she still didnt understand it. she was a sad lonely woman looking so good and successful doing twi bidding . her precious hubby who provided so well for twi and her, died at a very young age alone in another country in a hotel room. when i was selling pfal , i was young and wanted to be successful I wanted to help people I wanted to belong to something. these are normal desires. twi robbed many of the life we should have had . im angry a little because they were not young they KNEW and made a fine living OFF the work and love the young and dare i say stupid or unknowing of how manipulating people can be for their own gain. they didnt love me. they didnt care about my life or where or what would happen to me, they had the plan and it worked for them. to me it was very unloving. i do not regret i have spoken to one old friend fromhigh school an old man now haha like me and he is clergy never had children.. sold out to twi still . states away from any "earthly family or friends". they are ok, they just wont consider the life they could have had. the world was sold as a bad place and twi was a good place. i bought that . what a lie.

that is truly a gift! amazing truly amazing! wow how does he do that? is he rich? he should be

be honest. even if it wont be out loud . how many of you die hards believe that if you let this group of people go, just do not associate with stf or ces that God will love you less? or maybe just you wont know Him as well? that the knowledge will be gone ? that there is no one eles to "really" teach the truth? Do you (just a little bit even if not out loud?) think any other group or church will be a compromise or a lesser than? less power? less truth less love, than anywhere eles? why do you think this is so important? to hang on now through it all? do you really really LOVE and have an investment in these leaders life and they yours? REALLY???? ok think think think and be honest WHY? i know i was in a cult how about you?

i too would believe in the secret, if i could make as much money off selling it as that group does. a challlenge for all the secret lovers stop making money off selling your idea of what will work for everyone eles but you! see if it really works then and let me know for free! not going to happen is it?

a very nice post. I hear a sense of pride in your voice, heck your post made even me proud of you and your mom... and you cary that with you today because she put the work in to give you that pride! pride in being able to feed and house your family in taking responsibility for your life. it is a gift a valuable gift. it is a feeling of belonging of knowing regardless of what happens YOU can make it if you work hard and keep trying. it is the american manner of life ( or used to be!) this sense you have and give is priceless and it is what is the very foundation of ALL success in life. now score that with a person who was raised on being dependent on a system that also breeds poverty that does not meet the basic needs of a family . they come away with the poverty mode of thinking AND the inability to know any other manner of living. instead of producing adults who now learn what being poor met but a way out by different choices and circumstance learned from the parents down fall, they learned NO way out. your mom gave you a chance a chance to see it can and will work if you keep trying, she taught you life is not all about material stuff, but that honor and pride and willingness to keep working will work. I believe it does. but some in prison of poverty that have NEVER known any other way to buy food other than food stamps or any other home other than in the decaying neighborhood welfare can afford, some think it is just life when a child is taken from its parents because the drugs or alcohol are more important. A child does not understand why it happens , but when they grow up they do! and the sadness and choices of the parent are already instilled and the hope of repeating that learned behaviour is mighty . you are a solid citizen with a pride in taking care of yourself. congrats to you and your mom for the success. how could you be so fortunate if no one ever showed you how? it is a very difficult thing to overcome, because as a cycle go you must leave all of the relationships encased in the lifestyle and venture out to a world unknown. and it is risky and unsafe and lonely without those who always loved you the best they knew how, and you will feel as tho you bad bad different and wrong . No one enjoys being dependent NO ONE but to become Independent is so very unknown and frightening and risky the courage it takes is just overwhelming for so many. your mom tuaght you we eat because i go to work . If i do not go to work we will all die. a person on the system has been taught we do not know how to find food we do not know how to live in a different neighborhood, and the system does so we must be on it. do not lose it or you will die. and they educate their children to what they know. both parents love their children . both parents instill a thought pattern difficult to shake.

It was instilled within me in twi that the "clergy" the leaders were a "higher authority" they knew more had more knowledge of God, and God just dealt with them more so He must love them more. I learned the word "meek" in twi and it was not to be to God it was to the leaders and ministers because God put them in positions of authority. some of this stuff is still residue in the followers of the off shoots. it is some deep stuff, that will blow your mind when and if you ever break it. sure sure now we have to be pc and not really say it out loud... youknow say one thing but have the know how with many years of practice to influence people to what really should be. and if you "get it" they will love you , and tell you all the others just do not get the "real meaning " so you to can feel relieved your in with God like them you know up there where the "others" do not understand just yet. but of course they must be careful the devil and all want them!!! more than those unbelieving believers and he will use them to cause division. so be nice and know if you really trust God you should just trust it will be just another case of "them" not getting the real meaning (because they do not understand God as they do of course) and do not speak of any gossip (o gasp! not that just the very foundation of the CES ministry that JOHN LYNN started with) and be happy. because they care about you until YOU do question how it is done or what happened. it is serious business living off other people and one has to be careful you know and trust only those worthy of it! some day God almighty will slap them right across the face. Im convinced.

I am not sure I believed. but i sure hoped.

A baby is a wonderful thing, people have rights to have children. NY now has child suport laws in which eventualy a father can go to jail. Which doesnt help really with the supporting of the child does it? they first lose the license to drive, which also doesnt help with finding gainful employment. so once they lose their license and have a jail record employment is even more difficult. I do not see the positive side of this route. In NY a mother can only be on welfare a total of two years in her life time!!! one or six kids they can and will be shut off within that time! so what happens is the kids go to the foster system or often times being raised by gramma or great gramma. NOT good . drugsand alcohol dependence are linked to this type of poverty and hopelessness and gramma doesnt ask how the 13 or ten year old got some money this week( even if it was running drugs) because his mom her own child is now living on the same streets . it is a cycle of dependence and very strong, losing children has little effect and frankly our city has no where to put these "kids at risk" . I think we should help if we can always. I honor my ability to work enough to not be bitter or angry at those who can not or do not know how . it isnt as easy as they do not WANT to . some will pull out of the trap.. sadly many will never. one of our judges has ordered birth control to a mom ging to jail pregnate with her 9th , all of them high needs and disabled and in the system. it is going up to the court of supreme to make a law, the civil liberties are flying high on this one. what do YOU think is the solution? just stop those youngins from having some sex? tell them they can not have a baby? force them to be sterile? i have no solution i do know Jesus said the poor will alwys be with us.

her life is compared to that of marilyn monroe, and this is just another common thing a odd early death in a motel room. i wonder if we will speculate and keep her ghost alive like poor poor monroe. ok I will say it this is how i feel smith was no super star! I do not think they can or should be compared. her teeth and gums were to big. yes indeed her poor baby, who is the daddy and the millions and millions from a mom who never had a clue.

Well sorry, BUT do you want to work with a nut case? do you want to have your co-worker be so fat they are slow and stink and eat to much food constantly? Do you want your co-worker call in sick be late and all the issues mental helath issues bring in life? I do not. I tired of picking up the slack and I do not have compassion for those who get the same pay as I but cant function as the job dictates. is this the stigma of having mental health issues every cries foul about? to bad. open a company and hire them then but be sure YOUR the one who has to do double time with them to get the job done.

How about he who is without sin casting the first stone?? the crowd confronted her and was going to kill her! a legal thing to do being as she was caught in the act. they had every LEGAL right to stone her! she was wrong they were right! Jesus came along and said let her go unless your perfect and without sin! they did not carry through with the right or principle that legaly she could have died in. I bet this verse can be used for their adultery which All three of the founding people of stf have confessed to be guilty of! but I think it also shows Jesus compassion in situations where you can be wronged and have every legal right to even KILL a person yet Jesus chose LOVEand forgivness instead. and yes boys LOVE is a action word it comes to a point where grown up can realize LOVE is more than a feeling of emotions it is in what YOU do how you act and behave and conduct your life! that is love. God gave his ONLY begotten Son! hello for many many generations God told the people He loved them but it was the ACTIOn the behaviour of Jesus Christ that proved what LOVE really is! and jesus was wronged plenty by those who claimed to LOVE HIM in fact it was Gods own people who murdered him by vote ironic just how Mark G lost his job, and he asked the Father to forgive them. he could have had a thousand angels at any time yet he didnt retaliate on people he didnt do this tit for tat game these men are doing to one another. Jesus taught understanding forgivness and tolerance for our problems , He doesnt tell us to win at all cost , He says we are winners and He will take us to a kingdom that this type of killing and destroying will not happen, Untill then He asks us to be different and not play by the rules that hurt and devour one another. he commands we do love one another. he asks us to forgive one another. Love is in the doing of it.

ok. sigh. I read Marks letter again . One of the big reason they are fighting is because they break the "confidant" words between one another. back stabbing and personal words spoken that shocked them when revealed to others. Im sorry at fifty I just ask why? so they trust one another to cover one another and it didnt work for someone and they got angry. everyone who has every been 13 or 14 years of age gets this hurt in life. What we learned in juniour high is donot tell stories you do not want others to know , do not say anything to a person you wouldnt say in front of the person your talking to. marriage issues someone whined about how the marriage is ging... HELLO now do we need a lesson in why people want to be sympathetic long enough to get a life off others pain and have a party? this is why conselors make money to keep their mouth shut. they trusted one another and found themselves really really hurting from one another. they are friends and co-workeers for decades. and they are devouring one another. do you want to "give them a chance " to be healed with your life? not me that is down right frightening and life is to full of good decent God loving people who do not want to go to where these guys have gone and go several times in life with foks they LOVE! much less just give them money or buy a product they produce. im sad.

no father? no they have not always done dna tests for at least the last few decades. the laws here in NY have only been around for about ten years for child support . so what difference does it make anywya until they could what take their license, many could care less . but it is better. a story. a friend of mine had a teenage son who had a baby that she raised since the day he was born. her son got married and had 7more children with his wife. old girlfriend fought for custody of her son and lost , so then she claimed she had another child by my friends son. they took him to court she had to give name of all the possible fathers of whcih she named four. three left town couldnt be found etc. so he went in and the judge told him well it is possible your the father YOU pay and pay he did and won custody of the baby when it was born. he had to defend himself to PROVE he was not the father! but he chose to keep the baby instead of fighting her. so the baby sits in the family photo and you would say who is that??? and he says it is suppose to be my son . cruel you say? my friend is balck as night so is her son . this baby is white as snow. He is married to a white woman and all of their children are mixed and remember he has a son by the girl from when he was a teen and they do not even remotely look alike and they are full blood brothers. my friend gramma watches the kids and the parents of these NINE kids both work full time to give their children a good life. BOTH times the girl got pregnate she wanted the pay check and the housing not the baby. to me they are hero's

wow I do not believe that would EVER happen with these stf leaders. I do not know if I can expalin this but you know in a sense I do feel sorry for them, they can not be honest, the game would be over because the money would dry up and the friends they might think they had would go away. sad really. you know If i stink my friends pretty a much know it. and that is why I call them my friends. the relationships these people form are not the type I seek in life. of course then my friends aint sending in any checks either hmmm well that is ok when IM in all my glory being just me and my friend is with me it is payment enough these days. cheap I guess.

I honestly believe their attitude is one of being superior called of God. the definition is "the head of a religous community". yes i think people are critical of how they live life and behaviours and I know they live off that, educate their children and theirself off that and travel off that. they ask for the money, but think money doesnt cost anything in life. it costs every person plenty. they do not get that. and when the toe must meet the line SUDDENLY they become a victim . and satan must be attacking them. shat we are all accoutable but them . because they are the superior. get over it , get a job answer to someone eles for a change! oh heck no not that not EVER. none of them ever lived in submission to anyone.. mark G. had his own company and called the shots and both Johns have never left the ministry and living off the collection of people pleasing with a sermon. this is NOT a well rounded life. and the very last one to tell me how to run my own.

yes I think we should help them. something is wrong. they can not function. here in NY being on welfare for anyone abe to work is NOT easy. they do have to show up and anser for it and they do ave to have drug tests. they do not have to be sober to collect but NOW the problem is documented and life will reflect the issue. we can not let them sit homeless or starve. what bothers me is the girls collecting the money with the baby daddy no name , and a guy sitting in the paid house with them. eating the food feeling the love etc. that makes me mad. the city is so unsafe many girls will have babies from one guy and another guy livng with them . leaves alot of time for crime to happen. who will report them? not me i do not want to live next to a angry thug and his children. they win hands down. they can and do as they please float between this childs mama to that one. not a bad living really. reminds me of alley cats.

What Im saying is for me it is about being accountable. John Lynn is friendly to whom he chooses to be friendly to, a potential partner that does not have to much information or questions about the situation is welcomed to talk to him or e-mail him . I have e-mailed all of them except JOHN LYNN because the fact he was married and it failed in such short order is enough information for me to doubt his promises or words or integrity or even accoutability to God. I do not need details , a vow before God was made and quickly broken for the second time in his life. yep he answers to christ. as we all do but and yet he is not an apostle who keeps failing to honor Gods very primary wishes divorce is very serious with God as is the VOW he made to God with elizabeth. details do not help this error speaks volumes on his attitude alone. as far as their replies they are fighting and no one will get the story now , and no one will be accoutable. the attornys will handle it! but yet they writw books and spend years telling everyone eles that is exactly what we should do! but they just do not have to that is my point.

sounds like a reasonable thing , pffff unless you count the many who he talks at that he thinks could give him and his group some cash. no names and addresses or personal issues (to use against them in case of confrontation) needed them hmmm? what a hypocrit.

When telling the story many say "if this helps just one person it would be worth it" what about "if this HURTS just one person it IS NOT worth it?"

Excuse me. Im done finding an excuse for theses guys. I do not know why you feel you need to defend their behavours and attitudes. Is it because you believe they are somehow a special people beyond what others may be called? Ive been in this my enitre life, and you what? NO MORE! be in denial make an excuse use a bible verse to justify their actions and call yourself a better christ follower all you want to. it just isnt working for me anymore. this attitude is exactly why they have been able to finance what they have done to hurt people for many DECADES. because now you to can be part of the super race of those God still considers better and more elect than the rest!! because you can be more noble? I think not try more in denial and more willing to compromise truly what God calls good and right because you recognize their flesh in some way. truth or tradition is the name of the web site just what part of this are you clinging to NOW??? truth or the tradition that these guys can pull anything they chose to and somhow in our tradition of folowing their words we can twist and turn the facts and the truth to fill our tradition once again. what a lie from hell what a total trip of denial to justify your own tradition you refuse to let go of.

You sound heart broken. you know what? I also would love to say Im part of something that has the truth that has Gods true words to us, that has fine up-standing men willing to heed the Lords call and help us learn what the scriptures tell us. but I have to admit my teacher is Christ alone. and this leaves people pleasing and friendships and relationshps in a position of lesser than. and it can hurt someone with a heart towards giving love back as we have received from the Lord. you so concerned with how we treat one another forget they are the ones devouring one another? they are the ones fighting in a fleshy relm of who is who and who God is telling who to? they are not innocent, stop protecting a dream of a place where your leader is divine. He is divine and His name is Jesus christ . theworld is not our home and to be the protector of all puts you in the very same areana that is what started their own fighting and division and true hate towards one another.

my cat is my best friend. I love him very much. I would spend thousands on medical care for him. he is my pet. BUT/AND we need animals for testing. no way around it. we are humans and humans need help and animals should be the ones tested. why? because animals are NOT people and people should come before animals. if this seems warped to you. then i do not understand. Jesus doesnt say love all the creatures he says LOVE ONE ANOTHER! no we shouldnt abuse anything BUT here is your choice people or an animal. but of course not my cat, I know , but why should one animal suffer and one lives in a luxury life with me as a precious beast? why does one person get a life threatening disease and not another? who comes first in your mind? if it was a person even a lousy no good person or my cat I would have to give him (my buddy)up. oh my god it wouldbe difficult BUT THINK who is more important to you? why?