pond

words like illogic shut down the discussion and kind of insult another. I know christian do NOT readily accept any knowledge or information that does not contain bible verses or story or even remote twisted reference of some sort. word is easy dismissed as wrong because the base line is the truth of the word. and who can agure with God almighty? that is how I got involved with twi that whole line of thinking, which is NOT thiniking at all just eating something without regard to what it may taste like . the bible says to make the truth of it your own. you will not and CAN not do that step unless you think. and you are NOT thinking if every story besides what is chapter and verse is just plain wrong and to be dismissed. when you think and come to a conclusion that belongs to you, the fight inside has ended and no longer can bible verses generate strive confusion and hurt feelings. because it belongs to you. you take ownership for what you think. and that for me is how Jesus Christ lives everyday for me. the irratation comes when you feel you have to prove an idea, and the things we agrue about often happen to be the very thoughts that do nOT bring peace in our life in fact they are thoughts we need to defend because somone can and do erode in our mind how we can trust or "know" them. So truly illogical feeling of anger and resentment and often hate become involved . not Gods will for anyone really. it is unbelief. and using the bible as a bullet to hurt another and not the LORDS style at all. God is loving . Jesus is a patient guy and He understands people better than we do. jeaniam I love you. consider maybe your motive in this discussion is it to right? or is to love another? is it to prove the truth well that says to me you must have it exclusively and without regard to anothers point of view. that seldom will work with a people such as we are. A disciple of christ does not need to DEFEND the truth, He defends us . Your not Jesus christ jeaniam . He is our brother and He asks us to love one another. I like your posts very much. I sugggest when you feel the emotions of greater than" them" because you KNOW what the bible says (trust me i do know as well) it may be bible worship, and idol used to hurt another. it is a sly trick and effective amoung religous types it is what ultimately succeeded in putting Jesus through a trial in which He gave HIS life. He could have had a resucue and showed them who was the TRUTH right then and there, He didnt chose that path.. He gave it up and obeyed His fathers will. and died. because He loves that much. such as HE is. Of course we do not sway with every wind of doctrine, but we do not live in a vacum either, the primary call of a christian is to love another, and it aint as easy as it sounds it truly isnt abuot the other guy it is all about our own thoughts and thinking and ability to maintain a mind that can obey Gods will. keep posting, and fight the good fight dear BUT we do not fight people honey we love them .

it makes for a complicated talk to through in yeah i learned that when i was in a cult or yeah when i was camping at the rock of ages one time, or even the whole home fellowship thing raises eye brows. and i do not want to explain. how can i? and my family knows and i know they do not want me to start on THAT again. to be honest i do not preach, or even bring up my faith unless it is a good converstion that i can feel good about. hmm why? well to much overload of that. i say im a christian and leave it ALL alone now more interested in what others think or can teach me. mostly i do not go there with my life at all. and when somone eles start i walk away. i do not enjoy it anymore and do not trust religous folks what a hoot huh? o sorry I thought that your post said where are your friends in troubled waters and i was trying to muster up some excuse. my bad see??? im not real swift .

Even if it isnt three D live people I can see and know. it doesnt matter to me. When my kids grew older and asked questions as adult about the cult we were in, angry about life and how it all happened . I realized wow it is in me. some say allow the past to be the past and im not one on for rehearsal in life ,I wonder if there is any one eles out there that knows. some what here they do. im not angry anymore IM wounded . they say move on WELL I carry this experience of bible study pfal and much much more. i wont deny it was a part of my life or that it didnt shape my life. at GS has allowed me a place to try to adjust to just how. many of us are still processing that twi thing in life. personly because i happen to buy into the meet me at the bema theory and we are family and life is very difficult for a reason so to dismiss what "i learned" is impossible. throw out the chaff has never been my mainstay crap as i get lder Im more afraid of it than ever. so here ALL of me just is. and it is the only place i have that I am . cult and all.

lol wow I love this forum the Way taught me to be paranoid! it took years to shake and Im still working heavy on it. it is hard to explain but it was like every person had the capacity to have an EVil devil spirt that would turn and "be out of fellowship" be evil etc. and bible verses were used to beat one another up about who we were! no one was ever good enough. and some well hell yeah they were just better because they had "stood" in the ministry for years. above reproach or any saying anything negative about. it was such a cult. today I recognize we didnt trust God at all. Jesus told the twelve not to marvel at the fact devil spirits obeyed them etc.. but to rejoice we have a place in the kingdom. Well plenty of marveling over devil spirits in twi. the mark and avoid taught fear well that is the devil run run get away we do not like you! and it was fear . fear of people. fear we could catch a devil and never be helped or even loved by the "TRUE" God ever again. it doesnt make much sense to me today. God knows what I deal with in life Jesus calls us "friends". we are not strnagers to them.. yet when push came to shove twi taught us to hide not stand. isolate and hide because mankind is evil and we might get involved and not be able to escape! it is hysterical to me now, but still in times of stress I fall into the thinking that people are out to get me once again.

Ienjoy bible storys, i do not worship them tho. I rather enjoy a spirit filled walk that can recognize God or a higher power that gives one hope. the bible is written so we can learn from it but all the "happenings" and storys are not written in it John in REV, says their is not enough books in the entire world to handle all what the story unfolds for us. this does leave alot of room for the confortor or the spirit to continue to teach our soul about who and what God and us mean .

I am disappointed and feel left out

well shellon and I are in the chat room here on the forum without issues for the stupid about talking shoes

just listening , no button he said he thinks there was arrogance in the way!!!!

how do i see the chat room in the show im listening to it

well go into the chat room here then!!! I only see pawtucket on the small black screen that is talking where do you see them?

ok im listening to it, but i do not know how to talk in it. so im in the chat room on this forum any other people want to come in and be stupid with me?

Im not aware it requires it either. I think the reason the agape "love" you make reference to while in the way didnt work or make a difference in life is because it most probably was not that at all. folks can call whatever they like love and put fancy titles on it even.. How i recognize love is truly in the fruits it bears, is it kind is it all what the bible says it is to be ? and i have a spirt within that discerns and helps .

I may be wrong but isnt this like thinking if you "likeminded on the word," or took pfal class it puts you in a cult like group thing again? I get that no "believer" likes an unbeliever theory. I just do not like the whole concept of it. reminds me of something um what was that? hmm? a cult maybe? so you meet somoen who "believes" as you do! how lucky, and stale . I want a person who can teach me and I can grow and change and become with. but then again ive been single a long long time. Im probably wrong. seems like the idea it isnt about what he/she thinks, wants or needs it is the word and nothing but the word that you would have a relationship built on for a foundation in life. could work im just looking for something um different.

It is obvious you do not know chapter and verse... so many records in fact the entire bible is written about good and evil , God is love Satan is hate. it is always a choice to chose which means of acting out you believe is right . All people are capable of both indeed. I guess you would have alot of problems with what God chose to do with people over and over records of destroying and defeating the enemy, in some extremely brutal forms, and some punishments for sin against God that caused great misery and harm to His own people. The final being the very Death of a Son that always obeyed God. that is Gods plan to redeem all of us. sounds abusive to me, to have a man who always loved (did the Father will which is love) die a horrid public mocking death. such was and is the Agape difference in love one who would lay down his very life. Love as defined in the bible is not going to hurt anyone , but the battle the enemy the other choice we have can and does hurt everyone who decides to manifest that abiltity . When Paul sat in a stinkin jail cell , Gods will was done when the jailor was able to believe in Jesus christ as the Saviour of mankind! maybe Paul thought it should have been the nearby resort hotel with all the fixin BUT God didnt, and the obedience of His voice allowed Paul to witness to a man who can now have the victory over death with the rest of the saints. i read the bible storys and i often say WahOOOOO look at this story what an adventure what a trial what strength and endurance to obey God that charactor had! it is written to inspire what we may need to get through a life filled with many temptations to not look to the Rock of Jesus for answers. it is a christians history of Gods people. it isnt a "balanced" life a follower of Christ is called to . it is a faith filled life. and please to not include me in your group think statement of "we didnt get very far with chapter and verse" the bible is very dear to me and has gotten me this far in life praise God for the knowledge and wisodm of His words written.

this agape love idea: ok i write like an idiot But if one does not recognize a spiritual life or a "difference" by believing in God, then surly they can not be able to recognize this "difference" in the process of loving one another or recieving of love from another. to love is action hence the word manisfestation. All can love as i said my fur ball "loves" me, it is an emotional reaction build into our frames and body. the different is we can recognize a difference when we have the SPIRIT that speaks within our soul and telling us how God may be FEELING, and at times it is quite a difference than my own dare I say! one without this spirit awareness will not recognize the different type of love being displayed or recieved . hence to them it would be the same as any love. the love of God is more powerful than humans and yes we can "do" it, why because we have His spirit within. we are to walk by our spirit and live by our spirit etc... hopefully to tune in to God and HIS love better, knowing or recognizing HIM is the POWER or the difference and it certainly is superiour. his is the key word i must decrease He must increase.. knowing that was Gods love on display brings us much joy and helps us journy with the LORD in life and help one another. arrogance would be displayed when one begins to think because by the very GRACE of God you have a spirit of HIM within you your a better person when in reality nope still just a person like any other person. give God the glory when we recognize the differnt kind of love in our life truly it is His love for us that allows us to help and serve one another. the love of God from another has often humbled me to the point of absolute awe. because i recognize it with my spirit from HIM. it is all about HIM , if not than yep it is arrogance.

Im not trying to hurt Pawtucket, I do appreciate this forum. Im sorry if your angry with what I wrote, ya know , i was only replying on a thread to bagpipes who had alot to say. I didnt mean any harm to pawtucket or disrespect. you can erase the thread, im surprised it got this far myself.

Java Jane indeed! I did use that because my reply is on an ex way forum and it was easier to write. Jesus as Lord does not neccesarily take the knowledge of ANY bible verse. It is the knowledge of God the seking of God etc.. we are called before the foundation, we are chosen and Gods will is that ALL be saved. the spiritual choice is there for those with the ears to hear. bramble God is LOVE. it is not conditional it is as far from any condition as one can get. SALVATION is the key word here, to be saved, from what? life? we have a ife everyone has a life that is born, so what are we SAVED from? DEATH!!!!!!! ooo yeah remeber that little thing that happened during the fall now man can DIE!!! serious stuff. so be SAved from death one needs to recognize how death was defeated HENCE THE SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST! beli3eve on HIM and the fact He was RAISED from DEATH, and you can be saved from WHAT DEATH> not life . life is a given everything has life because God loves us! it is in the RISEN life of Jesus Christ we believe that conquered death. giving us a future kingdom in which the issues that arise now will be eliminated namely sin and death. christian are just people who believe in the theory of the bible story. why is it still theory? because it has NOT happened yet!!! no superiority God is love and He does not pick and CHOSE !! PEOPLE pick and Chose whether to believe in His plan for the redemption or not. if your not a christian God loves you you get all what he has created, you got life itself!!! good enough for many folks. If you happen to accept Christ as Lord and the bible plan well the fact is you wont die you will have perfect bodies one day you will live in the kingdom with Jesus christ and God without SIN and the issues we face today. your saved from death.

to say to another to shut up implies you do want them to stop talking because your do not agree with what they are stating to the point of refusing to engage in any type of hearing what they say and with a brute force type of word. this is not allowing cooler heads to prevail. it is dismissing the other opinion and demanding it go away. what right does anyone have to say to another to shut up? those who feel they can. to me it is in the bully atmosphere that this forum engages in and is exactly what bagpipes quoted from the book in action . group think and who has the bigger power base of popularity of who knows who and who was once somebody in a cult or in an off shoot. all of that plays out still here on this forum. and dictates who has the power and "stand" hahaha to be able to play out their role. it has always worked and it always will. personaly i think it is a hoot. I laugh at your games when you play them out so clearly I was also in the way I know how they are played so sneaky and trite and mean and destructive, no one is even aware of how they keep doing it, under the guise of somone who cares oh hell is that not how we all ended up taking pfal? because you wanted answers and someone loved you enough to have you get involved? and you believed them and got sucked into a system of corruption beyond your dreams? lol . power and say so was the motivation in twi and it often comes down to the same desires in life at this forum. people rarely change their spots and certainly even if recognized almost always will use them again as a last resort to be right. it is in the training kids. power is a learned thing and feels good, the forum is here because those who sought it maybe even had it still want that type of connection ! Bag pipes here is the thing and i love you , your trying to explain to this forum that you are angry with pawtucket and you disagree with him about your wow brother. ok I get that. you can be right now. so your right. this man who you know is worth alienating your friends at grease-spot? you can stil be of a different opiion than pawtucket and post here. I might also be of a different opion than many on this web site and i believe IM right. so what? I have no need to be right and cause harm to another . and i have no need to be so right i would give up posting here. that does not mean I have changed my mind on IM right, just that their right is right for them and mine is for me, and love can and does prevail in a peaceful sense of this is just an internet forum I do not have to wash their undies or name my first born child after them. you took all of this personal. why? because you chose to invest in this man in question and formed a differnt opion of him than the one pawtucket said to you. pawtucket might have spoken to you abut him because HE CARES ABOUT YOU!!!! and wants no harm to come to you!!!! that cant be all bad can it? think about it just for a moment and what was pawtucket motive? who is right or wrong in this case is important because you have strong feelings about your wow brother(ok ok bagpipes sounds like the loyality letter of how wows are cominted in salt or some cult crazy thinking dang crap dang sorry but true) YUCK! you decided to give the wow brother your ears to hear because while involved in twi you loved him!!! ok ok not exactly healthy base line for arelationship on top of the fact Paw has had words of warning about him. so you took the"side" of your wow brother. i know I know you FEEL this as genuine rightness because along the line paw made you feel angry and your wow brother reunited has not yet done that. relatinships do indeed get icky messy and damaging hello if you care about one another it is bound to happen the day comes when you disagree., and the strength of that reationship is tested. you and pawtuckets got a trial of your relationship. did you fight for it? NO! you went to this twi wow brother thingy frame of mind and invested in that completely and wholly accusing Paw of not being a friend when in FACT he did all he could for you as a person who CARES for your well being!!!!! so you do not agree with who is dude is. SO WHAT??? you could be right you could be wrong and same for pawtucket ! but your the one who didnt givethe relationship you have with pawtucket a chance to be believed in. bagpipes your the one doing EXACTLY what you accuse pawtucket of, your the one who attacked pawtucket because he disagrees with your assesment of the wow brother. and he has been your friend and his only motive was to protect you. i tell you what any relationship that destroys another is not worth it. this dude has pulled you away from soemthing you like, something that has helped you heal from l damage done by the very group you align and find loyalty for the wow brother with!! He has isolated YOU from people who care about you. Christ i hope for your sake he is worth it. think babpipes think . is your eed to be right about him worth it? is he worth it? Pawtucket did NOT say to you believe me about this guy or you can no longer write on the forum or share, but you drew the line in the sand and said . I will not post again because he is wrong about "my wow brother" Jesus knows bagpipes with comments as strong as that you still have alot of connection to twi in your head. recognize that for a minute and remember Paw was only trying to love you . what is the wow brother motive? you sure? pawtucket has shown his motive and heart for years here . things got ugly IM sure as love does a twist like that when we care. happens to all of us who feel passion about stuff and people. stop the hate and try looking at it with eyes of love for once why would pawtucket hurt you? maybe he did hurt you. and you gave it right back. the source of this crap is that wow brother, so you are his princess of grace and have a need to save his representation in this forum? but you need to leave to do so? sounds fishy pipes real fishy. do not dismiss a friend because you disagree. time is not doen and the whole story isnt out pipes love them both and stop for Gods sake taking on all these mens issues in life. your not jesus nor can you change the facts or people opinons. I think you made a mistake in cutting off what may be your only source of truth.

This is a topic that gives me so much stress. I didnt sleep walk, my sister did. and im afraid even to this day for her. one time she went downstairs and we had a babysitter an old lady and she was yelling at her and i took her back up the long winding stairs to our old victorian house she slept through it all. the worse was when we went camping with a youth group outside along a river we slept in bags , i never slept when she was with me cause i was always frightened she would slap me or somone or get hurt. We were on a rivers edge and she could have fallen or got lost in the woods, .. i knew she ws not well cause she was talking and talking in her sleep. and then she was near the fire almost fell in it and i got her. i just cant stand the memories to even speak about it. so not funny, Gods utter grace. so many times. and my youngest child got it some. 2 years old walking through a snow pile in the middle of the night once .. i have no idea how she got out there she slept in MY room!!! she had night terrors to, screaming like somone just cut her leg off sound asleep unable to wake her up. and after everyone was awake and afraid in her face she would wake up and smile and wonder why everyone looked like she was on fire! omyg. this topic to much. cant stand it. carry on.

it is like code words for a private club that only those who can understand them can get in. special again .

Excuse me I never said anything about being "born again" , If a person believes romans 9, 10 they have the gift of holy spirit which is the believing in the atonement of Jesus Christ etc. that is right a baby is not born into the citizenship of the new kingdom. says the bible. not me. it is a willful CHOICE to worship God, not a forced measure of all being without a choice on whom to worhship or not. at any given moment in time. If one does not believe there is a God what use do they have for HIM? none and plenty of people fall into this group! they live life and then they die they do not go for this eternal life and prayer business. why would there ever be a need? for a new kingdom? if this one was already filled with Gods will and people? what you claim mocks the entire bible story of how what and were etc..... apparently your not so familiar with the actual records and what the declare as truth. since the dawn of man or creation it has been a Choice to worhship the true God or not. I say nothing about who can and can not love that is jeans thing not mine. again you lump everything into one pile of right and wrong. provisions are written for those who fear some can never make the choice of whether to believe they will be HEALED at the time of the return and then given the choice whether to accept Jesus as LORD ro not. a father house has plenty to do with that and whether anyone has interceded and asked for them to be healed, they were prayed for and the healing will come and the choice MUST be made before the throne of Christ. unbeliever or natural citizens of earth will ALSO be in the kingdom!! not every person will die befroe the thousand year reign .they will have a chance to Chose then whether they will follow the Lord while he is again on earth during His reign! some will not chose to follow Christ then even then with the Lord alive and in power over the earth just as when He walked the earth in the flesh and they will die a natural persons death. I have no idea what your talking about as far as "accoutability" it is merely a choice to love God or not and believe He raised Jesus from the dead. not until the final battle and death is destoyed can Jesus give the children competely over to Gods and his will be done. you come on this thread and blast me. some nerve you have no bible record at all as the bible clearly states what i have said here as truth. if you want to talk about what you think think away many new ideas forming everyday , that does mean your saying Gods plan .

people are not All children of the heavenly Father. God made Adam he created Adam and eve only :after that the system in which He created within a man's and a womans body gave them the ability to make more just like all of his creations. Adam was THE creation (one time only then the folks populated the earth) after the fall the lines are CLEARLY drawn on who belongs to God and who does NOT!!! more do not than do by far. record after record of who is who in the bible and even Jesus says to them your Father is satan. we are a CHOOSEN people! hello choosen says their will be a number in the NOT chosen group. even in the kingdom natural people will be born and die a natural death, during the reign of Christ. Not until the final battle and Christ gives his rulership to God does the earth return to a state of All belonging to God.

I think some christians think they are the ONE God choose to redeem mankind. that is by loving another we can make eternal life happen, or change circumstances as they are. this is also why many refuse to enter into His will. WE all deep inside know the life we live can be miserable and very disappointing . regret, sorrow and even death is real to all of us. the bible speaks of loving to make a difference, it must be a ideal you think will work. But first we must remember the record in its self of how why what and the plan of God beyond the circumstance and maybe in spite of the circumstance. hope is the theme in the bible the jews and followers of christ HOPE for different kingdom. so why not just accept the Saviour and be a hater? we can! plenty do. the difference is my life is when i am loved, by God and by another . Does it make a difference for you to be loved? If I think a God happens to be real, I cant prove it, I can not see HIM or prove the miricle is what i think it is. But love does prove itself it makes a difference and ATTRACTS people. if i think IM a worm and a sinner that cant be loved by God or another human it isnt attractive or inviting nor does it change anything. low self esteem erodes , we all know that and we all deal with it at times in life. well most anyway. to know im a sinner and Jesus christ LOVED me anyway now that is powerful enough to make me want to change to be able to love like that to be able help another feel that love. they look at me and ask ? why do you love? and I can say because He first loved me! Not because I have a good job or my hair turned out ok today, or my life is peachy. the path leads us all to the lover of mankind Jesus christ!

I love (myself included) because He first loved me. Am I perfect? no! but that is why I claim a Lord who is! Jesus Christ is a TEACHER! when on earth his primary mission was to teach about God and HIS will and about the kingdom to come. He is still teaching and always will Teach our spirit that is why we got the gift of it so we as well as those who saw him in the flesh Can have a relationship with God and HIM. We need to learn abut Gods will , and it isnt like a package deal here is your life learn it. it is you got a life and then on top of it here is Gods will for it. Which do you chose to do? with or without His will? so all people will change i mean no one is still where they were at in any capacity when they were five or one years old. so we all change. that is a given. what these classes tryto provide is a tool to help you change and see where you really at and why. am i any less of a sinner than i was? YES i like to think knowledge and learning has played a role in who I am . So maybe i can love a little more than yesterday. Such is the service life BUT i can also sin and recognize the ROLE of why I need a Saviour and teacher to help me . with out HIM i am not any different than any other human or creation, but with this holy spirit I can meet the end result which is NOT my glory but rather Gods. when it becomes my glory it is the arrogance some carry in life.

The above posts are very good. The book and verse says "LOVE ONE ANOTHER" the idea of another and loving certainly says it is at least a two way street. abuse happens when Relgion gets this ideal confused and mixed in with "service"> etc. I can love the man with the gun in his hand and he can shoot me in the face while I pray for his utter soul to meet me in the kingdom. Then why was the need for a RISEN Christ to conquer Death on the cross? do not be foolish, we do live in a fallen world and ALL fall short of what God has in mind for how we are to live with one another. use some wisdom. have some knowledge. one can use to be a martyr for Jeasus and i believe it slaps all he did for mankind in his face once again. In the bible plenty of people died and it was at the will of God it was done. God didnt say look noah if you love them more they will then worship me and seek my will. NO ! He said they are evil. the love needs to be like a river or flowing and if they got some kind of huge stone that impedes the flow the water flows around the problem and continues. yes Jesus loves the unlovable HELLO we are all sinners so HENCE we are all indeed quite incapable of pleasing God or loving in the manner He designed us to be. YET JESUS did just that out of Obedience to the Fathers will for HIS life and his concern for mankind. Jesus didnt LOVE the assholes, he rebelled against many who had different ideal and opinions and openly rebuked them calling them the children of satan etc. the idea this world is our home or some how with our holy spirit we can change the formula of how it came to be in such a state is just stupid. our holy spirit guides and teaches whom we CAN love and who CAN love us back at any given momnet in time, such is the service God asks for towards one another, get it? today i might go out and say or do something that truly blesses another and another may do the same for me and i feel the love of GOD! how? by the spirit within each one of us! the next minute i may come upon a evil or crazed person or be in a bad mood myself and lie or hurt another that is LIFE for all of mankind and how easy it is to sin against one another and God. unbelievers have no awareness of the difference, those with a spirit within may recognize God or a spiritual situation with the end result being the GLORY OF GOD where as a person without faith just carrys on in another day, maybe with another pat on the back for doing a good deed for someone, making it all about their glory not the LORDS. this is how the religous people often work, pointing always to their redemptive work and deeds which clearly Jesus states does not get anyone into the kingdom . This is Jesus gig people you are still a sinner, but hopefully we have good days and can serve and love one another always seeking the will of God with the Gift that Jeasus sowed for our life eternal. it is a spiritual walk certainly not a flesh seeking do for me and i will do for you type of system religous leaders what us to follow. God did not create evil people He said his creation are GOOD! People can love people, do good to one another,people are absolutely amazing creations of the LORD!!! he loves us ALL. even my cat is capable of love and goodness. We are no different than an "unbeliever" other than by THE GRACE of God we happen to believe that JESUS CHRIS performed a mircle through the Father with the holy spirit gift for us. watch people who you think your better than because in a moment of time they too may have the gift of this holyness given FREELY by no work of yours at all. the problem is a spiritual problem and if we have a good God, we must have a choice of a bad god, or it would not be a choice to worship either of them. but yet it is and that is why the holy spirit works within us .