pond

Are you saying you believe anyone who doesnt believe in stf is a them? if yes is being a "them" negative or bad or something? what? I am gonna say God does a whole lot of not loving people in the bible, He has many "qualifiers". In my own nope do not love everyone not at all . God put people to death for what we could consider minor crimes today and many would not consider that as Loving? tazia define what you think love is.

JS has a teaching about relationships and doctrine in which he states he has struggled with this issue, I do not remember his point tho it is on his web page if your interested in hearing his position on relationship and doctrine. I read you to say your experience with them was not a good experience for a relationship. yes many times satan does cause those working in the field of God and His will to fight and agrue about many issues. I believe that is why forgivness and love is so powerful in the teachings of Jesus christ. When folks get hurt they become bitter and angry and find problems with one another maybe with "reason". it happens alot. The best I can do is limit my own sin as best as possible and move on with the Lord who will never leave or forsake me (or any of Gods beloved). I try to remember that I am loved by the blood of Jesus not by what any of us may or may not "do" for one another. Bible stories are written by people in the bible better able to work together to get the job done than others, it is nothing new. For me the clear who is right or wrong is never gonna happen till the return and we live in the kingdom because of the war zone we all face on a daily bases. it is all good anyways. I think the twi background really set the stage for in fighting and who is who importance in organizations and is common between those who believed the whole "As He is" line of crap twi instilled wrongly. Once at the rock of ages I would ask how are you today and the answer was "As he is". oh come on so next week your hanging on a cross for me? it fed the ego of many. I believe Jesus Christ IS God ONLY begotten Son, and the rest of Gods children should worship him as scuh, I have no problem with the trinity doctrine mostly because I have spoken to so many who claim it as doctrine and have no clue what it even means. I can clearly say Jesus Christ is not God and I believe I have some bible verses that wil concur BUT what is that to anyone who is not a bible student? not much, so I do not think it is all that important to those who do not want to know bible verses ok then. For the love of God I do not know I got into a life time of it my own self. I wish I was normal. to late for me. The doctrine of being born again is simple and without question the most important. The rest is like icing on cake to be enjoyed and cherished to have the type of life God wants for each of His precious children. We should know as christians the Father would love us to learn about him by study but how that plays out in each person is up to Jesus He is the only teacher we need .

" truth as what they define it to be" is what every person believes tzaia . Each person decides what is their own truth in life. Even if they want to blame the other guy. I need truth to be a base line of my relationships . You dont? what is then?

your last reply kind of explains your position. your rolled eyes say to me a disdain or in the very least a strong opinion. you may be like those you have issue with more than you think. When i am in discussion i do not think the other party should or may have to "learn" anything i just talk and love and listen and learn and add my own view if it is cherished as a giving of self. See the stf people have made a vocation of teaching others the information they have. They provide answers for folks who want to know their work. They have pride in their work and anyone who has pride (not a bad thing) naturaly stands behind their work. I believe it is the choice of every man to decide if the information will work for them . I see no need for them to advertise to those who want to debate thier ideals that seems like a waste of time for everyone involved doesnt it? If you want to buy red meat why would one find issue with the man who owns the fish store?

Well I know for my self as a christian I would not switch to another God. So Im not switching religion either. Many christians would consider that faith. Jesus Christ reveals his self to christian actualy to all men, We always have a choice to seek or to know or to worship . to obey or not is the whole crux of being a christian really. I am educated many christians have great knowledge of scripture, it isnt all about academics and book nlearning. it is spiritual. God asks us to examine our life on a daily bases if we are to know the lord as King of King and chapters are written about how christians are often perplexed and confused and just plain old wrong. such is knowing Him. Only a fool claims he/she knows anothers true heart and how they think, that is why we worship God really because as the creator only He can make our life whole. Only He knows who we can be for Him and what we truly believe. DG is a DR. isnt he? regardless of his educational background , the bible clearly states and Paul testifys for his own life the "rigors of academia " is what had him murder hundreds if not thousands of people who chose to follow Jesus Christs teachings atthe time, the LORD taught him a different way to learn in a very spectacular manner did he not? kind of blows being subject to the rigors of academia out of the water if you chose to read the bible storys about that. my point is God is able to proclaim truth to his people and needs us to chose to believe it or not on a personal level to change the world and to give others a chance to live forever with the Father and His Son in the kingdom. the purpose of a christian is examined by our ability to know Him and his way. How that is accomplished is written for each to read and for each to experience god is not a book but life itself. We get to know one another by what we write here at GS it is the same with the bible we each have the ability to learn about God in many forms in life. I do not chose to engage in your war with stf, but honestly if I read in a book that the moon is made of green cheeses I would not give it "thoughtful consideration" I believe every person gleans from information what we process with our own intellect . That is exactly why we have schools. because some things have been proven to be true and others false and is it not the will of every mand to decide for their own self what that may be? or you can be in a dream world and pretend everything is just what your next thought may be that is not exactly the rigors of academia is it? Different schools of thought in the world you bet ya!!!! that is why life is so great!

I also have no desire to be right. I see a difference between being right and truth. the bible speaks of truth and God highly favors truth the "being right part is a cut and dried situation only one is Jesus christ. I can have my truth and still listen effectivly to others and their truth it is really what raocks my world. DG is an academic star or in the least a wanna be star as is most "teachers" and those who proclaim learning academics as their life style. knowledge of scripture is his claim to fame and not position sake because he believes it was the work of the academics of the bible that prove his status as a truth seeker. in discussion about God or the bible I can maintain my faith in what I believe to be true and still find others views awesome as far as teaching I only engage when the water is cool and then only with love in my heart for my own lessons .

John is not a spring chicken maybe he retired to enjoy his bride!

know what? Subway has actualy more resturants than Mcdonalds at this point in time! Subway can set up in store fronts and small locations hence it actualy has MORE stores than the mcdonalds resturants. Mcdonalds still has far more sales .

my supervisor used to teach a class on what we do for a living. He now has the oppurtunity to do the work he studied and taught for years. He is the first to admit he can not do it, he fails, and is unable to maintain the load much less complete the tasks in a timely manner. my point is this not common amoung those who claim to teach? they can say but not do . a buddy who works side by side with this boss often says to "us" the common folk "if you have something to say, say it." I consider him, but he does use his alliance with the super to be lazy ( good for him), the bible does also consider those who teach as being judged more than average as well. For myself today with the resources available and such a mighty LORD I see no reason to strive with academics of scripture, I think stf is a nice resource particularly truth or tradition web site. most of it is free although all onthe web which many may not have access. I firmly believe what I do is important although many can not "feel" that truth, (until I do not do it). Is this not the reason we have roles and parts to play in life? I do not know theses guys on a personal level but I know my own players in life and the attitudes we generate such is the condition of humanity in life is it not ? Why the Lord commands we love and forgive as He does us I believe . takes the focus off what each thinks he can accomplish or fail with. otherwise we can all just peck one another to death.

STF has a magazine titled Sower and this months lead article is about " character counts" it says we can not seperate a persons character from his gift from God. I think it is an excellent article. Vince F. son has a radio show saying it is possible to lose salvation after being born again. STF particularly jal has spoken out in a teaching with very strong words against that type of thinking and still says dispensation isthe only truth. my point is the spin off groups are changing their own ideas about what the bible means. I find it interesting and at times it still unsettles my cult mind set I battle. i have gotten to the point inmy own life that God isreal and bigger than any religous belief system and the Lord hosts who He only will.

It is rough tho here in the apple town. I have a position that does not require a college degree , out of 11 staff we have two master degree's and 6 of us have various other degree's that leaves three without any 'higher" education and they have all been here over thirty years each. We need them the most actualy! Although it is not a job requiremment, the post states no degree needed, the director interviews graduates first . We are just idiots for the state. Some feel well I went to school for this and must do that only. good luck. real world will tell you different. I actualy have been offered a position in what I went to school for, much less money, unsecure psoition and other factors told me to turn it down. I talk with those actualy "doing" the work I went to school for and they are most miserable and afraid, Im happy with my choice and I do not think I would have gotten this job without the degree opening the door. In my psoition one must work for two years before they will hire you.. weeds out anyone in it for a alternitive reason. probably why we get paid much more. In human service they fly in and out like the wind, I do not want to live like that . This is why so many move back in with mom and dad post graduation , a very unstable economy.

This made the news because it is ridiculas. I live and work for the state she is looking for work in, IT is BOOMING are you kidding me ? seriously. hello ? this is New York . enough said. New York is the finance capital the leading state in medical technology all we do is IT. ANY other major and I could see her struggling to find work but IT always has openings everywhere the district I live in has several openings all the time. This is a small to medium city in size. Sitting in a mouse maze for 8 hours a day is premium in New York. IT and the medical field are in dire need of workers. She must have body odor or something.

Krys your right it was hot. I was at school I also will never for get it. The entire school a least a couple hundred sat in the hall way on the cold floor in the heat. no air conditioning in the school then and I guess they had only one tv, cause we packed in the entire hallway. I remember the teachers looking at all of us like they wish to God we would all just disappear as they watched the TV... with such concern and focus we could do what we wanted... they could care less. Then they shouted watch this and we saw the man take a step and I remember Walter Cronkite crying and putting his head in his hands. As we left to get the bus many of the teachers stayed and just let us leave watching the tv many were crying. your right about watching the future Krys it gives us all hope to know our past and the progress or adventures we have made in mankind.

Recently I saw this in the off shoots of the way big time. concerning whether or not Salvation is conditional or not. Twi taught that once saved always saved romans 10,9 10 covered it for life. done deal no matter how much sin you did. Vince F and his group feels quite differently about this ideal and if you research his websight particulary his radio show with sean F you will hear they feel it has to do with works as well. I lost it when I heard John Lynn go crazy nuts and refuted the idea in his teaching to the youth, He said "he has good friends in NY who are wrong"..... I know he is speaking about Vince and his group and he sounded so sad and crazy over the doctrinal differences. he has a real need to be right in this teaching. . it was one of those ....ing contests men do when they have to much to drink . I always thought it was not about doctrine and right and wrong and a competition between the off shoots you know love and all that.. not so, do the research and you will see some heavy serious lines drawn even from folks from the same twi. I felt so sad after this learning really i did all it said to me is how far removed both groups are from loving one another as Jesus says to do first and fore most.

it is funny you say it that way Tazia. Since letting go of the need to control what others may believe about God or the bible, doctrine has become more important to me. I think listening and hearing others allows me to truly trust my own learning and worship.by allowing the freedom of choice to grow and be free in others It allows me to love what I believe in more than ever,

When I was involved in twi and then the off shoots I thought it was right to be right. that God needed me to take a stand on the truth of the bible and manifestations etc. not now i really want to hear what others have spiritualy what they think God is to them and I listen to them and see if it can be an idea i can relate to. I do not think they are devils or wrong. maybe I do not understand but it is ok with me. I have zero need to correct anyone on what they think the bible may mean in any area. If they ask me what I thinki give them mine knowing i could be as wrong as the next gal or guy. I allow my friend Jesus to be the lover of mankind He was born to be in my life and seek to show others His Love without the idea that it is all about me. big difference.

This type of post is why I think grease spot is a cool forum. only those who walked the walk and talked the talk can get this . lol lol. give this to any other christian even and they wouldnt get "it". still special are we not? he hee

As far as doing "what was right" or is right. All I can say is hahahhahaha I try, but fifty MF years and let me tell you allI do is fail down and get back up. I freely admit to being a mess. that is the reason I wont deny god mostly. and when I do think I am on top of the world or beaten to death on my last breath I just remember my one and only promise to god that I wont deny HIM as real. my life in a nutshell quite simple really.

I didnt know it was right. AFTER I realized it was a most HOly God that told me something to keep me safe. I went to the leaders and the person (my twig coordinator) and sought consel. I had just taken pfalI didnt know anything by their standards. Yet god did chose to tell me . but I refuse to listen. The cost was very high in my life waysider and I often wonder IF the bad had not happened if I could or would never deny God today. I never would have seen or known the mircle of the deliverence that is for sure . so God is a mystery god to me with all my whys. no I guess when I feel as you say like beating myself up I just remember God did tell me, and delivered me anyways even tho I didnt listen to HIM. and that is a good thing not a bad thing. something Ihave lived with all my life. The fact I was healed and delivered is the very reason I refuse to blame the people of twi for maybe not being to hear me or trust God. Because I was and could be the same . getting better I hope. but I still wont deny Jesus is real and the only able Saviour for me.

I like this topic. I also feel sad about the stories I have heard about folks who have become angry and heart broken against God, Loat faith, doubt in prayers and deny hope because they had been convinced God spoke to them in an area of their life and it all turned to crap and bit them bad . some blame God for NOT telling them what to do others blame God because they think God misdirected them or allowed them to be hurt. I will tell you an experience I had One time God told me a fact about a person, it was a culturaly very bad fact, unbelievable really and with all the do not think evil speak in twi should have never been told. But God absolutely told me just like a person sitting next you at a table in aconversation I heard the words. and I prayed and I asked God why and what the hell was wrong with me, so I went to the person and in this type of fact every normal would just deny it and I would have been shut up . But I had prayed you see and I was humble so when I asked them if it was true, they didnt deny it. I believe christ was with us in that conversation and truth was up held. I was shocked, so went to the limb coordinator and they are the ones who kicked my azz and threatened me with all kind of fall out if I ever repeated what I only thought i heard and it was all a lie for certain. At the end of the day I denied God talking to me, and went with the twi program....... and paid a huge price for trusting in what the people told me. I mean the bible the leaders and all my fellowship told me I was wrong. and of course the old I was forgiven and have YOU never sinned in YOUR LIFE guilt trip was applied when I actualy asked the person God told me something about. At the end of the day I am still being condemed for trusting the wrong people in my life by my own self on a bad day and by others on a worse day. Jesus SAVED me me out of the circumstance believing a liar got me into by a clear miricle chain of events no less impressive than the parting of the sea. honest to God . As I lay on my bed and prayed DEAR God if you get me out of this I willl never ever deny you are real. HE DID and I hold true to my declaration that God is real even losing very cherished friends and family members over the fact I refuse to deny God is real. no it has not been enough to make my life as wonderful and blessed as some feel a believers life should be. my life has had plenty of misery because of that fact God told me and I ignored even 30 years later. and as far as I know He has not spoken to me since. So yes god talked to me. I also wish I had a line of commucation that was certain and sure in times of trouble. I do not. but I know god is real and answered my prayer when I said it wasnt HIM telling me the truth that day. and that to me is a real enough God to hold to the one and only promise I have ever made to God and kept even on a bad day. He is real. and what the he!!! that means I do not know yet it has been my life now and is all I got.

that is a good question. He says to me I love you . How can I tell? I never would have made it to middle age without thinking He must. didnt say I was right just what I think. In fact might be wrong but then it leaves me to think I must be the only one who loves me and it just doesnt work for me.

ex I feel my entire life has been censored. better days are coming. um does anyone know when?

I love what you wrote. TWI was people , the bible says people for the most part are not good being children of satan and all. Holy spirit makes the difference as we seek to fellowship with the LORD. the whole "out of fellowship concept oh no oh no a natural man .... stay away evil in and of the world..was evil thinking and shot the love of God to hell itself in twi. The purpose of Jesus was to save mankind NOT to hate . So the competition became to be "as he is" ONLY. anything less and your dog turd for the moment till you "get in fellowship". I want the names of those who decided who was in or out of "fellowship". what a butch of crap. that is how love turned into hate and people became robots to those who decided they were the ones who knew the LORD better than the rest and "protected" them. I say we all build an ark together .

I believe everyone has a line of persecution within. If a group of folks decided to worship "satan" next to the christians and parked in their area or something would they make some phone calls? (for God of course) shhhhhppt. I believe that is why the bible says to live peacefully with ALL MEN. As a christian I do not fight flesh and blood. Is their right and wrong in the world and should we take a stand? OK just do not make the "stand" one of persecution towards others. People forget Gods mercyis to mankind as they sing Praises to Him, and often become self righteous for their cause. The witness is bad when the neighbors get angry, yet how many times have we told to rejoice in our trials and tribulations knowing it is because we love God|? God or our own selfish desire to live unpeacefully with others and bully our beliefs on others? that is exactly why christians are called hypocrits.