pond

yes dooj If A says b did something to A that is first hand testimony and a OPINION can be formed on whether anyone chooses to believe if it is a true statement or NOT. WD agruement is never going to end because VPW is dead and in the same voice no one is able to prove what they say is true or not because vpw is dead. get it? it will never end. it is a choice to believe what is written here or not . But I think the issue is also all theses folks who are in a position to say I have heard it said by many poster countless testimonies about sexual abuse so i think he is a sexual abuser . and then they got nothing not even those "with testimony" to back up their base line opinion. Like Mark has asked repeatly it would be very good if all these "first hand testimonys were accessible on a certain page or thread and then the common ground could be laid out for everyone to form an opinion on what has been "already told", by those claiming to be victims. I have not seen any such page so the confusion will continue to run rampant UNTIL such a reference is made. it would also save the victims from having to repeat their story. this could be a place where they could write down what happened to them and why they feel it is important to be heard. without the agruement. but no such place is on this forum. It is just the weary world of the same posters getting into the same debate about a subject that is NOT clearly documented , so how can it ever end?

exactly

He didnt write it decades after they died they knew Paul and Paul knew them they were in real time and place not invisabe posters without a name on the world wide website. if you can not figure out the difference well then have at it. compare bible stories and fantasy world all you like.

Paul was face to face with those he accused .

he was comic of sorts, I guess, I think some took his fly as a means to distract from the seriousness of some of the threads and took offense. Grease spot has gotten to a point any opposing side or even questioning of the statement of some posters is going to make it difficult for "new" posters. I really do not think some of you can see it that way because this has been your areana for so long and are so entrenched in your mission or position that the problem of how it appears or presents itself to anyone not so involved in the threads may see it just doesnt matter or you can NOT recognize it . posters here are so familiar with one another it has in and of itself become its own party . posters ee the party and how it is played and see infighting and stupid agruement amoung the same ol same old and look no farther. I use bumpy as an example of a new comer not ever really being accepted (he did try to post and fit in) so he is gone. I know I know you all have reasons .. who am I to say what you guys want to comlain about ? but that is the outside learning Dooj. The posters here have their reasons and that is good enough. anyone willing to give it a go can clearly see the risk even if the regulars can not.

Some will believe some will not. granted. but to asume that a poster loves worships or adores vpw or lcm (what ever type of word you want to use) just because he questions what a poster writes on an internet is wrong. It is an unspoken rule that if one likes the way this is an antii way site and it wont be welcomed. clearly . barely tolerated and the point of this website is to prove that thinking false. those are the unwritten rules. ask bumpy and many others how they learned that. I think many got to thinking that the way was evil after they came here and heard the sexual abuse stories. ok for them. but some chose not to believe "the testimonys"or are just not interested in reading about them, so the question is does all of grease spots honor ride on that alone? I think greas spot has more to offer than the constant fights and complaining amoung certain posters being the center of attention . I think grease spot has alot of very accurrate information about twi that can not be disputed. But this never ending cat fight stops some from seeking that info . so

Bramble conduct really I think that is good in theory but that is what the mods have tried and tried and why pawtucket is asking for suggestions. socks it may take longer than a month for this place to self destruct.

I think it is middle age or being in a cult that told you how you must think for so many years that the outcome for people is to not be trusting of others. Consider the platformhere it is a PUBLIC open forum . If the faithful posters who are life long here want to believe everything they read here fine for them. I hear those concerned saying it for the ones who have not participate in this cat war for years it is those to weak or feeble that have these long lost stories to be be told , the idea is presented to protect them. 25 years after vpw has died. hello? so make a certain thread for that. easy really. But that is NOT the issue the problems arise it is the same old same old posterS trying to bid for more and more and MORE space to POST their position amoung GS. it is a power play amoung players mostly. What can you do to stop that? Well keep trying to have the other recant their position and keep on hurting and fighting and getting worse . or boot one thought process out in favor of the other. up to Pawtucket really. Weird thing is after awhile of reading the script of this game it is just plain boring and dismissed as nonsense from both points of view. so who wins? I think it is middle age or being in a cult that told you how you must think for so many years that the outcome for people is to not be trusting of others. Consider the platformhere it is a PUBLIC open forum . If the faithful posters who are life long here want to believe everything they read here fine for them. I hear those concerned saying it for the ones who have not participate in this cat war for years it is those to weak or feeble that have these long lost stories to be be told , the idea is presented to protect them. 25 years after vpw has died. hello? so make a certain thread for that. easy really. But that is NOT the issue the problems arise it is the same old same old posterS trying to bid for more and more and MORE space to POST their position amoung GS. it is a power play amoung players mostly. What can you do to stop that? Well keep trying to have the other recant their position and keep on hurting and fighting and getting worse . or boot one thought process out in favor of the other. up to Pawtucket really. Weird thing is after awhile of reading the script of this game it is just plain boring and dismissed as nonsense from both points of view. so who wins? RR I think it is public anyone can sign up and post here from the public it is not like any back ground checks are done to see if your really who you say you are or even if you have ever been involved with the way. It is an open site that any one with internet access can view .

Dr. Rocky who is diagnosing, maybe it isnt lack of "empathy" maybe is the fact He doesnt agree with the testimony as being a true statement. this is a public Internet forum where in anyone can write anything they chose, to assume everything written on a public internet forum with ZERO checks or balance is just silly and niave. Maybe a new rule could be. Believe all Sexual stories written within this forum without regard to the areana, and only use personal attacks and threats itowards those who question the integrity of an open public forum being used as a platform .

Now IM in for it. So Rocky is telling OM to leave if he doesnt like it here. This is a personal attack. do I care? Am I going to report it? NO and NO. Rocky says "the enitre act of challenging someones personal testimony is abusive" and yet is that \EXACTLY what he is guilty of in this post towards OM? BUT we like Rocky Rocky feels entitled and Rocky can keep pace with the number of posts he writes . I see the problem do you. no it isnt rockys or OM position it is how the posters relate and converse with each other here. What would happen if a minority opinion TOLD a " victim" or somone relating their story to "stop or leave" AS Rocky is demanding of OM? I bet that little mod button would overflow then.

You said "reporting inappropriate comments" Is this not a personal opinion a call based on how you feel about what the other poster said? something you disagree with. In the rules it says disagree all you want... but do not make it personal.. the issue is some do not like how the other comments or disagrees with them and in their mind it is wrong. it isnt wrong it is within the rules and guide lines. I think some on this site want to say they want freedom of expression but only when it comes to their own opinions. and if a point is made that oposes their position then it is labeled and attack or abuse.

When poster become frustrated and angry about what the other poster has written, words like ATTACK and abused are used to describe the fight, it is like the child who says BUT BUT he pulled my hair first... it can not end Untill ALL are aware of the consquences, and the one who is crying fowl is often times in the mix of having to be right so thick as a motive they can not see their own little slap within the discussion. Some believe they are being attacked if the other disagrees with their position on a topic. Everyone thinks what they say is right and will fight to the end to say it. Some of these posters are entrenched just stuck and this is it for them the place to call it as they see it to be. I guess the only answer is to decide well IM with THAT CAMP and get together to fight the enemy! So the fighting is in the ranks itself. yes it is just like twi. VPW has been dead 25 years , i myself doubt the theory of the line of people waiting for grease spot to calm down with its in fighting to declare it a safe place to discuss the past. my opinion. could be possible. A seperate protected forum just for them without opposing views seems simple enough. But to pick and chose who is using personal attacks who is "abusive" within the regular long time posters would eliminate nearly all of the most read posters on this site.

Pawtucket I read that you want to be sensitive to a "testimony" of a victim story about an incident involving the way, and your particularly concerned about "new" posters or posters who do not have the ability to " voice " their ideals as strongly as a poster who has used this forum for many years. A person without the ability to conteract the opposing view may want to think again about this forum as a platform . I do hear your concern and eagerness to give a platform. that is cool Yet the extreme is groucho desire to see all "apologists not express their view. So it would have to be censored. Yes limited in some way. Why? Because as you said "we are not going to get along". So if your interested in keeping all views on this site, my suggestion is have a topic box that says NO other view points allowed or some such rule. you would need to move new topics to that topic area like you do move stuff to the soap area. You know best how to write the rules on what type of policing your looking for . As far as the same old same old posters who do have equal strength or "voice" and years and years of battle in their trenches dug so darn deep it is imposible to make them stop... Well they could use that forum and stop complaining of being attacked by their opposing mentors. will it work? Only if those who want to post here and put "testimony" or storys want it to work. I see a problem because these discussions often do not begin as a testimony of sexual abuse but TURN INTO that subject when certain posters join the discussion and bitterness and anger of past encounters play a role and the entire thread dismisses its self to their own personal problems with one another. They change the thread into a mess and it is BOTH "sides" of the story doing it. The motive isnt to be "heard" it is to be right and that is a big difference in motive on how one can be "victimized" in a thread. I think in a sense it gives license for some to abuse others by playing the victim card to the point of not allowing others to be heard just to generate strife with another poster. so I think it goes both ways in some threads esp. amoung long time posters. The solution I see you manufacuture is they get sent to the soap box which is really where they belong because I also believe it is a personal agenda between certain posters. Those not in the "Big League" do not fall into this group so a seperate topic center policed by your own rules that defines the borders of the discussions abeit censored and limited may work.

OK I will talk about the elephant in the room. What do you believe would be allowed if a poster does not believe the testimony of another poster? GS is a group of close knit indiviudals who have been involved in this areana for many years. Naturaly ties and allegience and friendships and relationships are formed along with opinions . To get along often means going with the flow to not cause "divisions within the ranks" to be agreeable with the general concept of the site. to try to understand the other point of view. Emotions are involved because this isnt a fact finding case or a court of law. WD it isnt. It is a public web site. So I ask what if as much as it may freak some of you out a poster doesnt agree that another poster is telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Poster align with those they know will agree with them and comfort or side with their view. I think the apologists are fewer in number as you call those who do not think everything written here is the gospel for all. I know most want those to believe their friends and fellows, because they do and maybe even once didnt but changed their mind and feel better now. now back to the elephant what if what if some do not believe the testimony of a poster here? if it about a vote on who thinks one poster is telling a true story or not. The apologists lose. clearly. those who believe they are right assume everyone see it that way, or can be convinced someday to believe it. What if that doesnt happen par for the course ? do ya just shoot the elephant and leave the decay all over the site? eventualy you will have a hate site without differing opinions .

How people reply react or sell their "frames" is up to them is it not? In your example you said a MOG assumed you would give him a discount on the frames.. did he ask? or did YOU assume it was a need to make him happy? Where you to afraid of his ego to say no? etc. their in is the issue I think? People have often desired a KING, a person to respond to their personal issues to give them answers to guide them to consel them. WE have only ONE messiah and it is Jesus Christ. Do I think some leader can and do take advantage of people? yes, the abuse of position has been an age old problem in life. Seek God and all these things shall be added etc... At some point I believe each person must say who their Saviour is.. Is it christ or JOHN LYNN etc? it is often blamed on a man/woman/leader when pain or strife or issues because it is more difficult to say i didnt take control and/ortrust God or my own faith. It is easy to say I was led wrong,he/she said i should do that and now I am in trouble so it is their problem not mine I refuse to be responsible because i did as he told me to do. Or I was to afraid of their worldly power as a leader or "MOG" to do what was right. Jesus says he is our friend , In my life Jesus is very recognizable as a force and nature that abides. God speaks a great deal about how man can let HIM and each of us down with sin ego etc....WHY are we shocked at what a mess we can make with one another? WE ARE humans. As far as John Lynn making your dream for his life without a "lecturn" in front of him come true,, I believe like youand all those who know the LORD he answers the call of Jesus christ not what a man or woman may think is best for him. I also believe at the end of the day that is who we all will answer to .

I agree doojable, Yet I ask you to consider the fact. John is NOT alone in the mind set you describe in the above post. As "chosen" ones. Many christians believe this concept. the fact is the bible itself gives it some credance. The idea that I think twi promoted that was cult like is ONLY their people had the gateway to admitance . I am not convinced STF or John Lynn believes they have the ONLY avenue to this mind set. . Yes I think he sells his material and to be successful one does have to believe in what they have got , but at this point I think John recognizes TRUTH( or insert bible teachings as you like) as a God given ability to His people not just the organization he has founded and worked for. I really do admire John S.and John L, in the fact they have comminted their entire lifes to what they do as far as bible study and teachings. If their egos are fed by those who desire to purchase their work; I ask you is that wrong? I know most folks desire to be rewarded for the work we do. dont you? I think at times we all can get bloated with self importance; I happen to believe it is God almighty who strikes down the idolitry that lives within all of His children. I also happen to believe John S and John L are not an exemption to this fact of life. IN the mean time I make no judgements on how one chose to live out his service to mankind or to God, because each are called and blessed as individuals . Jesus is our Saviour not one another.

In 1987 he made all those angry at twi happy with his letter of relating to the trouble in twi. In 2008 he understands the folks who never subscribed to his 1987 thoughts about twi and asks them to join in as well. I would say He is on a mission and he is serious and comminted. It is his job always has been always will be. I do think he is now and was in 1987 speaking John Lynns truth in Love . I think we were in a cult and I can NEVER shake it and Mr. Lynn is just a notch or two more willing to try to help us all. God bless each and every one. What a strange ride it has been .

not angry. not yelling at you dot Matrix. A "socialpath" as you consider is not going to change his behaviour because your educated. so I guess what your saying is if you educate yourself enough you can avoid people doing bad things that victimize you? ok i will buy that good luck with your mission. it just seems to me most "social paths " as defined in this thread are not being very much changed or stopped by anyones education about their personality . the head line stories of that one that did that crime are almost always AFTER the fact. no one writes geez larry here has all the traits and the personality of a "social path" with any amount of education and can anyone predict his next behaviour? maybe but does it change anything at all? i believe that is why the paper said to move away from the relationship and not try to force change. but one social path to you may be the great company man or husband or wife and parent to another. it is about each person taking responsibility for their own life as oldman states. if you think somone is a social path you cant change anything about him/ her but you can take responsibility for how you chose to interact with them.

Im not angry. it is a fact for most of human history most people have not had a book to read from because frankly only the clergy could read and write. was God on vacation did widom escape all the masses? do you believe only the clergy and those granted he ability to read "knew God?" i think knowledge puffeth up is like this I know more about something than you so im better . like I can drive a car you cant im better than you for example. I sit the president at work so Im better than you. puffed up about who or what they know. that another may not today we call it "stuck up" . I do not believe it has anything to do with how much bible verse you know. or dont. I can read you cant god loves me more is knowledge puffed up and it is not a good thing to think about oneself or another. our history as disciples of christ has often had a heirarchy involved and if your wise we still do today we respect "certain" steriotypes and amounts of education for example. people say well he is a dr after all he knows better than me... and the dr say well I am a dr. after all i do know better than everyone eles! but ask the dr. to change the oil on his car and he is lost. that is puffed up, see? i mean it is Gods will that we have talents and skills and abilities for sure, just do not get to the point your puffed up. a relative of mine showed me this the other day he is arrogant and racist and when he gets all prideful about his house he says stuff and he "puffs up" i can SEE it with my eyes. All full of what he thinks he "knows". he knows he has his house and his life and doesnt really consider the other guys position. a puffed up person is stuck up because they believe they have this knowledge that no one has when in reality everyone eles may very well have the same "knowledge but not believe they are better than anyone for it but rather use it to serve and love one another as Jesus comands. Im not angry. it is a fact for most of human history most people have not had a book to read from because frankly only the clergy could read and write. was God on vacation did widom escape all the masses? do you believe only the clergy and those granted he ability to read "knew God?" i think knowledge puffeth up is like this I know more about something than you so im better . like I can drive a car you cant im better than you for example. I sit the president at work so Im better than you. puffed up about who or what they know. that another may not today we call it "stuck up" . I do not believe it has anything to do with how much bible verse you know. or dont. I can read you cant god loves me more is knowledge puffed up and it is not a good thing to think about oneself or another. our history as disciples of christ has often had a heirarchy involved and if your wise we still do today we respect "certain" steriotypes and amounts of education for example. people say well he is a dr after all he knows better than me... and the dr say well I am a dr. after all i do know better than everyone eles! but ask the dr. to change the oil on his car and he is lost. that is puffed up, see? i mean it is Gods will that we have talents and skills and abilities for sure, just do not get to the point your puffed up. a relative of mine showed me this the other day he is arrogant and racist and when he gets all prideful about his house he says stuff and he "puffs up" i can SEE it with my eyes. All full of what he thinks he "knows". he knows he has his house and his life and doesnt really consider the other guys position. a puffed up person is stuck up because they believe they have this knowledge that no one has when in reality everyone eles may very well have the same "knowledge but not believe they are better than anyone for it but rather use it to serve and love one another as Jesus comands.

So we have met the enemy and he is us eh? look every adult pretty a much knows crazy people are in the world. and you know what we all have regrets and wishes we had not hurt that person after we realized what they were going through and the choice we made . It sounds like you replaced the word devil spirits with the word socialpath to me, so lets just look for those evil "social paths" or is it devil possesed people? and beware they are out to get ya! very cult like thinking and para noid and inclusive living your life of knowing better than the rest about the "others" the bad people. Jesus wants us to be aware of evil in the world but to gentle about do not stress it just trust God and live a happy life your own self. what good does it do you to label that person as a social path. and that one isnt . Do you feel better about your self? We can only control our own behaviour. Also every person has their own breaking point.. I may be sane today but mess with somone I love and I could go off that social path devil spirit cliff on ya! just being honest. why ?because of feeling strong feelings. to protect somone I love. plenty of folks are in prison because they cared or loved so much about somone they went crazy and behaved in a mnner worthy of punishment. why do you spend your day thinking your going to educate yourself about who is crazy or who isnt? what does it do for your life and living? everyone knows the saying "but he was a good neighbor and friend a real family man too! why would he do that? the students and people shooting up places do not have a personality disorder neccesarily it is humans reacting to the stress they put their mind under. i do believe if every person took care of their own business and stop harrassing others about what might be wrong with them or guessing about who is who is the standards of society we would all be able to be more peaceful

I have children and my children have children. guess what they do? they want to know and find and seek and understand EVERYTHING in their world. Why is a very popular question. I dislike people who have this unseen spiritual awareness or knowing and deny the facts. like suffering from an ailment and saying well only God knows what to do now aint much peace in living is there? or on the street living on a curb because you rely on Gods knowledge to get a job. give me a break. The bible clearly says we are NOT TO BE as children that we are to grow up in our understanding of HIM and one another and where we live. that is the wishful thinking of insanity and disfunction taught in churches. like you have that magic wand God given even that can make "dreams come true" like in disney land. As little children means in the context of love and trusting God as a Father.. yeah we can do that. but get potty trained first get it? BUT GROW up first. not as a child we are to be responsible for much and we can not do that without knowledge of the world we live in and hopefully for me the bible. Gezz how many kids do you know went into some of those famous battles written in the bible or could lead scores of folks across many lands to what BUILD communities and lands and farms and shops. Paul was a saddle maker where did he learn that? he went to school and interned under a person that takes knowledge of a skill . be real . God is real and He knows were we live and it isnt in some ignorant insane world of making a magic because he can. It is a relationship with the LORD, obeying and loving and trusting with the knowledge we need to survive LIFE. The bible says do not steal. simple fact yet if i never read that or knew that i would be stealing away thinking God is ok with that. so i read it and now im held accountable for knowing it. the bible is a large volume of rules and regulations and life style hints and helps, if you do not know them or have enough education to understand them what good is it?

I am upset about that as well. What right do they have? animals are considered "produce" like a cash crop. corn or soy beans. you know they are there for humans but when are we there for them it ends for them? they are not dependent on humans a horse given land and water that God provides the earth can can take of the life they want to live. a human needs a horse to make money to buy what he wants in life and to give him a famous name. this world is crooked.

my sister has a border collie what a lovely intelligent thinking dog. she is very very smart. I could gush about her she is almost human. about the stupid dog. tis true tho they are like the dumb blonde gals you hear about all fluff not much eles. all looks and fluff. cant figure anything out like a dumb blonde or a surfer dude type. hey some one would love them too! like you said.

When John Lynn was fired and began his own ministry he went about town asking people to tell their horro storys from the way. He played the role of being the one who knew best the troubles we have seen and now he was gonna save the day with his new and improved ministry. he knew better than come along as a bull in a glass shop as is his character and ersonality so he played it all for pity and compassion for the victims. and it worked he got much attention and ears to hear, nence money, people were so accumstomed to paying to hear what they should do they automaticly fell into line as the thing to do next. John Lynn knows how to play a crowd if I ever saw one he can sell. so then he left some out those who had less anger and just pain and confusion and lost in aworld without the way dictators. and they were in it to love people or worship them so he puts in the glip about how proud vpw would be. it worked , he caught many with that showing his softer side hehe of how in spite of his angry cross country unemployed trips to get the moeny to survive he still "cared" about the 'soul" of the ministry which bottom line was vpw. all the while stirring up those in discontent and pulling them in. you do not think he learned anything in all those years of faithful service? I know he did , plenty. enough to build his own ministry and support his lifestyle and do what he wanted to do.

Can we add in cats? ok? well look at him, just look at him. he has an eating disorder. paper you say? no he doesnt eat it just crinkly anything that sounds like a bag opening and you got a thirty pound beast begging like he has not had anything in weeeks. he knows words he knows food, eat, can yes as in canned cat food! and he knows the word store or grocery. if anyone says these words he howls, yes howls so i know that is am important word to him. like i do not know after two decades. do not try to advise me on just how to thin him down. it is impossible. he has a problem a serious problem . but on the plus side he is like an overstuffed teddy bear and is hysterical to watch run ! he runs side ways and tests spots before he jumps up to make sure it will hold him .