shortfuse

Yes, this is most to the point of what I was getting at. Over time, I am able to give less and less credit to TWI for any original thinking. Therefore, when I consider the current model of TWI (notably the latest model for the way class) I have to ask myself where they got their idea from. There is almost certainly some other group that they are using as a model for the continuance of a group, sect, NRM, cult, whatever, after the death of its charismatic founder. Scientology seems to be a model for this, although there are definitely other candidates.

As a side note, there was an HFC training video sent to the field circa 1999 that corrected this practice of prying into people's finances. It was said at the time that people were going to far demanding earnings info and exact debt figures. If people wanted help, we were to give it, but if they didn't ask don't go kicking the door in. I think HQ wanted to distances themselves from this behavior as if to say, "you didn't learn that from us." In reality, that kind of prying, overbaring, meddling "oversight" was learned precisely from headquarters, starting with the board of trustees.

I wonder sometimes if there is any connection between the Church of Scientology and The Way International. There was the deal a few years ago where TWI made a contribution to the COS run Cult Awareness Network. There was the reference to the book Cult Around the Corner, authored (oddly) by "The Board of Directors". COS is rumored to be very controlling, and secretive - another parallel. That's not a lot, but you know, just thinking... I was wondering if there are any other parallels, and if it is possible Rosalie could somehow be taking cues from their playbook.

OM, You seem to be talking about official policy, and others are describing how things actually happened regardless of policy. As I said before, LCM was so forceful these things were treated as policy even if they never were formalized as such.

Right. I should have said Advanced Class on The Way of Abundance and Power.

Last I heard, I think two couples or families live there. Donna lives in Founder's Hall.

Faithful abundant sharing was and is a requirement for attending the Advanced Class.

LCM threw out the numbers of 15% and increasing each year by a percent or two back in the late nineties. I think there is even an audio clip on greasespot with him ranting on about this very subject. As far as I know it was Craig who put 15% plus out there as the standard - not as a redefinition of what tithing means (tithe means "tenth"), but as a minimum for those who were disciples. He hammered it so hard it might as well have been a policy, but this was never actually the case. He quoted VPW as having taught from II Cor 9:6-8 that "sowing sparingly" was just above the tithe ("giving" starts after you have paid your debt, that is, the tithe) and "sowing bountifully" would be way above the tithe. I think this is where he brought in the at least 15% rationale.

Perhaps "Truth Needs No Defense" can be used in either light. I think WordWolf brings up a good point though. If truth needs no defense, it also stands to reason that "Truth Has Nothing to Hide" and "Truth Has No Fear of Questions". While the original statement may be true, it has been used as a means to cover error and indiscretion, and to sidestep or rebuff questions.

I disagree. There are plenty of examples of undue control and power being exerted, but this is not one of them. Bash on! Some of the remarks were pretty damn funny. But over all I think the criticism is petty and exaggerated. Bowing out, Nate

You are right about this. Another major source - older Corps grads who were dropped for one reason or another. A very small percentage are anything else.

No Tom, it's what I just told you it is. It's got nothing to do with a "TWI is your sufficiency" subliminal message, a money making scheme, or any other scheme as some of you seem to be able to find at every turn. It's just a collection of tapes with people sharing knowledge; a totally harmless, albeit totally low tech version of the type of info sharing that goes on all over the net. You think it's lame? Spend your $4 elsewhere! So the people running TWI are not up on technology. We all know that. Big deal. Let's start an Amish bashing thread if that is so important. There are many things of so much more substance that could be addressed (and of course do get addressed) here, that criticisms like these just come across as so much whining.

You guys are going on and on about nothing. The "Household Enrichment Series" were recordings from some of the better teachings the staff presented to each other over the past few winters. People spoke on all kinds of topics that they had some expertise or interest in. Some of the teachings seemed like they might be of value and interest on the field so they made them "available". Four to begin with a year ago, and apparently the interest was sufficient to add 9 more. It's not trying to compete with Google, or address deficiencies in education or parentage. It's just some folks on staff sharing what they know with others - nothing more nothing less. $4 per tape - Wow what a maniacal money making scheme! Good grief. The point is: who cares?

Thanks for clarifying dates - I remember now. :) I guess my assessment was wrong. I do seem to remember legal matters being a reason we needed to build back up the coffers depleted during that time. I was just wondering the legal stuff they were referencing at that time was actually the lawsuits from Allens and others. The time line suggests not, but on the other hand they almost had to know they were going to get their @sses sued at some point. Regarding the "revelation" to Craig I seem to recall it came up at the end too. He had to explain it to the whole ministry since he made such a big deal of the Corps needing to be full time. I'm pretty sure that "revelation" was one of the key reasons. Anyway, thanks for clearing up the timeline for me.

Interesting thought, Clam. I think the staff probably were afraid to tell Craig about how financially imprudent his decision was because he was a bully and he justified himself with "revelation". As if because it was revelation we could just believe our way through it. I think Howard knew better, but tried to make it work as best he could because the MOG said so. I wonder who eventually persuaded him to get "revelation" to reverse this disasterous course.

I don't know Seth. I'm derailing myself a bit here, but there were lots of stupid financial decisions under Craig's watch. Of the assets listed I'm not sure how much of that was tied up in real estate - it wouldn't surprise me if they had a cash flow problem. So many costly stupid things like 1) all Corps full time (Craig bragged, "Ernst & Young think we're nuts", as if that's something to brag about) 2) overnight ship STS tapes to get the "present truth" ASAP 3)bringing all of us together for state meetings ever month, often every week, geez there's a lot more than just that you could fault. Whether or not the Allen case was looming, it is just insane that they keep so many of us full time so long. I don't see control here, I see out of control spending. Today, you can't spend $300 without BOT approval. Big difference.

Was reading some of the docs on here on the gsc and it looks like my timeline may be a little off. Still I remember this biz about defending the Way against copy right infringement, etc. The real legal battles were self induced my the trustees, much more serious issues, and much more costly to the believers than suggested.

Thanks for the well considered reply, Lindy. Part of what I was trying to express is the struggle of identifying with the "c word" - people don't want to say it like they hate to say "cancer". You can rationalize it away for a long time, but when you slow down to consider the validity of it, it can for a time turn your world upside down. Also, I thought the title of this topic was funny.

Was anyone around here active Corps circa 1998? The Corps had been full time for about two years, and it was draining the bank. Emergency Expense Cutting measures were implemented like a pay cut for staff, and restrictions on any new purchases at HQ, and restrictions on couples conceiving children. If I remember correctly among the justifications given was that so the Way could have $$ to take legal action to defend its name. The implication being the defense of the actual name "The Way" or "The Way International" - trademarks or whatever. (Maybe this justification came up when the Corps went back to secular employment.) It ocurred to me recently that the legal defense they were preparing for was the Allen case even though we didn't hear of it until about two years later. Does anyone else remember the reasons above? It pains me enough to think that we stayed full time and sacrificed to try to cover LCM's foot and even more to think that there are couples who like missed opportunities to have families because of the bans on pregnancy.

VPW in PFAL. Is this a trick question? Was it B.G. Leonard? E.W. Bullinger? Karl Barth? I give up.

WG, Your story is shocking and utterly infuriating to me. I remember similar rhetoric coming from LCM on Corps Nights and maybe publicly, but it never occurred to me that someone would actually do that. I guess I took it as hyperbole, another extremely angry rant, but not real advice. It makes me want to find your old "leadership" and brake them down with a 2X4 in the WA back country. Absolutely insane and unconscionable.

Found it... the third and final evil is PHAULOS that's right, "Unproductive Evil" Interestly, there are only four occurances of this word in the NT. None in the church epistles. Not a lot to build such a strong case against people. How ironic, bore people to tears and then kick them to the curb for not showing enough enthusiasm. Also of note, there are 26 different word forms in the Greek rendered "evil" in the KJV. That's 23 more catagories of foot left to kick!

Wow! PFAL on DVD?! I was totally unaware. You can't even get current Way stuff on anything besides VHS.

It was commissioned under Craig. Dorothy Owens was not comfortable with the idea of writing a biography of her late husband. Instead it is more autobiographical of her and Ermal. It was compiled by her recounting anecdotes to someone who then helped her put it down in writing. (I think the Uncle Harry book was produced this way.) The idea was to have something for younger people and people newer to the ministry to learn about the early days, and about the founding trustees. It is not as thorough as Mrs. Wierwille's book. The best word to describe it is probably "nostalgic". It's told in the sort of direct way she had in conversation. It was released shortly before she passed away. (if I remember correctly.)

No not the only group that made contributions to self governance, and I'm not a history teacher, but I was thinking of the Mayflower Compact.