TheInvisibleDan

I recall just a few years ago calling up the Way bookstore on the phone trying to order some Aramaic materials, and being turned down because I was no longer on the list of obedient Waybots. I tried to reason with the girl on the line, and when I asked her to talk to someone else there - whoa, I could detect the sudden quiver in her voice -she sounded scared $hitless. Then she got huffy ("No you can't talk to anyone else!") and promptly hung up. Well at least now I understand (lol) - I wasn't aware of the extent of terror inflicted by the rabid "Emogene" she-beast. I hope that poor girl no longer works in the bookstore. I really felt sorry for her. Hey, "scared bookstore girl", if you're here - it's okay, I understand now. Danny

Thank you for posting this Roy. The Lord's last words on the cross here are very intriguing - and as "Aramaic" as the "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani" citations in the canonical gospels - and I think even more profoundly so, presenting an idiom in Jesus' own Galilaean dialect. And the Lord cried out, saying, My power, my power, thou hast forsaken me. Blowing the dust off Matthew Black's "The Scrolls and Christian Origins", concerning his comments under the heading The North Palestinian Origins of Christianity, p.81: I recall Simon Magnus was also called "the great power" in his neck of the sands (Acts 8). The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ by Levi ( 171:3) gives this clever take on the last words: And when the sun refused to shine and darkness came, the Lord exclaimed, Heloi! Heloi! lama sabachthani , (Thou sun, thou sun, why hast thou forsaken me?) I'm sorry, I lent my "Urantia Book" to my mother and can't look that up at the moment. :)--> Danny

ha ha ha ha ha ha they need THE ANIMAL.... it's purple.... Excie, is that one of them new fangled vacuum cleaners which don't require bags?

I used to love those annual sticker calendars, OM, the ones we got in the mail. Those were neat!

I'm guessing it's JAL who wrote or co-wrote it. On account of the lame-like humor spiced throughout. They need to replace the bag in their Bible vacuum. It's overfilled, and can't take in any more. Danny

My God, I am so thankful I didn't get married and raise a family until after I left the way. I was a "Mr. Mom" - I quit my job to stay home to take care of my kids (my wife earned 5-6X more than I had at the time) - it was a choice from which I haven't fully recovered financially, but damn it, it was well worth it. I was lucky to able to do that - I understand that today's warped economy oft requires the situation that both parents work (or even tougher, one parent if a single parent), placing them in the daycare dilemma, which I think may be another factor for the rise in child abuse throughout our society. It's tough being a parent nowadays, more so, I think, than it was for our parents. Don't vote for Republicans, dammit...

I enjoy good salad bars. They almost persuadest me to become a vegetarian. But in the words of another poster here (please forgive me, I can't recall who at the moment), some selectively sliced and ground "sacred cows" can yield some very tasty burgers. But I prefer to cook my own burgers upon my own stone,fire alter - often turning out much tastier and more nutritious than the homogenous stuff prepared at McChurches or Bible Kings.

But the term "Rapture" might also be viewed quite simply as a placeholder for the idea and/or interpretations thereof, whether it be ultimately decreed in one's opinion as "biblical" or not. In the same manner when the "Trinity" is under discussion, or "Nativity", or any number of other placeholder terms for areas and interpretations that may come to mind. I mean, if one brings up the term "rapture", a good many others will understand the essential ideas behind it, whether they personally subscribe to it or not. But if one proclaims the long-winded, "the gathering together," or "Happy Household Holidays", a good many never in contact with the Way subculture would most likely scratch their heads. Danny

Steve, CES is hardly unique in their pro-rapture stance, which appears quite common among a variety of fundamentalists and "Bible-believers". What fascinates me is the fact that some pro-rapturists and scripture-splitters, where elaborating their position , curiously arrive to "Marcionite" expressions without betraying so much a clue or awareness that Marcion even existed. How is this so? Someday I should post points from CES' "20 Reasons to Believe the Rapture" (or some such title) side by side with expressions by Tertullian. It's uncanny. I don't rule out that such a belief existed in antiquity, especially (as one who subscribes to the theory) the Pauline material first circulated -- and may have even originated --within Marcionite circles, where the expectation of a Good God removing His newly acquired "property" from the realm of the Demiurge - prior to the Just One commencing the "wrath to come" -- would not have been so out of place at all. Marcion's Good God was even depicted as a "robber" by his critics (perhaps something of a "Robin Hood" by followers), one who swoops down from the heaven into a world not his own to "seize" or plunder the property of the world lord. Perhaps it's no accident that "rapine" and "rapture" share the same Latin etymological root. I think there's a lot more research in this subject which remains to be done. I know I've hardly scratched the surface there. Danny

You're right,WW, it was brought up only a couple years ago - http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=9...8231#8886018231 How the time passes. Yesterday was our 15th year anniversary - it's hard to believe my wife and I have been "yoked" for 15 years. Danny

Perhaps if becoming new spiritual or astral beings, inhabiting a new realm, the pleasures of our former monkey bodies won't hold the same appeal or attraction to us? In which event, I may pass from this material realm through that hole in the ozone layer Matilda just mentioned...

I've heard this brought up somewhere else once before - perhaps at the old Waydale...

My view is developing closer to 4a - there's truth in everything. But I don't want to go to Chicago.

I would at least get my name on their mailing list again if they were giving away those little sticker calendars. Gosh those were neat.

Here's a work online that I think would make a fine addition to any "Orientalisms" collection. Interesting stuff. Certainly far more in-depth and entertaining than those tiny Pillai books I sold on Ebay last year. Danny

Jeff --I second Mr/Mrs? Laughing Jesus. Take a break and shoot the breeze with us for awhile. You're a good sport. BTW, thank you once again for graciously giving me a copy of "One God" awhile back. Even though I didn't agree with everything I read in it, it was an interesting read. It was very nice of you to give me a copy. Hope to return the favor someday. Danny

Compassion. I really can't think at the moment of any other more inspiring and universal manifestion of God's/Goddess' presence in the world, than when any person of any religion or non-religion reaches out and helps another human being, no matter how seemingly great or small. The bureaucrats at the DMV (lol). Though I'm sure there some compassionate people work there as well. But generally not among the license photographers. :)--> Danny

As all churches being the same, one Body, but each particular church/group/sect being a different "member"? I don't think it unreasonable in seeing it in that scale. The churches appear extraordinarily diverse even from Christianity's earliest childhood. I think in good part why Christians may digress on certain doctrines, and may continue to do so - i.e., on the topic of death, or in the Trinitarian-Unitarian debate, or in eschatology, etc., is because the source elements woven together into the patchwork of the New Testament writings themselves originated from diverse movements and communities , all of which, as today, did not always agree in their doctrinal perspectives. The efforts of the most adroit of editors and early theologians who worked on the NT canon could not entirely eradicate all the underlying differences. Much to any seeker's delight and reward. I'm actually under the opposite impression - that the number of atheists and agnostics is relatively small here. Are there really any more here to be found than with any other church or group? I don't think so, really. Danny

Coolwaters, Thanks for clearing that up for me. On black robes: It's funny, but I recall hearing back in '82 that 20/20 (or 60 Minutes? - one of those darn TV news mags) ran a feature on cults, which recounted an ex-way person's experience of folks wearing black robes and chanting... naturally I thought it was laughable nonsense at the time, but hearing waysurvivor's and now Evan's recollections,...whoa. Does anyone else here recall this news story? As I mentioned before, I had only heard an audio-cassette excerpt of it back in '82. If memory is serving me correctly, the episode of the black robes and the chanting were even dramatically re-created in the program. It would be interesting to track that show down now. Perhaps the "source" they used was an ex-way person who went to the same meeting as Evan? Danny

I'm curious, but why would that be regarded unusual? I suspect many sign up on this forum and don't jump in right away. I mean, I can only imagine that had I (and others) undergone the weird, bizarre experience described (at the age of 7 or 12 - whichever it was) that it would not be the kind of experience one would feel immediately comfortable or compelled to express in an open forum. Yeah, her experience sounds surrealistic, but given the other shenanigans going on in the Way, that may have sounded too weird to be true...it was a pretty screwed-up group....nothing would surprise me anymore. Danny

But in retrospect, now we can well imagine what went through the minds of some visitors who observed us speaking in tongues, even within the context of its orderly prescription. I bet they felt we were "pretty whacko" too (lol). But many movements share the practice of chantings and glossalalia. It's certainly more common than I knew years ago, in movements both ancient and modern. One need not wait another day to see "centrist beliefs" running through many religions, let alone among Christianities. Consider for example, a comparison of the parallel tales and sayings of Buddha and Christ: http://www.heartlandsangha.org/parallel-sayings.html and http://www.exoticindia.com/article/buddhaandchrist I suppose truth might be regarded as either a telescope or a microscope - but one may experience better success toward tracing "centrist truths" when simply approaching various scriptures and writings of varying beliefs with one's own eyes and heart. In any event, the second link - "Buddha and Christ- Two Gods on the Path of Humanity" - is quite remarkable. I found fascinating the mention of a legend that the cross of Christ was constructed from wood from Eden's "Tree of Knowledge". Which recalled another legend I read about, namely, that the place of the skull where Christ was crucified was also over Adam's burial place. Pretty "whacko" but cool stuff. :)--> Danny

A fine post, Abigail. Danny

ohhhh...this might be worth resurrecting "Washua Lo'Shanta" for this little enterprise.

A bad porno ("The Teacher's Special Cut") about two German shepherds named "Gift" and "Manny"? I say we go with Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog!

Mike - I think you should do a "PFAL Translation of the Bible", or "The Greatest Secret in the Planet Today!" Version, which you can piece and stitch together from scriptural citations from among Wierwille's works, including his "Literal Translation According to Usage" thingies, and even toss in footnotes from PFAL, or, if copyright issues arise, footnotes from Bullinger and Stiles. If you genuinely believe what you believe - wouldn't it make better sense to take the next bold step in the evolution of your peculiar faith, and produce a compact version of a "PFAL" Bible? Or perhaps even something of a "Companion Version" but one which incorporates Wierwillian notions.* Such a version is what todays seemingly attention deficit generation calls for. And Mike, I think you're the man to do it. Now sign off and get crackin' on that version! :)--> Danny * and doesn't simply cross out Bullinger's name on the cover. :P-->