TheInvisibleDan

Xena, Someone once told me that I didn't know how to handle compliments. I still don't know (lol). That's sweet of you. Thank you. BTW, your namesake is a great show. I have the first season on dvd. :) Danny

Goey, you spoke out of true Christian love here, and I am very appreciative of this. You are absolutely right - I oft forget that not everyone else has plunged into this area with the same obsession as I've had in the subject these past few years, though I hope the recent sensationalism surrounding the release of the "Gospel of Judas" will pick a few brains and spark anew some interest about what other early Christians believed. What a thrill it is to see a lost ancient Christian gospel come to light again, to hear again expressions such as the following: "When [Jesus] [approached] his disciples, gathered together and seated and offering prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [ he ] laughed. The disciples said to him, "Master, why are you laughing at our prayers of thanksgiving? We have done what is right!" He answered and said to them: "I am not laughing at you. You are not doing this because of your own will, but it is through this that your god will receive thankgiving." The disciples said to him: "Master, you are[...] the son of our god." Jesus said unto them: "How do you know me? Verily to you I say, not this generation of people among you will know me!" (...) When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them "Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you [...] has provoked you to anger in your souls (...)". The pronouns remind me of expressions occurring in our "Gospel of John": "It is written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."(John 8:17; cf. 10:34;18:31). And of the twelve disciples not "getting it" is a recurring motif in many places even throughout our canonical gospels, such as with their reactions to Jesus' miracles, with chronic symptoms of "fear" and of having "their understanding darkened" or, as in the case before and even following his resurrection, - unbelief. The "Book of Acts" was written (for one reason) to give "a happy ending' to all that, but there remained nonetheless Christian movements which did not "buy" it (I think some early 20th century French scholars are likely correct in their proposals that "Acts" was a writing actually compiled about the midpoint of the second century, for one reason, to try to reconcile Christian movements which were divided in their rivalries over which disciple constituted "the man-of-god for our day & time"). Having blabbered on too much already, I end with an observation of 1 Cor.13, the topic in question: "Love is not jealous" . Oh, really? Did the old testament god "renew his mind"? The same god whose very name is "jealous"? Of such monumental transformation which has apparently occurred with this god, and transform him from a jealous god into "The Love God" - where's the record? *** And now a friendly reminder to one and all here - "Love is patient" Can we can endeavor to demonstrate this trait here a bit more in our dealings with "ck junior"? Only now do I grasp what our wise Sir Guess raised here earlier. What gain is there in us wise "old farts" poking this green-behind-the-ears "youngling" in the ribs, bitch-slapping this poor little child to give us an answer to every jot & tittle of his views having to do with his admiration for a comic book hero? Good God almighty wtf is the matter with you people (lol). Time to get outside and enjoy the spring weather. Danny

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the attributes of "love" described in 1 Corinthians 13 may be seen as entirely antithetical to those of the OT deity. Why do you guys continue to "wink" at those things believed by different ancient Christian movements?... Danny

To become as One - as man and woman was one in the Garden, before their spirit/soul (?) became divided. And now conciliated through Isu into one new person, "neither male nor female" (interestingly enough), but "as angels in heaven", who neither marry or are given in marriage. It is they who are "accounted worthy" of the Kingdom of Heaven, in inherit that Eon to come. Once again, the place and role of eunuchs in ancient Christianity (the Aramaic word "eunuch" and "faithful" are even the same) -comes to mind. Danny

I just got back from the mall a few hours ago - thanks Bramble for the link! The hardcopy is well worth it (for about $20, not bad for a new hardcover), which includes background annotations and alternate meanings for certain words and places. This is a very cool work so far. A Jesus who laughs too. Love it. And I fired up my homemade "Theremin" the first time this evening for its "test drive", and played some weird Jimi-Hendrix/Outer Limits kinda stuff to celebrate the occassion. Lost texts. Weird music. Life doesn't get any better than this! :) Danny

Tell me about it (lol). I'm going to the mall to see if I can find a copy of "The Gospel of Judas"... Danny

No, no, no. Roy doesn't ring the utterances of our "authorized" Bible versions - Roy is doing a style reminscient (to me, at least) of the Nag Hammadi material. And I'm not saying that's "bad" or "wrong". There were, from beginning of Christianity till now, other writings - other Christian movements - other Christian viewpoints. Different Christian interpretations. Different Christian "Spirits" perhaps. Even today people are still debating over the meaning of the Nag Hammadi scrolls, and will still be doing so a hundred years from now. And while they're at it, perhaps they'll be doing the same with Roy. Roy, I find it fascinating that you're writing down your "prophecies" - which btw, also remind me of the style of prophecies uttered in the Way. It's a sensible practice, whatever one may think of the content - because you demonstrate a helluva lot more reverence for what you regard as possible "words of prophecies" being transmitted from the Highest Deity, than the oft casual way a lot of us treated supposed prophetic utterances while we were in the Way International. The countless meetings, where we exercised the "gifts' of tongues and interpretations and prophecies, but an hour later- who could recall their interpretation, their message, even any of their content? Most of us (including myself) thought so highly of these "divine messages' as to not write them down (!!!) It's extraordinary when you think about it. Prophecies meant to edify the soul with the duration and attention span of an ice cream headache. "In an atom"...the twinkling of an eye... :) Danny

I'm looking forward to "Snakes on a Plane" starring Samuel L. Jackson. Terrorists hijack a plane and release thousands of venomous snakes aboard... and Samuel L. Jackson is there to save the day. That oughtta be great. Danny

Well, it does cost some money to produce any publication, and mail it out...that tact would have perhaps been much better to present for establishing subscription rates, rather than all that droning "support us or go away", hour-of decision crap. They could have written something along these lines: "Dear Subscriber, Due to rising costs involved in maintaining our publication, we regret to inform you that we must charge a minimum subscription fee, which will make possible the continuence of having our fine publication delivered right to your door. We hope you understand. But if you sign up today, you will receive ABSOLUTELY FREE this beautiful, deluxe "STIFFY" TRAVEL MUG, as well as the Deluxe STIFFY refrigerator MAGNET-CALENDAR! (while supplies last). We look forward to serving you. We love you, and would sit on your lap and pour our hearts out to you if we were there. We really would. In the name of the One-eyed trouser God, The STIFFY Staff" No one would have had a problem with that.

Perhaps he meant that "love" (being the "bond of completion") isn't possible without "put[ting] on the new man" -rendered "new' upon a knowledge of the image (appearance?) of Him that created it [this new man?] (Col.3:10). To lend weight to the argument for the definition "the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation", and so forth. It might work in this particular context, actually... Before we were reckoned among those which the OT world creator promises "wrath". among the "children of disobedience" - a term for Israel, the creator's own children no less! (Col.3:6-7). The parallel is to be found in Ephesians chapter 2. The identity of the "Prince of the power of the air" in that same chapter may refer to "the World Aeon" which breathed "air" into the children of darkness (cf.Gen.1-3), that "breath" or "spirit" which animates them to this day. "Your life is hid with the Krestus-God. Yet when the Krestus may be manifested, your life in the Krestus-God shall be manifested in Splendor" (Col.3:1, Apostolikon, conjectural reconstruct.). Don't set your affection on the [creator's] earth - no longer submit to the religious bondage of the elemental angels of the world (Col.2:15-23). Shed off all those things engaged by the children of disobedience (3:5-9) put on the new man, which is of course, in the "image" of "the new God" declared by the Marcionites during the early decades of the 2nd century. The "new man" was created through the cross of Christ (Eph.2:15), which event overthrew the "old commandments" of the Old Testament god, superceded by the new edicts of the new Krestus-God. One no longer need subject themselves to the power of the creator's angels, those "principalities and powers" exposed through Krestus. You are no longer "the old man" (property of the old god) - but now you are become a new race, purchased (or "ransomed") from the old deity by the new Krestus-God, with the promise of inhabiting the new world of the new God located in a heaven higher than that of the Jehovah god in his realm. Well okay, perhaps Ck didn't intend all those weird ancient gnostic things. :) Danny

I purchased my first truly new guitar about 4 years ago from a music seller on Ebay (for about $200) - a (Korean-made) "Springfield" classical-electric guitar (essentially a classical guitar with a built-in piezo pickup). I wanted a classical guitar I could plug into my computer to record with. Aside from making a slight adjustment to the truss rod and throwing on good strings, it has a very nice sound, fine action and has served me very well so far. I also picked a cheap Spanish-made "Magerit" classical guitar off Ebay for about $80. I had rescued another beat-up "Magerit' from a friend's closet many years before, which I had fixed up and carried around everywhere and played many jams over the years before it got damaged at a party. I think the thing was made out of cheap Spanish plywood, but damn, I loved the sound, and I composed a lot of decent tunes on it. I'm not as enamored with the newer Magerit - I'm treating it too nicely. I think it needs a set of cheap Labella "folk guitar" strings, and needs to be removed from its case and tossed in a closet for a couple years to age rightly (lol). It's better made than my previous Magerit, which may be the problem. All my other guitars have essentially been hand-me-downs and tag sale specials. A 'Harmony' steel string folk guitar (out in the garage, with an old Lowe organ also given to me); my Ventura (Gibson ES copy) jazz electric guitar in the living room; and my latest addition, an old ukelele given to me by my mother-in-law (which she had bought for her husband years ago, but who never took an interest in it). It's funny, but I didn't take a guitar with me when I went WOW in '83. But two guitars 'found me' nonetheless, one being a 12 string Guild guitar which was lent me by someone whose father was in the Doc Watson band (mentioned earlier in this thread). I wish now I could have scraped up the $200 to actually buy it at the end of the year, but it wasn't to be. Danny

There's something to this. I think of my father in the last year of his life. He reverted to a younger time and a child in his mind. Like a tape being rewound, and stopped at certain points, one day he was "going to work", the next day back in grade school 70 years ago, back in his mothers house, and (literally) wearing a diaper again. He apparently did go back to the beginning, as I've observed this process in other older people in their last days as well. Strange but my father's death did not overly sadden me at the time. I felt he reached his destination (wherever that was). Though his passing has effected me in the manner of certain hot salsas. Danny

In all fairness there's likely more problem with my personal understanding of the sense of the English word "perfect" - perhaps not a "perfect" word for these passages - does it depart from a varying meaning originally intended by the writer(s)? If memory serves me fairly(without juggling dictionaries or concordances), the various Greek/Syriac words rendered 'perfect' in Pauline literature may be also construed in the sense of 'complete', 'completion', 'maturity', 'fulness' 'fruitfulness'...even 'initiate' or 'initiated'. But those who would proclaim themselves "perfect" - their works, their views -would generally be looked upon as fat-headed snobs in our society (lol). Because I share similar sentiments with Goey on "the human condition". If I'm not "perfect" - and I know I'm not - I tend to assume - project? - the same of others. Danny

CM, It is a nice verse - though the word "perfectness" does little for me at the moment. By itself it seems a cold, hollow abstract. Makes me think of Matthew's "Be perfect as your Father in heaven is also perfect". Which is why I prefer Luke's parallel "Be compassionate (unto others) as your Father in heaven is also compassionate." Now there's something with which I - and perhaps other imperfect flesh and blood human beings in general - can relate. Or do they? Despite their apparent parallels, Matthew and Luke seem to be living two different worlds, of two different mindsets -even classes. I used to like Matthew's version of the "Sermon on the Mount". But now I completely despise it for the cynical piece of snobbish trash that it is - a total distortion of what I consider to be the earlier version contained in Luke. When "Luke" wrote "Blessed are the poor" he meant actual human beings suffering actual hunger pangs. But Matthew apparently didn't want any of these same undesirables in their neighborhood. So he changed it... to pious hypocrites seeking a late-night spiritual snack. Danny

In short, Xena, their teaching transformed every aspect of our minds - our deepest thoughts, feelings and even failings - into devils to be feared. They tried to make us afraid of ourselves. "Don't trust your own heart - trust in the Lord" (of which Way leaders fancied themselves representatives, and convinced many of the same). Danny

There are a few Muslim voices being raised out there...such as this Muslim woman: "Ridiculing bin Laden as a "Neanderthal", she challenges Muslims to end "Islam's totalitarianism". The faith, she argues, has lost the capacity for self-examination and inquiry that blossomed in its golden age from AD 750 to AD 1250, when Muslims invented algebra, created the guitar and opened the world's first university. She is particularly dismissive of the "desert Islam" that Arabs have imposed on the non- Arab majority of Muslims. What the religion needs now, she says, is to revive the forgotten Islamic tradition of independent thought known as ijtihad. The first step, she suggests, should be a campaign to support female Muslim entrepreneurs "to kick-start change in Islam"". http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/news/times-04-04-27.html

Great thoughts Jerry. I think that the salvation of the Benevolent One also extends to "demons" as well as other angelic "principalities and powers" (Eph.3:9; Col.1:14-18). Danny

Excellent post Goey. I must admit that your information on "thinketh no evil" = "does not impute wrongs" lends weight (in my mind at least) to the theory put forth by Paul-Louis Couchoud that the section of 1 Cor. ch.13 may be a piece of Marcionite handiwork. The attributes of "love" described in this chapter also emerge many times through Marcion's "Antithesis" between the OT "Judge" ( who does "impute wrongs", and does become "jealous" and "irritable", as anyone is aware from reading the OT) and the benevolent NT God, who neither judges nor condemns any person, and whose resemblance readers are encouraged here and elsewhere to put on or imitate. Danny

Sounds really good. Thanks T-bone. That's an excellent reason for collecting different versions. Danny

If you would like to try something completely different, you might consider picking up a Gospel "Harmony" - the New American Standard Edition is quite nice, though I've lent it out and haven't seen it since. I've also gotten a lot of use from an old copy of "A Chronological Harmony of the Gospels" by Stephen J. Hartdegan (Saint Anthony Guild Press, 3rd ed. 1950) as well as Throckmorton's "Gospel Parallels: A Synopsis of the First Three Gospels" (with alternate readings from the Manuscripts and Noncanonical Parallels). Danny

I think your plan of studying this section of scripture is noble. However, can you truly accomplish this project to "the best of [your] ability", if the only "tools' you have in your box are the old vpw Way brand? Oh sure they're classics, but tools have also come a long way since then. They were fine looking tools when they were new years ago, but over the years, it has been my experience that the VPW line is limited and woefully underpowered for various applications. I could no longer accomplish "the best of my ability" with these old tools - that old "Timothy II" Jigsaw, for example - one couldn't saw a straight line with that damn thing no matter how hard they tried! The blades are duller and cheesier than hell. In fact, I've observed so many users over the years who ended up with splinters in their eyes even when they took the extra precaution of wearing safety goggles. Weird... The higher-critical line of power tools, on the other hand, do a far better job ripping straight lines through all kind of materials, thick 'n thin; they are particularly good for stripping layers of the old veneer off old wooden "scripture" to get a better look at what's going on beneath. The old VPW line of tools, by contrast, had barely enough torque to scratch the surfaces, and then they would oft overheat and bog down. For this reason, I can no longer recommend Way products. Look elsewhere to expand "The best of [your] ability", like throughout the libraries and bookstores in your local area, as well as online. Danny

A vision of the alternate universe of the 1950s future, which cosmic harddrive crashed without a backup somewhere in the neighborhood of 1960.

From its ashes shall arise A musical ark. A gateway to the ether.

(lol) I'm still in the process of mixing and matching wood pieces, so nothing is actually fastened together at this point. It is a cabinet for the circuitry of a musical instrument called a "Theremin" which is played by moving one's hands around two antennae, without actually touching it. Music "from the ether" as it used to be called during the 20s and 30s. The wood pieces are salvaged from some drawers to a dresser that used to be in my childhood home, which suffered almost total destruction last year. All that remained was this old dresser out in the shed. The old home will probably be torn down completely by its new owner in the months to come. Danny

Hello Sir Guess. Interesting notion on the spectrum of faith, though I think to a certain extent one could easily replace "faith" with "attitude" (or some such word) without missing a beat. Or with "stages" of ones own life. From whence did this first faith arrive - did it also "come into the world" like the second through fifth? You appear to be speaking here from a standpoint of God as a "mythic otherness" (if these degrees of "faith" came into the world from elsewhere?). It's just that the expression "came into the world" evokes an otherworldly origin not unlike that of "the Light" in the prologue to the Fourth Gospel. Your 6th faith is one strikingly reflective of the perspectives of artists. I have spent the whole evening contemplating the design of a cabinet. And the 7th - I must enter immediately by going to bed and disengaging my mind into the void of silence for a few hours. Or have I with this need wandered full circle back into number 1? :) Danny