Samurai

The degradation of Jesus had to do with the pure life that he lived and as a Son of God, as the Messiah, the Saviour, was treated, beaten publicly and privately as a common low life criminal and hanged on a tree (stake or cross) for all to see and again mock via words. It needed nothing added to it to make it any more humilating or degrading. It would have been the epitome of shame for any family to have a family member executed in such a manner, nevertheless the family of the one that many flocked to for teaching and healings. What's more, as I see it, many doctrines of The Way INternational seem to be infiltrated by a sexual theme. VP taught that all the women of the kingdom belonged to the king, in regards to David and Bathseba. If that was true, why did David have to set up Uriah to die to hide the fact that he (David) impregnated BAthseba if she legally belonged to the King? How about when the angel appeared to Joseph telling Joseph that the babe in Mary's womb was conceived by the Holy Spirit? I remember JAL teaching that the words "took unto his wife" or something like that meant that they had sexual relations right there and then and by passed the whole betrothal thing ....TWI took the traditional meaning of Joseph accepting Mary and NOT having her stoned to death or publicly ashamed by him into Joseph jumping Mary's bones. Then don't forget the Christian FAmily and Sex class where all body parts were just parts and there was bascially no difference between a nose and penis...parts is parts don't we all know. While many may argue the 'benefits' of trying to shed shame over private body parts, one should look at the whole of sexual inneundos and right out sexual insertions into areas of scripture that was totally of TWI origin and wonder what the purpose for that was.. along with the alleged showing of beastiality films... It's the hidden, covert actions that can do the most damage as they are not easily spotted for what they are.

Wanting British= Protestant. Not wanting British, Catholic. It isn't the scapegoat there but the banner for justification of infiltrating and taking over the people. Just as the Europeans used religion and their religious right to murder, and subjugate the Native people here and the world over. Racial, ethnic cleasning=getting rid of the opposing religious side.

Hey Rascal, I hope you don't mind me sticking my head in here. But you're right; according to the bible, fruit isn't optional, it's automatic if one is a real Christian, or follower of Jesus. Luke 13 describes a tree that is bearing no fruit. The Lord gives it more time at the urgence of a servant. If it doesn't bear fruit eventually, it will be cut down. John 15:5-6 Talks about Jesus' followers abiding in him, the true vine, and if they do, they produce much fruit. If they don't abide, they will be gathered to be burned as they are no good. So according to the bible, you abide in the Lord, you bear fruit. If one doesn't abide in what they profess to believe, no fruit. So you're right, it's not optional if one bears fruit or not. And most certainly, the fruit borne would not be in direct opposition to the fruit requird by Jesus and neither would it match the works of the flesh found in Galatians. Repeatedly, over and over again, no less. TWI made us the masters of our our salvation and Lords of the manifestation of that supposed salavation. And we can all see how great that turned out in by the damage and destruction done to people's lives.

If I am understanding you correctly, Krysilis, you are saying that you were in the corps and never heard any statements that declared, alluded to or insinuated that anyone who left the Corps, WOW field, or any type of committment was open to attack from the adversary? That is absolutely great! I can't point anything out to you though, cause I dont' know you and wasn't with you, more than likely, in any place you were while in TWI. But to give creedence to my words, that I have posted, may I point out the name of this web site as in "Greasespot". As I said, the same theme was promoted all across the board when I was involved, not just in the Way Corps. I was agreeing with the original post that started this thread in saying yes, the same was applied elsewhere. My Corps experience did not come close to Corps 1, which I believe were the very early years? I am assuming? I don't know if the person who started this thread is from that time period, if so, maybe he can help you as he seemed to have heard it?? I am glad you didn't experience any of it. If I am misreading you or your post, I apologize, if this is not what you meant. Also, I would like to refer to the Advanced Class filmed in 1979 and used in subsequent Advanced Classes, where VP is right in the camera, telling you that over 80 percent of all people in mental institutions are Christians. And that the devil would like nothing better than to put you in there too. If that is not a covert statement from a MOG, the MOG to rally up fear of 'standing against the devil' which equates having to stand with the one true ministry, I don't know what is. Back in 1980, the ROA, when VP was teaching from the ROA stage, he talked about the armour in Ephesians. He talked about how all the equipment was designed to go on the front of the person and that there was NONE for the back. He went on to talk about those who turned against God and His Word, walking away from the ministry, had NO protection on their back. In 1979 or early 1980,LCM came to my state and had a big meeting. He went on and on about people who turned away from the ministry. He taught that it took a devil spirit to trick people to turn away from God's matchless word, ie the ministry. I was also told that since I signed up for PFAL and then subsquent classes, the devil would now be after me as I had become a threat to him. All people in our area was told that. I am glad that was not common. ((ps the dog going crazy and all was tongue in cheek, my attempt in dealing with a rash of memories with a bit of my own type of humor)) All in all, I still maintain there were no innocent statments such as were cited in the first post of this thread, as the person posted stated. It wasn't training, it wasn't making people tougher, or stronger or more committed. That was the point of my response. For Christians, only the holy spirit can make you stronger and committed and more resolved; even that was taught in PFAL when VP talked about what changed the disciples from being vascilitating to bold; not some rigorous campaign designed by men.

This type of evil, mental manipulation and mental/emotional intimidation was used wide scale through out the ministry at different time and different locations to different groups of people but for the same reason...to get the worker bees, drones to carry out the will of the head honchos of TWI...to keep your butt in gear and working for them. Right before my second WOW year ended(yeah yeah I went twice plus the summer outreach program I mentioned elsewhere), the area coordinator sat us all down in his wonderful living room in a multi level house and told us that we better start making plans NOW for what we were going to doing after the ROA and our homecoming BECAUSE he said how we lived the year after our WOW year would determine the the spiritual quality of the rest of our lives.... And you know, no matter how much some want to say that all was innocent, that all was good and that all was to make you tougher and leaner... THERE WERE NO INNOCENT STATEMENTS IN TWI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not one. Not when a MOG spoke and you were corps or apprentice corps or WOW's, We all KNEW the unspoken and hidden (covert which is more dangerous than outright declaring something and harder to get over) meanings behind such statements.... You will get possessed. Your family will get possessed. Your family will die. Your dog will die. You will end up in a mental institution. Your dog will end up committing suicide. Someone you love will die in a car accident just like soososososososo God will take his hand of protection off of you cause you're not sitting on the couch in front of the fire in the royal throneroom of the most elite cream de crap of the holy of holies. Every statement made by a MOG was a loaded statement filled with threats, phobia indoctrination and scare tactics. It was all manipulation, indoctrination and brain washing. Or mind control, which boils down to us simply believing it and fearing it and responding to it. Training program, yes, you're right, training the rats to avoid the negative things we were taught to fear and keep right on running on the wheel of TWI over and over and over again.

Gods, we have so much in common. I wonder if we were apprentice corps the same year? My first apprentice corps meeting was like three hours away from where I lived and it started early in the morning so I left the night before, drove like two hours, stayed at a fellow apprentice corps house and we left from there while still dark to drive. After all that, there was NO Breakfast, no nothing and we didn't grab anything to eat on the way thinking there would at least be coffee. Immediately we were paired up to witness all over the city we were in. Didn't get to eat until late afternoon. I knew I was not into starving to move the word. It was more than that, it told me that they didn't care for their people or plan for them and their benefit and if that didn't prove it then subsequent apprentice corps meetings where we cooked, cleaned and tilled the area leader's home and garden. But back on topic, every meeting, coffee house, open meeting with visiting leadership were all used as recruitment tools for PFAL or to go WOW. Remember that African American group that did songs and traveled with Cla****** R****? They came around often promoting PFAL and the WOW program.

A friend of mine was kidnapped right before the ROA 1977 to be deprogrammed. I don't know how much of a kidnapping it was, since she lived with her parents, and wasn't out on the field but she was held against her will and if I remember correctly, was moved from place to place against her will, it may even have involved a plane, I am not sure. She escaped, got help from someone and the authorities got involved and she made it to the Rock. This was at the Sidney Fair Grounds I believe. VP had her on stage and she told her story and how the deprogrammers grabbed and stole her address book so they could solicit the parents of the TWI people in her book for deprogramming, and of course, I was listed in there. My parents did get a call from someone asking them how they felt about my involvement in TWI and of course they said they hated it but that they would not interfer with it. So nothing came of that. I remember Take a Stand Caravan, Rascal, you are prompting my memories :) That was a cool show, it was a recruiting tool. I am going to carry my bible to school, lol. Anyway, I went out WOW in 1980, to an outreach city. The TAKIT band was making tours. Takit to the Top, do you remember that? Maybe I am not spelling the band's name correctly. Anywho, we had a roving WOW ambassador, corps who roamed the region as needed, working with the WOW's on the field. When the TAKIT people came to my outreach city, the roving WOW worked with a local school to use their auditorium for a concert. She sat in my WOW living room telling us how they went to the principal of the school, promoting the TAKIT band as a positive, anti drug message for young people. While that was true, she lied by ommission and never told the principal that they were associated with TWI. She thought it was great. A positive message is great. And a good positive message doesn't need to be covered up from where it was coming from. I cringed. It was lying. Now, I don't know who knew she did that, among those traveling with the band, and I mean no offense, but here was just another example of how TWI didn't tell the whole truth because the end always justified the means.

Rascal, I remember the story that the guy told as well from the stage of ROA. It was horrifying and scary, but then we were being made to fear deprogrammers like they were out to get each and everyone of us. One year prior to Monty telling his story on stage in 1979, our branch coordinator (non corps) had a weekly meeting with us twig coordinators (all non corps) and read a publication he claimed he got from the Way Tree that was published, supposedly by some civil rights group about what happens during a deprogramming and how the person is systematically broken down. Lack of sleep, food, privacy, even escorted to the bathroom, dropping them on the floor should they fall asleep, stripping the subject to lower their defenses cause most people are defenseless while naked. Oh and dont' forget, the word was that Ted Patrick, like the deprogrammer of deprogrammers (that is they way he was presented to us) was supposedly an ex- pimp (according to TWI leadership) and was therefore, an expert in breaking women down. I remember Monty telling how he was tied down in bed and when he had to urinate, they brought him a cup and held his penis so he could urinate in to the cup. One day untied, he and his brother (I think) were allowed outside (seemed like he was kept in a remote area or a campsite of some sort) and Monty broke into a run and his brother chased him then his brother fell and claimed he was bitten by a snake and Monty had to make a decision, the word or his brother so Monty kept running and then his brother continued to chase him. That is when, at that ROA of 1979 that VP announced from the stage that there were a lot of FBI people there and he knew that they were there because he had a connection with a man upstairs and everyone cheered like loons at that statment. VP also said that had they asked, he would have granted them access to the grounds cause they had nothing to hide and they wouldn't find what they were looking fun, ie guns. That was a weird Rock. There were several problems. One, when we left the main grounds of the ROA and crossed the road (Wierwille Road?), we had to walk straight across, if we walked diagonally, the local sheriff blasted his siren. No lollygagging on that road that year. Also, one morning, all the head cheeses called a meeting in the Main Top to explain a situation between a car of Wayfers and a car of locals that occured during the night. As they explained the altercation, I got more and more confused as none of it make sense. It seems that some local got hurt or their car got damaged, something of the sort. Everyone cheered and I said, "huh?" But then I have always been the odd ball. Through the early time I was involved (I stayed in till 1989) from 1975-1979ish, all the twig coordinators and branch leaders were regular people from the area/community where I lived. The only corps were possibly the area leaders or the limb leaders. Things were more laid back, and the music and style of twig was kinda hippish, sort of a left over from those days. Lots of folk type music made by the locals. People hung together. We went out after twig, we went dancing or to eating establishments, we got together on our own to study the word, play games, you name it. And we thrived. Nothing was mandatory, and being young, when I got in, I was surrounded by many older people in their thirties, divorced mostly and had already seen a big chunk of the world and life. I was an 18 year old. Only ONE time did I see a twig coordinator try to confront these people into doing something mandatory like go to a college WOW program since several of them were attending night classes at the local community college in addition to holding down a job and these more seasoned people told the twig leader in no uncertain terms where he could shove his college wow meeting. That was great! :) After the ROA 1980, my homecoming, I went back to my home area and found out that all the branch leaders had been replaced with corps. Things were never the same after that. If that offends, sorry but it is the truth because things became more legalistic and mandatory.

Rascal is right. With the Iranian Crisis there was more talk of our country being in peril and we were to stock up on supplies and in our area, they even talked about getting wood stoves for cooking and heating since our electrcial and gas power may be affected. That was the end of 1979. The next year, in 1980, is when they did the outreach cities with the WOW Ambassadors. Perhaps anyway from 100 to 150 WOWS were sent to one city. Virginia Beach, VA, Washington DC, Phoeniz, AZ were some of those cities. I was one of them While I was on the WOW field, John Lennon was shot and killed in NY. Our WOW branch, all the WOWs had a meeting and there was leadership there telling us basically that John Lennon was seed of the serpent so no big loss and that is how the devil treats his own. Back in 1978, I think it was 1978, is when the Jim Jones cult commited mass suicide. I was at my twig leader's house as we were having an intermediate class and afterwards were watching TV with her 6th corps finace and that is when the news came over about the Jim Jones Cult. Of course, according to VP, those people were murdered and didn't commit suicide and claimed our government had a hand in it and said that those people in that cult were being treated by our government as if they were sent to Guyanna on a mission since our government went in to get the bodies. He said our government only did that, retrieved bodies like that when people were sent on a mission. There was a big emphasis on deprogrammers fear of during those years.

Several states, at least in the North East did a "MinuteMan Program." It was the WOW program with the WOW guide lines condensed to a two month program during the summer of 1976. You were sent in your state but to a different city, with a family yadda yadda all to move the move and keep the country free. Of course, using the Minute Man name being a reference to the common troops who fought in the revoluntionary war to keep the country free.

A leopard can't change their spots. What TWI really is will eventually be in full evidence sooner or later sometime down the pike because it is what it is and that's all it will ever be. I don't doubt that there are some sincere people still in there trying to help people heal. Heck, we were all part of it once too, there to help. And there were always some special leader or coordinator who cared more about the people than the rules and regulations of the corrup religion called TWI: but they were outnumbered by the power hungry, cookie cutter, fax images of the Man of God (have briefcase will travel..up the Way Tree.) And of course, these true hearted people did make life in TWI bearable while we stood among those who berated us. But did they really help us see the true colors of TWI and help us make the right decision or only prolong the suffering of staying around a dead stinking dog because of our loyalty to good people rather than to ourselves or our families or even our supposed one on one with God? Back to the Advanced Class. I took it in 1986. There was nothing in there that I hadn't known before. It cost what, like $450?? Plus traveling expenses to get there? It certainly wasn't worth it. I left TWI a few years after taking the class and would have puked if LCM had demanded that after all that, we had to take YET another class to be considered anything of import to them.

This is why after being in TWI and then a few churches after that, I will never ever again become involved in any religion whatsoever again. To speak of the wrongs committed, of the hurts suffered, of people losing their lives, sanity and perhaps monetary set backs because of any such group, to speak of or mention the ills (and I don't mean talking about Betty Sue and her new horrible hair-doo) is to be labeled as clamour, being angry, being filled with bitterness and rage and so forth. I view this as a very evil way to control people, to mentally and emotionally beat them into submission and which allows those perpetrators, or those who were at the helm to escape any liabilities that their poor decisions and poor management skills cost in the lives of others. It is a very effective way of controlling people and keeping them in the pews, the fellowship circle especially if you throw in a few fear phobias like going to hell, telling them they will go insane if they leave or the devil will possess them or kill them or their families if they leave. When I was in TWI and I heard the statment that Stalin (was it Stalin?) said that religion was the opiate of the masses, I thought it meant that people, the masses, were being accused of using religion as a crutch to make it through life. I now see what he meant was it was a good way to make people into mewling sheep who would just go along with the mind control being exercised on them. To me personally, there is nothing loving, honorable, godly or just about making excuses for those who were in charge of other people and handled it soooooooo badly and then NEVER learned from their mistakes to correct the situation and just allowed the same damn thing happen all over again and again. One person to have died on the WOW field by the hands of another is ONE too much. One person to have died on the WOW field by being placed in a dangerous situation/city is ONE too much. For ONE WOW to have gone hungry on the WOW field was ONE too much and I starved, losing 20 lbs the first three months out on my first year. Instead of teaching "Wows pay your vows and all that sheet, they should have taught how to survive the first three months financially untill everyone was pulling in a pay check. I don't understand how one person can blindly defend an organization that had so many people experience the short end of the stick consistently but that is the INSANITY I have found in many religions and is a main component I have recognized will avoid religious groups at all costs. The MO behind this is that those in charge must remain in charge and the doctrine is lauded over the worth of the individual at all costs; even the cost of someone's life. Anytime I am not allowed to say something is wrong or sucks or is just blantantly wrong/bad/evil, is the day I take off for the hills cause I will never ever be involved in a group like that AGAIN. When I left TWI, I knew things were wrong, that is why I left. I went through a period of mourning and guilt as I reviewed what happened to not only me, but to those around me. I tried to contact as many people as I could to apologize and offer assistance. I really really don't understand those who continue to blame the victims, the people who got involved rather than lay the blame where it deserved to go, to the leadership. This is people's lives we're talking about, I don't get it treating it so blaze'???? But I think it is indicative of TWI (and any other group that tries to cover its collective a$$) Blame others for faults and failures and never point a finger at the machine sucking the life from others. Geez, even when LCM and Chr$s G**R were still walking hand in hand, a tape was made in 1987 (where they also talked about who really killed VP) and Ch**s G**r blamed the Way Corps for not getting their acts together, their hearts together and that is why the ministry was still F****ed up. Imagine that, it was the Corps fault. It wasn't the Corps fault. It was not the individual Wow's fault. It wasn't the twiggers fault either. A fish stinks at the head. Period.

Ya know, it seems to me that a major point is being missed here. Death was against TWI's agenda. Death was against everything TWI told us could be ours if we just believed, obeyed and all that hoopla. If TWI didn't believe that they had personal culpability (sp) in the deaths of all the individuals, either WOW or Corps or LEAD then the deaths of each individual would have been handled differently. The bottom line IS not and never WAS could accidents be avoided or simple human error. The overall line was that the individual NEVER mattered to TWI. TWI mattered to TWI and that was all the counted; the personal agenda of TWI. For an organization that claimed they celebrated and revered the word, the word, the word, they sure ignored those verses where Jesus said that the riches of the world was not comparable to ONE soul; COUNT IT, ONE ONE ONE Soul. For a "biblical" ministry that touted the teaching that Jesus would have died solely for you cause he loved you that much, that the person was worth all that and more... Well, they negated this words when the people of TWI put their hearts, minds, and actual lives out on the line and their lives were snuffed out. Their lights were permanently dimmed in this world. And what did they get for it?? A nice sweeping under the rug if they could do it; if you weren't high profile enough. AND if you were high profile enough, then it was YOUR fault you died; you were out of fellowship, you missed revelation, you weren't going out by two-sies oozies... These people lost their lives in the line of service in TWI. What was doen for them??? Were you allowed to cry for them, as the New Testament Saints cried for the loss of theirs? Were you allowed to celebrate their lives and tell of their exploits and bemoan the loss of their lives? Were they held up for respect and admiration, after 'having laid it all on the line?' No. Many, if not all of them became anathema. Because it didn't fit TWI's agenda of health, wealth and prosperity. The individual, God's people, God's children, were not good enough, and although worth MORE than all the riches of the world, were not good enough to be treated with the proper respect and dignity GIVEN to good people everywhere. These people were sacrificed to the cross of TWI, oh no wait, TWI doesn't do crosses, they were sacrificed on the altar, oh wait, no altars.. Hey, TWI likes mantles... They were sacrificed on the Mantle of the Man of God and erased into obscurity forever. It's not human error, it's not being falliable or infalliable, it is the nature of the beast of the organization was (and still is) is that the individual is of little to no consequence as long as the mother machine gets what it needs to keep running. All these kids who died in the line of fire should have been memoralized and not demonized or blamed. But TWI couldn't do that NOR could it admit that it made mistakes in dealing with the very people's lives who whole heartedly trusted TWI and gave their lives over. And there's no excuse for what happened to them and the way their memories were treated afterwards.

Generally speaking, average, run of of the mill, peaceful God loving people don't wake up one day and murder someone. It is a great leap of illogic to think that this is what happened. Usually people escalate in violence. They may start out being verbally violent, yelling, cursing, calling names and then they graduate in that violence. They throw things, kick the dog, push people, then graduate that into hitting people. Come on, we see it all the time in abusive relationships or hear about it. People warn females to get out of abusive relationships before it's too late, ie, before they get killed. So ya, the BOT were responsible to know exactly what or who was going out on the WOW Field, especially someone who had been in the corps. They should have had his ENTIRE background there on paper from the one or two Reverend references he needed with his corps application, to his behavior right there in the corps. Normal average day people can tell when they got a time bomb on their hands. How about people who claim to know what's best, set themselves as leaders and spiritual guides over other people? They shown have known, they should have seen the handwriting on the wall. Then never forget their famous motto, "All Nine All the Time." Weren't they getting reception the day they assigned him a family to be in charge of?? All I know is, they blew it and they knew it and that is why when things like this happened, it was swept under the rug and never admitted to because they knew it flew in the face of what they told everyone else and would lose recruits by the hundreds. I was young when I went out WOW. IF that had ever happened to me, VP, LCM, and everyone BOT would have had to deal with my father who would have grabbed his own shotgun and gone down to HQ demanding some answers and that right quick. They would have found out what it would have felt like to be on the receiving end of that and what it was like to be at someone else's mercy. If my children ever joined a punk organization like TWI and anything similiar ever happened to them, or if they were drugged and raped, **** the devil, their biggest problem would be the parent (ME) coming for retribution and justice, my own justice. Not responsible, what a calloused fluff off of responsibilty. When you promise spiritual growth and someone ends up with a tombstone because of one your 'trained' leaders, you just better bet your responsible, in every way possible, you are responsible for the death of that young man.

Oldies, You're right. It was a good reason to leave and my family and I did just that. I am glad that we had access to people who got tired of shoveling it under the rug and pointed us to people who were talking. I am sorry you got blamed for asking legitimate questions of those who were to be guides, guards and shepards and an oasis in the desert.