skyrider

Galen.....I still don't think that you're seeing the full picture. The REASON that your current region coordinator "is a guy who you'd witnessed to".......is because ALL THE OTHERS IN THAT POSITION LEFT. Twi calls it damage control or "battlefield promotions." The problem is NOT the corps......the problem is THE WAY INTERNATIONAL AND ITS TEACHINGS/DOGMA.

When I reflect upon those turbulent times in twi......I see two things: 1) The simplicity that's in Christ and truth was a road few traveled 2) Where envy and strife resides, many wear masks to confuse and work evil Twi leadership and corps program created an environment of competition where many corps leaders were vying for wierwille's approval and/or marking their alpha male territories. Upon vpw's death, the throes of evil were unleashed. James 3:16 For where envying and strife [is], there [is] confusion and every evil work.

Nice summation of that sliver of time, socks. Thanks.

Today's "Bible teacher" is so watered-down and diluted that there's no potency to it. Anyone can do it. The world is full of those who impart knowledge and partake of the traditions of men. The valiant men of truth and integrity are hard to find.

And, if we're going to discuss INTELLECTUALLY COWARDICE......maybe we should revisit the Christian Family and Sex class [CFS] and see how wierwille covered "adultery." Oh, he didn't.......shocker. Lots of pictures and slang terms for breasts, vaginas and penises....but NOT setting the boundaries of sex in a Christian marriage/family/setting. If no boundaries are stipulated, then how does one know when and if they've been crossed? Then again, is this intellectually cowardice.....or is this manipulative and exploitive? Wierwille didn't set his organization on solid, biblical footing.....and walter seemed to follow in this selective, bible teachings and side-stepped "adultery" as well. What a bunch of half-baked truths. For reasons like this......wierwille and the wannabe mogs hold little credibility when you peel off the layers of this onion.

Nice label, there. Of course, you don't counter my post above with any perspective. How does the man in charge of the "research department" NOT address adultery? Wouldn't that be sort of, ummm, foundational in a Christian ministry? And, penworks (who worked in the research dept) has given accounts of walter's negligence in other research. But hey, John......I know you're very fond of that little world of half-truths, so I really don't expect much of a response from you.

Yeah.....that's a better way to describe his actions. The man designated as the head of twi's "research department" would only work on wierwille-sanctioned "research." You know, the kind where nothing counters the pfal class [the stolen class] or the legacy/behavior of wierwille. Coming face-to-face with a tsunami of sexual predation AND NOT ADDRESS THE ISSUE IN A "CHRISTIAN MINISTRY"......is unconscionable. Even the old testament, the ten commandments, marks the sin of adultery as a big no-no. Only in a cult does one label all this sexual sin as "spiritual adultery."

Well.....perhaps, there's a better word for someone [i.e. cumm!ns] who was in such lockstep loyalty to wierwille that he would NOT consider Schoenhe!t's research on adultery [or other research that contradicted vp's "interpretation of the verd." Adultery and/or sexual predation was wierwille's "secret doctrine" that caused a wave of destruction throughout twi and mandated to the next mog [martyfail].....and Walter was blind to this????? Or, was he covering for the legacy of a dead wierwille??? Too prideful to consider that wierwille might be "off the word."?? Or, prideful that vpw had taught him and he would stand for the wierwille doctrine? All those years cumm!ns taught us *corps night*......and he couldn't even discern THE SIN OF ADULTERY IN TWI even when a research paper is handed to him, and men like Ralph & JAL are dealing with a boatload of women who've fallen prey to these mogs. Is walter still pushing twi's doctrine, John? Yeah, that's what I thought....and that's why you jumped in to defend him. <_<

Yes....the military fit into a special category. Through the years, I had WOW and Corps assignments near Air Force bases and helped with some of these guys to take pfal and other classes. It was ALWAYS very challenging to work around their schedules. The military had their own chain-of-command to report to....and, as it should be, twi leadership took a back seat. So, yeah.....Galen has a unique perspective of twi. He seems to loathe twi leadership, but loves the vehicle (stolen class) that gave him a ride. Quite a dichotomy!

In a broad-stroke simplification of two groups [A and B].......I have posted many times that twi had many good-hearted, loving, good Samaritan-types of people. And further, I found these people on the field, the WOW program, and EVEN SOME in the corps and on staff. But, you're right Galen. I do know WHO belongs in group B......wierwille, geer, martindale, rivenbark, towns-nd, lynn, cumm!ns, etc. The haughty and prideful are easy to spot.

Galen.....thanks for your candid response. I know of many who view this as you do. For me, I just don't see how people can compartmentalize "good in pfal" and "evil exploitation in twi's corps program." Wierwille 'authored' both.....

The foundational class, run by good-hearted folk, far from hq is one thing...... The corps program, an indoctrination process to vpw and twi-servitude, is quite another..... So, what's the inrez corps numbers? Are these numbers still in single digits?

Does anyone stick around after the class is over?

As twi classes and programs dwindle to a halt.....I cannot help but wonder if advanced class grads and corps are TIRED OF THE LECTURING. It's one thing, with initial involvement, to be optimistic about the group's 'mission statement' and help in that cause.......but, with each passing year of involvement, one sees the hypocrisy and favoritism and double-standards. Then, more and more, when weighed in the balance of scriptures the perception of this great divide widens. Twi is NOT the ministry (cough, cough) that it purports to be. The "teachings" are simply a subtle form of LECTURING and indoctrinating. If their deeds don't follow their words.......its hypocrisy. If prevailing deeds don't follow prevailing words......its hypocrisy. If "its good for thee, but not for me".....its two-faced hypocrisy. Are the adults tired of the charades yet? I think so. More and more evidence seems to suggest that local fellowships are STAYING local. Maybe, they can no longer afford to travel to hq's sunday teaching services with the economy crawling along? That may be a part of it. But....when coupled with 1)boring and 2)lecture.....I tend to think that staying away from hq is what many are doing. Sure, they may not be voicing in clear terms their dissent and displeasure......BUT THEIR ACTIONS ARE UNMISTAKABLE. Didn't vpw used to quote that poem......"I'd rather SEE a sermon, than HEAR one any day." ....."I'd rather one would WALK with me, than merely POINT the way."

This list came from the "CULTS...spreading forth in size and scope" thread (page 4 of thread)......linking to another website. .

These "teachings" should be more aptly noted as reading the scriptures. No word studies or greek words.

Yeah.....local and independent. My grandparents, in the late 1920s, had worship/bible fellowships in their home. My grandfather and other men would alternate responsibilities to lead in prayer or worship each week. No spiritual honcho. Every 6-8 weeks, an itinerant preacher would stop by in their rural, mid-west county....but song, worship and teachings were a staple part of their home. Local neighbors and friends attended faithfully. During wheat harvest, everyone pitched in to help one another. Same thing with barn-raisings. Men, women and children came together.....with labor, meals, support, chores, etc. Twi didn't reinstitute the "church in the home" concept......... :biglaugh:/> .

Taking a page from Rosalie's rulebook......maybe, home fellowship coordinators should strive to make their bible fellowships SELF-SUFFICIENT. If Rosalie is setting the pace for NOT needing you, maybe that's your cue to make strides towards NOT NEEDING THEM? What do you need them for anyways? Do you really need another teaching on "the law of believing?" Do you really need a rigid, boring sunday teaching tape to add to your collection of 3,421 and counting? Do you really need to hear about all the wonderful attributes of the corps training program....when all around you, there is evidence to its pathetic numbers and cloning control freaks? Besides, who really wants to charter the bus trip to hq and come back more depressed? What you need: 1) A bible.....and the zeal to teach it. 2) A living room and arms to hug and greet others. 3) A willingness to be flexible and spontaneous. 4) Fresh perspectives and simple truths. 5) Outings, barbeques, fun times, family times, and joy overflowing. 6) Keep it simple and stop dragging twi's dinosaurs around. 7) Never serve coffee in used, lipstick-stained styrofoam cups. And, if YOU are self-sufficient.....then that tithe money will stay in your account. Imagine the possibilities! Then, you won't need to depend on that measily tape from hq arriving every week to "sustain" you. WOW.....there could be a little fund to help a family in need or in job transition. Now is the time for choosing. :)

Just saying.....how differently people view charitable work today.

See, that's the pesky thing with running to the far end of the spectrum of wierwille's 'law of believing'...... If you've got perfect believing, you can live forever. Right? And, if you believe to comprise self-sufficiency......it's gonna happen. Not in the sense of figuring how to survive, and thrive, with no electricity.... Not in the sense of gasoline/diesel shortages, grocery stories to shop.......... But in the sense of SELF-in-all-its-glory sufficiency and believing. It's the all I-Me-My doctrine where vanity of vanities stands before a mirror. Rosalie has the gift ministry of an Administrator. She's in control. And, the ultimate level of control is when all he!! breaks loose.....and there she is. Steady, firm, and in control. This fantasy has had a long gestation period for this "mother in the word."

I don't think Rosalie is concerned with THAT type of self-sufficiency, Ham. IMO.....she's focused on the money-generating sufficiency of twi's hq. In other words, positioning the interest-accruing monies and investments to self-sustain the activities and twi payroll. Yeah, maybe a little tightening of the belt.......but, if the abundant sharing dissipated overnight and the economy went in the tank, twi would maintain and survive. How incredibly inferior this line of "believing"........when compared to George Mueller, who believed daily for GOD to provide and meet the needs of the orphans. Day by day.....sometimes, down to the last hour, and the orphans had food to eat. In his prayer life, Mr. Mueller brought glory to the Almighty for His care. Rosalie worships at the altar of the mighty dollar. <_</> .

With a healthy emphasis on self-sufficient.......Rosalie has clearly spoken: "We don't need YOU anymore." Can't you just feel the love?

That explains ALOT. So, let me get this straight......after decades and decades of stockpiling away the hard-earned labors and abundant giving of followers throughout the continental U.S.A., Rosalie deems it a worthy goal to make headquarters "self-sufficient?" That's rich! This is SO demented on so many levels that it almost leaves me speechless. Well.....almost. Isn't this the antithesis of Christianity? Of Jesus' life? In other words, the goal is to hoard away enough in one's financial portfolio so that THE MONEY IS SELF-SUSTAINING ONE'S LIFESTYLE IN PERPETUITY..... except, in this case, she's talking about the ruling class and servants of twi's hq. So, if the "outside world".....life, economy, hardships, or even followers abandon twi's exploitation......rosalie and donna and servants will be okay. They live in a world of their own making......a world of seclusion, and control, and order. Sure, there are the secret shopping trips to Dayton, or Chicago....and the fancy white-linen restaurants, but much of their existence is under a dome of dependency. Where are the George Muellers? George Mueller

Extreme zealousness within mainstream Christianity is one thing....... BUT....anyone who was corps, staff or fellow-laborer in twi experienced an isolated, cult-immersed zone. Unless one was on the fringes and violated nearly every rule and reg of twi's policies and programs......the listing of cult-characteristics (noted above) didn't even begin to cover the gamut of manipulations and tactics of wierwille and co. Forget about the "devoting inordinate amounts of time to the group".......twi DEMANDED you give your life to this servitude. And, in the isolation of an Emporia campus and rigid disciplines..........the yell-fests and public character-assassinations. With fiery confrontations and 'spiritually-possessed' labeling, the mogs wielded a power over grown men that instilled fear. Say all you want about "cult-like behavior within mainstream Christianity"......it couldn't begin to register a 2, on a scale of 1-10, what I've experienced in twi. Think about it? How deeply infectious this fear was (and is).....when a Ralph D. come to GSC and tells us that twi leadership "ordered" him and his family to stay in their unit until granted permission to leave twi property. He had resigned as hq's corps coordinator and geer/martindale (??) ordered him to stay inside, not talk to others [while they did damage control] for how long?? Five or six days? Something like that. That's Ralph's story. He detailed it. Sure, some folks didn't see this side of twi. I get that. And yeah, some like to remember the beer-drinking, music-jamming, fun times and all. But, c'mon. This wasn't your vanilla-variety church group who looked for ways to raise money at bake sales. Some even lost their lives trying to follow their rules at L.E.A.D. And, with death......twi STILL DIDN'T CHANGE COURSE.

Yeah.....wierwillle could have used Dorothy Gale (The wizard of oz 1939) Well, maybe not. The Kansas girl might have exposed the Ohio Oz.