skyrider

Oh yeah......and indulge privately would most certainly include wierwille's lust doctrine of fancying himself to "any woman in the kingdom".....which, he'd pass around to other trustees. See, it's one thing to have a secret life of sexual predation......BUT quite another to elicit the "lock box" silence of enablers by making sure they, too, are complicit in the act. That helps to seal the deal in that *trust factor* [conspiring to do evil] among those who might possibly speak out later. Wierwille wasn't CAUGHT AT IT......because trustees and wives were IN ON IT. Imo.....they knew that evil resided there at hq, but were given little FIEFDOMS OF RESPONSIBILITY that gave them adulation and a modicum of power. For example: Emogene and HER bookstore. She wielded power over a large number of employees, had the recognition to call all the shots, and could sit in her office EVERY WEEKDAY AFTERNOON and watch her tv soaps, and not be disturbed. Anyone ever stop in at Don's or Howard's office after the noon meal lunch? Well, their secretary, Cookie, was in the outer office and deemed who got access to them and who didn't. Anyways, both times I stopped there.....the lights were dimmed real low and subdued. I was left with the impression that 1:30pm-2:45pm was nap time for the trustees. Perhaps, they were resting up for evening proclivities ......er, activities. Wierwille systematically built and layered his inner circle to mask his intentions and character. Many could have blown the whistle on wierwille.......but they were bought off or bribed. And, if veepee misjudged a girl's reception of his predation and was stopped in his tracks.....she was disposed as quickly and quietly as possible. Besides, he could always say "she was possessed." .

With Rosalie at the helm..... ....when is that shipment of vpw t-shirts arriving?

First they came for nearby neighbors, relatives and community, and I did not speak out, Because I wasn't a part of wierwille's world yet. Then they came for the youth, and hippies and slivers of the Jesus Movement, and I did not speak out, Because I was a seduced into their good words and fair speeches. Then they taught and indoctrinated corps to serve twi, and I did not speak out, Because I was not corps but enjoyed twig. Then they came for me -- after a major corps exodus, major turbulence, after warnings and red flags were flying high, -- and there was no one to speak for me.

VeePee was a money-grabbing predator! Fleecing the followers at all costs WAS twi modus operandi. And, when did this lazy, pompous, plagiarist EVER give his hard-earned money faithfully to any non-profit or religious organization? Old Man wierwille kept plugging away on the farm and paid for vic's "higher-education" degree. And, veepee gets a meager salary from a struggling church in Paine, OH in 1941. Is a fleecing predator just as disgusting as a sexual predator?

Like so many things in twi.....this purge element needs further explanation. First, foremost and ALWAYS.....the trustees utilized the way corps to front agendas. All *purges* were FIRST presented in corps teachings....sparked, stoked and ablaze with subsequent teachings BEFORE full blown purges were decreed on the general twi-populace. Thus, knowing that corps were "instructed properly" (cough, cough) on the biblical accuracy of this purge.....THEN the trustees proceeded forward. And John......THAT is why you are unfamiliar with the *loyalty purge* because it was most notably directed at corps leadership and staff. As this news spread, whole areas even states made an exodus.....but the purge was directed at corps and staff. Same with debt purge. Same with homo purge. Thus, these time frames are simply irrelevant in a general sense....because the wave of purges hit the corps and non-corps at different times. And, for example the debt purge started out simply as strong admonition to clean up ALL CREDIT CARD DEBT. But, like all things twi with agenda-driven authoritarians.....it moved on to car loans, mortgages, etc. of corps, then twig leaders, then to advanced class grads, then to EVEN THOSE APPLYING FOR THE ADV. CLASS. That's how evil leaders control. That's how evil swallows up any light. And, that's the kind of evil that resides at hq.

Starting with......a molten idol in the Victor Paul Wierwille auditorium, right there in the lobby greeting everyone and holding his bible high ....wherein for years, this idol was at the top of one's prayer list? Funny how twi perceives devil spirits behind every piece of trash, but can't see the IDOLATRY that the trustees have peddled for decades.

waysider.......it's WORSE than that... Speak no evil.....see no evil......hear no evil Trustees were perpetuating the evil of SEE NO LIGHT, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. ....keeping wayfers on the hamster wheel, the twi-servitude treadmill, going no where. ....keeping them ensnared in a meaningless, pathetic, dependent life. ....harassing them IF they started asking questions to stir critical though processes. ....provoking them with guilt and shame and fear of leaving twi. ....teaching greasespot doctrine that the adversary will pounce if they ever leave. ....teaching fear as if the walls of protection would come tumbling down. ....pontificating sickness, destitution, death to all the one's extended family. Yeah.....THAT is the kind of evil that resides at hq!

For those who were around martindale's twi in 1993/94......he cherry-picked the scriptures and then, taught THREE different types of evil. Of course, like all twi-mogs.....he DIRECTED his teachings at field corps and followers and those evil church leaders. See, this was a period where twi was "sanctifying itself" (set apart) from the onslaught of evil people/spirits. As best I recall, the three evils he taught were: 1) kakos -- destructive evil 2) poneros -- harassing evil 3) phaulos -- non-productive evil Of course, the eeeeeevil was everywhere else, EXCEPT AT THE TRUSTEE LEVEL. Of course, the eeeeeevil was from Cgeer remnants, JAL supporters, corps cop-outs. Of course, the eeeeeevil was to be "smoked out with the verd" doncha know. All that *9 all the time* schtick or casting out of devil spirits, trustees could NOT do. See, they couldn't go beyond what they'd been taught.....and wierwille never taught them. :biglaugh:/>/>/>/>/>/> In the months to follow, the region men were given their marching orders to clean up the limbs, clear the debris in the way tree. Surely, THAT was the reason that twi was bogged down and not reaping fruit. So, with all the depth perception of a blind man, region guys went thru the limbs.....confronting limb coordinators, corps, and anyone who might be in this *evil* category. Those on the edges of involvement, those attending night school, those less enthusiastic than what was perceived to be acceptable...... were put in the SUSPICIOUS CATEGORY until this marked follower proved otherwise. Where this purge was chronically listed.....I don't exactly remember. The purges were coming in waves and if I recall correctly: 1)loyalty purge, 2)homo purge, 3)non-productive purge, 4)debt purge, 5)mortgage purge, 6)wap class purge. Keep them jumping.....keep them subservient......keep them off-balance Anywho......back to those THREE evils: destructive, harassing, and non-productive. From the trustee perspective.....IF you were questioning or obstructing authority, then that notably was "destructive to da ministry." Or, if you were laying back and piecing together twi's roller coaster ride.....well then, that sure looks non-productive. See how that works from the jaded juveniles [spiritually] at hq? Keeping the spotlight AWAY FROM HQ was the name of this exercise. Were the trustees exerting destructive evil in the name of God? Yep. Were the trustees entangling and harassing the simple of heart? Yep. Were the trustees pompous, oppressive, and non-productive rulers? Yep. If one were to study that phaulos evil in its context, then one could easily make the case that twi REFUSED to come to the light [Jesus Christ] lest their deeds be reproved [John 3:20]. But hey, this isn't the doctrinal thread, so I digress...... So, twi.....mix those THREE EVILS TOGETHER and take a big gulp. :beer:/>/>/>/>/>/> .

Again, the tiresome, DOUBLE-STANDARD treatment.... 1) The ruling class claims to "have the verd"....the pleebs MUST believe to pay for it. 2) The elitists claim obedience to God....the pleebs must SHOW obedience to leaders. 3) The directors always have their hand out....but don't you dare ask for a hand up. 4) VPW always claimed God was his sufficiency....yet stayed on church payroll till 1957. 5) Fleecing the wayfers is twi's one-trick-pony......its the only show they have $$$$ .

WW....."Would twi give some back if absolutely needed" WAS a subject that came up during one of martindale's corps meetings. After lots of scoffing, scolding and even to consider such a ludicrous, devilish thought, martindale utilized this poignant attack on the ministry as a launching point to annihilate any further consideration. Needless to say, THAT was never brought before the trustees again......AND the corps couple who had broached the subject exited rather quickly. So, according to twi.....if you've got ANY plurality, give, give, give. BUT....if you EVER have a need, then go to God. <_<

The article lists 20 REASONS why your 20s are so important. Hence....more than just an economic, college-educated perspective. 1. Much of your wage growth happens in the first few years of your career. 2. Many of your most significant life events will take place in your 20s. 3. You’re very likely to meet your future spouse or partner in your 20s. 4. Your 20s are when you learn to have healthy relationships. 5. It’s the time to plan for future children (if you want them). 6. Your 20-something brain is still developing. 7. Criticism hurts more, but it can help you develop good habits. 8. Your personality is still developing. [in your 20s] 9. The 20s aren’t a time to just think about what you want to do, they’re the time to act on it. 10. It’s critical to maintain good mental health in your 20s. 11. It’s the time [in your 20s]to get really good at what you do. 12. Learning is easier in your 20s than it will be in your 30s and beyond. 13. It’s the time [in your 20s] to set the stage for good lifelong habits. 14. Your 20s are the ideal time to start saving for retirement. 15. There isn’t as much time as you think there is. 16. In your 20s, nearly every avenue is open, and you have nothing to lose. 17. You’ll build up networks personally and professionally. [in your 20s] 18. You can redefine your family. [in your 20s] 19. Financial decisions in your 20s will impact your finances for life. 20. Your 20s are when you learn to be an adult. OR.....get involved in a deceptive cult and flitter away a decade or two.

"That’s no reason to stress if you’re feeling a bit off track, but here we highlight some of the reasons why you shouldn’t just drift through your 20s aimlessly; they’re actually a pretty critical part of who you are and who you’ll become." As I noted, this article is, indeed, PROMOTING their product from statistical averages......sociological, scientific, economic, and psychological studies. Is college for everyone? Nope. The article was not written to contest that. Are there exceptions to the rule? Sure. Many could point to Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, entrepreneurs, start-ups, drop-outs, inventors, computer geeks, shark tank-types, those in their 60s, etc. etc. That's NOT the point of the article [read the bold-face quote above]. Doesn't every facet of life.....business, college, church or movement.....set forth the BENEFITS of their product? You know, like twi's green card. Well, in this article.....these are the 20 benefits that a **college-educated** life will enhance one's living. And, really.....why wait? why drift and wait till you're 35-something? The sooner you get this education......the more likely one's life's trajectory is exponentially enhanced. How could this article be considered rubbish? And notice, at present......no one has posted on this thread to give us *the perspective of this article, being college-educated in their 20s.* What happens then? If someone exemplified this path [from the article] and went on to get their masters or doctorate.....and retired quite wealthy.......shouldn't he/she be commended? And, say....this same person was actively involved in parenting, church, community, board member on projects.....their education, skills, status, wealth could open doors for others who need opportunity. I could cite examples of my own siblings in this category....maybe, you could too. But on the other hand, in such achievement.......will some show contempt for say, a retired businessman who followed this model, in their spiritual choices and not following Jesus? Is that a contempt from twi-days? Really? One can't do BOTH.....be college-educated AND be a Christian? Who planted this contempt for higher education [starting in our 20s]? I am not one of those. Both of our children's births were dynamically impacted by Christian doctors who intricately made professional decisions that impacted our lives. Sure, I applaud those who have gone on to get their degrees later in life......but it remains, apparent to me, that this article has many sound points. Does that threaten who I am or the choices I made? Not at all. Most likely, those who DID as this article recommends did not get entangled in twi and thus HAVE LITTLE REASON to frequent this GS website. .

"Dr. Jay also states in her book that 80% of life’s most significant events take place by age 35." Hmmmm......well, I suppose there is some truth to that, but 80% ? Of course, one's involvement in twi wouldn't necessarily count the childhood years [unless you grew up in twi] .....but geez, all those formidable years after high school and/ in college and diving into cult classes? Oh, my. And then.....staying for 12 years? 24 years? And.....the brain was STILL developing. :blink:/> .

Is there any wonder why twi's "sandbox" has impacted so many detrimentally?

If there was ever a reason to regret "playing in twi's sandbox"..... .....THIS is it. 20 Reasons your 20s are so critical Here are the first two reasons: 1. Much of your wage growth happens in the first few years of your career. 2. Many of your most significant life events will take place in your 20s. Sure....this article is from a college-educated point of view, not from someone searching to get off drugs, or find spiritual meaning in life. I get that. And, for some, myself included.....the Lord has restored much of what *the locust had eaten*.....but it does make me wonder. Note: Opportunity loss is loss, indeed.

In my search for information, I came across this thread: Rosalie's Retirement Plan and Oldskool's post brought to mind wierwille's need-basis teachings. FROM THE ONSET......wierwille set-up his employee-salary plan on an ILLEGAL basis. Apparently the IRS did not take a favorable view to twi's "need-basis" setup. Ouch. So, all those years of lauding Rhoda as twi's example of living on a need-basis, the essence and right-ness of it.......it gets smacked down as ILLEGAL. I suppose it shouldn't, but it never ceases to amaze me HOW MANY THINGS WIERWILLE DID THAT WERE OFF-KILTER.....ie con, scam, coercion. Rhoda was the first secretary hired by twi on a full-time basis and wierwille pays her the least amount that he could. But then.....makes a grand teaching on his "wisdom." Yep, here this single Mennonite woman needed a job and wierwille pays her bare minimum......and she can play the piano as well. Lordy be, what a blessing.....and her example is a cornerstone of twi's salary payment plan. Sure, I could understand how twi struggled 1957-1967, or whatever......but then, wierwille NEVER saw the discrepancy in this need-basis plan. And further, that he BUILT A DOCTRINE around it. Call it spiritual, herald it from the brc podium, laud it as a cornerstone.......BUT the irs steps in and, BOOM, it was illegal. And, the frustrating thing for me is.......THIS was another one of the things that had me scratching my head during my interim year at hq AND subsequent years on staff. At the time, one of my wife's coworkers, 10th corps grad had requested MUCH MORE NEED than we had. Whenever we visited them in St. Marys at their apartment, they would show us another piece of new furniture that they'd just bought. And, sure.....maybe his wife's mother was sending them money for extras, I don't know. The thing that was concerting to me was this "need-basis" salary doctrine in twi. Even then, in early 1982......I strongly suspected it was based on a faulty foundation. Again.....it only validates my critical thinking patterns back then. And, here's the kicker......Wierwille died at the *right* time. 1) Wierwille died before an onslaught of questions on his doctrine and teachings. 2) He died shortly after the IRS audit and changes were coming to twi. 3) He died before allegations of sexual predation came storming to the forefront. 4) He died and Geer dutifully did everything to prolong wierwille adulation, legacy. 5) He died of cancer and upper-leaders kept dissenters from "law of believing" questions. 6) He died in isolation, solitude....instilling more "mystique" and adulation. 7) He died.....see, in "giving his eye and life for the outreach of God's word." 8) He died.....a *martyr* and his legacy, as such, lives on.

Thanks, Yana.....for posting this. From article: "Whereas Bill Gothard has exhibited a 40-year pattern of moral failure, abuse of spiritual authority, and mishandling of Scripture, and is therefore disqualified from Christian ministry according to Titus 1 and I Timothy 3, we believe that the only biblical course of action is for Bill Gothard to step down from all ministry and leadership positions, publicly repent of the above sins, and exhibit fruit in keeping with repentance (Matt. 3:8)." If there HAD BEEN true ministers serving in twi, then this DISQUALIFICATION OF VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE would have put twi-followers on notice in 1982. And the article concludes: ....."But for the sake of our younger brothers and sisters in Christ who are still in danger, we refuse to look the other way and allow the abuse to continue." And thus, GreaseSpot stays relevant by speaking of twi's danger.

In reading all 4 accounts......Lizzie's, Annette's, Grace's, and Charlotte's here is what stood out to me: 1) Incremental steps to cross boundary lines 2) Ever-so-subtle gauging of young girls' body language 3) My parents became involved in the seminars in the early 1970s 4) Inappropriate touching, grooming, etc. AND 5) My story is that I was brought to HQ HQ? You know....that all-encompassing awe-struck pinnacle of the infallible. .

Add to this......friends, spouses, fiancés, relationships. Sure, maybe you are ready to speak out and confront a situation, but you stand a good chance of being black-listed. Do you have proof? Are there any witnesses? Will they, in turn, speak as well....or will they cower under pressure? And, what about your spouse? How will affect her? In this *totalitarian* rule there was no middle ground. Few dissenters ever were heard in the open. Words were measured even among "friends" and certainly to leadership. Some times, even casual conversation was challenged as "off the Word." The pecking order sure had lots of peckers to keep the *little people* in line.* Thus, one's dissent was to be hidden. That's why "good people" who seemed blessed and all.....overnight, poof, were gone. But....who was watching the Watchmen?

Yeah, and then......the next generation, little-kid moneyhands SEES the backrooms of meetings, briefcases and all and STILL goes in eyes wide open. Desiring to be fast-tracked to leadership. What could possibly go wrong? :unsure:/>/> .

Every mandate empowered twi......ie every program, every representative (corps) was deemed a commissary with duties to enforce twi-doctrine and policy. And, with each passing year, the 'empowerment' of individuals decreased. Say, for example.....you took pfal in 1972 and it changed your life. Further, you believed to be empowered by holy spirit within. You claimed the scriptures as your sole foundation and walked accordingly. Yep, Christ-in-you....and YOU can do ALL THINGS THRU CHRIST, etc. etc. To many, it was bigger than the message of being born-again; it was a pathway of empowerment! BUT......with each passing year, this message is silenced and replaced with "Obedience to spiritual leadership is the highest form of twi-allegiance." Of course, its backed up by cherry-picked scriptures like .....safety in a multitude of counselors [Proverbs]. Slowly, the erosion is taking place. Wind erosion [boastful hot air]. Water erosion [watering down the scriptures]. And, without even realizing it.....the top soil is gone and the ground is barren. Within a number of years, the *favored policy* is to have every branch coordinator be a corps grad. Further, the expressed goal is to have every department head at hq a corps grad. And, to work on staff, one needs to at very least be an advanced class grad. Ultimately, every twig coordinator *should* be a corps grad. Fast-forward ten years [1982]......and what do you see? Obedience up and down the line. Twig teachings are refried beans from the way magazine....oftentimes, read at twig with examples of how it blessed one's life. Nearly all questions, at least publically, have ceased. Besides, to even consider questions was to *give place to the devil*....and we all know how THAT was taught in pfal. The free-thinkers, the independent-types, and the rebel-rowsers had ALREADY headed out the exit doors years before. If you didn't see it....you just weren't paying attention. Perhaps, wierwille had not noticed how all this was playing out? Perhaps, his plagiarizing and slothfulness had dulled him to the reality of *spiritual boots on the ground* or any number of analogies one could make. There are likely a number of reasons.....but I contest, that wierwille KNEW the resistance that was building but refused to acknowledge it. He as much admitted this *lack of obedience from corps* on a couple of corps meetings, but he simply refused to delve into the root cause. Maybe, he realized that INDIVIDUAL EMPOWERMENT was what they were demanding all along.....you know, the things promised in pfal before the bait-and-switch. Here's the ticket: call them "believers".....messaging is everything.

Yes.......twi has ALWAYS been a revolving door. Seems like Dr. EE H!ggins (1958?) wasn't all that impressed. And really......there were REASONS why some never even took vpw's classes. Some people could sense the manipulation and exploitation from observation.

Perhaps, it might be somewhat insightful to address this: 1) For me, it was not 30 years (in twi) 2) For me, I had major disagreement with Cgeer's paper (1986) 3) And, away from twi (with small children) during turbulence 4) And, kept a healthy skepticism in back pocket (vindication) 5) Helping others was more of my focus than twi-mandates 6) By 1993, more twi-legalism.....yet, I was far away 7) Twi was like a moving train....when was it best to jump off? 8) The scriptures are full of accounts of *discerning the times* 9) With wife, kids and others....when to best disentangle ourselves? Quite frankly, I'd been pondering much of this in 1993.... and exited a few years later. But really......my story is not that much different than those who jumped into an offshoot for 10-15 years after twi. I have several friends who went into the John Lynn-personal prophesy-momentus fiasco.....having to extricate themselves from yet ANOTHER cult.

I am. And you? Life, family, business, home, neighbors, community.....lots of successes. And, like so many have shared......there's so much more than posting on GS. Obviously, I could expound on personal achievements and accomplishments, but this forum is About the Way not me. Hopefully, a few things I've shared has helped others to understand more scripture and some of the snares of the evil one.

Sure, wierwille bloviated about how much he worked the 'word' and all......but really?? In my mind, it was SO OBVIOUS that there was much more to biblical research than the sliver of pfal. Anyone who owned a Companion Bible and perused the 197 Appendixes could see that twi was only scratching the surface of WHAT OTHERS, BEFORE, HAD RESEARCHED. Now, let me state for the record.......I believe that THIS was an unspoken truth: there were many others pressing forward to research beyond wierwille's "findings." The 7th corps man, D@n McC@unaghy went from corps graduation to get a PhD in one of Chicago's theological seminaries. Some of his work appeared in those corps newsletters or GMIR...or whatever that research outlet was called. Others too. Mike Gud0rf, 9th corps, went on to further study and was commended, by twi, for doing so. Of course, those in twi's research department had parameters, but.....if truth be told.... I believe that there were a few mavaricks in there as well. Christ_ph St__p didn't seem to agree with twi-inclusiveness. By 1983-86, twi was moving into developing an Aramaic work and furthering this work. Lots of stuff.....the more I think about it, the more these memories come flooding back.