skyrider

Nice post, Rocky. I like how you phrased that..... "those who fell in with them on the BACK SIDE OF THE CULT JOURNEY.

Mike, did you read this post? This is a test. Please acknowledge, at least, that you saw this post.... rather than using evasion tactic. At least, then... I would hope that we are PROGRESSING in the form of a healthy discussion. GSC is a discussion forum... NOT a preaching pulpit.

5. Immersion -- introduction of new classes, programs to reinstitute a new trajectory of your life [ 4. Intimidation -- I covered earlier in terms of speaking in tongues with interpretation in a twig setting. This process started ever-so-subtly and intensified thru classes, programs, isolation.] Immersion by Webster-definition is.... 1) to dip, drop or plunge into a liquid, 2) to absorb deeply 3) the state of becoming hidden or of disappearing from view as in an eclipse (occultation). With each class or program we participated in this cult, our authentic-self and individuality was disappearing from view. All of those advanced study classes.... The Way Tree, Defeating the Adversary, Renewed Mind, Christian Family and Sex, etc..... those classes plunged us deeper into group mentality and cult identity. The Rock of Ages festivals and Word in Business Conferences eclipsed community, social and the business workplace and replaced our family goals, careers and vacation time with herd-fest mentality meetings. Soon, all of our networking and contacts were with cult-believers only. Immersed in cult world fully and completely. Is there any wonder why it takes YEARS, decades even, to dismantle the cult-structure in our brains? And, for way corps.... in my opinion, it became exponentially worse. We were saturated and immersed in-residence for two years 24/7. Anyone who thinks that they can just *walk away* without some serious effort or therapy is deceiving themselves. This abuse lingers in the soul for years and decades. Only by getting back to "high ground" can one find safety, security and prosperity from the destructive nature of cults.... who thrive on one's weaknesses and dependency.

3. Isolation -- within weeks, you are subtly being isolated from friends, family, information, past activities Within a matter of weeks of attending twig fellowship, the process of isolation has begun. You have entered the "recruitment stage".... to be another soldier in the cult's army. With phone calls and constant undershepherding, they have one immediate goal to achieve.... getting you into the pfal class. It all sounds so harmless. Who could ever imagine the path you'd have to tread just by taking a bible class? But pfal is far more sinister than just a bible class: Class sessions, generally, are scheduled for 4 nights per week... for 3 weeks. Lasting nearly 3 hours per night.... with only a strict 10-minute break. No questions allowed. Every session is packed with a volume of information.... "information overload." Assertions are made on biblical integrity that are not backed by scripture. Wierwille adds private interpretation to several conflicting verses of scripture. Stories are injected that add "zingers" of fear and/or confusion...ie little boy killed by car. "Every woman in the kingdom belongs to the king".... gives license to his sexual predation. Wierwille plants seeds of doubt when he denigrates churches/denominations. Recruitment begins in earnest...."To stand with the ministry that taught you the Word." Holy spirit field is paramount to vp's ministry.... even though his SIT is repetitive. Etc. etc. After pfal, you have come to a crossroads. Do you go back to your friends, family and activities... or, do you stand with "the ministry?" Some experts say that it takes three months to break a habit. Well, after about three months of attending twigs and taking pfal you have been re-formatted to be a cult follower. Now granted, the vast majority of pfal class grads EXITED and were never seen again at this juncture.... but for those who stayed, the isolation from life and society only increased from there. Two roads diverged before me..... I had a choice before me. Which one had the better claim? Robert Frost poem..... Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, And sorry I could not travel both And be one traveler, long I stood And looked down one as far as I could To where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, And having perhaps the better claim, Because it was grassy and wanted wear; Though as for that the passing there Had worn them really about the same, And both that morning equally lay In leaves no step had trodden black. Oh, I kept the first for another day! Yet knowing how way leads on to way, I doubted if I should ever come back. I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I— I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. ~~~~~~ A difference that changed the trajectory of my life.

Nasty descriptions of you? Mike, when you continue to agitate, stir conflict and refuse to engage those who challenge your statements and hypothesis....AND you get called on the carpet for it.....THAT is not "nasty descriptions of you." Why is it that you continuously make these bold [false] declarations of wierwille's writings knowing that he heavily plagiarized throughout his whole life? Why is it that you immediately run for cover and play the "victim card" whenever someone challenges your statements? You see, Mike.... you can't have it BOTH WAYS. You cannot come to GSC and make these false assertions without being challenged. All of this is antithetical to a discussion forum where facts, opinions and judgments are volleyed back and forth to further understanding. Mike, you first posted on GSC on December 27, 2002 with a preaching pronouncement entitled "Dr's Last Teaching - LOST for 17 years!" That thread alone expanded to 43 pages. After more than two decades of posting, I have long passed the threshold of giving you the benefit of doubt and surmise that you come to GSC for the sole satisfaction of CONFLICT. You like to agitate others. You seem to gain a sense of purpose by stirring the pot of conflicting statements for self gain [mental superiority over others]. And, although the vast majority disagrees with your statements... you are undeterred to keep coming back for more conflict. When it becomes abundantly obvious that your declarations are wrong and absurd... you use the evasive tactic of avoidance. You, instead, just move on to another conflicting statement or teaching. At no time, do you stop and reflect on your position. Why? Because in your mind.... you are right and all others are wrong. You are like a castaway on an island of your own making. And, you like it that way. .

No, you are evasive, poking and prodding a conflict. Some might think you are the one being an agitator, a provocateur.

Neither did I.....neither did I. To The Very End.....Wierwille's Wantonness

Exactly ~~~~~~~~~~~ Mike: "When he was in fellowship he did great things for us. THAT is what I prefer to focus on and magnify." Me: "When was wierwille "in fellowship?" When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident?" Mike: "It's mostly in the written works, but recorded teachings and personal appearances helped also." TRANSLATION: Mike makes these grandiose declarations about wierwille's life and "greatness"..... but then gives evasive replies to back up wierwille's new man nature in Christ. This evasiveness has all the hallmarks of a snake oil representative selling a product from a snake oil company. Always barking bold assertions of wierwille's wares, but only in the shadowy form of generalities. Pfffttt. .

Another evasive answer, at best.

What Is The Way Corps? Not ancient walls and ivy-mantled towers Where dull denominational traditions Rule with heavy hand Believer’s deeply springing powers. Not spacious pleasure courts Or lofty temples of athletic fame Where devotees of sports mistake a pastime For life’s highest game. Not fashion or renown Or wealthy patronage and rich estate; No, none of these can crown The Way Corps with light And make it truly great. But equipped believers, ambassadors strong and wise Who teach because they love the teacher’s task And find their richest prize In eyes that open, and in minds that ask. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE DISCONNECT: The poem reads that it is NOT ancient walls and ivy-mantled towers where dull denominational traditions RULE WITH HEAVY HAND... [or an isolated "headquarters" in rural Ohio that dictates and mandates policies where the chain-of-command leadership must be obeyed]. Maybe wierwille got hung up on the words "denominational traditions" and thought he'd escaped denominational policies and traditions... when in fact, twi became the very thing that wierwille seemingly denounced: Authoritarian control over others.

Exactly right And, of course..... no one EVER discussed or confronted wierwille with his "lo shanta" repetition or interpretation. Too intimidated to even think the thought of pointing out the obvious to wierwille's repetition. Why didn't HE practice the alphabet....ie "a shonta" "b shonta" "c shonta" ??? According to his limited vocabulary in tongues (and interpretation).... wierwille was a neophyte (a beginner). He never grew "big and fat spiritually" by speaking in tongues much in his daily life, did he? The huckster sold his snake oil to the gullible. Many, if not most, were just too intimidated to ask the challenging questions. Wierwille, in his projected power and control over others, planned it that way. He ruled with fear and intimidation. Notice that wierwille didn't want anything to do with the Intermediate Class. Why is that? Didn't he pontificate over and over again.... that "he had dedicated his life to the holy spirit field?" Yet, he bails out on upgrading the intermediate class. Why? He assigned Earl Burton to teach that class.

Mike, Since you asserted wierwille's new man nature was evident and he did great things when he was "in fellowship with God"..... I would like some examples of this. Can you elaborate? If it was SO EVIDENT..... then you must have DOZENS of examples. Thanks for your reply. ~~~~~~~

Exactly. Progress to a fuller comprehension of the topic at hand.

4. Intimidation -- slowly, but surely, your authentic self is being re-formatted to a cult follower Through the years, I have often wondered if twi's information on "the worship manifestations" was utilized as a tool of intimidation. For example, you go to your first twig fellowship.... and within the first 20 minutes, the twig coordinator instructs someone to stand, speak in tongues and interpret. As a newcomer, who never witnessed this before.... you are stunned with silence. What was THAT? After twig, you have questions and the twig coordinator tells you that all true believers can manifest the gift of the holy spirit. Really? So, these believers can do something that bears witness of God's presence that church people can't? Not until they are fully instructed comes the reply. For the next few days (with follow-up phone calls and coercion).... you ponder these questions. So, after much consideration you decide to attend another twig fellowship. Again, same thing. You might find yourself intrigued AND intimidated at the same time. This person, these people, have a "superior knowledge" of something in the Bible that you do not have. It's intimidating to be around them when you feel inferior to them. So, you have a choice to make: Do you plunge forward and take this pfal class OR chalk it up to disinformation bordering on the delusional and walk away. I'm not saying that there is no such thing as speaking in tongues or interpretation of tongues in the Bible..... what I'm saying is that I do not believe twi taught its application correctly of when, where and how it was used in the ecclesia of our time. It's not just rote repetition that is plugged into "a believer's meeting" every time people come together to teach, pray, worship. Nor is it to be used as a vanity show of "look at me." In its simplest terms, I believe that we were taught incorrectly on these worship manifestations. And, how do you explain wierwille's repetitive LO SHANTA MALIKASETO, LO SHANTIE? That's a rhetorical question... no need to drag this thread into that area again. But I do see this as an intimidation factor that was used in twi to coerce movement and taking more classes to climb the ladder towards "full spiritual maturity." Whatever THAT was. LOL .

That's the thing about a clone factory..... no originality. Thus, it stands to reason that wierwille was not *original* anything. He replicated (copied) the works of others ad infinitum throughout his whole life thinking that somehow THAT constituted "greatness." And, with this pathological disorder, he set up a training program that mass-assembled copies of himself, the prototype. Further enhancing this delusional approach.... he highlighted a poem and tweaked its title to "What is the Way Corps?" wherein it referenced "the deeply springing powers of a believer unlike the contrasting ivory towers wherein dull denominations rule." That has DELUSION written all over it. Which is all a fascinating study in and of itself. That wierwille could NOT see the disconnect.

Haha…. that’s funny. Being a farm boy, we did that with our chickens as well. At the time, I wasn’t repulsed by the slaying of a few chickens. It’s not like we gave them names…. and later, we out in the back shed to kill Chelsea Chicken. Now, my angus heifer named Blackie that I raised in 4-H… was a different story. As an 11-year old, I didn’t seem to grasp the fact that she would be sold at the end of the year at the local livestock auction. Then it dawned on me that I had raised my “pet angus” as a 4-H project to document costs and analysis to the point of sale for the slaughterhouse. Sad day. But I would say that it was a far more common sight when we were pheasant hunting and needed to wring the necks of wounded birds. These were wild game birds, so I held no attachment with them. So, Silence of the Pheasants. No weeping Clarice.

Familia and fig pep I like. Wheat berries.... no thanks. That was hands-down the worse breakfast served at Emporia.

Does it come with a supply of honey, too?

I do not recall ever attending a Sunday Night phone hook-up until 1989, 1990. This was the start of those *rebuilding years* after 80% of corps exited en masse. Before then, it was laugh-out-loud ridiculous to attend a Sunday phone hook-up (unless it was Pentecost Sunday) because there was so much activity and good teachings at the state level.

Zero. Do I win a prize?

What wierwille REALLY WAS...... was a man of the flesh. He was a deceiver, a con man... play-acting the role of "a spiritual man." In fact, since his narcissism knew no bounds.... wierwille KEPT INCREASING his "greatness." In his skinny-tie filming of the 1967 pfal class, wierwille dubbed himself as "The Teacher." Just write The Teacher, Box 328, New Knoxville, Ohio 45871. By the mid-70s, his inner circle and enablers kept referring to him as "The Man of God" (a title that vpw fully encouraged and embraced). Then, by the early 80's, he laid claim to the title "Our Father in the Word" (of which, I guess teaching pfal = fathering people in 'the Word'). And lastly, to transcend all other labels, Chris Geer pegged the summit of wierwille's legacy as "A Patriarch" ( the father and ruler of a family or tribe). YET, wierwille's life was befitting to NONE of those titles. The Book of Timothy chapter 3 specifically outlines for us the office of a bishop, an overseer. What was wierwille's report card on THIS LIST OF REQUIREMENTS? Dismal to non-existent. He was not prepared in all points [blameless], nor vigilant, nor sober of sound thinking, not patient, but a striker, a brawler and contentious. Wierwille was puffed up with pride as he looked down his nose at others. He fell into reproach and snares of the devil. Need I go on? Many were deceived by his stage-presence. And, wierwille was well-aware of this deception.... that's why he rarely let his mask slip. But when it did slip, one caught a glimpse of a vindictive, mean man.

When was wierwille "in fellowship?" When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident? For instance, was wierwille in fellowship with God when he shut down his LIVE TEACHINGS at pfal '77 and had his desk brought out so that he could sit and read scripture verses while he sipped his Drambuie? Was wierwille's new man nature in play when he tweaked Rev. Oral Robert's teaching on "The Fourth Man" and pawned it off as "The Red Thread?" Even in his "finest moments"...... (cough, cough) the charlatan wierwille was play-acting the part of a spiritual man of God. He was a serial plagiarist who had rarily a thought, an idea, or a teaching that he could absolutely call his own. He fooled LOTS of people along the way, but did you ever notice that it was those closest to him.....valets, bodyguards, pilots, research men, etc....abandoned him even BEFORE he retired in 1982? Wierwille certainly didn't allow "on-again / off-again" men around him. He demanded commitment, focus and even near perfection. How often did some of us corps see wierwille berate a corps person for the simplest of mistakes? Wierwille was a chain-smoking drunkard, an unforgiving taskmaster, a bully to even the weakest corps member, a striker when irritated, a life-long misogynist and sexual predator. Anyone who CONTINUES TO THIS DAY to give wierwille a pass is a devoted sycophant and possibly a hidden narcissist himself to garner self-referential attention. Peace.

Limbs and Regions had these names and mailing listings in order to promote outreach in their areas. Each month, Grapevine Newsletters were sent out that included a short letter from the limb/region coordinator, announcements, and upcoming events. Things like Resurrection Sunday Events, Pentecost Weekend, Coffee Houses in the area, Music Festivals, Travel Itineraries, Branch Meetings and of course... any time wierwille or martindale were coming to the state. Announcements and congratulations were often included in the monthly newsletter to couples who had babies and those who achieved military or academic recognition. Thus, this in-house communication at the state level was pertinent to stay connected and keep churning outreach in the area. By extension, all of this activity provided a "hub of local connectivity" that bypassed headquarters altogether. Sure, many people got their Way Magazine and Sunday Service tapes in the mail, but not everyone. It was well-known in the mid-to-late 70's and early 80's that twi had to guilt and coerce followers to keep their subscriptions current. Oftentimes, there was so much activity locally that people didn't see the need to *stay connected* with a central headquarters far, far away. And, the farther one lived from Ohio.... the less people felt connected to hq. Consequently, places like California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Florida (in my opinion) held powerful, strategic allegiance with their followers that other states did not have. And, obviously.... the further away from headquarters, the less the "big dogs from headquarters" visited the state. Which, again, it came as little surprise to me that Rev. Doug Seed in California was one of the first states to break away from twi's grasp when disarray ensued in the mid-80's. .

Accidental? I'm not quite sure how you derived that from my post. I would say that the forming of these splinter groups is methodical...... ie these corps saw an opportunity to break away at some point and took actionable steps to incrementally break from twi. In the 1980's, those corps men (broadly speaking) were mostly limb and region guys. They already had a listing of names, phone numbers and addresses in their files. I know that because I certainly had access to this information at the Oklahoma Limb. With strategic planning and incremental steps, it wouldn't be a "leap of faith" for people to stop their affiliation with mothercult-twi and go local. Heck, even in the church denominations, we see this shifting from time to time. People will follow someone they trust rather than brand name only. .