skyrider

Families together during the holidays is bedrock to society. Commercials, holiday songs, movies, and nearly every fabric of life connects the two.....holidays and family. Yet....imo, wierwille and co. deceptively ushered in its own version of "family," a pseudo-family. ....if you ever went on the WOW field, you spent the holidays with your "WOW family." ....if you were on staff at hq, twi revised holiday songs to concoct a twi-family of sorts. ....after all, twi promotes itself as "the true household" and all that jazz ....heck, pictures of the trustees were sent out at holiday time Add the "uncle harry" lingo "uncle howard" --- around 1991 Oooh, isn't that just sweet? They really DO care. :anim-smile:/> Today, all of that past sleight-of-hand seems so surreal. Every cult does it.....Moonies, Heaven's Gate, Branch Davidians, etc. Didn't Charles Manson lull others in with this claptrap too? Thankyouverymuch......BUT, this holiday I will be spending time with MY family. .

During my 24-year twi involvement.....The most fiery, sustained confrontations from wierwille were leveled at dissenting leadership. Nothing else comparable to it! The most divisive, vicious, vein-popping, profanity-spewing and sustained-intensity periods of 'hatred' were unloaded in closed-corps meetings!! Three of such verbal attacks from wierwille are still vivid in my mind to this day..... Talk about toxic examples......you haven't seen THE REAL WIERWILLE unless you were in closed-door meetings with him. Check out the following thread. Most Fiery Confrontations .

And....not only were we categorized like Eve for questioning, wierwille flat-out told us that when it came to biblical research HE would tell us WHAT TO THINK. Where was the two-way dialogue? It is SO REFRESHING to have back-n-forth dialogue on subjects of interest. Twi was an indoctrination camp that suppressed ANY and ALL QUESTIONING.

Questions are a good thing.....as it stimulates an inquisitive mind to find answers. Dialogue, the interchange and discussion of ideas, concerns and matters.....yields encouragement. Insight, reaching far and wide.....can be measured by the quality of questions and healthy dialogue. Waydale and Greasespot Café have opened a treasure-trove of insight and learning. Time and time again, I marvel that so many HAD THE SAME QUESTIONS UNANSWERED after taking pfal that I had. But while pondering a certain question, and not taking the time to write it down.....the class presentation moved onward. Questions like "Why did pfal start with John 10:10 and, right from the get-go highlight the thief and his three-fold mission? Or, mention him at all.....in opening the class?" Surely, there was a better way to teach this class and highlight Christianity, without spotlighting the devil in the opening scene...ON STAGE? Questions, questions and more questions..... I had so many questions after the pfal class that never adequately got answered. But......simply asking questions implied that I didn't seem to get it. Like so many other forms of peer pressure, it was just so much easier to keep quiet and move along. YET......posters at Waydale and Greasespot have been coming forward since May 1999 asking these pertinent questions and exposing verses, Greek words, and contexts that are contrary to sound biblical doctrine. A MAJORITY OF POSTERS.....have moved on, yet left a trail of insight that still helps us to find our way thru the forest. Fifteen years of dialogue.....and some have gone on to start websites, dismantle the errors in pfal, or write books about twi-abuse. If you delve into some deep-thinking dialogue, check it out. One such website........A Biblical Analysis

Would you like to elaborate on this claim? By individual and personal confirmation, this website has helped countless numbers of people who needed answers. I stand firm on my conviction for freedom of speech and expression. If asking questions [in my first post] is offensive to someone, then am I supposed to refrain from questions?

Well......seeing as this thread, regarding older twi-folk are more than likely lumped into the same micro-managed schedules of what it means to be "committed and prevailing"..... I will happily answer that question. My concern is for the health and spiritual wellbeing of many friends of years gone by. See....that's the thing about genuine concern and its counterfeit [applied by trustees and arrogant narcissists]. Genuine compassion looks at the individual and ministers accordingly. Twi's bullying, manipulation and micromanagement are on the dark side of the spectrum. To this day, my wife and I still have MANY COUPLES IN TWI that are near and dear to heart. Having lived in six different states and all, we've crossed paths with plenty of good folk. Just because we've moved on and count our blessings, doesn't mean that we mark/avoid our love for them.....only cold hearted manipulation devised a skewing of the mark/avoid biblical truth. Guess I never considered the essence of friendships tied strictly to involvement with twi or not. Just because someone tosses aside the legalism of the Pharisees [ie--Apostle Paul] doesn't mean that he didn't cease to reach, teach and pray for those caught in the snares of seducing and deceiving doctrines of men.

My Original Post on this thread As more and more twi-followers reach the mid-60s age bracket, will they stay faithful to twi? .....will they continue to go out witnessing at the nearest malls? .....will these senior folk give 10-15% of their monthly income to twi? .....will these long-standing followers go to fellowship 3X a week? Twi has always been fixated on groupthink....and moving as a group. Will rosie and co. be willing to cut them some slack in their golden years? Or.....will local corps leaders continue to be hard-hearted and drive them away? Yes, many churches are having the same challenges. But....I tend to think that twi doesn't mind driving old folks away. Perhaps.....I'm wrong on this.

Bolshevik......thanks for more clarifying your points. Not sure about your comment on "Retirement was talked about in The Way often enough since the 80s." I was on hq staff in the early 80s.....and there was VERY LITTLE TALK about retirement, except to say that vpee and co. pointed to Dorothy Owens and Rhoda Wierwille and Bernita Jess as examples of "who needs to retire?" And.....when wierwille was promoting to the sunset corps his **build a cabin at Gunnison and when you die it becomes twi property** there were NO TAKERS. Fast Forward to 1995-1996......and this retirement topic was addressed by martindale in a corps meeting. As full-time corps staff, one couple requested more information about twi's retirement policy and how they [this couple] should be planning for their retirement. Well, after lcm scoffed at the audacity of being presented with the question, he got MORE AGITATED as he attempted to explain twi's stance on retirement. Within another five minutes, and martindale was yelling at the couple for insinuating that the board of directors didn't have the corps' best interest in mind. From what I'd heard back in like 2004.....Rosalie [finally] established a semblance of a retirement package amongst the staffers. Reports seemed to indicate that twi's lawyers were heavily involved in recommending this in twi's corporate arrangement to avoid further liability. But then again, some posters said that this was more of a cya-policy and not a heart/compassion/reasoned retirement policy. With my 24-year tenure in twi as corps/staff/clergy.....its just my opinion. .

You just did.

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Wierwille's adherence to this mog-doctrine was a throwback to Old Testament kings and prophets. Seemingly, vpee believed that he possessed the spiritual-mandate to rule over others. With his weekly teachings, supposedly, we were to direct our thoughts and actions accordingly. As the years passed, twi became more top-down dogmatic in all its practices. When one steps back and really looks at this discrepancy......."Did wierwille not believe the New Testament scripture relating to all being members in Christ?" Now, with regards to the followers...... .....Heck, most youth allegiances are social in nature. .....How many went to rock of ages just to see friends? .....Even after decades, some stay in twi because of familiarity. .....And, those who leave....hold onto some sort of relevancy. .....Very few ever step back and unravel the web of deception. .....Living in the moment is all that matters. But then....some of us find meaning in *connecting the dots.* Count me among the greasespotter-dotters.

We are never going to run out of oil. At least, not according to this article -- click here .

Bolshevik......this thread seems to be of great interest to you, yet you seem more intent on throwing curveballs and leaving. Perhaps, you would like to clarify your points?

Hmmm.....maybe more clarification? When I think of the vpw-myth, the whole leavened loaf..... it encompasses the alpha/omega of the "man of gawd" doctrine". Seemingly, wierwille convinced himself of this mogdom as well. Then, in 1982....when vpee was passing on the mantle to lcm, remember the DISPLAY OF OIL, MANTLE, VOWS, FOLLOWERS VOW TO FOLLOW NEXT MOG, etc. etc. etc. What was the message? The spirit of God would reside on new "man of God" and he would lead us forward. No matter how wierwille tried to pass on this "mantle of responsibility"..... lots and lots of corps leadership were NOT buying it. And, THAT was martindale. The allegiance to the myth did NOT take hold. Let alone when talking about.... Rosalie Fox Shumate Rivenbark. Sure, there is a core of followers......many are paid staff. Add families and relatives. The perks of connections. But really? It is TIME to turn out the lights.

Every year that Rosalie hangs on to the magical myth of derr mogdom.... it validates, to me, that the whole thing quacks like a duck. When a twice-divorced English teacher can self-bestow the mantle of a cult .....and long-standing followers march in lockstep to the hypocrisy .....and some, who finally exit, say that BOREDOM was a main reason .....and mortgages are NOT allowed, because its "going in debt" .....and the whole thing, sluggishly, hardly has a pulse isn't it TIME to turn out the lights? Maybe it's just me. I've always loathed HYPOCRISY.

The years are clipping by.....and 2015 is upon us. I remember commenting some 10 years ago, in 2005, that I believed Rosalie would try to sit in that prez-chair AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. Never mind that five-year guideline of rotating leadership in and out every five or so years. Nope. Rosalie had clawed her way to the top......and would not go away without a fight. Like so many of these "leaders".....what else do they have? They're too vested in the vpw-myth to go find a real job. Heck, one could easily argue that they are MYTH-HUSTLERS. :anim-smile:/> Whether these "leaders" believe in the wierwille-mantle mogship is more-or-less irrelevant. It's their perceived identity with attempts to stoke the dying embers of yesteryear. FIFTEEN YEARS AT THE HELM......and what has Rosalie accomplished? ....1) Dwindling staff employment ....2) Pathetic corps sign-ups ....3) Boring Sunday Snoozefests ....4) Classes crawling ever-so-slowly ....5) Hypocrisy at its zenith ....6) Etc. Hang in there, Rosalie for another 10 years. :biglaugh:/> I'd be disappointed if you didn't. Every dismal year exposes twi fraud. Welcome to all you lurkers who visit GS. .

The age gap in today's twi, where leaders rule over the followers, is less than in wierwille's day..... Twi's Trustees at PFAL '77 In 1977......vpw was 60 In 1977......ermal was 65 In 1977......harry was 70 Lots of us were 23-25 years old. Gee.......only like a 40 year age gap. Today's "average" age is what?....48? Lots of 55-63 year olds boosting the "average" age in twi. Even when Don and Howard were "installed"......many of us still thought of Howard as vpee's bus driver. lol .

Not exactly. H.E. Wierwille, Sec/Treasurer of twi died in 1977........age 70 Ermal Owens, vice prez of twi died in 1979...............age 69 And, in December 1979......vpee was 63 So, at WHAT AGE does one have to be to "understand how to deal with seniors?"

The teaching agenda can morph and proliferate in hundreds of directions.... .....the head man "chair-stringer" can TEACH a new crop of underlings before each class .....the refreshment lady can TEACH placement protocol and washing lipstick off styrofoam cups .....the audio/video guy can TEACH others how to cue background subliminal music during breaks .....the boss-man parking attendant can TEACH his assistant the logistics of saving space .....the nametag girl can TEACH her roommate the proper pinning placement of nametags or corsages .....the guru of bookstore displays can TEACH the layout patterns of hot twi items this month .....the class coordinator can TEACH his class crew on the impact of working together as a unit .....add listings of branch, state and root locales and everyone is a TEACHER See......it really IS a teaching ministry.

When teaching is the ONLY agenda..... ...1) Teaching alone becomes the lifeblood that pulsates throughout the organization ...2) A constant stream of pre-meetings head up the parade of meetings to follow ...3) The church pew is unmatched as the most proficient element of efficiency ...4) Twi, in attempts to be different, has taught thousands of "chair-stringers" ...5) Teaching is, if not toned in moderation, takes on an egotistical life of its own ...6) Years of allegiance to Teaching Only....incubates thousands of other teachers ...7) To stay on message, every subsequent teacher's script must be pre-approved ...8) Teaching begets more teachings, classes beget classes, sitting begets more sitting ...9) But....little do they realize, that the whole place becomes an echo chamber ..10) The echo chamber strengthens ideology and the process of indoctrination ..11) Yet, the mouth cannot say to the hands....I have no need of thee ..12) But there are no hands anywhere, because everyone is a mouth Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees

Same was said..... ....when building the BRC at hq ....when 6th Corps went to Emporia Campus ....when Kansas believers worked weekends at Emporia ....when Camp Gunnison needed upgrades and building projects ....when L.E.A.D. at Tinnie, NM had Way Builders sent in ....when young corps worked 80 hrs weeks to get ready for Rock of Ages ....when Word in Business and Profession Conferences were in your state ....when Advanced Class Specials were in Texas during Thanksgiving weekend ....all of this is standard modus operandi And.......THAT is the point. Where DID the money go? WHO pocketed all the money from ALL the FREE labor? Sure, if you're happy to give......give. BUT...it is a punch in the gut to realize that SERIAL SEXUAL PREDATION and EXPLOITATION were part and parcel to the "lying eyes and smiling faces."

Why does twi *insist* on this...1) Cook meals, 2) Housing guests, 3) In-house labor rather than going to a nice conference center or location? BECAUSE....In-house functions garner strategic advantages. ...1) Twi collects monies for housing/meals for "upfront participation fees" ...2) Free labor or cheap labor helps maximize profits for event ...3) In-house location gives them strategic superiority advantage ...4) Isolation from the outside promotes "believer vs unbeliever" concepts ...5) All imagery enhances that twi-leader is IN CHARGE ...6) Nearby believers will rally to help mow grass, wash dishes, clean bathrooms, etc. ...7) Headquarters [in this case, Gartmore] becomes the FOCAL POINT OF ALLEGIANCE ...8) And.....that's the way wierwille did it. For reasons listed, that is why GEER WOULD NOT consider alternative options as suggested above.

WordWolf......yes, it really is that simple. I always appreciate your insight and posts. You bring fair, objective analysis to the threads that I've visited. Thanks. One of the reasons why I, finally, decided to quit responding to the "strawman stuff" was because it only was a diversion and seemed to draw in personal jabs to take emphasis away from the topic. As you well know. Keep posting your insights. I appreciate it.

.....buy old .....buy used .....buy cheap .....buy run-down .....use free labor .....cook all meals .....bunk the guests .....guilt guests to work too THIS is the twi modus operandi..... Or, in other words.......MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY Short on money, need money, not enough investment money, fake life till-you-make-it money, etc. Running on a shoestring and exploitive prayer.... Here's an idea....Have the European WOW Festival at a nice conference location. Have SOMEONE ELSE provide housing, meals, set-up, clean-up....and then, Geer....YOU TEACH. Problems-s-s-s SOLVED.