skyrider

Well.....maybe, wierwille's org really was a tree-setup. The "root" guys had their heads in the dirt. Whereas, the "leaves" (simpletons) were reaching for the skies, the sunlight (sonlight) and freedom. But....even a couple months after pfal, I wondered why this "true believers with all power" stuff wasn't accorded the biblical references to "body of Christ with Christ as Head?" If wierwille's rightly-divided (cough, cough) ministry was so *great and powerful* why use "the way tree" terminology that the scriptures never reference? Besides.....in scripture, a tree can be either: 1) good, 2) evil.

Well, speaking of "implications"......wierwille, also, put *the way tree* into twi's lexicon to fabricate his organizational structure. Ugh......when one realizes how things fit like square pegs in round holes.

"The Red Thread" was always one of my most favorite VPW teachings. It's on STS tape number 904, recorded in March 1978. Until I read this thread, I had no idea he stole it from Oral Roberts." Four years later, 1982.......and wierwille was retiring at age 65. Think about that. Wierwille was STILL plagiarizing from others and NOT grasping the fullness of Jesus Christ throughout time and scripture. Why was the spirit within wierwille so dormant? Why did it take an Oral Roberts to deliver one of the most inspirational teachings that wayfers rejoiced in? Why the emphasis on the apostle Paul consistently? Why the statue of Timothy? In his striving to depart from denominational christianity and forge new territory, wierwille fixated on the days after Pentecost and the "way tree" of the first century. [Notice: the "way tree" jargon and analogy went down in flames.] Gee, maybe contentions were building in twi just like in Corinthians: Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? Imo, wierwille fell into the same contentious scenario.....and never sufficiently clarified the divisions. Wierwille stated that "the apostle Paul was his favorite in the Bible." Could it be that wierwille projected a bit of himself in this Paul, a Pharisee of the pharisees, coming out of religious hierarchy to take a stand?? New light? Running the show against organized religion? AND NOW, to this day.....because of wierwille teaching errors, there are still dozens and dozens of men like JAL teaching and propounding the Paul, early church, walk in newness of life doctrine. What about keeping the faith on the son of the Living God, Jesus Christ? We were not called to be Paulians. We were not called to be Jesusans What's wrong with being a Christian? Christ...the anointed, exalted, raised on high, seated, the right hand of God. How far off-kilter did twi go? And, is still going?

Rev. Oral Roberts' teaching on "The Fourth Man" schooled wierwille on the full exhaustive, expansive and exalted Jesus Christ. In Genesis, he is.........The seed of the woman In Exodus, he is..........The Passover lamb In Leviticus, he is.......Our High Priest In Numbers, he is.........Pillar of Cloud by Day, Pillar of Fire by Night In Deuteronomy, he is.....The Prophet like unto Moses In Joshua, he is..........The Captain of our salvation In Judges, he is..........The Lawgiver In Ruth, he is............Our Kinsmen Redeemer .............<snip> In Revelation, he is......The King of kings and Lord of lords

Exhibit A......pfal. The class started in the book of John. The class ended in Ephesians.....having done all, STAND. Wierwille's "ministry" always seem to treat Jesus Christ as looking in the rear-view mirror. The Church Epistles were the "big leagues" where true believers dared to tread.

For those who come to these GS forums and still subscribe to the Christian doctrine, both ex-twiers and innies......this subject is pivotal to understanding how twi's teachings and doctrine skewed the very essence of Christianity. The Pauline Epistles, the Church Epistles.......were the constant focus and teaching of whole Christian living. Sure, twi dipped into the four gospels to learn a truth or concept here and there.....but Wierwille's ministry taught heavily from the seven Pauline Epistles. In fact, too much emphasis on Jesus, Lord, Christ, Savior, Mediator, and those four gospels was frowned upon as that "Jesus stuff" was Old Testament, the fulfilling of the law. My heart rejoiced when Jesus Christ Our Passover came out. My heart further rejoiced when Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed was published .....yet, the date and time of year of his birth didn't need to be such defiant declaration by twi. Eyes and hearts focused on Jesus Christ and his life....was the point! Yet....in all my twi-years, wierwille only used the name of Jesus as a springboard, or steppingstone, on the way to a bigger point. Bigger point? What could have been bigger than the Second Adam who brought salvation, redemption, and eternal life to all mankind. It seemed to me that wierwille kept focusing and teaching on the Apostle Paul ..... noting "Paul was 'the man of God' for the First Century Church." See, Paul brought this 'new light' that was not known at the time. THEREFORE, Victor Paul Wierwille was 'the man of God' for the 20th Century. The deception was to incrementally skew the truth ever-so-slightly....and then, people were led to accept wierwille as "the man of God" for THIS generation. I leave you with DWBH's post from TLTF forum....in which he challenges JAL on this very issue. This confrontation and TOPIC has interested me for decades. .

Johniam.....it's okay if you want to divert this whole side discussion wherein "wierwille stated clearly that twi is THE true household with The Word"... It is UNDENIABLE that this was a core issue to the wierwille doctrine. Your diversion and non-answer is very telling. For years.....wierwille only trusted johnnie t0wndsend to instruct pfal classes. For years.....wierwille heralded scathing remarks to any corps leaders who dissented/left. All those splinter groups who think that wierwille would be proud of them for "standing on the Word"......having LEFT THE MOTHER SHIP, are cherry-picking the wierwille doctrine. Yeah, the real jal please stand up....I'm looking at you. lol Of course, wierwille was cunning enough in public to NOT blurt out the full force of his doctrine......but he didn't hold back with corps leadership. Wierwille instigated the salt covenant.....TO KEEP HIS LEADERS FROM EXITING TWI'S DOORS. Remember all the hype and hoopla of parading the wierwille family across main stage? Remember when vpw stated that his grandson, Luke Summer-ville, would be the 3rd prez? Remember wierwille decreeing that the wierwille family NEEDED TO STAND TOGETHER ON THE WORD [ie....with twi]...for "The Word to Live" and all that jazz? The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word. -- Life Lines, vpw. .

Yeah....and around 1981-82, wierwille taught all that athletic terminology (javelin, discus, competing in the games, etc.).....the household of God does this. All that "warfare stuff" is what the denominational Christians teach....ie Old Testament related. The key verse: Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God Wierwille taught this as....household of God = the way international. If you leave twi, then you are NO LONGER in this household. You are STILL part of God's family, but not HIS HOUSEHOLD.

EXACTLY. :eusa_clap: Apparently, some have NEVER grasped the full essence of wierwille's ministry to the world. The full impact of wierwille's inner-sanctum doctrine came INTO FULL VIEW when wierwille called any corps or clergy who left twi as cop-outs. What is NOT to grasp in this "line in the sand?" If you left twi, you left the ONE TRUE HOUSEHOLD AND MINISTRY. Remember......"The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word." [vpw] If you leave the twi-ministry......YOU leave "the word." Get it? Apparently, some still have not thought this all thru. There was NO GRAY AREA with the "wierwille doctrine"......either you were IN twi or you were OUT. Do you wierwille-apologists REALLY THINK that wierwille would approve of all the splinter groups??? Hell.....wierwille didn't even support the fellow-laborer program because it had a command center that went to the Limb leader, not hq. I STILL get gawd-smacked that so many apologists STILL have not figured this out. This did NOT start with LCM......this was wierwille, thru and thru.

Johniam......the first post says that? Go back and re-read the first post in this thread. My first post highlighted wierwille's resignation letter and the "p.s. factor" that the church consistory UNANIMOUSLY ACCEPTED his resignation on August 7, 1957. Now, with regards to "VP spent the whole time joyriding on their dime"..... in my #5 post, I detailed FROM MRS. WIERWILLE'S BOOK her exact quote regarding vp's extensive traveling and gave a specific timeline of his various trips. Thirteen years (13) on E&R payroll [June 1944- August 7, 1957].......and Mrs. Wierwille highlights the E. Stanley Jones Ashram, conferences, mission trips, camps, etc. that vpw attended to learn and apply what OTHERS were doing. With Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve......it is quite easy to see how wierwille "cut-and-pasted" his conference/class ministry apparatus like SO MANY OTHERS were doing. Page 48 shows young victor at the very back of nearly 210 attendees of this E. Stanley Jones Ashram in North Carolina. Time after time after time......Mrs. Wierwille details how others were INSTRUCTING victor in his early pastorate days. It just blows A WIDE HOLE in vpw's claim as "THE man of God" doctrine that permeated the whole of twi. But listen, johniam......I understand how truly upsetting this might be for someone who has wrapped their whole life, theology and being into believing that twi was/is "THE true household of God"......of which, anyone who has left the fold, is NOT. Maybe that's why you struggle....attempting to prove, to yourself, that you've NEVER LEFT TWI. In your mind, you are a "true believer." But according to twi.....a "true believer" never leaves. You claim....you are right. Twi claims...they are right. Your struggle is not with greasespotters. Your constant struggle is with twi. Are you with them.....or against them? That is the question. .

"Rev. Wierwille, ever since his seminary years, had gone to meetings anywhere in the United States where he thought he might learn more about God and His Word and learn more about how to present His Word more effectively to the spiritually hungry. He went to Christian conventions, revival meetings, Pentecostal conferences, healing meetings, and family camps." page 51, BATS Oh, that sounds so noble and gentle in its sanitized version. TRANSLATION..... 1) Wierwille was just another seminary graduate looking for advancement. 2) Vpw could easily see that he was a piker compared to men like JE Stiles. 3) Notice that wierwille does NOT inquire thru denominational hierarchy. 4) Looking at off-beat tangents and opportunities fit wierwille's "style." 5) All his life, vpw seemed to be evasive, arrogant and an outlier. 6) Marriage to Dorothy was kept secret....not permitted for pre-seminary students. 7) Going against the rules and plagiarizing others were "opportunistic ventures."

More background information on Rosalie F. Shumate...... Seems like someone KNOWS why Rosalie was able to climb-the-ranks of wierwille's organization so quickly........revealed below!

The sausage-making of the mog......... :biglaugh:/>/> :biglaugh:/>/> When I was a limb coordinator on twi's payroll, I wonder what twi would have thought about me traveling to ALL KINDS of meetings, conferences, healing events in a 400-mile radius and labeling it as "God was at work teaching me"........and still be in their good graces? Still receiving a full paycheck no matter what? And further......wierwille ADMITS that, oftentimes, he would take church congregants to these conferences, classes, retreats, and events. And further the further......I remember wierwille recapping his church/pastorate days to us in-residence corps and ADMITTING that if he had it to do all over again, he would HAVE TAKEN ALL of St. Peter's church congregants (to twi) if they wanted to go. .

Ding, ding, ding......we have a winner!! 1)In June 1944....wierwille accepts new pastorate at St. Peter's in Van Wert 2)In July 1944....vpw heads to E. Stanley Jones Ashram in North Carolina "Rev. Wierwille, ever since his seminary years, had gone to meetings anywhere in the United States where he thought he might learn more about God and His Word and learn more about how to present His Word more effectively to the spiritually hungry. He went to Christian conventions, revival meetings, Pentecostal conferences, healing meetings, and family camps. If places were near enough, he would take our family and other interested people. All of us went to meetings in Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio whenever we knew of them, believing we'd learn something, which we always did." page 51, BATS 3)Summer of 1945....wierwille attended the Camp Farthest Out at Lake Koronis, Minnesota [p.56] 4)In Sept. 1948.....vpw made public appearances and began broadcast in Lima, OH 5)Thru the years....victor and harry spent lots of time hunting and fishing 6)In April 1951.....vpw headed to Honduras [two wks] to observe mission work 7)In June 1951......wierwille heads to Tulsa, OK for "The Divine Healing Convention" "Rev. Stiles was able to answer all of Dr. Wierwille's perplexing questions and to help him receive into manifestation holy spirit by speaking in tongues." [p.80] ALL of these men, and conferences, camps and ministries.....TAUGHT wierwille. ALL of those bloviating claims of wierwille being the "man of God"......pppffffttt. AT LEAST.....by 1951, after Stiles and vpw writing "his" book on receiving holy spirit, wierwille was DISTANCING HIMSELF from his pastoral duties [while on THEIR PAYROLL]. Ethically and biblically......wierwille was STEALING from his employer!!! 8)In January 1952.....inviting guest speakers to Van Wert Church [spiritual 40 club] 9)In February 1953....wierwille takes Rev. B.G. Leonard's class The Gifts of the Spirit 10)In June 1953.......vpw, dorothy, don and some church congregants take Leonard's class Gee....I wonder how the Van Wert Church felt about THAT?!? :biglaugh:/> 11)In October 1953....wierwille teaches LEONARD'S CLASS in the basement of St. Peter's Church 12)By June 1954.......after meeting with Pillai, vpw begins serious preparation for India itinerary Planning to be gone for EIGHT MONTHS (1955-1956) And, by this time.......(imo) the church elders were thoroughly disgusted :asdf:/> Obviously, there was UNANIMOUS AGREEMENT to get wierwille out of THEIR pulpit. And, soon thereafter.....wierwille's name was STRICKEN from St. Peter's clergy registry. .

In Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve on page 214, (the page before vpw's resignation letter) she states: "In August Dr. Wierwille submitted his letter of resignation from St. Peter's Church to go into the full-time research, teaching, and fellowship ministry of The Way as of December 1957. Of course, there was also a pressured undercurrent from the hierarchy of the denomination to do so since the publishing of The Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India." Several things surface: 1) Mrs. W states that "The Way, Inc." will official begin in December 1957. 2) Cleary, the October 1942 origin was obfuscation and deception. 3) Vpw was taking heat from church elders about his foreign missions pamphlet. 4) Seems like a resigning/firing backroom heated discussion was ALREADY A DONE DEAL before vpw (Rhoda) typed the resignation letter with snarky P.S.

This thread is in response to 'Twi's Celebrating 73rd Anniversary' announcement. Wierwille's resignation letter was typed on church letterhead and dated August 7, 1957. On the left, at bottom of page is "VPW/rb".....presumably Rhoda Becker typed it. And, an additional "P.S. Accepted by unanimous vote of the Consistory....." Why add that? 1)Favor from elders? 2)Defiance? 3)Narcissistic? 4)Other? On page 215, Mrs. Wierwille's book Born Again to Serve....is this resignation letter. I seriously doubt that wierwille was ever accepted back into this church to give his final sunday sermon to the congregation......they willingly (gleefully?) accepted his resignation UNANIMOUSLY.

Penworks.....at the 1984 roa, the number in attendance was 24,000 (thereabouts, +/-) and those in the Trunk Dept. estimated that 80% of faithful followers made the trek to Ohio. Thus, in 1984......that figured to be approximately 30,000 going to twigs. For good measure.....and generously, I added another 3,000 (1984-1987) before things really went south. And, then....(generously) adding 3,000 (who came thru the doors these last 25 years, 1990-2015, and many of them also exiting) it seems fair to estimate the difference ie = total 35,000 who are NO LONGER associated with twi. No exact figures.......but I would bet good money that it's a good estimate. Besides, since when have we EVER heard any solid numbers from twi's "public relations" department. lol .

Article should read: Twi celebrates 58th Anniversary. Wierwille was STILL on St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church [Van Wert] payroll until August 1957. On page 215 of Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, is a copy of vpw's resignation letter on August 7, 1957 that was accepted unanimously by the church consistory. The Youth Chimes Hour blah-blah in 1942 was wierwille's first strike at deceiving others....he wanted to add to twi's inception and foundation. To tie the anniversary date to 1957, one could EASILY SEE that wierwille got his start from a STOLEN CLASS......namely, B.G. Leonard's. Yeah, maybe 1,500 people gathered on twi's "anniversary" but........35,000 ex-followers are SO THANKFUL to have cut ties with that corrupt and deceiving organization.

The "skeletons" that twi was hiding (hides) in the closet is the abject, abhorrent, and detrimental principled defects that wierwille ascribes to man's soul and self in this fabricated wayworld. I detest the wierwille premise that "followers of the way" were to be never-question, obey-mog-doctrine automatons in twi's hierarchical hell-hole. Screw that! The "founder" (vpee) went rogue against his church elders and stayed on payroll until 1957.....while selling vicway...er, amway....umm, pre-pfal classes in the church basement. Heck, when he handed over his resignation letter.....they UNANIMOUSLY accepted and shortly thereafter vpw's name was stricken from their clergy registry. Skeletons.......wierwille's past failures. Skeletons.......wierwille's sociopathic traits. Skeletons.......wierwille's "spiritual" mogdom. Skeletons.......wierwille's reckless disregard for others. With Halloween three weeks away......every splinter group leader and ex-corps ASSociate should know full-well how that WIERWILLE MASK fits. They've been wearing it for quite some time. Woe unto you......full of dead men's bones [Matt. 23:27]

Looking in the rear-view mirror, I see that wierwille was immeasurably ill-equipped to set bedrock principles that would strengthen and empower individual, marriage and family values. If indeed, that his purpose was to thwart and undermine these core elements to build his cult following, then his maliciousness and strategic deception was all the more alarming. 1. The Individual The one who hungers and thirsts for righteousness is longing to be filled. If one desires bread, would "the teacher" give him a stone? Or if he asks for an egg, would he be given a scorpion? [Luke 11:11,12] Surely, wierwille didn't tweak scripture to empower a cult following, or did he? Remember, it's "Christ in them, Christ in them.....the hope of glory" NOT. Where did that Christ-in-YOU go after the pfal class? Into the belly of the beast/twi? Read the gospel of John. Time and time again, Jesus spends time with ONE INDIVIDUAL. Read the book of Acts. Many places, one person at a crossroads in life is helped. Yet, in twi.....major push to separate you from family, friends, co-workers, roots. If you signed to go wow....then your "wow family" was the nucleus. If you went corps....then the "corps household" was there, for life. 2. The marriage The husband-wife marriage was treated like a partnership to best "move the word." In biblical times....I remember reading about a ONE YEAR honeymoon where the husband and wife spend time getting to know each other....and their extended families. Yet, in twi....we paid lip-service to verses that said husband was "the head" and the wife was "to submit." And, all THIS was just window-dressing to get others into the store.... when, in actuality, husbands-wives-followers were being LED by the mog-in-charge!! Heck, the husband AND wife had every right to just not show up for Sunday fellowship. Maybe they needed time together. Maybe they needed to work out some issues. In a strong, true marriage......it was NO ONE'S BUSINESS but theirs. Wierwille's corps leaders were constantly driving wedges into marriages. 3. Family, Traditions and Values Wierwille co-opted the whole essence of family and drove it to his cult canyon. There was NO such thing as "wow family" or "corps household" or "clergy household." Those were all fabricated illusions to strengthen the cult following. In wierwille's dystopian society.....it was a top-down North Korean society where it gives a semblance of "order" of conformity and parades, but abject poverty and clone participants. No family get-togethers, no family unity, no parties or reunions.....only STATE control. In twi, all the major holidays are tweaked to instill twi-holidays with buzzspeak terms. Those who grow up in twi are in-bred with a skewed sense of life and reality. And then, twi offers up Camp Gunnison as this ultimate vacation destination spot. lol Like....yeah, just what an innie family needs....to be MONITORED while on "vacation."

At the 10 minute mark, the tractor pulling the grain cart pulls up alongside the combine so that the grain in the combine's bin can be augured/unloaded on the go. To a farmer, with tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake and weather conditions unpredictable, EVERY SECOND COUNTS. Thus, unloading on-the-go is efficiency at its best! When I was 11 years old, driving an old Massey-Ferguson combine, it always made me nervous to unload while driving. It was just another thing that I needed to do where I might screw up. One time, I didn't shut off the auger and dumped like 10 bushel on the ground. Oops. .

Steve......here's a quick look to get you updated. After a minute or so, fast forward to around the 8 minute mark and watch the chaff scattered out the back end. Impressive, ain't it? The new John Deere combines are around $400,000-425,000. The modern combine is a massive eating, sensing, separating, storing, thrashing, flashing, blowing, going piece of agricultural machinery.

Yesterday, my brother finished his wheat planting.....and all the decisions encompassing that can drive a farmer to exhaustion. At present, there are 14 different winter wheat varieties that agripro-experts are recommending for central plains, usa. Among the many decisions that each farmer needs to consider is 1)maturity date, 2)maximum yield, 3)disease and drought tolerance, 4)straw strength, 5) consistency yield in hardship weather, etc. Every decision made is to give the planted wheat maximum advantage and eliminate potential for any tares [weeds] to gain root and grow. Prior to the actual planting......any responsible farmer knows that the preparation and condition of the soil, to receive the seed wheat, is of utmost importance. Thus......when reading on the current thread about ordinations and DWBH's postings recalling twi's history of these ordinations and how wierwille "...sowed the tares of his personal and doctrinal perversions" into twi and they grew and remain to this day. Scroll to #17 Yep, wheat and tares growing side-by-side [even in the SAME "ministry"].....until The Harvesting of the wheat. The tares are bundled and burned [Matt. 13:30].

"He claimed to have used the out-of-copyright "Oh Happy Day", a Christian hymn, as his inspiration for the song's melody." "Oh Happy Day" is a 1967 gospel music arrangement of an 18th-century hymn.

Yeah....now that I think about that song a little more, I remember that. Hallelujah and Hare Krishna.....alternating back-n-forth. But really.....as a 16 year old, with motorcycle and sports and hunting .....I hardly gave a second thought about that song's deeper meaning.