skyrider

Yeah....that implication by association is in all of life, isn't it? Not sure if there is a direct correlation to what Bolshevik addressed but my family and my high school and college friends relegated me to "the cult-commune status" because of wierwille's abusive tactics. Then, when deprogrammers amplified this information (before internet) with *dissenters who documented their experiences and went public* .....the headwinds were against me. Heck, even during my 1970s WOW-years some of our neighbors thought that men and women living together (ie shacked up together) was strange as we carried our bibles to and fro. On several occasions, our neighbors said that they thought we were some fringe group with sex parties.

Started a new thread for this discussion. The Internet (anti-way sites) disarmed me

New topic. Needs its own thread to keep from derailing "Rosalie F. Shumate" thread. Rocky's response: "Wow... you presented some interesting philosophical questions. They bring back and remind me of some of your earlier comments on other threads and help clarify your reasons for the obscure wording. It's reasonably easy to recognize how, from your perspective, those things should have remained a mystery. OTOH, life isn't always what we'd like it to be. As author M Scott Peck wrote, in the first line of his book The Road Less Traveled, "Life is difficult." He goes on to explain that when we recognize and realize that, we learn to cope with the difficult times. I've mentioned the role Peck's writing played in my recovery from twi in comments on gsc before. I doubt we'd be able to resolve your philosophical questions in a discussion on gsc, but I commend you for bringing the subject up. It may or may not help to also consider that progress, especially technological innovation, cannot be stopped."

Wierwille and his cabal of enablers were parasitic in nature. Living at the expense of others.....sucking them dry. Donna, the california girl, sees an opportunity to advance in ohio.....never leaves. No matter that her husband, 2nd prez, got totally outed in court depositions. No matter that every other corps spouse was DFAC (dropped corps) for spousal failings. Rosalie, the twice-divorced North Carolina teacher....wants to drop her past. Takes pfal, goes corps, and seductively wields a 34 yr old body to aging wierwille. BOOM...wierwille takes the bait. This time, though.....she's the one with the hook. Vpee spent the rest of his life covering his "secret" predation with perks and promotions. Personally, I don't much care whether anyone else connects all the dots like we've done here at GS. The secret puzzle is no longer secret.

Thanks again DWBH.....for your 4th corps perspective as to what was happening back then and for exposing the wierwille/donna/rosalie freewheeling sex romping 1973--> etc. Perhaps, all this "background study" helped ole wierwille get prepared for his christian family (cough, cough) and sex class? Nothing like fast-tracking most favored females up the corporate ladder by sexing their way to the top. In some sully, sordid way....this all explains how twi has failed so miserably. Thru the years, I observed how many strong and adept corps men and women were marginalized and/or brushed aside for the "favored few insiders." Wierwille and ilk were stinking up the place with sleaze buckets and sex predation. The questions THAT I PONDERED FOR SO LONG.......have come to light. Now, I no longer wonder how everything came crashing down so quickly. Merry Christmas, Rosalie. Was it all worth it? .

Yeah......like how wierwille stood against (cough, cough) adultery, fornication, wanton lust, mog-idolatry, ambition to equal or surpass, strife, etc. etc. Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

After some consideration, I think that I'm just going to define twi as.... Religious Indoctrination and Untoward Secrecy 1) Behavior control.......monitoring what you do and with who you associate 2) Information control....monitoring what you read and criticizing all "worldly" information 3) Thought control........monitoring your thought processes and short-circuiting critical thinking 4) Emotional control......monitoring and downplaying all emotions of hurt, grief, anger, etc.1) Click -- Untoward Secrecy

Oh yeah.....twi's salt covenant (cough, cough) was nothing more than a symbolic public display of manipulative peer pressure to guilt and rein one back to twi-hierarchy. Did Dr. Wierwille abide by a salt covenant to always do God's will? If so, then why all the decades of plagiarism, abuse and fraud? Yes, martindale did take the salt covenant in 1982 as witnessed by the body of twi-followers when he was installed as twi's second president. Yet, he too, was a sexual predator as he followed his mentor's mandates. The scriptures boldly state the SINS of these two men. God is not mocked by their sins and failings...........THEY ARE. The deep, embedded corruption in twi-hierarchy has NOTHING to do with spiritual vows. One could justifiably say that their "salt covenant" is for the little people to obey twi leadership, ALWAYS, in spite of the holy writ that trustees/directors claim to stand on. When scripture states one thing and twi states another, they claim you VIOLATE the salt covenant if you OBEY GOD......and not them. Twi leadership is groveling in the dark with hirelings. In today's vernacular.....The cult fleeth, because the cult is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. Jhn 10:13 .

Just to clarify.... The white heart/black heart example was what wierwille CLAIMED he was shown. Knowing all that I now know.....I seriously doubt that this ever happened. How convenient that every claim was so vague and generic that none of wierwille's "receiving revelation" could be substantiated and/or proclaim deliverance. Teachings and material were plagiarized. Wierwille's pfal class was immortalized. The cult idolatry was glamorized. The corps program was brutalized. And, corps women were predatorized. [Yeah, "predatorized" is not a real word...lol]

Yeah.....I get that. But if the word "cult" is going to continually be diluted to ascribe it to mothers who promote the benefits of breast-feeding their newborn......then I've got to find a better way to describe and LABEL that blood-sucking, money-fleecing, scum-hypocritical, scam-deceiving, plagiarist, organization hitch-hiking a ride on the true christian/believer narrative.

Well....it seems like calling anything and everything a cult nowadays has gone too far. I mean, if every swing and movement is "a cult".......then a deceiving, abusive, predatory, manipulative, pseudo-Christian commune needs to be labeled something else. Click -- The breast-feeding cult The author of this article is being just a bit hyperbolic, no? A breast-feeding cult? lol I guess that I'm going to have to find another word to describe my twi-experience. The "cult" word has become so generic and bastardized that it is lost in translation. Do those mothers look like they've been manipulated, deceived, and vexed against their will and better judgment?

What are twi's advantages of internal security guards and "self-policing?" 1) Twi hierarchy can give the BUM'S RUSH to anyone that dissents from doctrine. 2) Twi hierarchy is able to rush to the microphones and give THEIR version of incident. 3) Twi hierarchy and security has premiere upper-hand to nip dissent/assembly in bud. 4) DAMAGE CONTROL is just one quick step behind "thought crime." lol 5) The individual does NOT have proper due process of law. 6) The individual is quickly stigmatized as possessed and shunned. 7) The individual (if assaulted/raped) has an insurmountable challenge to bring charges. The whole staff-community at hq is this all-inclusive-lockstep-monitoring-center. How is it possible that they can demand "house-arrest" of an individual and family UNTIL trustees/directs reach agreement......if the offense is simply doctrine dissent? If a staffer resigns and wants to pack his things.....why can't he just get in his car and drive to the New Knoxville police department and REPORT THE ISSUE?

NYtimes article refers to "corralling people into an ideal." Seems like this cult mentality of herding and corralling individuals into fenced conformity has moved into the masses. "What is being erased in the reputation economy are the contradictions inherent in all of us. Those of us who reveal flaws and inconsistencies become terrifying to others, the ones to avoid. An “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”-like world of conformity and censorship emerges, erasing the opinionated and the contrarian, corralling people into an ideal. Forget the negative or the difficult. Who wants solely that? But what if the negative and the difficult were attached to the genuinely interesting, the compelling, the unusual? That’s the real crime being perpetrated by the reputation culture: stamping out passion; stamping out the individual." Living in the Cult of Likability

Lest we forget..... The Way Family Ranch The music group "Branded" Wierwille bought the brand rights --- W (where "a" and "y" are attached to this "w" on a branding iron) The cult stigma goes far beyond their teachings and cherry-picked scriptures. It had/has everything to do with the prodding and herding mentality. In hindsight, it's so easy to see the pseudo-christianity institutionalizing. And by now....they're probably ramping up their tweaked ho-ho singing. "speak in tongues, speak in tongues--do it every day (to the tune of jingle bells). Gawd......what warped memories that cult inculcated on the Christmas season. Ugh.

Thanks Rocky.....the visual is much better than the link I provided. And, the lyrics.... "Don't try to understand 'em [cattle] Just rope [pfal] and throw [adv class] and brand [way corps] 'em, Soon we'll [twi hierarchy] be living high and wide." THAT is my new theme song for describing the cult experience. :biglaugh:/> .

Rolling, rolling, rolling..... Keep them doggies rolling..... Keep moving, moving, moving Though they're disapproving Keep them doggies moving.....Rawhide. No time to understand them, Just rope and throw and brand 'em. Soon we'll be living high and wide. My heart's calculating, my true love will be waiting, Be waiting at the end of the ride. Move 'em out, head 'em up Head 'em up, move 'em out .............ride 'em in RAWHIDE.

In a galaxy far, far away.....I remember how the annual pilgrimage to twi's mecca was deemed worthy of respect and reverence. Back then, wierwille trumpeted the brc (biblical research center) as the most holy spot on twi-property and the house of his healing presence, in the way woods, as second on this list of holiness. In wierwille's mind and propaganda, twi's headquarters was the spiritual epicenter of the world. The irony of all this is multi-layered in a number of deceptive complexities: 1) A spiritual epicenter....really? More like a plagiarist playground of phonies. 2) Heavy-handed overlords who demand payment for bullying tactics. 3) Property is guarded 24/7 by gun-totting, brainwashed pimps. 4) The county road is patrolled as if they own it. 5) If you drive by slowly, a "patrol car" will follow/harass you. 6) Staff is compliant and malleable to intrusive directives each week. 7) Sunday services are gut-wrenchingly scripted and painfully dull. 8) No one is really welcome there unless vetted by security guys. 9) Sit down, shut up and give cash.....thank you very much. 10) And leave quickly.....after buying items from bookstore. 11) Staffers go back to homes/dorm and turn on TV's. 12) See, they've "done their duty" and punch clock. 13) Nothing at twi's headquarters is what they purport it to be. 14) The window-dressing is to get you into their "store." 15) Deception and making merchandise of you. Oh, what duplicitous incongruities and complexities! While on twi-grounds, you are being watched and monitored. The faithful innies are being exploited....time/money/pawns. YET.....on the field, rosalie and co. expect compliant openness to run fellowships and classes. Get out there, teach (parrot) twi-doctrine and run classes. Keep those classes rolling, sign 'em up, move 'em out......Click - Rawhide Theme Song Sorry, couldn't resist....lol.

EXACTLY.......and that is why the MOST FIERY confrontations were leveled at dissenting corps leadership in closed quarters, in corps meetings, where the bully-mog had 100% control of confrontation/intimidation for maximum impact. Most Fiery Confrontations The bully-mog wierwille escalated the confrontation to a level that few twi-followers ever saw. It was so over-the-top that, I think, most corps refuted to process what just took place before their eyes.....and shelved it to the further recesses of their brain cells. To actually dwell upon the content required a critical thinking process that few wanted to engage in. Wierwille knew how to manipulate and bully. The independent free-thinkers, and researchers, and outspoken rabble-rousers were targets....because they posed a threat to lockstep loyalty and cultdom. The strong, and independent, and successful......split. What's left at twi's hq? The subservient. The lapdogs. The weak and fearful. Those department coordinators who've been there for 30 years hardly have a thought that they could call their own. They are pawns to rosalie's rules and regs.

Same thing with Kirby vacuum cleaner organization......the young bloods go out on sales calls and the management stays in the office working the phones. The newcomer-sales person is highly encouraged to go to friends, family and relatives to make those first sales and build confidence. Same deal.

DWBH.....I wouldn't trade places with any of them either. Certainly, not in this life.....or the one to come.

So true....IF there'd been internet access in 1980, wierwille would have been shut down. But still, even today since Waydale and Greasespot [March 1999--November 2015].....very few corps, and inner-circle insiders, have ever come forward to REALLY EXPOSE these serial predators. Imagine what some of those valets, motorcoach drivers, security types, groomers, girl-pimps, seducers, etc could detail where the bodies are buried? Yet, so many took the pyramid model across the street and hung out their OWN shingle for business. Splinters everwhere......sending out teaching tapes and a class you've just got to take. Ugh. And, naturally.....the parasites cannot impugn wierwille's name, mog-doctrine or "legacy." So, even with internet access and all.....much is STILL BURIED FROM SIGHT. Complicit? Bribed? Perplexed? Deceived? Don't care? Why bother? Move on? Seems like, this is all you're going to find out. Unless Linder writes a book.

Yeah, penworks.....I thought about titling this tread, "A bully and his spiritual pulpit." I agree with you. The adjective was misplaced. Regarding the "defectors"......now, there's a name that I haven't thought about for a long time. Chuck....the motorcoach driver before psycho-geer took the wheel. What I continue to find amazing is THE DOZENS OF PEOPLE who were serving near wierwille and trustees...and DEFECTED. Pilots, drivers, valets, musicians, security personnel, etc. Even aids to Mrs. Wierwille. People, long-standing insiders, were constantly leaving.....year after year.

Yeah.....ain't that the truth. And, still others....the only way they could deal with the bully was avoidance. So many just knew that their best strategy was to NOT CONFRONT THE BULLY, but to just "leave the playground" and find another spot. I vividly remember men like John R@ce, Ambassador One pilot..... who just up and abruptly left twi. And, Mike Sm!th, First Corps who headed to Alaska in June 1982. Yeah.....ALASKA. lol Seems like some just wanted to put as much distance as possible for the life that they WERE NOW CHOOSING. Looking back, I now see why certain men fell in line while others didn't. Wierwille took to manipulation like a duck takes to water.

We were bullied. Time and time again, we were bullied and conditioned against our better judgment to follow wierwille's (martindale/geer/rivenbark) lead. Even when these teachings were at cross-purposes with practical realities, common sense and traditional norms: 1) Individual boundaries and advancement 2) Education and career choices 3) Christian faith and moral fiber 4) Family and good parenting 5) Investment and homeownership 6) Friends, neighbors and social networking 7) Goals, financial planning and retirement 8) Etc. etc. In 1985, wierwille died......and the corps breathed fresh air again. The bully was dead....and it was amazing how quickly things changed. The movement was NOT real. The thug died and the chains broke. And, most were not going to let bully jr. geer into our playground. Isn't it amazing how much power lies in a bully pulpit in the name of "christianity?"

At Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. Taught live by wierwille. Promoted with lots of hype. Had a "torch" carried from Rome City, IN--->Van Wert, OH--->Athens, OH to symbolize the "athlete/Olympics/torch from Rome to Athens." Wierwille had told us in-residence corps that his name was stricken from the Van Wert church where he'd pastored......and thus, had some 40 runners run the streets of Van Wert to symbolize the growing strength and outreach of twi in 1979. I was one of these runners in Van Wert. [so, wierwille wanted to make a statement to his former church. Yeah, 22 years after his resignation/firing....see the love?.] :rolleyes:/>/> .