skyrider

Do tell? :biglaugh:/> Someone who comes on this open forum and hides in the shadows and makes insinuating remarks? Do tell? Are you a wierwille-defender? Did some corps guy marry your girlfriend? What? You were involved around 1973 or so? What are you 66 years old and are now coming to the realization that wierwille's cult was really messed up? Do tell? :biglaugh:/> .

Oh, so...."knowledge puffeth up..." is your end-all cliché of the day? Nice.

TLC....check out the link below to a discussion we had towards this 5 years ago. I have long held the view that wierwille's twi was strategically divisive from its inception. There was a caste system to this "I have more truth than you" that engendered a basis of class participation wherein "more knowledge = more spiritual" and thus, more promotions. In reading this thread, you will see how many debunk this setup and ruse. Personally, I've never thought that "members in particular in the One Body" is based solely on learning Greek, Aramaic, Figures of Speech, or twi's purporting of "the rightly-divided word." Click -- The Corps Program: Divisive

5)Learning of twi's seedy underbelly is sickening 6)Now, 40-some years later....much different perspective 7)Some might not like looking at the man in the mirror 8)An open forum is anti-twi, anti-isolationist 9)Suppressed from critical thought, the mind must awaken The internet and open forums......welcome to A BRAVE, NEW WORLD.

Sure, TLC is entitled to his own opinion here. Would be nice if he'd drop the arrogance, know-it-all attitude and quit speaking in shadowy innuendos. After 41 posts.....whatever he is trying to say is still questionable.

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Oh....I think there's more here than that. Go back and re-read this thread. TLC has made subtle references to the internet. Perhaps, TLC does NOT like having all this twi-information exposed for all to see. Seems like the areas that strike a nerve with TLC are...... 1)What was the 1970s generation searching for truth about 2)The internet.....juxtaposed against just going to God 3)DWBH and his outspoken recollections of twi's past 4)Ordinations....and gift ministries Anyone bringing up those 4 areas has been around [in, out or scorned?] quite awhile. Heck, maybe some innie clergy just wanting to settle some old score or something. Time will tell.....or, maybe not. I suspect that if GSC stays online for the next 30 years that there might be plenty more of this to come. Life is short...and some might want to "get in the last word." Fine. It's an open forum. But I think that the condescending attitude tells us a lot.

Of course, there will ALWAYS be posters represent a variety of positions......BUT how interesting it is to reread this thread and see when the "food-fight" began. This thread....addressing TWI in the 1970s, and some of us posters undercut wierwille's plagiarist and predatory past and the psycho-babble of revelations that vpee claimed, namely me. Then, DWBH walks into the Café and says, quite loudly, for all to hear: Twit will never regain anywhere near it's late 70's-80's status. Never. Yes, the Internet has made the single biggest difference in exposing and limiting twit all over the world. GSC, IMO, is the single biggest reason for the near total dissolution of twit. Congratulations to you all! There is way too much info that is 100% verifiable, documentable, and legally damaging to twit available in all media. There is so much info just here at GSC, that any rational human being who reads the threads here can decide quickly and confidently that twit is a stereotypical, fundamentalist bible cult with the credibility of Josef Goebbels. Same belief system too. The public record of twit is so grossly stained by the most selacious and lowlife trailer-trash facts that thinking people would just run from any involvement with it. You look at their website, videos, publications, way productions, etc., and it looks like something produced by the terminally ill producers of the last Lawrence Welk shows, and performed by The Borg. Gomer Pyle, USMC is the closest to twit media that comes to mind. Rosie's tastes are somewhat dimwitted and have been since high country caravan. She's still stuck in vp and she can't get out. Twit will continue to contract until it's dead. No one to keep it going. Much ado about nothing. An insignificant grain of sand on the forsaken beaches of human failure. They'll die out soon. There will be a few silver spoon in the mouth keedz who will valiantly try to resurrect the twit death machine. There will be a tiny flicker and then poof! Gone forever to decompose on the trash heap of human depravity. What a legacy dictor paul. Congratulations!" Then, on January 19th.....TLC walks into the Café, [first post, having joined GSC that day] and wants to state his position. Fine. Free country, free membership, open forum. Why this topic? Why now? His first comment: "No, we were merely a generation in search of the truth, anywhere it could be found." Apparently, TLC feels the need to represent "a generation in search of the truth".....and, it seems fair to say, that TLC seems provoked to defend this "truth" [ie twi's classes, programs]. Of course, none of this is overtly stated.....a number of posts banter back and forth in terms of innuendos, subtleties, and generic concepts [ie spiritual knowledge]. But...this forum IS *About The Way* and TLC references this 1970s generation and DWBH. Did he/she know DWBH back then? Why the arrows towards DWBH? Maybe soon....TLC will be more forthright in clarifying. Until then....the arrows towards DWBH and the condescending attitude towards the rest of us is a real nonstarter. Just saying.......

Click - How did the ordination of clergy thing work in twi?.....[p.58 on this forum, currently] Post #9

Yes....for all its flaws, CFF at least doesn't badger its followers when they skip sunday fellowship or even the big events. Heck, some CFF followers have been known to attend local church as from time to time. And....from what I heard, John Shr0yer's daughter, Tonya, was given the "big chair" a couple years after John's death [something that she'd pleaded for] even though Wayne held the interim spot. On one hand, younger blood in charge might have its benefits to attract newbies....but then, personally, I don't deem such an act as "spiritual bequeathing of the mantle to one's child" adding to CFF stature. More like, a business and keeping it in the family....imo. But hey.....if they're happy and blessed, good for them.

Good points, wayside. One of my corps buddies, years after exiting.....said that the wow program and corps program GAVE HIM TIME TO ADJUST BEFORE ADULTHOOD. In other words, he wanted to "wait, suspend and party" before working a job for the next 40 years. Like some say about college....."Well, the folks were paying for it and it was a time away from parents and a time to party on their dime." Same thing with corps. Some took it serious and some didn't. But one thing is for sure.....it put life on hold.

1985 -- Wierwille died 1987 -- Major TWI Exodus 1989-2002(?) ........and the "true wierwille remnant" splintered some 90 ways. Corps leaders opened shop everywhere to run classes and cash the checks. Trying to replicate the past nostalgia......"we had joy, we had fun." Yet....many had bills to pay and kids to raise. No thanks. No more commune-utopia for me. It's called life.

Yes....the ground has INDEED shifted drastically these past 30 years. 1) When wierwille walked the earth.....there was an intense cult of personality. 2) The twi-commune was given oxygen from Jesus movement, 1969 Woodstock, counter-culture revolution 3) Donnie Fu-git and the hippie generation were welcomed on stage to fawning followers 4) We had joy, we had fun.....we had places in the sun 5) Never underestimate the power of a movement 6) What happened to the "movement?" After about 12 years, the music died. By 1999.....one savvy computer guy started Waydale and the ground totally shifted underneath the splintered commune. Yes......thanks to plenty who pulled the curtains back many got the "blessing" of taking community college courses without pushback and/or confrontation. You're welcome.

At its peak years [1977-1984], twi headquarters was an in-house, closed-society commune that saturated the minds of its followers with wierwille's wayworld utopia. This closed-society encapsulated the elements of: 1)housing, 2)food/cafeteria, 3)work, 4)social, 5)personal needs, and 6)religion. Those who lived clustered together on-grounds in those trailer units would walk to the brc basement for breakfast, lunch and supper [before transitioning to the OSC in 1980]. After breakfast, many met in "work twigs" for a 20-minute twi-devotional and then, work. All day, every day.....there was NO need to leave twi grounds. When some pine for those "good ole days".....this is what the nostalgic utopia was. 1) Living on-grounds in a trailer park. No bills, no hassles, no barking dogs, no problems. 2) Three meals a day, every day. An institutionalized environment closed-off from outsiders. 3) Work assignments to assist 80% in-house efforts, 20% others. A feel-good-pat-on-the-back. 4) Security patrol unit on grounds and strict moral/ethic code to not steal for others. 5) Personal needs met: banking, legal, tax prep [if any], medical nurses, hair cutting, etc. 6) Social functions.....music groups, dances, entertainment, festivals, plays, banquets 7) Magazine and printing press...all in-house propaganda to propel its promotion 8) Solitude and "open-ness".....way woods and country roads gave allure as free-ness 9) Religious service on grounds. No need for a car. No need for much of anything. [Scientology: Going Clear has been playing on HBO for the past two months. Same deal. Same closed-society. Only massively and masterly deceptive & wealthy.] Let me repeat myself: This era of "nostalgic twi-utopia" was VERY SHORT LIVED. Nevertheless, many long-standing followers.....some who are in their 60s now, hold onto these memories as if they were truly part of something great. Okay, sure.....if someone deems them as wonderful and special then go ahead, and treasure those memories. But to be fair, some lives were destroyed during those "happy days." Sexual predators had found the perfect foil. Later in life, one can easily see the manipulation and exploitation factors that advanced the collective commune at the expense of the individual. Even on the field, much of this closed-off mindset took strong root. Lots of followers lived with other twi-followers to off-set expenses. Way Homes popped up in many cities. Two-by-two.....many field believers would listen to teaching tapes together, avoid the neighbors, and shun society events. Had to get to twig 3X a week, you know? So many who took a 15-20 year detour.....forsaking family, friends, goals, education, careers.......and for many, its a grueling process to regain time or effort lost. When you succumb to an institutionalized, closed-society slant on life.....you lose a grip on all the benefits and steppingstones of social and educational networking. At age 35, or 40, or more......especially with kids-in-tow, and a crippled marriage or divorce [having neglected those marriage/family responsibilities for years] it is very challenging to exit a closed-society and advance in the real world. Gee, I don't recall Jesus advancing the mindset of a closed society as he walked amongst the people thronging to see him. The message was to "go into the world but be not of the world." When will twi-followers realize that "The Commune" is an inside-game scam? All take, No give. Amassing $64 Million and still pathetic on any compassion for local community, the needy......or even struggling "believers."

And....I am one who tends to believe that Rosalie [and Donna] instigated them. There are some GS-posters, namely catcup, who have given us ample examples of craig's ineptness.....especially during those "fog years." Even afterwards, he got all "his research" and ideas from others. You would know much more than I about what happened in those years of rosie's reign......I had exited three years before craig was ousted and slithered into Toledo in the dead of night.

Maybe I should have titled this thread in the plural.... The Micromanaging Matriarchs

There is certainly plenty of room for debate concerning that. Here at GS, you'll find accounts of people stating that Rosalie (and Donna) were laying the groundwork of the 1990s micromanaging that evolved. While craig was romping around in his motorcoach and Dayton motel rooms......Rosalie was calculating. She was confident that it was only a matter of time before lcm's demise. [i personally think that there was an alliance between Donna and Rosalie that strengthened formidably dating back to 1987....as the "fog years" intensified and lcm needed counsel and guidance.] Here is another such incident that gives substance to my claim. [Gee, I should write a book....lol] Looking back, I now see more subtle instances where this slow trainwreck was in motion. At the November 1997 Advanced Class Special, I was assigned to escort Mrs. Wierwille throughout the event. Every day from 7am-10pm (at least) it was my responsibility to BE READY AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE when Mrs. W. wanted to be escorted somewhere in that Dallas hotel. From Tuesday noon --> Sunday afternoon.....it was a very demanding schedule. Anyways.....there I was, this Sunday morning with Mrs. Wierwille and she wanted to stop off at Craig & Donna's room to greet them before going to breakfast. As we entered their room, there was lots of tension between Donna and John Linder. After a minute or two of cordial greetings, Mrs. Wierwille turned to leave the room....and Donna, turning to Linder and said, "Make sure he [Craig] is up by nine." Here it was....the CLOSING TEACHING SESSION started at 10:30am and Donna sternly instructed Linder to "....make sure he [craig] is up by nine." WOWSERS.....my head was swirling as I turned to quickly open the door for Mrs. Wierwille. My thoughts raced: 1)Why was craig still in bed? 2)Was he sick? 3)Did craig have a late night dealing with some spiritual matter? With responsibilities at hand to escort Mrs. Wierwille, I had to perish those thoughts and stay focused on all the details that came my way. TODAY??......I tend to think that craig was dallying in some corps girl's bedroom late that night and Donna was furious in finding out "stuff" and yet, needing to keep this predation secret. Craig was too busy with "other stuff" to be an adept micromanager. :biglaugh:/> .

Did you know that there are SIX gift ministries as the white gloved-hand magician took center stage .......and martindale was briskly scooted out of the spotlight and behind the curtain? Yep, SIX......1)apostles, 2)prophets, 3)evangelists, 4)pastors, 5)teachers and 6)micromanagers. When Rosalie came center stage, to sit at the big chair......her gift was one of "an administrator" or more technically known as a micromanager. She is gifted with the determination to excessively control all the details down to the smallest tasks at twi's headquarters. She requires constant performance feedback thru a layered chain of departmental informants. Whether Rosalie possesses an obsessive-compulsive personality disorder or borders on one is for others to determine. The evolution of twi's demise is a fascinating subject to me. With each new president, twi attempts to tweak and massage its message to convey its relevance.....while dismissing the true essence of Christianity, the Lord Jesus Christ. By the mid-90s, I noticed that those five gift ministries [or Christ-in-you, the hope of glory and individual autonomy] were rarely taught or acknowledged. The Blob of groupthink conformity had been ushered in and seated in the front row. Of course, every time I think of this micromanaging "gift ministry"......I think, HOW CONVENIENT for rosalie and the ruling class. Sit at her desk and pontificate. For that matter, she could be on her cell phone demanding feedback while shopping at Saks Fifth Avenue in Chicago with donna. I mean, who really is going to know.....or care? When micromanagers rule the joint, don't most relish in the fact that said micromanager is NOT in the office? Absolutely. If wierwille could be credited with anything, it would be....what an elaborate, bureaucratic ruse he set in motion to bewitch the followers. Far surpassing other cult communes.....the wierwille cult has sustained a "headquarters" where 240-270 (?) staffers are complicit in fleecing the field workers of their hard-earned money. When Rosalie is gone.....I wonder what the 7th "gift ministry" will be? The Mystifying Prophet Behind the Veil?

Anyone still in a position of twi-leadership who trots out such lame one-liners or follows in the pathologically disturbed meanderings of Rosalie and co..... after some 15 years of internet-exposed corruption, is a certifiable sycophant.

In the context of twi-doctrine, mature followers should NOT succumb to grieving. Grieving another's death indicates weakness and lack of believing "the word." Grieving, like other emotions, opens one up to devil spirit infiltration. Besides.....all that grieving stuff is so Old Testament. True believers have no time for such trivial matters. .

.....(singing) There's a right road, a wrong road which way [WAY] you headed toward? Reminds me of my college Marketing 101 class on cigarette marketing: "You can take Salem out of the country, but (ding)....... [The song stops and your mind fills in the blank as you're left with the commercial's message planted in your brain.]

When martindale admitted to sexual predation....er, his "one-time affair" in April 2000 all the control levers of his favored-flight-of-fantasy were jammed. Twi's lawyers had to take charge and get this cult back, legally, from the cliff's edge. Martindale took the fall. So, Rosalie got the big chair. And, she has had that chair for her 15 minutes....er, years of cultish fame. Ain't it been great to see ALL that she's accomplished with Donna at her side. Let us count the ways: 1) Twi is no longer being subjugated to heavy-handed leadership. 2) The ministry has done a 180 and the mortgage-debt madness was abolished. 3) Transparency of mandates and finances [$64 Million] is out in the open. 4) There is no longer a double standard between elders and peons. 5) Everyone is prevailing and thriving in abundance. Sorry folks, it NEVER happened. 15 years of rosalie-rule and you got same old, same old. 15 years of marching in the same rut, year after year. Oh well, at least you got to do it TOGETHER. 2016 could be the year that Rosalie steps down..... but even then, she will pick her replacement. Those who cherish their legacies, good or bad, always endorse the one who reflects same image.

What a year!! Family, friends, fun, festivities, finances, football, freedom.........loving it. This isn't just looking at the cup as "half-full"....the dang thing is overflowing!! No more repetitive, sluggish meetings of compulsory attendance. Nope. No more "praying in the new year" and honoring vpw, the serial plagiarist and predator. No more being monitored of information, thought, actions, identity or emotion. No more verbal abuse by leadership via phone or corps meetings. What a year it's been! Life, health, opportunities, advancement, relationships, etc......thank you Lord. Never agreed with wierwille that if you leave twi, you leave "the word" spiel. Never agreed with lcm about his 'greasespot by midnight' death threats. Never agreed that twi was the one and only true household of God. Ugh. 30 years and the wierwille legacy? Lame, Lust and Listless 15 years of martindale's ousting? Diminished, Disguised, and Deflected 35,000 have left the building, the cult-zone. Do 350 regularly attend twi's sunday teachings? A toast to the survivors A silent moment for those who didn't :( Auld Lang Syne The song begins by posing a rhetorical question as to whether it is right that old times be forgotten, and is generally interpreted as a call to remember long-standing friendships.[9] Thomson’s Select Songs of Scotland was published in 1799 in which the second verse about greeting and toasting was moved to its present position at the end.[9] Should old acquaintance be forgot, and never brought to mind? Should old acquaintance be forgot, and old lang syne? CHORUS: For auld lang syne, my dear, for auld lang syne, we'll take a cup of kindness yet, for auld lang syne. And surely you’ll buy your pint cup! and surely I’ll buy mine! And we'll take a cup o’ kindness yet, for auld lang syne.

Yeah.....like "a hand in a glove" the twi-interpretation of scripture fits nicely into twi's tree structure of manipulation and control. Ever notice how much of wierwille's idioms [ie hand in a glove, way tree, cop out] were not based on scripture? To me, I just refuted wierwille's binary fixation throughout my involvement: 1) Why should I put away all my other reading material after pfal? I was in college. 2) Why would I disown or marginalize my parents? Scripture says to honor father and mother. 3) Why heap disparagingly on other Christians? Aren't they, too, in the One Body? 4) Why have the dichotomy between corps vs non-corps? I really liked a College Division girl. 5) Why publically castigate corps/clergy in a meeting? Bully tactics and character smears. 6) Why overload hqs with hundreds of corps and clergy? Weren't we trying to "reach the world?" 7) Why close down Word in Business conferences and Word in Culture achievements? Why indeed? 8) Why the hoarding of $64 MILLION when followers are just scraping by? Exploitation indeed. Thankfully, I realized that I wanted MY HAND back.... ....you can keep your "glove" [twi-system of control]

In wierwille's world, everything was composed of two elements.....two diverging extremes. Time and time again, we were introduced into this binary classification that wierwille fixated and taught to his followers. According to vpw, God showed him those who had "white hearts or black hearts"......what? no grey hearts of those approaching being born again? The pfal class was Binary Foundation 101. If you were a pfal grad, then you were welcomed in door #1......congratulated, accepted, family, buzzword-compliant, filled with holy spirit, and planning to go WOW. If you were not a pfal grad nor had any interest of taking it, then you were relegated to door #2......"an empty floating by," worldly, vain, and a black heart. Of course, no one in twi bothered to substantiate any facts regarding the latter category..... it was just easier to label things into an us-versus-them. The intermediate class was the stickler in twi's binary world. If someone took the intermediate class and said, "That's enough for me -- I'm good" ......then this binary classification just didn't compute. What? You can't stop in the middle. It's the "intermediate" class. You are not FULLY INSTRUCTED unless you've taken the advanced class. Why wouldn't you want to learn the other six manifestations and walk in ALL the power? The advanced class was the free-pass to stroll thru twi's grounds with a nice, green nametag. You wore it proudly, and often......especially during rock of ages. You had "arrived" and wanted others to know. The intermediate level was a wilderness where there was no special recognition or nametag.....who would want to stay there? Advanced class grads were treated with respect and granted a special meeting with the mog at rock of ages. Years later, Advanced Class Specials were instituted. See the new-found emphasis and treatment at this level? But wait.....there's another binary classification that trumps all others: Corps vs. non-corps. Now, of course, in public gatherings [ie big events, roa] there is NO discussion of this. Why? Simply put, the vast majority of $$$$$ comes from advanced class grads....those who consistently hold down a job and faithfully send in 15%. But in closed corps meetings.....wierwille flaunted "his corps" as God's crack troops, the spiritual elite. Corps grads became department leaders, branch coordinators, limb coordinators, musicians on staff, etc. Honorary corps grad status was given to many who never went thru the corps program. What? Being around twi for 30 years and clergy wasn't enough for some. Even Don and Howard were bestowed the honorary corps grad status in a public ceremony. At peak level, there were FIVE corps training location in the USA and one in Scotland..... when wierwille went to his grave. Corps were everywhere....and yet, no where without wierwille's leadership. He scoffed at corps grads doing biblical research. He fumed when corps grads had independent thought and/or dissent. He publically scorned any corps/clergy musicians that showed over-confidence without his direction. In the end, I seriously doubt that wierwille believed the scripture regarding "members in particular, in the Body of Christ." Wierwille was fixated on "his way or the highway"...... a binary classification that he never resolved.