skyrider

Yeah, TLC.....why was Mike leaving? As I've stated consistently on GSC, these underlying factors were building and building for MANY YEARS....probably pronounced when the 6th corps was all "thrown out" and had to come groveling back before the corps-program-doors opened back up. In 1978, at this advanced class.....wierwille was pi$$ed at three 8th corps guys whose research project had a biblical thesis that stood in opposition to pfal. If I remember correctly, their paper challenged the premise whereby "the word takes the place of the absent Christ" doctrine. Truths in scripture point to 'revelation by Jesus Christ' as something far greater than twi was teaching the people. I was appointed a branch coordinator at this 1978 adv class.....and in that first meeting behind closed doors, wierwille was outspoken and seething over their dissent. The groundswell of dissent and pushback was churning underneath the surface. Why Mike Sm!th, a 1st corps grad, was planning his move to Alaska [1981] for secular endeavors illustrates to me that he was MOVING ON WITH HIS LIFE WITHOUT TWI. Whatever his deep-seated motives, he definitely wasn't buying anymore what twi was selling. As stated, in my first post on this thread......lots of factors: "But......years later, in treading down this path, the economic, family and psychological pressures increase to a stage of mounting a counterpoint to "the social pressures of twi." And, I believe, that this cascade of reality came to the fore most significantly when wierwille died. Hidden from view, this awakening was building and building years before wierwille died.....but when he died, it unleashed this subdued controversial mindset held in check by social pressures of acceptance." .

Chose to walk away. In August 1978, my 4th corps Limb Coordinator was making plans to exit twi even though his mom worked at hq. In 1981, my 1st corps Department Coordinator at hq had plans to head to Alaska and pursue secular endeavors. In 1982, in spending time with a 5th corps grad.....he (and family) moved to the Columbus, OH area to pursue his doctorate degree. The corps grads were NOT some monolithic group of wierwille-followers.

Rocky.....good point. Clearly, there were MANY who entered the corps program that didn't get "indoctrinated." Some exited at Christmas break or at the end of the year. Some exited during their interim year, etc... When I think about the corps program, I think it is wise to recognize the 80-20 rule. Also known as the Pareto principle.....wherein an 80/20 percentage is a good rule to discern proportionality. So, rather than paint ALL corps with this broad brush, there is quite possible a proportion of such claims as realistic. Pareto principle

First of all, the "corps folk" numbers around 1976 or 1977 were quite low. If I remember correctly, the 4th corps grads=45 and 5th corps grads=75 thereabouts (+/-). Add to that Family Corps grads and corps spouses might get you near the 220-240 mark. How many of them do you know in your broad brush label of "turds?" Secondly, the smaller the corps numbers the MORE direct relationship to wierwille. Those trained by wierwille, emulated wierwille traits, manners, temperament, style. Have you ever heard of the Zero Corps? Why the failure? Was wierwille too hard, too strict, too much of a bully? Thirdly, the corps was "ordered" to get out there and shake things up to *move the word.* There was a persistent 1)confrontational and 2)competitive nature to the corps program. If that program was pooping out turds, then what does THAT say about wierwille who called this program his kids ??? .

Yeah....good wholesome people, embedded in the community. That's why I referenced them. BUT.....what does wierwille do? He systematically replaces good, solid twig coordinators with young, cocky corps grads who blow into town and, a couple years later, leave a mess for others to deal with as their corps assignment changes. I can completely understand why folks in the areas, like MRAP's situation, got badly burned. Same deal with staff positions at headquarters. As each year passed, noticeably after 1977, the "old-timer" staff were being replaced by a younger crop of corps grads. The heart and soul of all-that-was-good-about-twi was disappearing. What those staffers represented in the early days was irreplaceable. Same deal with Word in Business Conferences. At first, it was productive to converge at these conferences and have breakout workshops.....where business owners and professionals taught specific skills and expertise and answers questions. Plus, add the factor of networking and support systems and these conferences and it was a win/win. BUT, no.....a few years pass and then Don Wierwille (or his Dad) slotted corps grads [uGH] to oversee these teaching and workshops. Sure wasn't the way I related to "Love God, love your neighbor as yourself."

Think about it this way.... 2)others........wierwille and systematizing of error 3)religion......TWI was hyper-religion shunning the world 4)environment...TWI encapsulated the "whole of its followers" One could easily say that 3 out of 4 fronts invites the devil in. Your BEST OPTION is sticking with yourself to keep the devil out.

Oh yeah......"we were taught to ignore the REAL inner voice and wait for 'revelation.'" Time and time again, I kept putting questions and concerns on "the back burner" [in abeyance] per the guidance in pfal. Heck, even in my first pfal class.....I pondered why wierwille's speaking in tongues was so dang repetitive. Fast forward to Dealing with the Adversary class: The four fronts of the devil...1)yourself, 2)others, 3)religion, & 4)environment(?) Translation of messaging: You can NOT trust your own thinking and judgment of spiritual things especially when you are a neophyte. You've got to rely on leadership who teaches "the word." What a slick con. Seems like this con came full circle.....when wierwille died of cancer, having taught in his advanced (cough, cough) classes that cancer is a devil spirit, a life of its own. So, was wierwille possessed when he died? After all, we all know that everything he taught was "the word."

Yes...."That overlord concept rings a bell." 1976....(or thereabouts, 5th corps interim year) and twi-overlords were pushing people around and telling others NOT to attend your wedding. Yeah, and....same goes for funerals. I had a region guy [boob Moneyhands], from another region, tell me NOT to allow this "mark/avoid" brother to attend his own sister's funeral. All the dots connect back to wierwille. Corps were trained indoctrinated to follow wierwille-mandates at every level. Remember, martindale was installed as 2nd president and given the "spiritual mantle"......BECAUSE (drum roll) he never asked wierwille how high, he just jumped at command. See, wierwille hand-picked his leaders and groomed them into HIS image. Martindale was the corps director and commanded campus corps coordinators to follow specific directives. The corps were trained and molded in this chain of command system......NOT in the steps of Jesus Christ. Wierwille was a bully and a charlatan. Start from there and test your hypothesis. .

Aw, what the heck......might as well include this link as well since it epitomizes loathing the overlords. Might as well open up the whole damn "lockbox" for all to see. The Secret Agenda Society

Twinky....yes, I agree with your assessment on the maturity of those running twigs. Clearly, I understand that my situation was different. My introduction to twi, or first twig, was NOT grounded in the community with mature leadership who handled matters of life and living from a broad spectrum of experience (like an Edd!e and D0nna Doers@m). Nope. It was a WOW-twig sent solely into my college town to run pfal classes. So, obviously.... they were young-bloods with energy and running classes added to THEIR success. My mistake was when I allowed their counsel to have any merit in my decision-making or goals. Oh well....I count it all but cattle-dung nowadays. skyrider .

Twinky....of course, social pressure within twig was more pronounced at higher levels in twi. The ability to exert power was leveraged by forces of intimidation, isolation, dependency, etc. as one's whole life was immersed in that subculture of exploitation. For me, any vestiges of nostalgia that existed of "life in the twig" are now gone. In hindsight, the perspective of my life, direction and goals were diverted, in large part, by the social pressure and "counsel of my spiritual betters." Even in those early stages of "twig leadership"....it was that "quit college and give your life to God" fool-hard mantra. In my particular case, this wow-twig was selling the soap of the wierwille business, not the Word of Life in all its fullness. Obviously, I bought the soap....and went WOW, to sell soap. Sure, hindsight is 20/20.....but I would NOT do it again without revelation from God streaking across the night sky, nor would I ever encourage our boys of such endeavor. Yet, in spite of twi and social/economic/psychological pressures mounting year after year..... we made it through this gauntlet of indoctrination. By the grace of God, I believe He made a path that led us out of this wilderness. The scriptures pull no punches in delving into the trappings and failings of those led astray.....and twi embodies those snares.

Absolutely agree with you on that, Raf. That's why I noted "repetitive manifestations" in my first post above. Twi's version of sit/manifestations as a staple of twig fellowships added a social/acceptable conscience to the "believer's exclusionary club." If you did it right, you were accepted. No matter that it was repetitive, contrived, or whatever.....after about a decade or so of sitting thru the religious-ruse, doesn't any one look around and ask some pertinent questions? Profit? Fruit? Prevailing Power? Yep, sit/int was a small slice in the "social pressure pie." .

Oh yeah.... The longer one lingered in this pseudo-christian movement......camaraderie strengthened, relationships were built, memories piled up, wow-sisters, wow-brothers, corps status, girlfriend/boyfriend or spouses, twi-stuffed-in-laws, etc. To disentangle oneself from all this, and wierwille-doctrine, was "the road to perdition." After about a decade of involvement, institutionalization sets in..... especially for them hq-staffers that have a comfy desk job.

When I was first introduced to twi, I was in college.....taking marketing and management classes. My textbooks delved into the strategies, target and scope of a good marketing project. Defining one's target audience was crucial to success. So, while sitting thru pfal.....I couldn't help but see some of these strategies applied. Wierwille was targeting the 1)norms of Christian society, 2)interjecting concepts to disassociate from the status quo and 3)provide an alternative, a higher quality of living. For some, like me.....we had to wait several months before taking pfal. In the meantime, we ALREADY WERE ACCEPTING CERTAIN SOCIAL PRESSURES WITHIN TWIG....as we dutifully came week after week, sang those dorky children songs with hand gestures, listened to repetitive manifestations and swallowed the subculture of "Christian living." Sure, quietly question all you want.....but it wasn't proper to address questions or dissent in twig. The social pressure and fabric, even though it didn't seem all that pronounced......was there. So, if you had a question or two....generally, you were taken to a back room when the "overseer" highly recommended that you sit in the next class to get up to speed. How many times did you approach this crossroad?.....The choice seemed to always have only two outcomes: 1)Stay involved even though you still had these perplexing concerns or 2)Leave and dissolve all communication and contact with these people. The longer one lingers, the more social pressure creeps in the conscience of one's will. But......years later, in treading down this path, the economic, family and psychological pressures increase to a stage of mounting a counterpoint to "the social pressures of twi." And, I believe, that this cascade of reality came to the fore most significantly when wierwille died. Hidden from view, this awakening was building and building years before wierwille died.....but when he died, it unleashed this subdued controversial mindset held in check by social pressures of acceptance. .

Waysider....your point is well taken. In this case, one has to define "soap." Was it? 1) Scriptural truths to better Christian living 2) Wierwille's ministry and pfal class series WOW Ambassadors did NOT go forth as the "opportunity to sell the soap".....they SOLD the soap (2). The goal was to run pfal classes....ie, "the soap." All of wierwille's programs [WOW, College Division, Fellow Laborers, Way Corps] were designed to sell HIS soap, his classes....AND promote others to do it as well. The deceptive perception was that many thought this whole enchilada was about Christian living (1).

Another way to look at this.... When wierwille stated that an Evangelist's primary function was NOT to evangelize, but TO GET OTHER PEOPLE TO EVANGELIZE..... He had simply commandeered the application of Multi-Level Marketing 101. Get others to promote and sell your soap.

"Ever see a group say an Evangelist's primary function was NOT to "evangelize", but to GET OTHER PEOPLE TO EVANGELIZE? Only vpw was that shameless." Hmmm....let's just try to apply that sequence down the line, shall we? And.....a Pastor's primary function is to GET OTHER PEOPLE TO PASTOR THE FLOCK. And.....a Teacher's primary function is to GET OTHER PEOPLE TO TEACH THOSE TWIGS. And.....a Prophet's primary function is to GET OTHER PEOPLE TO PROPHESY IN BELIEVER'S MTGS. And.....an Apostle's primary function is to GET OTHER PEOPLE TO SHARE THIS 'NEW LIGHT.' With wierwille, it was ALWAYS the lazy road; pilfer off of others' labor and service. When did wierwille EVER go to a hospital bed and pray/minister to another? Or, when did ole vic EVER give charitable work to help the downtrodden, the homeless, the abused? The blunt fact is.....it is ludicrous for wierwille name to be co-joined with any gift-ministry label. The guy skewed and skewered nearly ever truth that he plagiarized throughout his life. Wierwille was a swindler and a fraud.....period.

Wouldn't any corporation in the process of hiring an "executive" like John Rupp do an extensive search to check his background? It shouldn't take to long before someone sniffs out GreaseSpot Café and the seedy side of this cult organization. Heck.....just a simple google search of "John Rupp" and one runs smack into The Way International. Wikipedia -- John Rupp

Thanks DWBH.... But I got to tell you.....it's always deeply thought-provoking to read your posts. You have a way with words, and NAILING IT TO THE WALL, for all to see and ponder. The intricacies and multi-faceted deception at high levels was something few have ever been privy to see up close. Yet, you've come to GSC time and time again to expose wierwille, martindale, geer, jal, etc.....as the deceivers they were and are. In fact, you are the only former top-tier guy to exponentially take a stand on this evil, imo, and hammer it home. I continue to be amazed at the vast detail you continue to generate after all these years. Maybe it's just me, but I marvel how wierwille-apologists put vpw on this monumental pedestal..... yet, don't see the utter failure vpw was by any measure of scripture. Manner of Life

Year after year, I just couldn't walk in lockstep with the "wierwille doctrine" that ran, imo, cross-purposes with individual responsibility and common sense. My loathing of twi-leadership had been building for years....and going in-residence AND my staff years only solidified my conceptions. On another thread, I detailed some of this cumulative dichotomy.... Wierwille's Binary Fixation

Amazing and depressing......the more I hear of wierwille's wholesale destruction of people's lives it astounds me that a solid core of enablers kept the leaks from bursting thru. Some of that Donh0ff/Kn@ve account is in Karl's book, The Cult that Snapped. Edit: In case moderators come by to expunge names, I diffused their identities.

Then....I posted this. Imo, that SAME pre-emptive strike was used when wierwille talked about critics [#4 above] who "go after the man of God" in a personal way.....his life, his clothes, his tie.... "pretty soon we get down to bare facts" (delivered for audience applause & laughter). Translation: Wierwille and his personal life is off-limits from public scrutiny.

Sometimes, in an open discussion forum.....a side-tangent erupts that adds great insight to deeper thought-provoking questions. Therefore, rather than seeing this topic get lost and buried into hundreds of other threads...it needs its own thread.

Check post #10......on this thread. This "other poster" [MRAP] is the main reason for the deviation to the "drunk story." .

Brilliant post, DWBH......thanks! Through the years, I've thought about the strategy of pfal and how certain teaching points, stories, or off-the-cuff zingers [ie....preemptive strikes] were strategically placed. 1) The mother feared the death of her little boy....and one day, it happened. 2) All the women in the kingdom.....belong to the king. 3) The town drunk who showed up at church....don't judge, you've never walked in his shoes. 4) If you go after the man of God....his life, his work, his tie....get down to bare facts. 5) I would need to read it line by line....before calling the great Apostle Paul a sex pervert. 6) Billboard sign -- millions now smoking.....subliminal message from a smoker? Some things seemed like preemptive strikes....and other times, when he was dismissive of things, he was simply ignoring it for reasons that railroaded his sociopathic agendas.