skyrider

In terms of this thread, "To The Very End" [see what I did there? ]..... Where were the wives buried? Mrs. Wierwille? Dorothy Owens? Naomi Wierwille? For some reason, I seem to remember that they were NOT buried at the fountain area, right? Bolshevik? CollateralDamage? Chockfull? Bueller? Who knows the details of this? What, why and where? How did twi specify this distinction?

Welcome to GSC.....Collateral Damage Great post....I linked it to thread entitled Cliches, Collaterals, and Claptrap. "I have spiritually sherpa'd a few others out of TWI, and gotten immense satisfaction for helping them think and process, not just bad-mouthing their religion. It's rewarding to truly help people,"..... :eusa_clap:/> .

"Fast forward to a fourth generation being born. Numerous requests from insiders to go on Staff and change from within. By this time, my life had changed. The grind of finally getting (and keeping) a real job meant hard work. I began to feel like everything in the ministry was a motion. Same old collaterals. The articles in the magazine were SOOOO predictable, as were the overly scripted services." REALITY HITS HOME.......there is nothing like finances, family and career choices staring you in the face and all you get from twi is "renew your mind" tripe.

Oftentimes, around here....someone will say that most all the stuff at GSC is like 30-years/ 40-years old. What about any new information on twi? Well......maybe because its all refried beans? Clichés, Collaterals, and Claptrap......Click -- 30 Years And.....this new poster, Collateral Damage, was born into it. Kudos to him for the courage to leave and post here. There is nothing new under the sun....and certainly, nothing NEW in twi. You know the drill. Take the class so that you can ??? (fill in the blank). So you take the class and then, find yourself surrounded by cliché monitors, collateral cultists, and claptrap freaks. Now, you've entered "their" world.....a circle within a circle, within a circle. It's a bleeping, freaking echo chamber. Years and years of claptrap....empty talk, repetitive articles in the way rag. Same deal with wierwille's foundational class.....filled with applause lines. Empty pompous, pious, platitudes pitched to pimp people.

There you go......connecting the dots back to the source. And, if THAT was so whacked......what else? What other whacked revelation was wierwille going to get to "lead us forward?" Burning books, records, etc......all in the name of "Uncle Harry Day." Wierwille was deeply twisted to decree a twi-holiday like that in his brother's name.

Yeah.....wierwille and his lieutenants had a box, but I didn't live in it. :anim-smile:/>/>/> When they did meetings and stuff.....yes, the monotony was sheer drudgery. I despised it. But....when I got to oversee things then I had a different way of doing things. In 1994 and 1995, as a limb coordinator......I had annual limb meetings at the lake. With two ski boats, we had a whole afternoon of water skiing, beach volleyball, games, and lounging around. We fired up the grills for a variety of meats, served plenty of food and snacks....and later, s'mores around the campfire. Some even set up tents and camped nearby for the night. Heck, I even told people that they didn't need to bring their bible. I really think that I stunned a few of them with that one. lol I violated every checkbox from my corps training.....and our numbers just kept increasing. Surprise, surprise. .

The butt-brigade was out in force to make sure that your butt was seated, 10-minutes ahead of time, and with the frame of mind to "receive it with meekness." The higher one's authority [caste system].....the more he/she was allowed to roam around or not attend AT ALL. The little schlubs were ushered in first and near the front. The heavies always would hang back or near the side aisles.

The monotony of twi was killing me.... Sitting in class after class, meeting after meeting.....no wonder Chair Stringing 101 is a prerequisite in corps training. How long does this sufferance need to be tolerated? Who's running this butt-brigade anyways? Two Categories: [A] HQ and Field: Category A: HQ Years ago, when I worked on staff.....it struck me that three groups emerged in this monotony of whether one is obligated or not to have his butt firmly planted in a seat EVERY MEETING: 1) Top-tier.....mog-dom seniority, emeritus, inner-circle, connected, favored, loyal 2) Performers...green room, teacher, emcees, singers, musicians, bodyguards, receptionists, burger-flippers 3) Audience.....regular staffers at monthly staff mtgs, visitors (and staff) at sunday teachings Heck, why did those burger-flippers have such a PASSION FOR THEIR JOB each sunday? Because....it gave them a declared purpose and DUTY to not have their butt in a seat. Add: a/v, security, bookstore personnel, refreshments, receptionists, green room assistants, etc. Some of the "connected" staff could sit in their trailers and watch on closed-circuit monitors.... these were certain staffers that were given protected-status by top-tier from any confrontation. Category B: Field In the earlier years [1970-78]...twigs on the field were fairly loose. You could go, or not go, every week and still be welcomed in. Or, you could hop from one twig to the next....on occasion. If you were not faithful in weekly tithe/abs, it didn't cause major confrontation. Depending on each state, area, and leadership......things started tightening up with each passing year. It got to the point were.....1) Attending twig 3X a week was standard procedure, 2) If you missed twig then you'd better have a good reason or expect confrontation, 3) Monitoring each person, attendance for an upcoming Advanced Class Special was highly expected, of every adv class grad, 4) Having your butt in the seat was as expected as what hq did. Yep.....a total drag.

Downtown Chicago transfer of GOLD and SILVER to wierwille's motor coach. Hiding the money from the IRS during a twit audit....to launder it later. Al Capone, Chicago gangster, and his conviction on tax evasion. The irony of it all........

Needs repeating! Hitting it out of the park.....

Would the following LIST up this FRACTION? Wierwille was a sexual predator. He used the Bible as a conduit for human trafficking, sexual slaves, lustful exploitation, pathological experimentation and narcissistic adulation.

The FINAL production in vic's honor in the Victor Paul Wierwille Auditorium within weeks of his death.

Well......it DOES MATTER to me. There is a huge chasm of difference between wierwille's sexual predation ensconced as president/founder of an organization that stands at his pulpit every week to "speak for God" as opposed to his young, zealous minions on the field who jump between the sheets. Maybe.....that's why vic taught in pfal that all sins are the SAME in God's eyes. No big ones, no little ones. If that's true, then why does the Book of Leviticus detail different levels of payment/punishment for certain types of sins? If all trespasses and sins are considered the same, then why do the elders exact different judgments of payment? Could this be ANOTHER ONE of wierwille's skating obfuscations in pfal to slip underneath the radar?? :nono5:/>/> .

No remorse, no shame....... DEFIANTLY UNREPENTANT......conscience seared with a hot iron.

Yes.....that was me connecting Victor Barnard to wierwille's conduit of wantonness. Victor Barnard Victor Barnard......14th corps grad. He brazenly grafted the wierwille doctrine as his own and spent YEARS in a secluded commune taking wierwille wantonness to a whole new level of sexual succession. Thankfully, after fleeing to Brazil.....he was captured. Victor Barnard CAPTURED

One more thing..... Wierwille was a 62 year old sexual predator when he lured corps women [that I know] onto his motor coach. The guy was a sleazy, lustful GRANDPA that, by first-hand accounts given, sought out corps women for blow jobs. Okay? Got the picture? Now, do you still want to equate this with 24 year old corps guys on the field? MRAP....you obviously have this vendetta against a couple of corps people some 40 years ago, but there is a VAST DIFFERENCE between a young man with unproper boundaries and hormones raging versus a 62 year old "man of the cloth" sexually preying on 20 year old girls. Imagine the untold psychologically damage for years to come. This was sexual predation....not by some young guy, or his father....but like his father's father. A GROPING GRANDPA. No matter how many times this sex stuff in twi comes up......none of it is anywhere near the ballpark of wierwille's sins. That's why I singled out [no pun intended] the aspect of "wantonness" in that list......to spotlight wierwille's aging and corrosive lead pipes that were contaminating every house and community [ie Flint, Michigan]. This contaminated all connected to the source. Wantonness is like a pipeline. One of many. .

Why did twi last so long? 1) Plagiarism......wierwille stole enough material, quotes, framework, etc. to "appear Christian" [wolf in sheep clothing] 2) Charisma........wierwille utilized good words and fair speeches to seduce those who hungered to know truth 3) Credentials.....who knew that it was a degree mill? The whole India itinerary was hype and hyperbole. 4) Enablers........trustees rubber-stamped it, staffers fawned over him, bodyguards protected his secrets, etc. 5) Mystique........audible voice, snowstorms, walked by revelation, crafted a spiritual persona, measured bully pulpit 6) Isolation.......dissenters given bums rush, sexual victims were labeled liars, outspoken corps were cop-outs 7) Cult Commune....tribal/caste system of authority, rung climbers-->classes/programs, secrecy knowledge built intrigue, curiosity & momentum 8) Preemptive......to speak against "the man of God"......a nail driven in the conscience to not speak up [pfal] 9) Groups..........people are a social animal, desire to belong [clubs, movements, causes, secret societies, etc.] 10)Math............recruitment, recruitment...... people have been LEAVING TWI since its inception [1957] .

MRAP....you seem to be missing the point. Wierwille was a man of wantonness [unrestrained, loose, wasteful, no moral fiber, etc].... and patterns of this unrestrained doctrine are embedded thru his teachings. But....this list: 1) swelling words of vanity, 2) alluring others, 3) lusts of the flesh, 4) through much wantonness, 5) living in error, 6) promise followers liberty, 7) wierwille served corruption, 8) a false teacher brings BONDAGE to followers is the tell-tale signs of A FALSE TEACHER.

I know that a number of gsc-posters no longer ascribe to the tenets of scripture-based Christianity.......but I do find it fascinating how II Peter 2 illuminates the trappings of deception and seduction. The cult was a trap....and prison-bars of isolation. Note the deceiver-in-chief (verse 1).......false prophets, false teachers. Love of scripture got me in, and love for life got me out. .

2Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. THOSE THAT WERE CLEAN......ESCAPED from them who live in error.

Again.... wantonness --- a sexually loose or unrestrained person; to be wanton in behavior, action, manner; to waste carelessly or in luxurious pleasures The deliberate and disgusting WASTE of people's energy, drive and dedication to serve God NOT twi, was minimalized and in many cases outright squandered, The remaining twi-leadership must be SO PROUD.

Yeah, Rocky.......you were there in 1978. What a trip that inrez stuff was. But you were smart and exited. Good move. I was in an international corps twig and Mil@gros Fl0res (miracle flower) from Venzuela was my twig coordinator. What a beautiful young woman.....full of joy and excitement. There were so many good-hearted people who simply wanted to love God and help others. Yet, the man in charge.....wierwille was this snake in the grass. 1) swelling words of vanity, 2) alluring others, 3) lusts of the flesh, 4) in search of wantonness, 5) living in error, 6) promise followers liberty, 7) wierwille served corruption, 8) wierwille brought BONDAGE to followers. What a deceptive mess.......ugh.

For those who attended PFAL '77...............wierwille was 60 years old. For those who attended AdvCl '79..............wierwille was 62 years old. For those who attended Living Victoriously....wierwille was 65 years old. For those who attended Sound Out '84..........wierwille was 67 years old. In 1978, I witnessed first-hand and up-close how wierwille "trained" the corps. Whether it was wierwille himself or his top lieutenants, the derisive tone, agendas and trajectory of twi were disturbing to my mind. Clearly, I had embedded an impression of this man thru the lens of a distant projection. Now, as in-residence corps, I was grappling with this growing awareness of heavy-authoritarian control at the helm. Not until many years later would I hear of wierwille's sexual predation.....and then, here at GSC, hearing from corps women who were harassed and assaulted by wierwille. Think about it....in 1978, 79, 80...wierwille was in his early 60s. And, hearing about this.....I know several of THESE WOMEN. wantonness --- a sexually loose or unrestrained person; to be wanton in behavior, action, manner; to waste carelessly or in luxurious pleasures 2Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 2Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. There is the mirror image of wierwille-----1) swelling words of vanity, 2) alluring others, 3) lusts of the flesh, 4) in search of wantonness, 5) living in error, 6) promise followers liberty, 7) wierwille served corruption, 8) wierwille brought BONDAGE to followers. Where was this "great power of God" that wierwille espoused.....WHEN HE COULD NOT CHANGE HIMSELF? Even at 62 years of age, wierwille is alluring women into his motor coach. Howard knew it. Don knew it. Craig knew it. Geer knew it. Donna knew it. Rosalie knew it. To the very end, his grave.....wierwille's wantonness. And still, TO THIS DAY.........enablers and ilk cover for him and this evil.

And..... The angel Gabriel told Zacharias what was going to come to pass even though Zacharias believed NOT his [ie - angel/God's] words which would be fulfilled [Luke 1:20]. Guess that "law of believing" does NOT work with a mathematical exactness every time.......ppffffftttt.

Yeah, T-Bone.....lots to ponder there. Good to see you again. Sometimes, I view the corps as the inflection point in wierwille's agenda. Clearly, vpee desired a "cracked-troop force" [he emphasized this many times] who would carry out his orders......and those orders were to run pfal classes. No questions, no dissent. Note: Inflection Point For a few years, wierwille's corps helped to put some structure and strength to twi, but as the corps numbers grew.......and some opportunists, jerks and nimwads became certifiable corps grads..... the twi-experiment pinnacled [1978] and began rapidly nose-diving. One could easily make the case of multiple factors for twi's quick demise: 1) The wierwille factor: plagiarism, predator, pharisee, opportunist, bully, deceiver, etc. 2) Vpee's brother, Harry, died in the fall of 1977 and, partly, kept vpw in parameters 3) With each passing year, corps grads were challenged with realities of life, children, careers 4) By 1978, twi reached its downward inflection point......more corps grads were dissenting 5) More legalistic language and measures were instituted to STOP the growing exodus 6) Bubbling underneath the surface, corps grads AND adv class grads tired of twi's confinement Corps came in all sizes, shapes, colors, backgrounds, interests, etc......NO MONOLITHIC CORE. Anyone trying to paint this group as a bunch of "brown-shirts" didn't see what I experienced. The inflection point does NOT give credence to twi's apex as some sort of "spiritual pinnacle" but graphs a growing trend of involvement before the sudden downturn. .