skyrider

Your posts raise more questions than they answer: What are those “ unintended consequences?” Twi-followers are mandated to stay away from the GSC website. How would blood-relatives know what you post unless you tell them OR they get on the GSC website themselves? If they are going to this website, then they are disobeying their leadership AND out of fellowship with God, no? If a 32-year old is still that beholden to what others think about his choices and lifestyle, then that person might want to set boundary lines so that he can live his authentic self, right? Where does it say that MY job is to forget? I would argue the opposite. MY JOB IS TO REMEMBER, but still press forward to higher summits in life.

What a strange outcome that would make? If I tip-toed around everything in life so as not to "offend someone".... they would just run roughshod over everything. If NOT offending anyone is the standard practice, then what gives twi the right to go against church orthodoxy? If one takes that position..... THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS, (contrary to common sense).

Totally agree. GSC has been a blessing in every way. If someone doesn't see the benefits of GSC.... then why are they here? Perhaps, that's the real question that certain individuals need to solve.

I am not fighting the way international… I separated from them. I am pointing out their hypocrisy and false teachings. Why have open forums and healthy discussions and debates if everyone is in agreement? If all are in total groupthink, then what you have is an echo chamber.

Your post is unclear. To say that "GSC seeks to harm indiscriminately" is false. What a broad brush you use.

With the light of open discussion, a multitude of counselors, we begin to see that in twi we were surrounded by false teachers. We had entered their territory where they feast on covetousness following after pernicious ways (causing harm, even death)... where they became traders making merchandise of men. No longer were we in a world of buying goods and services.... but rather of judgments, unrighteousness and scorn. They held power over us by feigning to care, yet overthrowing our lives into turmoil that brought us deprivation of discovering our true relationship with our lord and mediator, Jesus Christ. Those trappings held us in bondage. But now.... we are on a clean path. We walk confidently and quickly to victory.

Keep processing, keep breaking thru barriers -- annio All of this "self-discovery" is worth the effort to discover one's authentic self, to discover how you were deceived, and to discover the wonders of life going forward.

~~~~~ I'm trying to understand your '"Double Doors" theory. You stated that "God opened the door for Paul to see Jesus, but the devil pounces in through that same set of doors to try and kill Paul." So, which is it? .... 1) the door or 2) that same set of doors? Aren't you adding private interpretation by injecting in a theory that the Scriptures don't specify? In Genesis 3:22-24.... it DOES NOT SAY that God closed the west door and then, the east door so that neither Adam nor the devil could enter. It says He (God) drove out the man and He placed at the east of the Garden of Eden cherubims and a flaming sword which turned every way to keep Adam, or the devil, from entering. Where are the double doors? One entrance/exit was guarded.... NOT two. Maybe, you are simply referring to a wide entrance/exit when you hypothesize "double doors".... but the Scriptures give us clarity, NOT injected generics. I fail to see your analysis as anything other than private interpretation. You are inserting a theory that can be easily disputed by just reading the Scriptures. Now, I would agree that God gave the devil access to Paul and Adam, because he is a just and righteous God. One access, one entrance.... not "double doors." For Jesus Christ to completely redeem mankind to usher in the gift of eternal life, Jesus had to endure this pain, suffering and death at the cross to righteously restore man (and woman) back to their original state of fellowship with God. For God is love and light and in Him is no darkness at all.

You mean like?? .... The Hunger Games Something that shows the exploited individuals' plight and their struggle to overcome? Something that cuts a fine line between the powerful and privileged demonizing the little guy for profit and ultimate rule? Something that signifies a cult-like doctrine being taught to the masses to ensnare them in a trap? Something that appears to offer keys to open doors of knowledge, health, harmony and prosperity.... only, once opened, this door leads one into a dark, blood-red cavern of nightmarish abuse? Entitled...... The Nightmare Door Has Opened

Yes... at this stage of life, I'm not all that interested in some young teacher's dissecting a topic into one box or the other. There is a much wider perspective to consider than just a limited list of one's statement of beliefs. At times, the guy seemed a little too cagey for me. At least, he did stop and take questions after he'd made his insertions and injections. But if the audience is filled with a bunch of other people are steeped in the same doctrine.... not much of a contested environment. Which, of course..... makes me so thankful for GSC. Here there are a variety of experiences and viewpoints given on any thread. I like this model of thought and feedback.

Thanks for the link. I was amused by that fact that this Edict of Thessalonica was issued on February 27 (380 A.D.)... and today, was February 27th. One of those flukes in life, I guess. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Arian controversy was a series of Christian disputes about the nature of Christ that began with a dispute between Arius and Athanasius of Alexandria, two Christian theologians from Alexandria, Egypt. The most important of these controversies concerned the relationship between the substance of God the Father and the substance of His Son. Emperor Constantine, through the Council of Nicaea in 325, attempted to unite Christianity and establish a single, imperially approved version of the faith. Ironically, his efforts were the cause of the deep divisions created by the disputes after Nicaea.[1][2] These disagreements divided the Church into various factions for over 55 years, from the time of the First Council of Nicaea in 325 until the First Council of Constantinople in 381. There was no formal schism. Inside the Roman Empire, the Trinitarian faction ultimately gained the upper hand through the Edict of Thessalonica, issued on 27 February AD 380 by the then reigning three co-Emperors, which made Nicene Christology the state religion of the Roman Empire,[3] and through strict enforcement of that edict. However, outside the Roman Empire, Arianism and other forms of Unitarianism continued to be preached for some time. The modern Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, as well as most other modern Christian sects, have generally followed the Trinitarian formulation, though each has its own specific theology on the matter.

Genuine Biblical principles and guidelines were sorely lacking in the upper levels of twi’s hierarchy. The bedrock principles of true Christianity that they taught us were highly suspect: True genuine wholeness and salvation, nope. True redemption and righteousness thru our lord and savior, Jesus Christ, nope. Genuine cleanliness washed thoroughly and throughly by the blood of the lamb, nope. Genuine sorrow and repentance for the forgiveness of sin, nope. Wierwille’s doctrine was a long-stemmed glass of red wine laced with poison. Although it looked inviting to drink, it had all the makings of pre-planned deception. If twi really valued us as individuals, as believers, then they would have treated us with respect and reciprocating love. Instead, we were herded around as cattle for the price they could get from us.

Me too. I have no interest in going thru something that has been in debate since the Council of Nicaea.

The "earlier backers" ... those who got involved with wierwille's upstart ministry in 1957 got special perks, housing and assignments. Included in this list would be: Ermal and Dorothy Owens -- Ermal became first Vice President and top advisor to all projects and new construction. Dorothy was given assignments like teaching Christian Ediquette and Protocol to the way corps. She also was given responsibility to oversee the Advanced Class Department. Harry Wierwille -- first top investor and became first Secretary/Treasurer. He was given special recognition thru the years and a book was written in his honor. Howard and Emogene Owens -- Howard became second Secretary/Treasurer after Harry died in 1977. He took over Ermal's position as construction manager and later, oversaw Camp Gunnison. Emogene wielded the most power, second to wierwille (in my opinion). She oversaw the vast network of all operations involving Twi's Bookstore. Shipping, Receiving, Warehousing, Way Publications, Printing .... all, to some extent, fell under her oversight. Queen of Bookstore. Don and Wanda Wierwille -- Don, reluctantly, accepted his father's summons to be the Dean of The Way College of Emporia. Soon thereafter, in Fall of 1977, with the death of Harry... Don became second Vice President to take Ermal's position and Howard became second Sec/Treas. Don also was given responsibility to oversee the College Division at Emporia and Word in Business conferences. Wanda became first administrative advisor to Mrs. Wierwille and oversaw all Housing and Interior Decorating at twi. George and Bernita Jess -- George was labeled "the first Corps Director" (which was in name only) and oversaw the grounds and landscaping. Bernita oversaw the Aramaic research, teaching and publications. Most all others would be listed as Enablers and Opportunists.....i.e. Craig and Donna Martindale, Rosalie Rivenbark, Winegarners, and others who long disappeared down the memory hole. But those who got their "fiefdoms" lived a good life, well into retirement. Howard married Wanda and today, they still benefit richly from their early backing of wierwille.

And.....MLM pyramid schemes are similar to a ponzi scheme. Notice the pyramid picture.... where I would identify the bottom "investors" being at the twig level. They promo the early "investment" of the faithful tithe. The next level would be way corps who promote all the *return on investment* for those who remain faithful a lifetime (rewards at the bema, crowns... a rich and fulfilling return for all those years slaving away in twi-servitude). Wierwille and trustees are at the top of the pyramid.... raking in lives of privilege, perks, adulation, lording over others. What Is a Ponzi Scheme? A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investing scam promising high rates of return with little risk to investors. A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investing scam which generates returns for earlier investors with money taken from later investors. This is similar to a pyramid scheme in that both are based on using new investors' funds to pay the earlier backers. .

WOW.... I never heard the background on this one. Thanks.

When I skimmed thru most of the video... it seems that this guy spends a lot of time trying to dissect wierwille's stance on One God versus the trinity. Of course, he picks some scriptures but certainly neglects other aspects. For instance: If Jesus Christ is God.... then why is he called "the last Adam?" Was the "first man Adam" God too? 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Jesus Christ is referenced as "the Passover Lamb." Wasn't the OT sacrifice of a lamb without spot and blemish to be taken from the flock of the sheep? If Jesus was in existence before (i.e. God, in the beginning of time), then he was NOT taken from the flock of the sheep.... but "of heaven." Or, equivalent. 1Co 5:7 Get rid of the old “yeast” by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us There is a scripture reference that Jesus didn't know the time of his death. If he were God incarnate, on earth, wouldn't he have known the time of his death? None of this validates the times where wierwille took liberties of private interpretation in the Scriptures.... but it does raise valid points that this guy in the video doesn't even begin to address. I could probably cite another ten if I took the time to think more about it.

Yeah.... but the in-house term is BOINKERS.

I still remember our corps meeting in February/March 1998 when martindale's irrational spoutings gave way to sheer nonsense. With all corps on the payroll according to martindale's edict, he was under the gun to see this venture succeed.... since he claimed it was revelation from God. So, as finances tightened each month and abs-totals dwindled, martindale was drastically looking for ways to cut expenditures. As his exasperation grew, he came to the conclusion that NO corps couples should own two cars. Two cars was not needed if the husband and wife will increase their communication between each other. He was dead serious. So, if I was in Tulsa for the day to be at meetings with believers.... how is my wife supposed to pick up kids and/or grocery shop? What about those times when both of us went in separate directions to teach a fellowship? Is she supposed to ask someone to pick her up and take her there? What if one of the boys gets sick and needs medical care and I'm away doing a wedding? This, for me, was the end of my twi-involvement. My mind was sealed with that decision. I just needed to prepare my exit strategy and get far away from this authoritarian insanity. Here I was.... working at a loss AND losing more ground. Martindale was absolutely nuts when he ventured into territories that he didn't understand. Like life and finances.

With each passing year, the logical reason for staying grows weaker and weaker….. unless your ultimate goal is to be on twi’s payroll and lord over others. What I found to be true (even though I kept trying to deny it) was …. with each passing year (and decade), I was working at a loss. From every angle… loss of opportunity, loss of career advancement, loss of family time, loss of dignity, and loss of self. And, wouldn’t you know it that twi NEVER cared. They liked the arrangement of free labor. Manipulation and exploration were right in their wheelhouse. Working at a loss…. there comes a point where twi-servitude reaches its limit. Most generally, this happens on the field with all the hoops to jump thru for outreach, but is growing more common at headquarters as well. That saying, “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care” signifies to me that since I know THEY DON’T CARE, I couldn’t care less how many Greek words they know.

People have been escaping twi's trappings since its early days unto the present. In broad terms, here are some of those times and exoduses: 1960 --- around 30 twi-followers in the Troy/Piqua area exited twi never to return. They didn't want wierwille to move headquarters from Van Wert to the Wierwille Homestead, because they didn't trust vpw & harry from keeping ministry abs-monies separate from the farm operation. 1975-1982 --- dozens of corps grads were aspiring to move on with educational pursuits and career opportunities. Not a formal exodus, but seasoned leaders slipping away each year. It didn't help matters that, in wierwille's anger, he was calling them cop-outs and/or possessed. 1986-1988 --- the "massive exodus." Nearly 80% of corps exited twi during this turbulent time. Geer was given center-stage to address and clarify (arguably) "wierwille's last will and testament." Panic, distrust and rivals entered the fray as trustees were rudderless in attempts to quell the masses. 1994-1996 --- again, more followers were exiting twi due to homo-purge insanity and declaration of "word over the world was accomplished." Advanced class grads and corps disagreed with this assessment and small pockets of resistance challenged the trustees before exiting. 1998 --- at the June/July Advanced Class, there was the incident of the "Colorado Case." Apparently, an in-residence corps wife was caught have sex with another man and was also in Craig's stable of girls as well. A third man wanted sex from her and all this exploded in martindale's face. Possibly, 80-120 people exited when this information spread. 2016, 2017 --- corps grads wanted Rosalie removed from office. With her age and policy choices, she was unfit to lead twi and Rico M@gnelli led the charge. He confronted Rosalie face-to-face and was given the bum's rush. Then several months later, the R&R group was formulating their plans. With all this hemorrhaging thru the years, twi has seen significant downsizing of abs flowing into their coffers. Sure, they have millions in assets and investments.... but they know the trajectory of operating costs, payroll, pensions, and upkeep are going in the wrong direction. And, since they refuse to lessen their grip of power over others.... they devise little guilt trips for attachment incentivizing. The purpose of these attachment gimmicks is their idea of cutting off escape. Three such gimmicks were.... 1) wierwille's corps letters, 2) the cheesy staff promotion video and 3) time to come home? postcard. All three were to stir nostalgia and guilt. Remember, these are tactical ploys much like someone would set a rabbit snare in the woods.... except these ensnare the mind. If twi was so welcoming and needed, then why not just go hit the streets and bring in new people? Why does twi have to go back into their rolodex card files to entice ex-wayfers to come back? The answer is obvious, isn't it?

Yes, it's best to be proactive on that warning. Good point.

I would certainly agree with your take on that, Rocky. For me, having been in Canada for three years during the Chris Geer ruckus.... I was spared from a lot of the drama that ensued in the States. We were in a "different world" of giving and blessings... our Canadian Advances and get-togethers were joyous times of fun, music, sharings and love. When we came back to the States and learned of John Lynn (and others) providing new splinter groups.... I wasn't aware how deeply the schisms were. Yes, leaving twi en mass would have offered me lots of benefits.... unlike when we finally made the exit in 1998. My family, we had come to a juncture with twi that we were NOT willing to accept. Our two boys were moving into their final years at respective schools, elementary and junior high, with good grades and excellent teachers. Everything seemed to be in our best interests to stay in Oklahoma. [Plus, we had recently learned about martindale's sexual predation.] BUT...... Martindale and L@llys wanted us to move back to headquarters as staffers. Plus, they dangled the strong possibility [bribe?] that I would be placed on the "President's Cabinet." But we refused. And, only one person in Oklahoma took a stand for us and followed us out the door. Being singled out on Corps Night with strong character-assassination language.... they also had Limb/Region guys calling around to see if we were making phone calls to others. Damage Control kicked into high gear. Those were challenging days... but here I am. Still. .

One of the reasons to call these men out is to put faces with those who set the traps. Add Rosalie and Donna to the list. None of them held any credentials that qualified them to hold this authority over others. All five of them were raised up within twi's ranks and were incrementally given this "authority" by faithful obedience. Nothing more. They learned the racket of gaining power over others and lusted after it. Each of them were given undeserved adulation, undeserved loyalty, undeserved authority, and undeserved access to such levels of power over others. Only by setting emotional and psychological trappings of guilt and fear were they able to maintain what wierwille started. And, even though thousands of corps have deserted this stranglehold, these "trappers of men" show no remorse or repentance for what they've done. There is nothing wholesome or redeemable about their deeds. They should be counted among the low-lifes, con artists and ponzi scheme advocates who use the abs-monies of existing customers to peddle their influence by claiming higher returns on investment (rewards in heavens, crowns). In their underhanded hypocrisy, Jesus called out the Pharisees and mocked this deception by stating, "....they as such have their reward." In other words.... God sees this injustice and there will be no eternal rewards forthcoming for them. What's even more unconscionable is offshoot groups propagating from the stem cells of the mother plant [cult]. Each new sprouting drawing strength thru wierwille's name..... not Craig, Don, Howard, Rosalie or Donna. Like carnival attractions, there is always someone willing to part with their money for cheap entertainment and attention. Seemingly, these offshoot leaders have done the mental gymnastics too of rationalizing away virtues of morality and common decency. Peddlers in the marketplace of trade, these "sellers of deception" know full-well the body language of a gullible mark. There is no avenue of redress to gain by confronting deceitful cult leaders on their home turf. They hold all the advantages and support from sycophants nearby. All of them ready to mock and label your valid confrontation with aggressive lies and an echo chamber of support. The only path of escape is to pack your bags and get the hell away from them. Twi and splinters have the same recipes but label their soups differently. Maybe one adds a few more onions and garlic powder.... but realistically, it's the same soup. Lastly, it pays rich dividends to know the names of the trappers and the trappings they use. For over twenty years, GSC has been offering the first, clear vision that twi-followers are caught in a trap. No other group offers this direct approach. Nor does any other group have the cojones to back up that claim. They simply offer their own version of a wash-rinse-spin cycle trap. GSC's door is open 24/7 and stays open. You are free to come and go as if you were shopping in a free society. Welcome.

Succinctly stated, chockfull. And, THAT should have been an early indication that we were in a cult. The community churches that I've attended offer support and assistance in a variety of ways, not restrictions. And, most all of these churches show transparency of money received and money spent. Pastors and elders visit nursing homes and hospitals to offer prayer and support to the elderly.... while often, youth pastors encourage mission outreach and youth activities. When was the last time twi's board of directors personally sent out a "Get Well" card to someone in twi that was going thru surgery? Or, heavens-to-Betsy.... made a hospital visit to someone dying of cancer? When one thinks about this, there is an abysmal gap between how cults function and how proper churches operate in the community. One takes, one gives. One spouts policy, the other exhibits love. One constricts, the other breathes life.