skyrider

Thanks again, DWBH........ Yeah......."believe absurdities" Namely......."the law of believing" wherein believing equals receiving Pursuing "God first" is to drop everything from goals, family, friends, career, etc. and join a cult movement Discounting all scrutiny of wierwille's plagiarism, degree-mill doctorate, drunkenness, ineptness, and sexual predation Never able to question or criticize wierwille-mandates, skewed research or classes/programs The "true household of God" doctrine that countered ever aspect of the One Body of Christ Weaponizing verses such as "mark&avoid" to shut the door on dissenting voices And........."commit atrocities" The definition of atrocity..........behavior or condition that is inferior, dismaying, appalling or offensive Every twi-class and program was skewed/marginalized to overthrow individual thought and control...... Inferior classes.......targeting individuals to sway them to allegiance towards cult, not God Appalling conditions were not addressed on WOW program, nor corps program Herd mentality......droning of information........static conformity......adding to cult culture Offensive to individual growth, liberty, prosperity, lives and career.......stagnating all potential The cult life is a black hole...................

WOW............there is a lot to unpack in Mrs. Wierwille's account. Vic Wierwille had attended the 1951 Divine Healing convention in Tulsa and still had no answers to power/prayer. When their own daughter, Mary, had lumps under chin/jawbone......she wasn't taken to a doctor immediately? The claim that Leonard's publications "wasn't readable" seems dubious.....to cast Leonard's work in a negative light. "Wasn't readable".......yet, they got the address and phone contact information from it. Leonard prayed for Mary over the phone.......and, according to Mrs. W., she was healed. One of Leonard's students, Lee Vayle, came to Ohio to teach the wierwilles and others. Lee Vayle.......taught and instructed Rhoda Becker and others how to speak in tongues. Never......in all my years in twi, did I hear about this deep dive into these details. Wierwille had no answers nor position of authority......UNTIL he took Leonard's class. B.G. Leonard's class TOTALLY changed the trajectory of wierwille's life and work. No wonder......years later, wierwille put distance from these facts in retelling historical accounts. His narcissism couldn't handle the truth......of how meager his life was before Leonard and others.

Mike...............Mrs. Wierwille gave a very different, and extensive, overview of this whole timeline and build-up to B.G. Leonard's class. .......page 87 (BATS) "Our Christmas holiday preparations in 1952 were under way. Once more we were decorating the church, and I was putting in many hours helping there. At that time Dr. Wierwille and I noticed that our eight-year-old daughter, Mary was developing a lump under her chin. Within a week another lump had begun developing, under her jawbone. Mary's change in appearance was quite obvious, and people decorating at the church began asking me, "Have you taken her to a doctor?" I had to admit, "No, I haven't." These well-meaning women persisted in asking me about taking her to the doctor to the point that I could no longer answer them patiently. I knew I couldn't stay in harmony with the other helpers, so I thought I'd better do something about this. I called our dentist and made a same-day appointment." "The dentist saw Mary and with great concern said her problem was not anything in his area of expertise and that I'd better take her to see our physician right away. I had no intention of going to the physician. I didn't want her scarred from surgery, let alone the fact that anything serious could not be cured through the medical know-how of that time. But by going to the dentist, I then had a response when the ladies asked me about taking her to the doctor. I could say, "Yes, I've taken Mary to the doctor," even though the doctor was a dentist, not a physician." "There was no way of explaining how Dr. Wierwille and I felt about this situation with our daughter because we didn't even know ourselves. We were prayerfully deciding what to do when we agreed that we would ask B. G. Leonard to minister to her. Dr. Wierwille had met him at the convention in Tulsa in December of 1951 and received publications from him following that. But the quality of printing of Leonard's publications was always so very poor that Dr. Wierwille threw his materials away without reading them, the print simply wasn't readable." "At the same time that Mary and I were returning home from our appointment with the dentist, my husband was burning his office wastepaper, and one of the pamphlets from B. G. Leonard was on the top of the pile after he turned over the wastepaper basket. He pulled the pamphlet out of the fire to keep the address. So we referred to that address, (page 88) got the phone number, and called B.G. Leonard in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, to ask him to minister healing to Mary. After praying with B.G. over the phone that day, we just thanked the Father for healing her." "At the time we called him , B.G. Leonard was in the middle of teaching a three-week class called 'The Gifts of the Spirit,' so he couldn't come to see us; but he added on the phone that if we needed any more help we should call Lee Vayle, a student of his living in Florida, who would personally come to help us. B.G., as we lovingly came to call him, assured us that Mary would be all right. We knew that he could only have known that by revelation, so Dr. Wierwille and I relaxed and were greatly comforted. In a matter of a few days, Mary's one lump went away, and in another week the other one disappeared also." "Since B.G. mentioned it, Dr. Wierwille thought Lee Vayle from West Palm Beach, Florida, should come to Van Wert and teach us more about the manifestations of holy spirit. So in the excited afterglow of Mary's healing, we invited people to join us who were interested in this field to also learn from him when he came in the middle of January 1953. Some, but not all, of our congregation were interested." "When Lee Vayle came, he reassured us about Mary's healing and taught us more about the manifestations of holy spirit. We gathered in our living room with those interested, and Lee ministered holy spirit to anyone who had not yet received it into manifestation, which included Rhoda Becker. Lee Vayle instructed us from his knowledge of holy spirit, mainly about the inspiration manifestations of speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophecy." ~~~~~~~~~~~ page 90 (BATS).... "Ever since the Divine Healing convention in Tulsa in December 1951, and since Rev. B.G. Leonard prayed with us for Mary's healing over the phone in December 1952, Dr. Wierwille's hunger for more knowledge about God's healing power was piqued. In late winter, February 1953, Dr. Wierwille felt the need to spend time with B.G. Leonard. He related, 'I called B.G. Leonard on the telephone. He told me he loved me, but that I couldn't come up to see him because he was in the middle of teaching a class. I took the next plane to Calgary, Alberta, Canada anyway.' ......." "B.G. Leonard called his work in Calgary 'The Christian Training Centre.' Dr. Wierwille described his first impressions there: 'I walked in and B.G. was in the middle of announcements. They must have lasted an hour and a half. Then he took his violin and played hymns for a while. When he finally started preaching, he taught his heart out for another hour and a half. Then everyone left and I sat there. He said, 'I thought I told you that you couldn't come.' and I said, 'Yeah, but I didn't hear you." Picture on page 90........February 1953 Class Photo: B.G. Leonard seated in middle of front row, flanked by two women on each side, and three men in back row (vpw in middle of back row).

Yeah......the cult is retrenching its classes and bulwarks. The "renewed mind" class and "defeating the adversary" class turn the spotlight on YOU.............to get you on the defensive. Screw that! The cult classes are designed as a door-stop......to keep your mind partially open to doubt so that the cult can enter at will........

Yes, all of us have our own set of experiences, relationships and length of involvement..... On GSC, I have documented much of my thinking processes and involvement in twi............Insanity on Steroids On one hand, it pains me to think about all the red flags and doubts I had, and saw, during those years......many more than I have documented. In some ways, it is gut-wrenching embarrassing to admit that I was taken in by a cult and its flim-flam veneer. Ugh........and leave it at that. .

Well said. I concur with everything WW said in this post. BG Leonard's class had already started and then, wierwille showed up. BGL let him in.

Mike.....as you noted, "unorganized responses"......it looks like you're all over the map on this reply. So, to even respond to you......I'll have to address its components. "One is the supremacy of BG Leonard’s class. I heard that on production/market side it sucked, and that BG was an even bigger jerk than VPW." Not sure I've heard anyone here state it that way......."the supremacy of BG Leonard's class"........but most assuredly was the origins of wierwille's October 1953 class and subsequent classes where he patched in some of Stiles and Bullinger, also. And, what's with your comment on "BG was an even bigger jerk than VPW".............Mike, I don't know if you meant that the way it came out, but are you referring to victor paul wierwille as a jerk? "BG could have never marketed his product to the hippies and the baby boomers…. Just never!" And your point is?........I'm not sure that this statement will have much weight around here, because many (most) of us are in the camp that it was a detour regarding life AND Christianity. Wierwille was into building a cult, not preaching and practicing true Christian doctrine and the One Body of Christ. "BG was in great error in that he taught SIT was a gift. How many other errors and wrong slants did his class have?" And, wierwille was in great error when he went off on tangents of the absent Christ and skewing dispensationalism. In fact, Mike........I've stated this many times on this site, so please bear with me.......I was on staff, corps and in wierwille's presence dozens of times in unique situations and NOT ONCE did I ever see the man operate any of the "big six manifestations" even when he claimed a guy was possessed in the BRC. All wierwille did was get angry, stammer meaningless wordspeak and tried to intimidate him with confrontation. "Has anyone EVER entertained the thought (and collected data) that most of what we mean by “originality” is actually multiple-hidden sources? Well.....if you want to explain your hypothesis on it, you might want to rename it. According to Wikipedia.....originality is the aspect of created or invented works as being new or novel, and thus distinguishable from reproductions, clones, forgeries,or derivative works. An original work is one not received from others nor one copied from or based upon the work of others. "As for Mrs Wierwille, who ever said her words were canonical? And who ever said VPW’s words were canonical? Not me. I say he was often wrong. It’s only what he put in book and magazine form that I see as special. I never held that all his memories would be accurate." So, on point 5............is that how you think God via holy spirit operated in wierwille? Just so I got this straight.........you believe that wierwille was often wrong when he spoke or taught, but when he put things in writing that was special?

Holy Schmoly.........that ornament sounds like it comes with devil spirits attached. /sarc Remember when we used to take items to throw in the fire at Burn the Chaff day? Things like.........record albums, crosses, jewelry, idols, ornaments, pictures, etc. anything where devil spirits hitched a ride into a person's life? OMG.........could this cult thing get any more whacked?

Hey Mike......I see you made your way back to GSC. Before I answer your questions, I was wondering if you cared to comment on several of my posts in this thread. Noted: Mrs. Wierwille gives first-hand documentation of her husband's life and twi's history in her 1996 book, Born Again To Serve. Most specifically, the B.G. Leonard's foundational classes in Calgary, Alberta and that whole timeline. It is clear that victor paul wierwille was ensconced in the denominational church mindset and had NO ORIGINALITY OR CONCEPTS percolating in his thinking......SO HE ATTENDED OTHER MEN'S SEMINARS AND RETREATS. And, when he found his way to B.G. Leonard's foundational class.........then, he set the wheels in motion for an "independent, class-based ministry" outside of the denomination structure. The whole timeline connects the dots and how wierwille "put it all together."

Rosalie Fox Rivenbark snaked her way to the top of wierwille's cult........as health issues (don wierwille/cancer) and legal counsel (craig martindale/sexual predation) ousted these men from wierwille appointments. In August 2000, Rosalie had the reins of this cult in her hands. As president, what did Rosalie do for those 16 years of her reign 2000-2016? Damage Control Measures........yeah, she had to tread lightly and secretly as martindale was ousted. Slowly and methodically....rebuild and reshape the BOD to give her strategic advantage and cover her weaknesses. Keep the railroads running.......the WAP class was now anathema, so corps were mandated to "teach those wap classes." Micromanage Sunday Services.....the reading of sunday sermons became the norm and a yawn-fest was the result. Three Puppets teach new class.......Rosalie can't teach or inspire anyone. She rules by fear and intimidation. Strategically build twi's financial assets to $64 Million.........in case people and abs-contributions dissipate. Run off staffers that have health issues.......silence anyone in twi that is asking too many questions. Keep debt policies in place........no matter how many times it was researched and debunked. People keep exiting the twit-cult.......but people are replaceable. Always have been. The Resistance was growing: Resistance to the same old, same old micromanagement. Boring teachings, pathetic classes, sanitized explanations........the outreach was dead. More corps were exiting that those being "trained" each year. The programs were a joke.......and no one was laughing. FINALLY.........enough corpse leaders rallied to challenge Rosalie. She had her shot.....and failed. She was too legalistic. And, now......too old. FINALLY.........by August 2016, a seven-page letter was sent to address their concerns and dissent. Rosalie refused to give audience to such claims, but would be willing to meet with corps couples. She refused to give them advantage in numbers......trying to suppress these claims and then, target those who speak out. FINALLY.........a new president is "installed" in January 2017. LOL. And, Rosalie is slotted as vice-president !! Months later,...........the moynihans, horneys, forts, fredericks, sheldons, etc. are labeled with the pozzezzed label, m&a. What a kick in the head !?!? Same damn thing that wierwille did over and over again...only different terminology. Rosalie and Donna even bring in Marcia Faulk Greene to add to the girls' club.......as Chandler, Bill & Marcia's son, is the (cough, cough) corps coordinator. Circle the wagons and buy another keg of beer. Woohoo. The Cult will continue to find a way to survive......and scheme......and deceive. Rosalie's Cult Tactics 2.0 Re-teach old classes with new faces to reach a new generation..... The wagon train moves forward......it may be grueling, but it's moving.... It doesn't matter how many remain.......whatever it is, it's a "remnant of the faithful" Delusional and deceived, the cult is not going to change........EVER. And, Rosalie is going to wield power as long as possible. When she can't..........Donna and Marcia will. .

Yeah............and the first of four-fronts of the devil that you need to beware of is YOU. The prison of the cult NEVER changes...........

Well..........it looks like I missed Oldskool's post in August concerning this face-plant group. Therefore, my comments are in red.......inserted for translation.

So................ How's that Revival and Restoration thing going? I haven't heard a peep............if you can't revive it in seven-months, it might be dead.

There I was.........a young, college kid taking my 900 Kawasaki for a ride. The streets were quiet and the temperature was perfect for motorcycle riding on this sunday morning. After about an hour of cruising, I ventured to a nearby park where I wanted to stop and stretch my legs. I had noticed a small gathering of people in the distance so I throttled down to keep my presence non-disturbing to others. After parking my bike, I went for a short walk to take in the quiet serenity. Knowing others were in church, I always viewed sunday mornings as a time of prayer, reverence, and meditation. So, it came as a bit of a surprise when I walked back to my Kawasaki that a young man was standing there holding a Bible. He told me that he was a "WOW Ambassador" and that he and others (in that nearby group) were here in the city for one year to show people the essence of biblical research and how the Scriptures interpret themselves. Anyways............he invited me to a "twig fellowship" to check it out, and after three or four phone calls prompting me to attend, I went. I didn't see the selling of snake oil..........but I did see a couple of things. Having taken marketing classes in college, I sniffed a couple of marketing ploys in pfal that I thought wierwille used that seemed shady. But hey.......I was just a young buck, what did I know? It wasn't like I was getting involved in a cult......../sarc. I saw young people who greeted me with hugs and enthusiasm and a zeal to know God... I saw youthful vigor and concern for my life and where I was headed, now and the eternal.... I took pfal and thought, even with its quirkiness, that it answered most of my questions.... I thought those manifestations seemed repetitive......but that it was the beginning stages of holy spirit within... Except for pfal, I couldn't have cared less about twi's hq, policies, bureaucracy or the man, wierwille.... As a young nineteen year-old, I only really cared about those around me......a small circle of "friends".... Small, incremental steps.........that's what it takes to indoctrinate someone, anyone. Every time I attended twig or threw money into the horn-a-plenty, I was confirming my allegiance to this "outreach group." Of course, within weeks after taking pfal, I began to realize that these people in my college town were "neophytes" compared to others in this "way tree thing." But......all my growing trust and relationships were with THESE people, not the distant headquarters, or whatever. Every week and month that I spent going to twig and taking other classes, I was bonding my love and trust factor to them. Then, after eight months........the pleas for me to "go WOW" were constant. "You should go -- just one year, give one year to God and watch how He blesses you"......you won't believe how far He can take you in your life as you give to Him. So, after all the love-bombing and pleas, etc............I quit college and went WOW. Now, I had put more distance between my college education, college friends and room-mates, my parents and family.......and solidified my allegiance, and the decision I'd made, by plunging headlong into the WOW year. What a roller-coaster ride of a year...........some wild times, bare-cabinet moments, scary moments, answers-to-prayer moments and camaraderie with my WOW family thru tough times so that we could return to the ROA, having fulfilled our commitment to God. See, fulfill your vow.......that's what God honors. Keep your hands to the plow and don't look back......... Incremental steps........why would I go back to college when God has other plans for me? Go Way Corps, you've got what it takes......commitment, dedication and passion for the truth... This wasn't "selling snake oil"............THIS was me, my life, and how God needed me to help "move the word"..... At age 21.......who sees a deceptive, underlying, exploiting charismatic leader hiding in the shadows? BUT..............my first red flags came from the CF&S class and my first year in-residence when wierwille lashed out at corps grads who were exiting as cop-outs? I was stunned by the vehement anger and tone. At the 1978 Advanced Class, I was selected as a Branch Coordinator and was summoned to our coordinator's meeting in the Fireplace Room with Wierwille and Martindale. At this meeting was when wierwille blasted the three 8th corps guys for going "rogue" in their research and were possessed. This anger was laced throughout that advanced class.........and the following months of my first four months in-residence. I should have exited corps/twi then and there. Emotions and relationships, I believe.......are a MAJOR part in why people stay in this cult. Most people formulate their decisions on emotion, not logic......and certainly not "biblical research techniques". LOL. People stay in a cult and REFUSE to see the "snake oil".......it doesn't matter how "educated" they are. It takes something rather dramatic, or personal.....to see the snake oil, and get out. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. ............and still in a cult. .

My first WOW year in Syracuse, NY.......we signed up Mark Leven for pfal. After that class, it wasn't long before his parents, Seymour and Gloria, saw the remarkable changes in his life and got involved in twi. What a chain of events............. What an intricate weaving we all added to this cult.........

Thanks DWBH....... Once again, I am amazed to see that ONE CRISIS in a person's life totally cements that person to a cult. Every dynamic of her life and her son's life was changed, because of his decision to go WOW first......rather than sticking to his plan to go to medical school for OB/GYN. Life happens right before our eyes. Each decision alters the next decision......and none of us have foresight. Even in reading this account, I am saddened to hear that Carolyn had to endure this pain of the death of her son, Craig. There it is again........the dynamic intricacies of "why someone stays in a cult".... Tragedy / Crisis / Death / Transition .......and a cult ensnares your allegiance a lifetime Emotion.......one of the biggest drivers of forming one's allegiance to another Now it makes more sense...........why she stayed in twi. Thanks.

....... ....... In what I observed and remember........Dr. Rawlins became involved in twi around 1976. Yes, she was an early supporter of wierwille/twi and her son, Chris, went into the corps program (if I recall correctly). But even then......Dr. Rawlins was heavily involved in her medical career and on the backside of a long, professional, reputable career wherein she'd impacted thousands of lives. She stood head-and-shoulders above the cult's agenda and drivel. Her distinguished career would have filled a wall of plaques and awards. She had ALREADY established a foundation, lifestyle and reputation before the cult..............yet, she got indoctrinated as well. From her perch and experiences, I would have thought that she'd see thru the deception and façade and exploitation of this cult before us young-bloods. Yet, she stayed.......thru the 90s, right? Even into the rivenbark era? Her example was so powerful that she led credibility to the cult........kinda like a Tom Cruise for Scientology.

And, once again...........THAT is what made twi a toxic mixture of good and bad. "Dr." wierwille taught a sleazy, low-ball, slang-laden sex class and put it in the category of "Christian family"...... Dr. Rawlins taught an in-depth, real-life material of life, sex, hormones, and reproduction.....and answered questions from the students. Amazing to me.......that she, in all her life's experiences and expertise, couldn't see the cult's grip and encroachment on her reputation.

Yeah.....a whole case study would unveil how twi was always grabbing for the coattails of money, privilege and reputation. Money..............lynn sr. and gifting that big, limb home in Indianapolis to twi. Money..............reahards building that home in the way woods Privilege/Fame........Irving Fryar, professional football player......or that woman tennis professional......or that amazing rodeo clown Reputation........Dr. Carolyn Rawl1ns who had delivered some 20,000 babies BEFORE taking pfal...... Money/privilege/fame/reputation..............ALL before taking pfal. Yet.........wierwille/twi were "glory-grabbers" trying to make it look like pfal CHANGED everything.............pppfffffffftttttttt. And then, there were people like gary and patricia. If I remember correctly, patricia was an only child and her wealthy parents were from NY or NJ. Clearly because of family wealth, gary and patricia were able to move into a nice, three-bedroom home within a couple of months of graduating from the 8th corps. Nice home and furnishings......and a good environment to start one's family. But.....I do chuckle a bit, in reading about that class "Keys to Financial Liberty wherein G@ry Fr3d3rick teaches things like net worth, budgeting, tracking finances, recovering from a hardship, retirement planning"....... I would think that many of us here on GSC could better teach the aspects of recovering from a hardship..........

Yeah.......and a large gift/inheritance from the wife's side of the family sure boosts one's lifestyle, too. LOL In 1980.....after just graduating from the 8th corps, gary and patricia go on hq-staff, buy a house in st. marys [no mortgage ??] and gary drove a shiny bmw. To their credit, they don't flash their lifestyle around......but clearly, they were not in the "same neighborhood" as us other staffers. Ever notice.......those with money hung in the same circle of friends? You know, those families that have pictures of yearly trips to Vail or Steamboat, Colorado to ski for a week. A series of pictures of the whole family decked in the finest ski jackets and/or wining and dining at exclusive restaurants. Wierwille and twi always gave preferential treatment to those with money ties.......lynns, moneyhands, and others. So, yeah........it ain't all that hard "to budget" when your parents gift you with a million or two (before you even have the firstborn).

Yeah.........disconnected words ..................disconnected hearts ..................disconnected actions ..................disconnected from the Lord Jesus Christ Rom 16:18 - For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

EXACTLY!

The adults walked away............... The adults saw thru vic's schtick ...... The adults had their own lives and work to do.... The adults weren't going to get succored into cheap, knock-off sex tripe.... All thru the years, 1958--->.........most adults walked away from wierwille.... The youth stayed........ Checking things out......and the camaraderie of others around them.... The young mind is not fully developed until age 25... The naïve mind dismisses things that a discerning mind sees.... The "renewed mind" doesn't see sin in "the man of god" [pfal]...../snarc The cult mind has been indoctrinated by incremental steps.... The culthead invests decades into worthless drivel and cult worship.... Damn.......sure wish that I'd WALKED out of that CF&S class and away from twi !!

Just to be clear, don't you mean.................dic'in'what'shername? Sorry......it just seems fitting to call out the sexual predator that "preyed on the youth and abused/manipulated us for years."

OMG..............every time I think that I've heard the full extent of wierwille's demented pathologies and depravity, THERE IS MORE. I agree that this CF&S class was the "most stupid" [perverted] of all of dictor's classes.........for me, it was nauseating and repulsive. At that juncture in my life, I wanted to learn about the true fabric of marriage, a husband and wife, and a Christian family in relationship to honoring God. Even back then, my young mind was throwing up RED FLAGS........the "vibe" of the intent of this class seemed off. I couldn't discern at the time why it rubbed me wrong, but I remember how I felt sitting in CF&S the first time. And yes, it was a pre-requisite for taking the advanced class. Wierwille didn't take the high road in teaching CF&S............he took the low road. Even that whole "virtuous woman" segment seemed out of place in this class......as if it were a "thank you" to mrs. wierwille for sitting next to wierwille to mask his sexual perversions and marginalized mog-hood. The dutiful wife, and Tick-the-German Shorthair, were present for the magician.....er, teacher to use sleight of hand right before our eyes while the sexual perversity drops thru the hidden stage floor.