skyrider

Some of the most contested threads from years ago involved...........wierwille-defenders protecting their idol. VPW didn't steal anybody's ideas The Law of Believing Twi taught us to be abusers Way Corps Vet All the Women in the Kingdom belong to the King adultery vs soul stealing .

Yeah, T-Bone..........so thankful that GSC is here. It really is amazing to go back thru those threads like say.......pages 88-179. Hundreds upon hundreds of posters have benefitted from this information.......and presumably, living life well now.

Yeah, chockfull.........there is a major struggle for these wierwille-apologists to internalize what happened. It is really quite something to EXPERIENCE the intimidation, manipulation and exploitation.....year after year. Behind closed doors, wierwille's vehement anger was unleashed on the corps time and again. Everything ratcheted up in 1978........when the rock of ages was "ordained" to be at the root, at hq. 1978..........roa at headquarters! 1978..........last year before adv class went "in-house" 1978..........confrontation of three 8th corps gone research-rogue 1978..........shell of OSC building; transitioning from BRC underway 1978..........more campuses / more corporate structure IMHO........the narcissist set his sights on "his legacy." Full-speed ahead.

For those who had only a brush of involvement with twi, it is understandable that they didn't see behind the mask. On the field, away from twi's headquarters........there were many, MANY good twig coordinators in the mid-to-late 70s. During this time, it was common for faithful followers to hobnob from one twig to another across town. It may be really difficult, now, to realize that the way ministry exuded strong Christian tenets of love, giving and support at the local level. At each twig fellowship.......two or three songs were sung at those fellowships each night that came from Christian denominations: What a friend we have in Jesus Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus My Jesus, I love thee In the garden My Jesus of Blue Galilee I love to tell the story Great is Thy Faithfulness etc. For those who ask, "How could you join a cult?"..........it wasn't like that in the early 70s on the field. There was no monitoring, no mandating which fellowship to attend. If someone across town was teaching hot bible......that's where the action was. At times, some one would not show up for a month.....but was welcomed with loving arms when he/she returned. Nobody joins a cult willingly (wittingly). In every thing that I've learned or experienced, I would say that wierwille pulled his mask off more openly around 1977.....definitely, by 1978. The confrontations became more widespread and intense. A mandate swept thru to replace The Blue Song Book with the brown song book [.....was this because twi was pressured on using copyrighted songs without permission?....]. Some of the high-profile leaders were starting to stand up and challenge wierwille's authoritarian style and doctrine......while others exited, like Peter Wa-de in 1975. In December 1977.......wierwille begins writing his corps letters and laments that corps are exiting. Letters to the way corps Thirty letters........evidence that wierwille was using another tool to shame and guilt the corps. The problem persisted AND ESCALATED........because wierwille did not change course. Corps kept exiting, because they were being manipulated and exploited. Wierwille knew the tactics of incremental steps. Sure........it took YEARS before it became manifestly clear to the general public. And, then......most notably, Christopher C. Geer took to the podium in 1986 to label craig, don, and howard as "the problem" for everyone being off the word. Good Golly.....Miss Molly! What a load of steaming bullschit. What is so freaking crazy is that there are STILL corps today who believe that wierwille was this benevolent, prophesying man of God. And, here at GreaseSpot........the wierwille-defenders refuse to connect the dots. Go back thru the threads......and you'll see that NONE of the staunch wierwille-defenders ever changed his opinion. And, I say "his"......because, as far as I know, every one of them were men. With overwhelming evidence of wierwille's sexual predation........they dismiss it compared to "the greatness of pfal that he taught." We see it on present threads. You can see it on threads 15 years ago. Go back thru the threads.......and read it for yourselves. Wierwille-defenders protect their idol, wierwille. Seems to me...............wierwille-defenders STILL want the mask back on.

Maybe, this is........ ......seems like this thread has been all over the map...... .......but, it just seems to me, that once again another thread was hijacked and all the focus is about Mike. And, for those who've been long participants of GreaseSpot........know that these wierwille-defenders show up time and again to derail or diffuse the essence of the thread topic. I wouldn't be surprised if another 20 pages were added as Mike's proclivities and innuendos banter back and forth. Of these "wierwille-defenders"..........did any one of them EVER change their opinion? ........even when a corps girl was drugged and sexually assaulted and gave her first-hand account, wierwille-defenders REFUSED to believe it. ........her heart crying out to be heard.....deeply abused, deeply broken ........the only deep way she could convey what happened to her in twi.........was "soul stealing" ........adultery vs soul stealing ** A poster took to her defense on page 8........to try and knock sense into this wierwille-defender. [ 15 years ago ] ........one of the great threads on GSC.......to try and engage a wierwille-defender to stop and think deeper.....

Yeah, Rocky................and then some !!! 15 years ago........this 9th corps girl spoke out here at GSC, adultery vs soul stealing

So, wierwille after NINE years.........needed a new strategy: A PLOY. ploy — keep a group of people stuck in a bad situation as long as possible in order to use them as pawns in a larger game of abusive power. exploit them -- use their youth, connections, talent as long as possible.......(and guitar singers got a direct-pass to the "green room" -- cha-ching) notice -- wierwille never had a long-range plan on anything. Whatever was "hot" at the moment was put to use. promoted corps graduate with "associates degree"........yet, it had to slip thru the backdoor via Rome City, Indiana Campus wanted sunset corps to "invest in own cabin" at camp Gunnison......and, upon death, twi-owned: NOT ONE PERSON FELL FOR IT. The corps program was the biggest ploy of all.........because it amplified wierwille's sphere to rule with unaccountability. A ploy NEEDS time to germinate........with the proper climate and conditions. Behind closed doors in isolated campuses........indoctrination ensued at an escalated pace. Anyone who quit was immediately labeled and ostracized from spiritual credibility or standing. Under the auspices of "spiritual training" and "spiritual maturity".......dissent was kept at bay. Those MOST obedient were promoted......and the self-referencing echo chamber got louder. Deep within an isolated campus, a private motor coach, guarded by a sycophant......sexual predation abounded. Bad situations got even worse........sexual abuse, psychological turmoil, abortion, excommunication, etc. Loss (extreme marginalizing) of family, opportunity, time, finances, support networks, educational pursuits............

Point taken..... .....but need to clarify that axiom "giving = receiving." On a number of occasions, that proclaimed belief "giving = receiving" was taught. It even was taught/proclaimed by martindale and townsend......possibly, others. I remember, this was clarified and a couple of weeks passed by..........and Rev. L0nnell Johns0n took this false teaching head-on at a Sunday service and taught Giving and Receiving. The reason why this was so vivid to me.........is because some people in the corps started skewing "giving = receiving" in terms of planting (i.e.....when you plant a kernel of corn you get corn, or if you plant a grain of wheat, you get wheat). Thus to say.....when you give (plant), you then receive (reap). Equating that planting a kernel of corn......you reap back what you sow, another kernel. That is NOT true. Giving = Receiving.....NOT. Having grown up on a farm......I knew that was just crazy talk. When you plant a kernel of corn..............you, generally, get two ears of corn per stalk. In other words, you get 800 kernels per ear of corn.......or 1,600 kernels. Planting a grain of wheat yields even exponentially more in return. Think about it in terms of Malachi 3:10............Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So, bring in 1/10th of your crop to the storehouse........and the Lord of hosts will pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it! Now THAT.....is receiving FAR MORE IN ABUNDANCE/BLESSING.....than what one was giving. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Imagine........if twi wouldn't have been so tightfisted (and doctrinally skewed) in helping others......... ......what could have been the exponential help to others? ......what could have been the exponential numbers of faithful followers? ......what could have been the exponential wealth to administer to those in need? [rather than hoarding a measly 67 Million for themselves...ppfffft]

Wierwille proof.......er, spoof

Yes.......in my opinion, there were genuine Christians, young and old, intermingled and serving in wierwille's minus-try. There were dozens of older staff at hq serving in positions of support services who'd come from surrounding denominational churches. And, remember.......in the early 70s, singing all those songs, "Yes, it is Jesus" and "My Jesus, I love thee" and "How Great Thou Art"......etc. etc. By 1977, 1978...........the Blue Song Book was replaced. Teachings became more "us versus them" and "crowns at the bema." ~~~~~~~~~ Regarding wierwille "expecting others to be his property for life" or his "absence of such thinking".........may not have even surfaced in his mind. From all indications short of having wierwille clinically diagnosed of Narcissistic Personality Disorder........his life displayed all the symptoms. For example, those with npd have these associated features: People with NPD tend to exaggerate their skills and accomplishments as well as their level of intimacy with people they consider to be high-status. Their sense of superiority may cause them to monopolize conversations[9] and to become impatient or disdainful when others talk about themselves.[6] In the course of a conversation, they may purposefully or unknowingly disparage or devalue the other person by overemphasizing their own success. When they are aware that their statements have hurt someone else, they tend to react with contempt and to view it as a sign of weakness.[6] When their own ego is wounded by a real or perceived criticism, their anger can be disproportionate to the situation,[9] but typically, their actions and responses are deliberate and calculated.[6] Despite occasional flare-ups of insecurity, their self-image is primarily stable (i.e., overinflated).[6] Whether purposefully expecting the corps to subordinate their entire lives......OR......unknowingly disparage corps and others, wierwille was a narcissist to the core. In biblical terms, wierwille was a false teacher, a deceiver. In modern terms, wierwille was a narcissist.

GreaseSpot Café is a place that should never close. People are still ESCAPING the twit-cult and its splinter groups. So many of the next generation were raised in this cult........this closed-society, "North Korean Cheerleading Squad"..... that they've never seen life outside its boundaries. They are victims.......and desperately need help. Melody Ann's letter is a vivid example of the struggle to break free from cult indoctrination...... Year after year........cult indoctrination is bondage. Seeing things that were not right......yet, still obeyed. More policies came out.......to keep the manipulation going. Policies changed..........so far off-track you can't find the highway. Top leaders were corrupt with own agenda.......light bulb clicks on. Double standards at hq........hypocrisy is thy name. Follow debt-doctrine or be purged from leadership role......control. Who does that make sense to?.........QUESTION EVERYTHING. I was indoctrinated with this.........yes, you were. I apologize to those I may have hurt........stepping forward. I finally saw the light........come to GSC and REALLY see the light of this insidious indoctrination.

My answer: None of the above I wanted to see if this class could/would teach me the in-depth truths of the Bible. I was in college at the time.......taking marketing/management classes. Away from home and in life's transitions, I was searching......

Mrs. Wierwille's book, page 233....... ......"When we rented our South Washington Street home in Van Wert, we didn't know how temporary this location would be, as we were very focused on getting the ministry up and running, self-supporting, and growing. Now it was becoming very apparent to us that a larger and more permanent headquarters for The Way needed to be established. So the representatives of the Board of Directors from the various branches looked around their areas for potential headquarters sites. Some of these people were eager to have the headquarters established in the localities where they lived, such as in Troy, Ohio. Fort Myers, Florida, and Chicago, Illinois. In one case where a property was found, the board of Trustees thought the site didn't have enough acreage so they decided not to pursue the location any further. But some of the members of the Board of Directors became so upset with this decision that they left the ministry. Dr. Wierwille stated that we must have lost thirty people because they thought he was totally wrong in his decision to reject that site. And the loss of thirty followers was a major blow to us in those transitional years." ** The Troy area was where wierwille had run advanced classes.......30 (or more) committed, advanced class grads rejected the direction to put headquarters at the family farm. They didn't trust victor and harry to keep monies separate from "the business of the farm." .....page 234, "Since the November 16, 1958, meeting, believers had again worked on plans for starting The Way Biblical Seminary. One proposed location for the seminary was the Wierwille farm. The solicitation of funds to begin work on the seminary found resistance at a meeting of the Miami Valley Group. The Way branch in Troy, Ohio, said that they wanted the farm of The Way in New Knoxville to be kept separate from the spiritual arm of the ministry. They wanted to be sure that their money was going to help spread the work of the ministry and not to help pay off the mortgage at the farm or for the business of the farm. They wanted a seminary to be started, but at a location other than the Wierwille farm." ~~~~~~~~~~~ From 1958-1966.........wierwille travels around the eastern part of USA to teach this foundational class. From the context of Mrs. W's writings, many of these classes were instigated by relatives and denominational laymen who wanted to delve into the scriptures with congregants. More often than not, after this class......most were non-committal to wierwille's ministry in the least. The number of committed followers who arose from those nine years was anemic. Wierwille's personal involvement was NOT working. Think about that.........averaging 10 classes per year for 9 years = 90 classes (and many classes had 20-30 students).........and still, twi was limping along. Even though wierwille boasts about people like Dr. Higgins and Rosalund Rinker........they never stayed with twi. What to do? What to do?.............well, set up a system with less direct involvement from wierwille, right? So, why not coerce people into taking a film class.....where they're subjected to 33-hrs of persuasion.....er, teaching with no questions allowed. Add some bluster and pre-emptive strikes in these stories to keep them focused on their inabilities to believe God's promises.....while never delivering evidence of his own. So, obviously.......after 9 years of road-traveling to teach this class, it needed a new approach: Film the class.......get class on film, then find committed instructors to run class and report back Target the youth........by 1967, time to ditch the concept of reaching church ministers Find a nucleus of fire-brands to assist.......needed Donnie Fugits to reach youth Build a Seminary program.......i.e. corps training program was on the horizon .

Wierwille thumped his chest and told his stories of "believing" (real or fiction)........in pfal. And, he set up a corps program........culminating in a LEAD-experiment of "believing" entailing hitch-hiking and rock climbing. Corps were subjected to hiking with heavy backpacks, climbing, rappelling, etc. and hitch-hiking back to campus in a certain allotted time period. Upon completion, LEAD staff wrote up a report on each corps person.......then sent it to Corps Coordinators and the Corps Director's office. This report was summarily placed into that person's corps file. ~~~~~~~~~ But in terms of self-referencing greatness.........."Legendary Rock Climber" Alex Honnold has no equals. And, even he is very hesitant to self-reference his abilities. Some of the "greats" of all time.........let their actions speak for themselves. Check out video at 11:10 mark.........

The nine gifts/manifestations are listed in the bible.......not in twi's doctrines or listed like "The 16 keys to walking by the spirit." Therefore, it seems to me.......this is better suited for the doctrinal forum, not About the Way forum, because those nine manifestations are not exclusive to twi's teachings but fall into a broader sense of the whole of Christianity. Of course, wierwille/twi had their stated version of these and their application within twi.......but Christian groups, far and wide, have a stake in this doctrinal issue as well. But hey.......kinda like splitting hairs on this one. No biggie.

Self-Referential Greatness...............wierwille's stories in pfal. Wierwille threads "his" pfal class with stories of believing............were these stories real or fiction? When wierwille moved his family and upstart minus-try from Van Wert back to the wierwille farmstead in February 1962........he ran up against the New Knoxville/St. Mary's townspeople who KNEW his past. Also, at about that time in 1962.........there was an exodus of the Troy and Xenia believers who were concerned that vic and harry were mingling ministry finances with personal/business finances. And........in Mrs. W's book, there is documentation of pfal classes from 1958-1961. Besides the exodus in the Troy area.........people just keep drifting away. Wierwille's approach to teaching these classes in city after city, with the help of Mal George on occasion, was yielding no long-term benefit......no committed fruit. What happened in those years 1962-1966......presumably, would have been the same, no? THEREFORE..........by 1967, wierwille KNOWS and NEEDS to change his strategy: 1) Film the class, 2) Target the youth, 3) Find a nucleus of fire-brands (ie-Donnie Fugits) to assist, and 4) Build a corps training program. He filled his foundational class with pre-emptive strikes. The subtle thread which runs throughout pfal

Mike........TAKE YOUR QUESTION and start your own thread. Thanks.

Yeah, Twinky..........you've opened two threads, giving him "a platform" to voice his thesis and subsequent viewpoints. Yet, he dodges and weaves........and keeps coming to other threads to strut all over the chessboard. Why is that? Please Mike.......stay on thread message or stay off this thread. Thanks.

The reason I highlighted "the big SIX manifestations".......because that is what is supposed to be where the ACTION and POWER come into evidence. And, it's one thing to be self-referencing greatness, but quite another to back it up. Yes, I have many times posted that wierwille's speaking in tongues was ridiculously repetitive......and highly suspect. In twi.........at the end of session 12.......anyone could "do it" or fake it. But just because wierwille taught this in his fraudulent wheelhouse.......doesn't negate those nine manifestations and their authenticity. Of course......that's where the doctrinal forum comes into play, right? .

Pre-emptive strikes in pfal...............coined by DWBH. Giving credit where credit is due.......Buried in a deep discussion, DWBH made reference that wierwille, in pfal, pre-emptively mitigated accusations from his past. And......hoping that DWBH finds the time to write a book. The subtle thread which runs throughout pfal

Correct. Self-referencing can be and is a solid, valid point........IF you can "walk the talk."

Wierwille closes the 12th Session of pfal ......... just write "The Teacher." His self-referential title was a red flag..........he proclaimed to be THE ONE who could/would do the teaching as well as THE ONE to answer all questions. This self-claimed authority should have alerted us. And, when we received his books during pfal..........did we take the time to check any bibliographies? What were his sources? Did the book reference credible sources or were his sources self-referential? Who was this Victor Paul Wierwille? Where did he learn language/research skills? Where did he get his doctorate? Looking back, I see how he framed his persona in a self-referential cloak........similar to one like L. Ron Hubbard. While wierwille framed his allure with "keys to biblical research" and classes structured for spiritual enlightenment.......L. Ron Hubbard is best known for his science fiction and fantasy stories and a tiered-system called Dianetics. Wierwille had his stories too, but they were designed to illustrate "believing"......or believing in reverse, fear. Were these stories real, or fiction? As students, we were subjected to this meandering journey of cherry-picked verses from hither and yon, new testament to old testament.....back and forth we went. Some things were eternal truths and some were subjected to the dispensation that you were in. But the grand finale of it all......was to stand up and utter in an unknown language. But the question that continued to surface in my mind, year after year.........Why have I never seen wierwille operate any of 'the big six manifestations?' And, that year at the rock of ages when wierwille led a "healing service" .........why did he summon all the advanced class grads and corps to come forward to minister healing while he stood on stage and DID NOTHING? Put up or shut up, wierwille. Actions speak louder than words. I'd rather see WHAT YOU DO, than what you say. Shrouded in mystique, wierwille subtly built walls of defense to separate himself from scrutiny. He surrounded his "self-referential greatness" with enablers, bodyguards and sycophants as they hailed his arrival with jubilant applause. But as the circus left town..........all that was left from this event was elephant dung.

Wierwille was The Teacher................because he said he was. TWI is the true household of God......because they say it is. Elena Whiteside wrote The Way: Living in Love.......because she said they were. Mrs. Wierwille wrote Born Again to Serve............... because she said he was. What we have here is.....Self-Referential Greatness. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ EVERYTHING we ever learned from wierwille or twi was self-referential? EVERYTHING........was spoon-fed to us via in-house messaging... EVERYTHING........was tweaked and skewed to place wierwille as "the teacher" EVERYTHING........fake doctorate, plagiarized books, stolen class, no research skills Circular logic: The Way Ministry is great, because they say it's great. No matter how many people exit..........twi still "has the word that no one else has." No matter how many people exit..........twi is still "the faithful remnant," because they say it is. No matter how many people expose their fraud..........they still label the dissenters "possessed." Self-Referential Greatness: Never admit faults, failures, fissures or fraud.

Exactly, waysider.........those of us who sat in the pfal class 20 times or more, can probably summon wierwille's voice inflections when he stated this. This was a faux pas..............a remark or blunder in a public setting. Wierwille BLUNDERED right out of the gate in this pfal class. It was sitting there like a pile of steaming cow-schit on a flat rock.......within the first 5 minutes of his class. Wierwille equates the more abundant life......with material possessions. He looked around and saw unbelievers with more stuff, better stuff.........and thus, unbelievers were living "more abundantly" than believers OMG........the continuity of his premise (JC bringing "a more abundant life") stumbled right out of the gate!! The FIRST verse in this class......and wierwille screws up. He admits, without grasping his error, what HE deemed "more abundant" ---i.e material things. Which begs the question.............where was that "in-depth spiritual perception and awareness" (cough, cough) DERIVED FROM that wierwille claimed? .

Bump...... To add to current discussion....