skyrider

Thousands of cult followers AND "ex-cultists" STILL smoking...........

Remember that cigarette commercial............"You can take Salem out of the country but, you can't take the country out of Salem." While in college, I was studying Business Management and Marketing......and we delved into marketing techniques. How they work. What constitutes a snazzy slogan. What type of technique leaves a subliminal message that lingers. And, the "Salem commercial" was worth studying, because it encompassed all of those...........especially when the commercial ends by "You can take Salem out of the country but [Ding]...........and your mind sings, and fills in, the rest of the song diddy. THAT is what I think about the cult's pseudo-Christianity. You can keep smoking those twit-teachings, but you can't take wierwille out of those teachings!! You can leave the cult, but if you continue smoking those "rightly-divided" teachings.......you can't take wierwille out of the brand. For some 30 years, corps leadership have been leaving the cult-mothership ........yet, they STILL market the wierwille-mystique. They cannot separate Christianity from the "Wierwille-Cult Christianity"..... it's just not possible, in their minds. Wierwille is their mediator between God and man. He ushered them into the Age of Grace. It's his teachings that open the doors to understand "the word as it has not been known since the first century." He is the modern-day Apostle Paul. He is the one who found the keys to the "more abundant life." To them, wierwille is to be placed on a pedestal that is revered. Move over Jesus Christ.....there's a new man of God in town. The manifestations are a non-sequester, it seems. No one really takes them serious anymore. What a stark difference from the early-70s......when walking in power was the deal-breaker of being sincere or being genuine!! On one level......it seems, that they are simply marketing this message for ROI (return on investment). They've spend over 4 decades in promoting pfal......and now, after distancing themselves from the machinery want to call the shots and count the money. The R&R group is the latest in this endeavor. Gawd, it is so nauseating to see their pathetic pandering to the wierwille-adulation when GreaseSpot Café has been documenting this stuff for nearly 18 years. Yet, on another level..........maybe, these guys truly believe that wierwille had it going on........right doctrine, right practice, right on before God Almighty. Could it be that these guys are SO INDOCTRINATED and INSTITUTIONALIZED that they've lost all grasp of critical thinking? Just seems to me that I Timothy 3 would be enough to show gaping discrepancies of wierwille's manner of life as opposed to the Scriptures. Or, pointing out the putrid fruit of sexual predation, lock box doctrine, absent-Christ, etc........to name a few. All in all, I think it's about..... Saving Face Being Unrepentant Establishing a lane to run in during retirement Desiring to be the lead dog ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The splinter groups will continue to market the wierwille mystique and his legacy..........to bring notoriety to their doorstep and money to their coffers. Wierwille was a showman and a storyteller. He trafficked in deception and exploiting others thru the subtle power of spiritual abuse. He traveled up and down the highways searching for the new shtick that would arrest the public's curiosity and attention.......wherein, he could run full-throttle with his narcissism. From retreats to seminars to camps farthest out, wierwille was intently looking for a pyramid of his own making. The youth had the time, and zeal, to make things happen. And, when the youth leaders [Way West / Way East] surged forward with throngs of people, wierwille walked into those meetings and power-grabbed their movements for himself. The revisionist history that accompanied his "God-ordained greatness" was a slick ploy to build this mystique of "the man of God." Yet, in reality.......Wierwille's legacy is one of stealing, exploiting, and destroying others for his own opportunity. Splinter groups need to keep the wierwille-mystique in place........thus, they will not abandon him, nor will they come to GSC and step into the area of open discussions on the matter. Mystique only plays well in shades of grey.......not in open sunlight.

Totally incongruous, the one with the other. Those who are recovering from what vpw/lcm did Those who are self-appointing themselves as leaders over another splinter group Admittedly, you claim that there are people recovering from what vpw or lcm did to them. Don't Moneyhands, Forts, Horneys, Sheldons, and others fall into that category? Moneyhands has been a part of the twit-cult since 1969......and the Forts, since like 1972. Wouldn't they need to have some "recover time" to figure things out? Instead, they are jumping head-long into the water and "teaching the word to others" ........albeit, skewed doctrine. Apples and oranges, Taxidev. One is not the same as the other. Even though I held many leadership positions [State, Country Coordinator and clergy]........I haven't started any splinter group. LOL. These guys are opportunists and I have been generous in my assessment. There is plenty more that I could say about them. You obviously have "a dog in this fight"........and come to their defense time and again. You claim to have this absolute integrity for the Word, yet you fail to see the wolves in sheep's clothing, the deceivers, and the prideful. You might want to read those scriptures that tell us to eschew every appearance of evil. These guys were the campus leaders when wierwille/martindale parked their motor coaches out back [or used cabin 12 in Camp Gunnison] and had girls escorted to them late at night. Yet, they still give adulation to wierwille !!! And now, they start their own splinter group............the blind leading the blind and falling in the ditch. ;

Yeah, a year already................how much time is enough time? Don't the scriptures give us indications of 40 days [trial and testing]?.......or 3 months after the Road to Damascus [for Paul]? Sorry, but.......one year is plenty of time........AFTER WHICH, sources say they'd been contemplating leaving the twit-cult for 4 years. Sheesh. I think the whole thing smells to high heaven and the Lord is having NONE OF IT.

With sleight of hand, wierwille instituted buzzwords, clichés and phrases that fueled the engine of the cult machinery. The splinter groups will NEVER get it right, because they start with the premise that wierwille's "foundation" was solid........and therefore, keep the foundation that wierwille devised. Yet, it was built on cult-sand........and will never stand in the presence of God. Imo, the whole cult experience was skewed and twisted. When you read the gospels and how Jesus loved and comforted, you see The Great Shepherd of the sheep. He cared for them, and their burdens and wounds....and fought off the wolves. Others are hirelings.....only looking out for themselves and self-opportunities. Could someone show me where, in the gospels, Jesus instructed us to go "move the word?" Sure, preach the word unto all the nations.......but "move the word?" And, we all know the implication from wierwille's cult was..........to run pfal classes. And, it's going to be very interesting to see how these EX-corps coordinators proceed forward. They were the drill sergeants of the way corps program. If corps were not obedient, these leaders who go ballistic yelling in a nanosecond. With these three corps coordinator couples in this offshoot......it's like having 6 John Lynns in one room!

This R & R Railroad splinter group might become the most micromanaged, controlled group.......to come down the tracks. Time will tell. After all, Moneyhands, Forts, and Horneys took their marching orders from the corps director, martindale, and ran the corps thru the paces of an indoctrination program. What all did the Moneyhands see and allow to happen at the Indiana Campus? When wierwille came on campus......how many girls were escorted to wierwille's motor coach late at night? Or, the Forts at Emporia Campus? And, don't tell me that the Horneys stopped the pimping of girls to Cabin 12 when martindale came for his visits? So............these guys "ran with the wolves" who ravaged the flock. They not only turned a blind eye to the destruction of others........they followed orders to give the bum's rush knowing that lies and character assassination abounded. These guys were NOT watchmen over the Lord's heritage........ .........how could they be watchmen over the Word of God? Seems that their premise is to start another splinter group absent the micromanagement, policies and controlling factors of The Way. Yeah, riiiight. Well then, they are either clueless as to the depth of issues that should be addressed........or, they do NOT want to tarnish the wierwille brand by addressing the compounding doctrinal issues. By their non-admission of all these errors and evil............THEY ARE ALREADY CONTROLLERS AND CONTROLLING THE MESSAGE. The doctrinal issues in wierwille's ministry brought about its demise, as well. The Absent Christ......that's one of the cult's biggest foundational errors. Law of Believing........if it all works for saint and sinner alike, why do I need a savior? 7 Dispensations.......fundamentally flawed and sidestepping JC at every juncture. Adultery & Sexual Predation........why did NONE of the corps coordinators confront this?!! Cloning Corps...........the corps program was jaded from its inception. Etc. etc............

Hey, Taxidev..........if that is what floats your boat, then go for it. Me? ........it has hypocrisy and sleaze written all over it. Imo, there is NO WAY these guys can step away from mother-cult international, and run their own mini-cult, praise-be-to-wierwille national with nothing other than smug hypocrisy. They simply are just late to the splinter party........following in the likes of geer, lynn, carr, finne-gang, seed, burton, wrenn, shroyer, clap-on, panarello, etc. etc. As far as I know, all those groups tell "their people" to stay off Greasespot........who needs those pesky questions and personal experiences exposed for all to see? Yet, you consistently come here and express your opinion in how "great" this new splinter is. Fact is......it belies decades of splinter-history. The red flags are flying and have been for decades. All those clichés, buzzwords, and tweaked teachings were red-light, cult-like seductions that have been exposed here at The Spot six ways to Sunday. I will never walk thru another door that has a twi-offshoot waiting to "teach me da word."

Moynihan was WRONG in his "counsel" of the mark/avoid brother attending his sister's funeral. .........hard-hearted to the person, lockstep loyalty to the twit-cult. Moynihan could LEARN FROM US HERE AT GREASESPOT..............not having us learn from him. Sheesh.

Yeah, at first.........it seems marginally better than the Way. But really..........the "start-up sweetness" wears off and it just becomes same old, same old. Many who went to CES for years, don't anymore. Many who went to CFF for years, don't anymore. And, for me...........since I had bad (bossy) experiences with Moynihan, and with Fort.......I would have no interest in following their lead. I mean, what's to follow? Those guys were indoctrinated into the cult for nearly 50 years......and then, think they can just pick up where they left off and "lead others." LOL

So, in other words...........you go, you sit, they teach and then, you leave. Is there anything else besides them teaching? Any group-research sessions? Any Q&A out-in-the-open feedback.....without condescension/blacklisted? Have they instigated the mark/avoid policy yet? Any children activities or teen events? How about community involvement of any kind? If I give them my hard-earned money, where does it go? Seems to me.......that the mother-cult became so lethargic that "teaching" was the gold-standard for "living/doing the word." I don't know.........but this phone hook-up stuff seems so pathetic and generic and impersonal.

Peggy was special.......always going the extra mile to help others in her twig fellowship. She was a doer and a giver.....not someone who lorded over others and browbeat them with cherry-picked scriptures. She had integrity of heart in everything she set out to do. When she met Tim, they courted for about a year as their relationship blossomed. Two people, two lives.....could this be love? And, when they broached the subject of marriage, they came to me for my thoughts and counsel. Marriage is NOT a "ministry thing"........Marriage is a GOD thing: "two shall be one." I was honored to perform their wedding. Life, living, loving, laughter, ..........the memories of Peggy will live with me for the rest of my life. So.......it sure as hell irked me when Craig Martindale took her death as an opportunity at a headquarter's lunch meal to give a 30-minute spiel about taking care of your health. The message was clear: "that the ministry be not blamed" when/if you die prematurely. More along the lines of bullying the people to obey. Where were the kind, loving words to honor Peggy's life? Martindale wasn't thinking along those lines. He was running roughshod over people.....just like wierwille did. Peggy was special........RIP. .

Abso....damn....lutely !!

Yeah, Rocky.......ole wierwille would have never lived three more decades, but I was jousting the R&R guy on his hypocritical wierwille-adulation. Keeping on the railroad tracks of wierwille............Moynihans, Forts, Horneys, and others want to keep the locomotive churning down those tracks. They can't abandon wierwille or else they lose the indoctrinated-followers that are institutionalized to the cult lifestyle and nostalgia. Warts, sexual predator and all.......they can't stop riding on his coattails. Else, they'd have to look in the mirror and SEE WHAT UTTER FAILURES THEY'VE BECOME. It's just easier to keep living the dream......façade. And, starting a non-profit organization.......gives them a lane to run in during "retirement."

They think.......they are entitled. They deem......"to serve the Word" while others serve tables. They are..........unrepentant of their sins and destruction of others. They will..........bear the same fruit of the mother-cult tree.

Hey, Moynihan............... If wierwille had lived longer........maybe we would have seen him led away in handcuffs (like Harvey Weinstein).

Exactly. Everything this new splinter group [ R&R ] is doing..........is THE SAME THING all the others have done. Need to "get back to the Word that wierwille taught us".................(ugh). SAME centralization of power and leverage over the peons. SAME teachings from plagiarized sources and claiming elite status. SAME arrogance and smugness over others. SAME dog-n-pony manifestations.......counterfeit silliness. Are people that gullible to STILL fall for another offshoot?

Peggy, a dear friend and fellowship coordinator in Stillwater, OK for Rod and Jo Mart!ndale, passed away suddenly of heart complications in early September of 1997. At the time, I was the limb coordinator of Oklahoma and was jolted by this news. Death, and the sting of it, is most always inconvenient and ushers in a plethora of rapid decisions. On one level.......there was the ministry side of things. Peggy had specifically come to Oklahoma in 1994 from Wisconsin at the request of her region coordinator. She was told that her loving support and abilities were needed in Stillwater to help the Martindales. That was Peggy......the heart of serving others. But on another level.......there was her family, her brother. Peggy's parents were both deceased, but there was a brother in Florida. Problem was: according to twi, this brother was blacklisted with that dastardly label.......mark and avoid. So, since Peggy had been the twig coordinator for Rod and Jo, it didn't take but a few hours for this news to reach Craig Martindale. And then, subsequently.....the brother in Florida phones Bob Moynihan about this funeral. Whereupon Bob, the Florida Limb guy calls me and informs me that this brother SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to attend his sister's funeral. Well, I disagreed. Here And, now.............some 20 years later, I'm sure damn glad he did. I would NOT want it laid "at my doorstep" that I would not permit a bereaved brother to attend his sister's funeral. In my mind, it gave him great comfort and healing to be there for her, his sister. RIP, Peggy. And, Bob..............now, some 20 years later, YOU are mark and avoid. Thankful, that I didn't heed your "counsel" back then. What's up with that pathetic command, Bob? You guys and your "lockstep loyalty" to serve wierwille/twi? You might want to RE-think that and lots of other things.

Thanks Penworks........ Just so you know, I've gone back and re-read most of your book. So much detail. Thanks. I know that I repeat myself......but, for me, it was NOT the class that kept me involved all those years. Nor was it wierwille. It was *the youth factor*........hundreds of young men and women who were high on life and living. NOT just the way corps either. Hundreds of advanced class grads were right there with us, in the thick of things, giving diligence to serve the Lord. In looking at Jim Doop's last post.......it is poignant it that *The Way West* did NOT need wierwille to thrive. The Way West was dynamic with the spiritual leadership and direction of Jim Doop!!! Wierwille was a shyster, an opportunist.......who stole and co-opted his way thru life. And that R&R Railroad.......Moynihans, Forts, Horneys, etc. are about three decades behind in figuring it out. They probably never will. Either dumbdang wierwille-idolatry or two-fold the opportunists and evil workers of the mother cult.

But then............so did wierwille. He lacked academic credentials AND his "putting it all together" had lots of holes in it. It is a lot easier to fool a 19 year old........than a 36 year old. By then, many of us had serious doubts about wierwille's spiel.....and, even if we stuck around, it had more to do with relationships, indoctrination and habit patterns than *believing* that wierwille was incredibly gifted. Gawd, I had doubts about wierwille's shtick when I was in-residence corps in 1978.

Rosalie, Donna, Marcia..............girls night out !! .....And, for the next two weeks!! Flying to Aruba......and spending some of that cult money, woohoo !!

OMG........ This reminds me when, as in-residence twigs, we were each scheduled to attend Aunt Lydia's in New Knoxville.........to learn of "Dr. Wierwille's upbringing." Gawd, were we indoctrinated or what? LOL

Thanks DWBH.......for connecting the dots on this one. Looks like "deep waters" of certain relationships have been flowing thru North Carolina, and now New Knoxville, for some 45 years. But then, none of this is really surprising anymore..... is it? Nothing in twi is, or was, what it seems. Secrets abound. Everything has a back-story, or undercurrent. Special cliques run the operation......others are pawns. A cult society soaked in a seductive cesspool.

The Way International Cult continues to devolve into an inner circle of favoritism. Last year, when DeLisle was "presented" as twi's next president.......and then, months later Bill Greene was added to the board of directors.......it raised plenty of questions to those of us who know that what they publically say is NOT the same as what is really going on. Why was Bill Greene ADDED to the board? Rosalie "stepped down" as president, but she is still in command. She is cunningly conniving behind the scenes to wield power to her advantage. DeLisle and Rupp are door stops. They are only there to hold the door open for others coming thru...............namely, donna and marcia faulk greene. #girlsrule The girls of North Carolina lore are reunited. The girls club is coming to power. Bye-bye, delisle and rupp......you two are being played. lol