skyrider

Isn't scumbag a first cousin to numb-nuts? :P-->

Isn't hose-bag slang for hoser? :D--> skyrider

To even voice such an accusation as "stealing people" speaks volumes of twi's top echelon. And, to say it in public gives way to a mindset...and an agenda. People are treated like property, like slaves. If it quacks like a cult...... skyrider

On another thread, a former corps guy stated that twi's BOD is accusing former leaders and offshoot ministries of "stealing people" from them (twi). Excuse me? Does twi OWN THE RIGHTS to these people? Does twi HAVE SOLE OWNERSHIP of these peoples' choices? Does twi THINK AND SPEAK for these people? How arrogant! Sounds like lcm ramblings back in 1989-91 when he accused Geerr and others of stealing from twi's fold. Sheeesh. Ole vic, in piffle, talked about "my people" as if they were HIS students, HIS congregants, HIS faithful. Looks like his legacy lives on. :D--> And one more thing........if twi is so frickking PREVAILING, then why can't they go out and "prevail" with new attendees?? skyrider

In other words.....vpw couldn't stand having others around who might overpower his decisions. So, he got his brother and found a lumberyard man/carpenter from Kentucky and rubber-stamped his own yes men!!! And some wonder why vpw's organization never succeeded into the next generation? :D--> :D--> :D--> skyrider

In the scheme of things........vpw set up twi on a weak foundation that had no accountability. Ole vp came out of the church setup and didn't want any Board telling him how to run things....thus, twi's bot birthright was conceived. --> No accountability over the money spent. No setup for handling grievances or injustices or sexual harrassment. No elders at the gate who would hear BOTH SIDES of the argument. Heck, even in the OT these provisions were stated. Isn't it something that ole vp could be SO WISE on the indepth truths of scripture and SO FOOLISH on the practicality of everyday living. :P--> :P--> Maybe that's why some call him slick vic. :D--> And, if the founder is off-kilter.....the organization doesn't have a chance. skyrider

I exited twi many years ago.....and have been distancing myself from them ever since. :D--> But......in the rare moment that one of those lines (twisted to mirror twi's self-interests) enters my mind, I uproot it like a dandelion. And, for me.....I remind myself that twi's indoctrination STARTED in pfal. Remember....just write The Teacher. What a crock of arrogance!!! What a sleight of hand trick used by vpw. So many of those one-liners were TWEAKED ever-so-slightly to give a jaded message. Having encountered MANY wholesome Christian bible study groups in the past few years, I more clearly see how they contrast with twi's distortion of truth. I chucked ALL my corps notes in the trash many years ago........and have been LIVING FINE without them. :D--> :P--> :D--> skyrider

While we're on the subject of this basement living......what WAS the reason given for these two "reformed" lesbians living in Rosalie's house? Does anyone remember? Or was it one of those things where it was "none of your business" situations? Knowing how Rosalie guarded her privacy at all costs, it always struck me as strange that she opened up her house at about the same time that lcm went on his homo purge. I seriously doubt that rosalie needed rent money to defray her costs. skyrider

Catcup, You are so right! Well, they may never publicly acknowledge it......but I think that there are times when howard and rosie and donna and others hang their heads in shame. Not for long, mind you....just at certain "weak" moments. But to forfeit one's righteous living and spiritual integrity for a pittance of twi perks is folly. God's justice will prevail. skyrider

Rosalie and Donna are more comfortable with..... "Go, Shop and Spend" at all the stores in this life. skyrider

Not only were these screaming meetings unnecessary.....in MANY cases, martindale was vehemently ousting someone TO COVER HIS OWN foot. Years later, I heard several accounts of the other side of the story. Martindale's sexcapades in gunnison were about to be exposed ---- thus he went into action and ousted some leaders. Or, several know about his 1998 Adv Class sexual assault on a corps guy's wife..... and some get mark/avoid. Martindale LABELED people as possessed to cover his own foot. Once labeled, all avenues of warning other followers was shut off. Once labeled, martindale could have his way. Since lcm "taught" twi followers his class "defeating the adversary" and the full disecting of major groups in the adv class, most complied with ANYTHING martindale said on the subject of devil spirits. He ran rough-shod over anyone and everyone. After all, he was "the authority" on how devil spirits operated!!! And he should know! He is known by many as.......DANCES WITH DEVIL SPIRITS (in tights) :D--> skyrider

Kevlar2000, I agree with you. :)--> It should have been a massive red flag warning to NOT see lots of successful, satisfied grads standing alongside vpw. Only a handful...... and most were on the payroll. Now, in the ranks of twi ...........there are scores of OLD, satisfied grads at hq. Are they successful? Doubt it. Are they on twi's payroll? Youbetcha. :D--> Should send up another MASSIVE RED FLAG WARNING, shouldn't it? skyrider

Most significantly, since 1990....... I must have sat thru 30 corps meetings where LCM named specific daimon devil spirits that inhabited some corps leader who left or was "ousted" by martindale himself. The corps coordinator at gunnison was "a highlighted example" of martindale's scathing remarks. Another man, a project manager overseeing the corps chalet addition, was another that fell prey to lcm's character (and devil spirit) assassination on a corps hook-up. Many other vivid slanderings come to mind...... all rubber-stamped by martindale's spiritual perception and awareness. He was judge, jury and media reporter all wrapped in one. He had the final say...... and to try and hear the other side of what happened, was NOT an option (unless one wanted a quick, confrontational exit from twi). BUT NOW THAT MARTINDALE HAS BEEN STRIPPED OF HIS CORPS AND CLERGY STATUS AND OUSTED FROM TWI STAFF...... does the current bod label him devil-possessed? The 2nd president of twi goes down in flames in a landscape of adultery and doctrinal perverseness and divisiveness and what happens?????? The bod remains cold, deathly silent --- for 4 storm-tossed years! Why? Could it be that they are trying to hold back an avalanche of lawsuits against twi? Could it be that twi's bod KNOW the scores of victims of martindale's predatory ways? Could it be that rosie and donna and linder and others KNOW the legion of lies that have been told to prop up martindale as some "great one" so that followers keep sending in their "indulgences" at the level of 15%, at least? Silence is "golden"............ but my eyes still see. :D--> skyrider

And, when some of us youngsters came to twi..... there were very FEW old people in the ranks. With young and crazy and wild exuberance everywhere, we had the zeal to see the power of God in action. Nowadays, there are just too many "know-it-alls" (50 year olds) and very little youth. Too much bureacracy, too much legalism. Twi is dying of old age. :D--> skyrider

So, with all these lawsuits...... has the DAMAGE CONTROL DEPARTMENT moved next to the Trunk Dept? Or, do they just daily meet in the conference room next to harve's office? skyrider

ex10, Seems like this group of pfal waybrainers refuse to acknowledge the truth in Acts 17:11 .. "...they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." But then again...it's not all that uncommon for pfal waybrainers to disregard the scriptures for a pittance of pitiful platitudes. --> skyrider

igotout, Thanks for posting these links. Those who are EXITING twi need this type of confirmation. It just puts more exclamation marks behind their reasons for leaving. Yep......I know families who, in the past month, escaped from wayworld. skyrider

igotout, check private topics. thanks for posting your insight. skyrider

A la prochaine, Point well taken. Or, if I could have posted it on the 'Just Plain Duped' forum. ;)--> skyrider

Recently, I heard that one corps couple (no kids) accepted their new corps assignment as hq staff. Another couple, corps alumni status, went to camp gunnison to be on the skeleton crew to work a number of jobs. What were they thinking? These individuals are 49 - 54 years of age (approximately). Surely, they must realize that this "career path" is a dead end! Surely, they must have heard about the number of lawsuits, past and present? Surely, they must realize that meager paychecks will do very little to aid their fast-approaching "retirement years?" And surely, they never heard or grasped the treatment that mrs. wierwille received at the hands of twi's bod? Imagine.....thinking that being on twi's staff is a prized possession! Imagine.....being in your early 50s and selling your house (one couple had a house), unloading your furniture, discarding your profession/job, uprooting again, and join the staff/cult lifestyle. Don't these people realize that when vpw made staff promises to rhoda, howard, emogene and others that it was A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES? To realize that some staff are leaving should be the first clue that it might not be a good idea to jump aboard a sinking ship!?! skyrider

I don't know how many are needed. But.....someone told someone who told someone who told me that Tony and Ruth Cleaver just went there to be on staff. Weren't they in the 6th corps at one time? skyrider

Catcup, I clearly remember that! Also, I remember sitting in a meeting where vpw expounded his "grand scale projection" for Camp Gunnison. He visualized having land across the river as well and some fancy restaurant up there where the water tower stood. Even at the time, I muttered under my breath.....that will never happen. :)--> Besides, who wants to vacation in a place that's micromanaged to death? skyrider

In the past three years, I've crossed paths with MANY twi followers in the coffeeshops and supermarkets of the city. Some of them will visit with me for a couple of minutes, some won't. Several of the gung-ho corps that I've encountered, are NO LONGER corps. Some of the twig coordinators NO LONGER run a fellowship in their home. A couple of long-standing advanced class grads told me that they RARILY WITNESS anymore. And to think.....this is a sampling of twi's followers that have crossed my path. Are you guys seeing this? I even crossed paths with an ex-corps guy who stated, "We stay out of their (bod) shix and they don't get involved in our shix." There seems to be a huge DISCONNECT on the rise with twi's "followers." Maybe.......that's why twi's faithful rarily witness anymore??? skyrider

Good question.......one that surfaces every year or so. :)--> For years now, the number of inresidence corps has been pitifully low and begs the question....why keep the Gunnison property? Gee, couldn't they just bring the corps to hq and train them in the BRC or whatever? For that matter, they could even use the BRC basement for meals and keep the corps separate from staff activities (for the most part). Speculating.....what REASONS would the bod have for hanging onto the Gunnison location? 1) For investment purposes.....knowing that the price will continue to increase as long as corps labor there to keep maintaining the buildings, grounds, etc? 2) For a hunting lodge......knowing that howard and others like to hunt elk and deer (or act like they do)? 3) For a bod get-away.......to travel there and be waited on hand and foot? 4) For deception purposes....so that twi gives the impression that they are bigger than they really are? 5) For sex and adultery......knowing that (allegedly) much happened "under the sheets" when the mogfot came to visit? Surely, the bod have their reasons. After all, the "great planner" rozilla doesn't do anything without a plan in place. :D--> :D--> skyrider

UH, Yeah, as long as the money flows one way -- "downhill" to twi's belly, the organization will continue to gorge on "its fruit." From what I understand, besides its investments the biggest moneymaker for twi is the abundant sharing. Heck, they don't put any field person on salary unless there are about 100 grads throwing money into the horn each week. And, MANY states have fallen below this level and now have NO FULLTIME CORPS in their state at all. Its a numbers game. Twi has crunched these numbers for years and know the game all to well. If the hq staffers' paychecks stopped today, those security guys would be boarding up the buildings as their final assignment for twi. skyrider