skyrider

Radar......I couldn't agree more. :)--> Thanks for posting. skyrider

Wayfer Not, thanks for the additions........there are about 15 that work in printing? Amazing! Printing what??? So, add another 20 for bookstore & printing and about 20 more to food services & multi-services & grounds. Now, the staff totals around 240. My, oh my.......the numbers swell for comfy living. ;)-->

Thanks, Jim........yeah, the a/v dept So.....adding the bod's personal servants/aids (10) and a/v with tape duplicating (6) and a few "special assistants" and waygb guys and others (14)......the total of hq staff climbs to 200. Hope the innies travel to hq often......to see the manicured grounds and polished floors. :D--> Also, no longer do they have access to 40 interim corps workers at $2.50 a day ($75 a month).

Yes, George......only one in legal. Now, the 30 in way builders is an estimate....and downsized since I presume that there isn't much "building" going on. Only maintenance, painting, sewage treament, that sorta thing. Oh, I forgot........that list needs to add another 10 or so.....nannies, laundry, shopping and personal house stewards for bod. skyrider

Some 20 years ago, the hq staff numbered around 550. And, this was when the followers had ballooned upwards of 30,000 or so. Today, the number of followers in twi is estimated around 3,000 or so.... one-tenth of the 1984 level. How many hq staffers does it take to run the dwindling operation? Approximate numbers (???) Bod level: Emeritus/wives/donna......10 Trunk staff/int'l outreach...........10 Finance dept.........................06 Personnel / credit union.............04 Public Relations.....................01 Library..............................01 Way corps dept.......................04 Way disciples........................04 Computer services....................06 Printing.............................04 Legal................................01 Purchasing...........................03 Receptionists........................03 Safety...............................08 Bookstore............................10 Way Magazine.........................04 Shipping/ Receiving..................04 Warehouse............................02 Housekeeping.........................12 Way Builders.........................30 cabinet Shop.........................02 Design & Display.....................02 Food Services........................16 Housing..............................01 Grounds / Farms......................06 Multi-services.......................04 Children's Fellowship................02 Way Productions......................10 Auditorium...........................04 President's Cabinet / Dept coord.....18 Roughly......I count 170 hq staffers. Now, add gunnison and field staff.......50 (?) So, with rough estimates.....it comes to 220 staff for about 3,000 people. Incredible. :D--> Please feel free to correct my estimates. ;)--> skyrider

ex, lol..........thanks. :)--> Nothing makes a Kentuckian move faster than seeing an opening in the future for a work-free zone. :D--> skyrider

Thanks sky. Yeah.....by the late 70s, twi was changing into a corporate entity and other things were taking a back seat. With hindsight......and a 30-year perspective of looking at twi......it seems like they "sold out" to marketing classes, promoting programs, counting numbers, and twisting scriptures. In a nutshell......twi fell prey to the lusts of the flesh and is fulfilling religious agendas. And, twi will be numbered alongside the others that have come to naught. Auctioned off to the deceitful bidder........going, going and gone said he. skyrider

The message was clear. If you believe God to supply your abundance, you can learn to live on a 4-hour work day. If you were spiritual, you could work 20 hours a week and still live "abundantly." This message was taught to the wows and corps. Vpw proclaimed this......and, of course wanted all "extra time" for witnessing. :)--> Lcm claimed that.........the way corps should be able to get twice as much done in half the time as the unbeliever (and thus, a 4-hour work day). Yet, even today.......many GS posters know that lcm WORKS TWO JOBS! :D--> And, when lcm dictated for all corps to be full-time staff in 1995.......the STANDARD TWI WORK WEEK was 55 hours! Yup....preach one thing and do another. Double talk and shuffle feet was the order of the day at twi. And, they wonder why people leave??? :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> skyrider

Wasn't Larry Panxxxxxx one of the teachers at this rehashed one? And, now......even he and his wife, from the Trunk office staff, LEFT twi. :D--> skyrider

This topic of forgiveness sparks all kinds of questions..... Is it a worthy endeavor to warn others of twi's ongoing deception and anti-Christian stance? Since lcm slandered my reputation to cover his predatory sex stuff and don & howard & rosalie & donna were in cahoots with his decision, does that mean that forgiveness is warranted to all of them to unburden me? :D--> If self-proclaimed twi is so spiritual, don't they see the NEED to ask for forgiveness? Since light manifests darkness......don't topical discussions and thought-provoking questions aid all of us to dismantle the trappings of half-truths? Lots more questions......but I gotta go. skyrider

Absent from twi......that is. :)--> Most of us are aware that vpw proclaimed, "the word takes place of the absent Christ." But what about Jesus? Is he absent from twi? In the early 70s, there was an abundance of songs and praise for what Jesus, our savior, accomplished. The blue song book had numerous songs of Jesus.....and to vpw's credit, many nightowls closed with 15 minutes of tender Jesus-songs. Where did all the "Jesus songs" go?...........My Jesus, I love thee.....He's the healer of broken hearts......He touched me......Yes it is Jesus.... And, why not accredit some of the programs to Jesus or Christ. Vpw had his "word over the world ambassadors" and "way corps" programs and lcm started his "way disciple" program. Unique, yes? Yet....so corporate-thinking. :D--> So, it begs the question.......did/does twi promote the absent Jesus concept? skyrider

In the past couple of months, I've talked to a few innies. Here is what I found out.... * One couple bought a house....and are no longer fellowship coordinators. * One couple is traveling lots more....no longer corps-committed. * One keeps "believing" for things to change....and the excitement to return. * One kept emphasizing her son's educational adventures....now that he is no longer on twi's payroll. He's paving new roads to travel. * One told of a limb meeting with less than 40 people....and how things were ho-hum. These are innie observations. :D--> Their "testimonials" wouldn't convince a man dying of thirst to drink at twi's fountain of spewwwth. skyrider

In hindsight....the condescending attitude was rampant throughout twi's leadership. And, vpw was the worst of the worst. I was in a corps meeting where he threw a ....y fit for 20 minutes because some corps guy, with a low blood sugar problem, dozed off during vp's teaching. Why.....you'd have thought this guy stood up and flipped ole vpw the bird, or something?? And while we are on the subject of glory-grabbing......did ya ever notice how twi's bod courted the professionals, the athletes, the doctors and such? Seemed like twi was hot on the trail for new "pfal poster people." And......I always thought it quite ironic that after Bud Morgan's film highlighting the Stauhal family, they soon up and split out. Smart. Very smart people indeed. skyrider

Regarding individuality...... IMO it seemed like individuality within twi was replaced by groupthink, groupspeak, groupdo at about PFAL '77 time. I strongly fault vpw for this downward spiraling. One of the cornerstones in the pfal class was "Christ in you, Christ in you, Christ in you....the hope of glory." Each member in particular was unique, special, honored, valued. But wait....as the numbers grew, vpw's agenda of control grew hair!!! The corps numbers were multiplying and these folks went out and did the bidding of wierwille's plan of "word over the world." More numbers, more corps, more control.......and less individuality. Seems like vpw, and later lcm, were intoxicated with their own pride and stumbled at several major crossroads. Why couldn't these "mogs" see what many others were seeing? So much for the mog's indepth spiritual perception and awareness. At the rate twi continues to slide into groupdom........soon, a twi follower won't be able to go to the corner store without his twig walking with him. :D--> :P--> skyrider

Not wanting to derail the other thread, I brought this discussion over to this table. :)--> So......let me get this straight, lcm mandates that twi will no longer support individual performances and talent? Why? Because....what if that person splits out? So......in the teaching arm of things, lcm is the ONLY one to teach on sundays for months on end. He is spotlighted, only him. And.....he is OUSTED! He's gone. Now, what say twi? :P--> skyrider

socks, That thread is on page 2. It's entitled "The New Ex-Twi Purple Heart Goes To"........

"nearly four thousand" probably means about 3,600 or so. If I were to speculate a little....I'd guess that about 700 married couples with 2 children (average) were noted in the mandatory count. That adds up to 2,800. Another 800 singles added would bring that number up to the alleged boast. [Note: 700 married couples in 50 states = 14 couples (with kids) per state. And, 800 singles in 50 states = 16 singles per state.] Yep, pretty dismal. :D-->

And, although these numbers are more than likely exaggerated a bit, they would include 12 year olds and upward.

..."over a thousand people participated in the anniversary celebration".... So....after 62 years, with some 350 staff (??)in the seats, the auditorium was still only two-thirds full??? Doesn't sound like much to crow about? :D--> skyrider

Growing up playing sports, we used to have a word for someone who took credit for others' hard-earned accomplishments........glory-grabber. A glory-grabber was a fraud. He was a thief. He stole the spotlight, because otherwise he rarily was in it. whenever twi boasts that they "taught me the word"......... I am reminded of my youthful teammates who called a spade, a spade. Hence....a glory-grabber. It was a detestable label and one that was hard to shake. By sleight of hand, twi endeavors to interchange terms to mean something quite different. I guess it wouldn't work very well if they said, "Stand with the ministry that taught you pfal." SO.....????? Besides.....who taught me "the word?" And, why is it in the PAST TENSE? I learned truth from my church, my parents, my siblings, my friends, my classmates, my college buddies, etc. etc. I also think that I'm still LEARNING THE WORD OF TRUTH. So, twi.......you can spout your little cliches till you're blue in the face. To me, you are a "glory-grabber." And, if that isn't enough.....let's all sing, To God be the glory great things He hath done, so loved He the world that He gave us His son..... :D--> :D--> :D--> skyrider

And, it probably dawned on twi's bod that they also lost the parents' children.......the next generation. And, the generation after that....infinitum. And, to estimate the approximate value of this lost MONEY has the bod yelling and cussin' up a storm. :D--> :D--> :D--> skyrider

It's been about 30 years ago, but I don't remember that little green card stating: Makes life meaningful............but twi owns you. Increases prosperity.............but you owe it to us. Separates truth from error.......but you need to always stand with us. Establishes harmony in home......but you must be in our household. Eliminates fear..................but you shall fear if you leave us. Enables good health..............but you will die if you leave twi. Can't remember the others....... :P--> skyrider

igotout, Thank you for your post. I totally agree. I exited twi before waydale was born, and it was a little tough going at first. But now....there is SO MUCH ACCESS instantly. It has been exciting to reconnect with friends and corps buddies who left decades ago! :)--> Now, away from twi, life is so liberating! Riding the skyways of life, skyrider

'Stealing people' .........I still find that accusation to be far outside the framework of Christianity, the One Body working together with Christ as the head. Perhaps, because it is. At best, it sounds like twi's bod is approaching it like a business.....where a competitor moves in and the customers find the products there better. And, this "forces" changes in the old company policy, pricing, and service. And we all know how twi hates CHANGE. The encrusted policies of the first two mogs are hard to shake.....or rattle.....or roll. And at worst, twi is raising its head as the cornfield cult that many believe it to be. :D--> :D--> :D--> skyrider

Stealing people, really?? Could they be a little more specific? Could they be a little more honest?