skyrider

And, who got RAILED for their "believing" to stop the thunderstorms???.... .....the way corps --> --> --> .....VPW and LCM hated NOT BEING IN CONTROL.

Well......I know who DID NOT put up with it.... .....HQ's Research Team .....one by one, they left....even W. Cxmmins .....only R Geek, Catcup and Clxxp were left and they were not at hq (if memory serves me) .....and, finally these THREE left twi also (bullinger) :)-->

As with every grouping......there are exceptions. Twi's clergy was vastly different.....in experience, in goals, in leadership styles, in salted commitment towards twi. Sure I could name names to give vivid examples.......but I choose to refrain from that approach. Some clergy left twi in the 60s.....more clergy left in the 70s.....MOST of twi's clergy exited in the 80s......and probably about three dozen in the 90s (and after). Each with his or her own reasons for leaving. Yes, the clergy status opened doors for an aspiring leader to keep moving upward.........BUT imo it was the personalized selection and grooming from vpw and/or lcm that MADE THE DIFFERENCE. It was really quite easy to sit back and SEE who the mog was "grooming for his purposes." Besides.....if truth be known, it seemed like the clergy were very little more than top-notch corps. While on staff, I spent time with several clergy who were department coordinators or whatever. Many of these clergy had never performed a wedding, funeral, etc. One of these clergy women.....who was handicapped.....just wanted to be a support to her husband in way builders. But yes......those who were ego-driven, groomed, had a clergy status and hobnobbed with vpw or lcm.....YES, those were the ones who'd walk over anybody to have the mog's approval.

Wayfer Not! Why am I not surprised? I had invited two beautiful college girls to a city-wide twi function/open house with three branches coming together. With background music and some warm fellowship time, things started out fine. Then......D*vid stepped to the microphone and for the next 8-10 minutes was the most obnoxious emcee I'd ever seen BEFORE going inresidence. I was absolutely appalled. Needless to say, those two college girls quickly left and I never saw them again. And, I've NEVER forgotten how D*vid made a complete buffoon of himself that night.

The 17th corps were inresidence at the time of cgeer's poop paper...... And, lcm repeatedly said that these 17th corps were at a major crossroads. If they stood strong with lcm, the corps program would survive. From what I vaguely remember, Mxgnelli and Ruppx were 17th corps. Interesting to see where these guys are now......

So......in 2009 ........the theme will be... "The Promised Land of the Prevailing Word: Building Biblical Understanding and Researching Ministry Truths as We Master The Principles of God's Word to Strengthen Our Lives with The Fruit of the Spirit and Prevailing in Our Culture in Our Day and Time." :D--> :D-->

outandabout, About a year ago, someone here at GS did a good piece of work regarding "present truth".....and, in a nutshell described it this way: Present truth......NOT in terms of time (past, present, future) Present truth......in II Peter is used in the context of location...that it is HERE, it's available, its now present. It debunked about every principle of research that twi claims to employ. :D--> That's what I remember.

Thanks Raf & Jonny... Maybe I was sleeping during some of these class sessions......BECAUSE I still don't get it? What does this book.....this "private interpretation" of Koestler.....have to do with my spiritual walk before God? --> --> Am I the ONLY one who never connected the dots on this one? What did wierwille want us advanced class students to take from all of this?

This book, promoted at twi's advanced classes, goes into extensive detail on "true jewish" heritage and history. Quite honestly, I never grasped why vpw wanted this book in twi's bookstore?? With the marking of the 60th Anniversary of the Liberation of Auschwitz concentration camps.....this book came to mind. In going to my first Advanced Class, I was overwhelmed by all the TANGENTS that vpw introduced to us students????? Could someone please explain this to me? I only skimmed parts of the book.....before moving on to other material. Thanks.

outandabout, "The Promised Land of the Prevailing Word"...........martindale "Building Biblical Understanding"....................rosie (with back to basics plug) In not-so-subtle twittledumb terminology......the promised land part ties back to marty martindale's reign. He was the modern "joshua"......self-proclaimed. And, the building biblical understanding stuff......helps set the stage for rosie to platform their new upcoming foundational class. And, the innies say in unison......yup, yup sounds good. --> IMO....it ties martindale micromanagement to rosie regimentation. That's all.

WOW, houseisarockin.................WOW! Amazingly descriptive! :)-->

NOW....WAIT....JUST....ONE....MINUTE. They say its "new research".....but really... ...its only re-packaged old stuff with slight variations. BINGO........I see, I see.

smurfette, Yeah....reading and studying.....reading and studying....ad nauseum Why not read a chapter....and ALL MONTH LONG just live and practice what one read??? Ever-learning and unable to come to a ginosko...to KNOW by experience....knowledge of the truth. Fallatious spirit......isn't that the "spiritual category?" :D-->

First of all.....a heavy dose of skepticism should be measured out when looking at any of twi's "new research"....or present truth. Why is twi panting.....like an foot in heat (O.T. reference in adv class).....to find something new, something different? Does it always have to be a competitive marketing plan against the christian churches? By the mid-90s, even the Region coordinators had to check "their revelation" and insight with martindfail. Even.....the highly touted revelation manifestations....that every advanced class should/could operate....were NONEXISTENT in twi's household. New research?........ :D--> :D--> :D--> Remember.....ALL NINE ALL THE TIME. In the 90s, this proclamation disappeared from twi language. It seems that even the followers have come to realize the hypocrisy. Who needs new research, new classes, new books.....and crossing another bridge. Maybe, they should retreat back OVER the bridge....to the land from whence they came? And besides.....twi needs a RESEARCH TEAM to do quality research. And that, my folks....they do NOT have!! skyrider

I dunno how accurate this test is.... it took me, like 2 seconds..... really :)-->

While in two or three corps/staff situations.....VPW did this.. SAME REPROOF-RAISIN' RESULT! --> -->

Belle....yeah, the income stream. :)--> MONEY.......always canoeing DOWNstream, it's easier. :D--> :D-->

George.....excellent post! And........in a few years the "de-Rivenbarkisms" will be washed away as the tides of time roll on. No one stands (except its founder, vp) to leave an imprint, let alone a legacy. :D--> It's the present truth, the present truth and NOTHING but the present truth!

The delete button has become a stroke of twi survival. For those who have first-hand knowledge of twi events and situations, it is apparent that twi's history is being rewritten. Clearly, there has been...and always will be, twi's public release that chronicles their past. And, then....another in-house, prevailing household version is interjected at staff meetings and corps training. For those of us who stayed after the mass exodus of 1988.....the process of rewriting twi history was like high tide that washes away the footprints in the sand. After 1988....ex-twi leaders' works (books, tapes, materials) were boxed and stored away After 1988....ex-leaders, ex-corps, and ex-followers were considered anathema After 1988....martindale declared major aspects of vpw's work as old-wineskins After 1988....mortgages approved by The Way Credit Union were now devilish-debt After 1988....the "present truth" could debunk last month's teachings After 1988....crossing the "bridge" was propaganda to "rewrite one's conscience" Yes, I know.......this is all too simplistic, many, MANY aspects were shifting and changing. But for the sake of illustration.....certainly 1988 was a crossroads year. Then..... After 2000....twi's lawyers advise them to get rid of martindale After 2000....waydale gains high exposure to declare abuses After 2000....two lawsuits against twi are settled out of court After 2000....another exodus ensues.....a few thousand leave After 2000....greasespot cafe continues to give voice Twi's programs......minutemen, fellow laborers, wow, college wow, military wow, way disciple, corps, recognized corps, special corps, university of life.......all have gone through major changes or been discarded altogether. Twi's classes.......being a class-oriented organization, their foundational class needs to be REWRITTEN and implemented. The 18-year reign of martindale is history, forgotten history.....a chapter that will be deleted. And.........therein lies the power of words. :)--> skyrider

You're right, Wayfer Not!.......my mistake. The magazine and tape cost EXTRA.....and that's a MANDATORY cost, doncha know? dmiller.....yeah, the bible is a side-show that keeps people around waiting for "the main attraction" --- twi. It's gotten to the place where people will sit around and endure just about anything.....to stay in denial. At least....in justifying my passt involvement :D--> :D-->....we got more for our buck ($$) in the mid-70s. There was good music, good times, lots of kickback fellowship, fun times and very SHORT bible teachings. Nothing heavy, nothing complicated, nothing religious or mushy.....yet, powerful! Ain't that way no more. It's worse than dead.......it's boooooooring religious platitudes from old geeezers! Save your money, folks. Read a couple of verses if you want.....and enjoy that beer. skyrider

In reading through that thread on twi theme for the new year, I was stunned by rivenbark's mushy message. It seems like doublespeak to me because....they are "always" building and there seems like NOTHING to show for it. Now, I realize that she is speaking about "building biblical understanding"......but, to all who've been around twi for decades, RISE and EXPANSION are to go hand in hand. Otherwise.....it's counterfeit. :)--> I would venture to say that 30 years ago, in 1975.....twi had about the same numbers, the same geographical presence. And if THAT'S true.....then what is there to show for this, except more centralization. So....now there's a bigger bureacracy to dictate policies! :D--> Might as well.......kiss your money good-bye when supporting such efforts. Imagine living a thousand miles away and sending in 15% of your annual income for what? A magazine. A weekly audiocassette tape. And, perhaps.......a confronting corps person in your area. No thanks. I'd keep my money and invest it elsewhere. :D--> skyrider

WOW, Galen...... First-hand accounts like yours and a la's vividly illustrate how destructive TWI's corps program is to their followers.

Galen, One more point.....Peter J. Wade continues his ministry work in Australia. Shroyxr's group, CFF, invited Peter in for a teaching series last year. From some who attended, I heard it was really good.

Galen, Do you have access to running the 1968 pfal version of twi's foundational class? LCM's wap class has replaced pfal in most cases. One of the reasons Peter J. Wadx's name and impact on pfal is so vivid to me is.....in 1974 after taking pfal, many of us requested the booklet. Vpw complimented Peter's work two or three times as he held up the booklet for students to purchase through the bookstore. Upon requesting it, our class instructor told us it was NO LONGER AVAILABLE. This did raise a red flag, or two. But hey.....who was I to argue the discrepancy. I had plenty of material to study. And another thing.....it was discrepancies like THIS that gave momentum to videotaping an updated version at PFAL '77. The plan fell thru with updates when too many mistakes and less-than-best performance by vpw materialized in the '77 class. I think the same happened for the 1975 advanced class. The Advanced Class '79 wasn't good enough to replace the '75 AC.

wingnut, I must admit.....for years I was a twi loyalist BUT a loy wannabe......NEVER. --> ****************** A la prochaine, Thanks for answering my questions, in detail... And........thanks for educating my heart. :)--> ((((a la))))