skyrider

The excellent post by Thomas Heller on leaven continues to intrigue me. :)--> It seems to me that whenever the topic of the pfal class surfaces, two or three supporters arrive on the scene and adamantly defend it.....and the debate is on! Many threads have documented both sides to this discussion and I have NO INTEREST in rehashing it, but rather......would like to discuss the intermediate class, the advanced class and early formulation of corp policies. Help me out here with some of the details......but if I remember correctly, the original pfal class version included three more hours, handling all three of the "worship manifestations." With this format, the new student was instructed on speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues and prophecy (in a believer's meeting). Right? Well, it was too much for new students.....too much information to grasp in one class, or so I was told. Anyways, the extra hours of "worship manifestations instruction" was severed from pfal, along with the segment on "The Day Jesus Christ died." Later, the intermediate class re-emerged as a follow-up class and was offered to new pfal grads within 3-6 months to those who were faithful to twi fellowships and were "bold" in speaking in tongues. The majority of the "text" for the intermediate class was found in I Corinthians 12-14.....with a few isolated scriptures on "other tongues" & "stammering lips" and such. Much more "liberties" were taken by vpw to teach this material......i.e. private interpretation. Plus, practice sessions were part of the class and students were susceptible to indoctrination......leavening the process. In the Advanced Class, we were told to memorize the definitions of the nine manifestations. Much time was spent on outlining these definitions......and release group sessions were in place to stage a time for reinforcement. With these definitions and subjects like "the myth of the six million"...and "the marxist minstrels"...and the illuminati....and conspiracy theories....and seed of serpent overthrows......we learned the advanced class indoctrination that vpw presented. Sure there were Scriptures in these classes.....but how could the fermenting process of the leaven work without the dough in the pan????? As the gradual change of the leaven worked its "magic"...........the corps commitment was just another step in the process. One could easily argue that the 5 corps objectives were unbiblical and merely "more definitions" that vpw penned to indoctrinate the youth. The secrecy of the added leaven......is measured out over time!!! skyrider

Hmmmmmmm.....could it be any clearer?? The foundational pfal class had lots of scripture and a little leaven... The leavening of the intermediate class with definitions and more private interpretation... Increased leavening in the advanced class with wierwillian doctrine and agendas... The leavening of the corps program ....starting with the 5 corps objectives... Yeah.....and the blood sacrifice of Jesus on the doorway of our hearts has brought many of us full circle to this day of forgiveness and remission of sins.

From what I've heard......Michael and Cindy are NO LONGER on twi's payroll and requested to step down to find secular employment. The list of such occurrences continues. Apparently, there is a growing concern of jitters amongst region/limb and corps leaders about what lies ahead for twi. Understandable so! From the "field perspective"........the evidence is growing that around 35 states or more are shuffling along with very little twi-activity. Of course, the corporate view displays the manicured lawns and pretty flower beds and people on the grounds......BUT don't be fooled, most of those strolling around are the staff folks. :D--> :D-->

CHANGING A LIGHT BULB THE CHRISTIAN WAY How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb? Charismatic : Only 1 Hands are already in the air. Pentecostal : 10 One to change the bulb, and nine to pray against the spirit of darkness. Presbyterians : None Lights will go on and off at predestined times. Roman Catholic : None Candles only. Baptists : At least 15. One to change the light bulb, and three committees to approve the change and decide who brings the potato salad and fried chicken. Episcopalians: 3 One to call the electrician, one to mix the drinks and one to talk about how much better the old one was. Mormons : 5 One man to change the bulb, and four wives to tell him how to do it. Unitarians : ?? We choose not to make a statement either in favor of or against the need for a light bulb. However, if in your own journey you have found that light bulbs work for you, you are invited to write a poem or compose a modern dance about your light bulb for the next Sunday service, in which we will explore a number of light bulb traditions, including incandescent, fluorescent, 3-way, long-life and tinted, all of which are equally valid paths to luminescence. Methodists : Undetermined Whether your light is bright, dull, or completely out, you are loved. You can be a light bulb, turnip bulb, or tulip bulb. Bring a bulb of your choice to the Sunday lighting service and a covered dish to the pitch-in. Nazarenes: 6 One woman to replace the bulb while five men review the church lighting policy. Lutherans: None Lutherans don't believe in change. Amish : What's a light bulb?

Point taken. Comparing a godly situation like in Acts 6 with an exploiting situation like twi is like COMPARING APPLES AND ORANGES. Where do you start???????? :)-->

And....with regards to the Acts 6 record...... There is NO COMPARISON to have this situation and twi's EXPLOITATION some 2000 years later. The CENTRALIZATION of power, authority, money and excathedra policies that emanate from twi's hq is a far, far cry from God's original intent. Such exploitation and oppression must anger God Almighty. Am I making myself clear????? :D-->

Oh......I think the "gravy job" comment extends much further than that. How about Joe Coxlter, Nxnxy Hxrnx, Gxry Frxdrxck, Jxhn Rxyxolds, Dxnna Mxrtindxle, etc. etc. etc.???? Why do these people stay at hq??? I strongly suggest that it falls in the realm of..... beneficiaries of the exploitation. Who you know and who you hob-knob with is of great interest. Who wants to snuggle up to more perks? more inside-info? playing one's cards to be indispensible??? How could they ever get rid of John Lxnder??? This guy has them over a barrel with all he knows. IMO he is indispensible. Region guys are axed....year after year. Hmmmmmmmm......the "top position" on the field is NOT indispensible??? Yet, staffers can stay for decades......and DO! Being accountable for work stuff....and NOT PEOPLES' LIVES AND DECISIONS is a much more favorable position. Field people are like jugglers at a circus......staffers are like the ticket-takers at the circus. :D--> :D-->

Who said anything about vile? about manipulators? What I am saying is there are staffers who are beneficiaries of this exploitation. Maybe it's kinda temporary.....maybe it isn't. Probably some like rural living. Many would claim to be working at hq cause "God wants them there"...... but I think that they are beneficiaries of the exploitation. Maybe not so much financial beneficiaries..... add some perks, some recognition, some ego-stroking, some "spiritually classified info," some whatever........and SOME STAFF WILL NOT LEAVE. Yeah, it's probably very complicated......but I don't have time to write a book. Just want to give some glimpses to what I've seen. :)-->

Nope.....never changes. Yeah, the "exploiters" and the "exploited." All followers on the field.......the non-corps, the corps, the newbies, the old-timers, part-time region secretaries and whoever else........are the EXPLOITED. And, the beneficiaries of this exploitation......sit at their desks at hq and wanting this system to continue for decades to come.

As many here know.....I consider my corps "training" as one that was laced with indoctrination. In many ways, I was ministering to people before going it......giving and growing without compulsion. Sure, there were a few things that had helped in the broad spectrum of ministering to others. Of course, things like public speaking ability can be utilized in a multitude of ways, secular avenues as well. But......I think that most of the stuff could have been grasped in a three-month program, kind of a summer school setup type of thing. But then.........the inDOCTRINEaction wouldn't have worked very well. Isn't that right, twi? :P-->

Two distinct patterns of thought and lifestyle are found under twi's umbrella of commitment: 1) a corporate position and 2) a field of screams. And, as the numbers diminish.....it becomes more apparent. Two distinct groups: A corporate position * Rosie is the ceo * Staffers are handled according to their jobs and corporate allegiance * Supervisors and dept coordinators....not a way tree structure * No requirements on witnessing, traveling, abundant sharing * No classroom setups, no foundational class attendance * Few requirements at night....staff have family time * More and more evolving to corporate policies A Field of Screams * Strict way tree structure in force * Obedience to field leadership is routinely enforced * Boundaries of communication are GREATEST structure and intimidator * Manipulation of abundant sharing * Attendance to fellowship.....two or three nights a week * Screaming sessions to strengthen intimidation and conformity The brief overview above is a way of clarifying the hypocrisy within twi. And, it is my opinion that more and more twi followers SEE THE HYPOCRISY. The internet exposure is suffocating twi's agendas!!! Martindale's ousting and lawsuits......MAJOR eye-opener!!! Windows of opportunity are closing for aging corps!!! Prices of living is squeeeeeeezing the hard-earned dollar!!! Mark & Avoid policies silence the outgoing.....but SPEAK volumes!!! When corps quit, adv class grad are pushed to step up....and then, THEY SEE Every year of involvement yields a lost year of strengthening personal goals. SCREAMING sessions are like the invisible fence for the family dog.........the dog doesn't see it, but knows it's there if wanting outside the boundaries that the owner has set.

A ceo????? That's funny......hahahahahahahahaha Probably trying to distance herself from the woggie-doggie tag.....ya think? :D-->

outtadofog......I, too, appreciate your kind words. Your heartfelt sentiment is like medicine to my soul. :)-->

Was it.......crinnion??? or something like that??

And.......looking back at ALL THIS SOCIOPATHIC BEHAVIOR....I can't believe I stayed so long!!! ..... .....

Bob.....are you referring to that teaching from Proverbs?? sort of an oriental reference to how people are manipulated in the marketplace or a negotiating situation?? If that's the one.....it's in the book of proverbs, I think. alfa....around 1981/82 and yes, I think Jim did head out for Colorado.....but am not sure. Recalling this stuff from over 20 years ago.....just soooooo much stuff, ya know?

alfa.....yeah, thanks. I went to that link and read through it again. It really does help to piece together the many sides of wierwille. Another incident.......at the campfire in the way woods, vpw wanted to have a "nightowl" with us corps. Nice night.....a few tender songs.....the crickets chirping in the distance......and vpw starts "sharing the things on his heart." Another forty minutes go by......and then, the piercing static of a two-way radio...kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkssstttskkkkkssss!!!!! Wierwille's aid/bodyguard -- Jim Crxm had accidently bumped the volume on his two-way radio and he was standing in the shadows about 15 feet away from vpw. Well...........vpw went BEZERK. He railed on Jim with a vicious tongue-lashing for about 5 minutes!!! It seemed like forever.....as the "endless" verbal thrashing took place. I was stunned and remember very little else that happened! It took wierwille another ten minutes to gain his composure and resume with his sharing. Jcrim was the type of guy that didn't take shxx from NO ONE. He was ....ed. He packed his bags and was outta there!!!

IMO...vpw WAS controlling. The first corps program was CANCELLED......and carried the distinct designation as "the zero corps." Who tagged this label on it? Vpw?? ..... I don't know for sure, but it was a stigma that was held over other corps programs. In several close encounters "of the third kind" [ 1. the man, 2. the teacher, 3. the sociopath ]..... I saw weirwille, the sociopath, give scathing confrontation that was INCARNATE EVIL. In the BRC with some 100 other staff and corps, I couldn't believe how he ripped and tore at the soul of an 8th corps guy. Some of this has been posted before, so I'll refrain from more detail. I witnessed several of these during my twi tenure. Granted.....vpw allowed some things to slide, and he would adjust to a sympathetic situation, draw back and let people see a "father-type" figure. But it seemed, that even this too was measured. Wierwille definitely knew how to work a crowd.

Yeah....it wasn't the class, it was the inDOCTRINEation. Had I taken pfal and went on my merry way....no big deal. Had I taken a few classes and gone to a few things.....still, no big deal. Had I gone WOW and left twi after that WOW year......I'd have learned valuable lessons. BUT.....to have gone corps and STAYED WITH TWI for over two decades.....it's gut-wrenching to look back and see all the indoctrination, manipulation, deception, adulterous-adulation, exageration, pontification, etc. I think you get my drift.

Maybe, Coultxr and the a/v gang have recommended that she stay in the background.......just no good camera angles no matter what they do!!

There has been a major shift since Rosie advanced to president-status with the ousting of craig martindale in 2000......seems like she is "leading" from behind the scenes. Wierwille built this organization by FRONTING it on several levels......throughout several decades. He rarily secluded himself from public view. And, martindale grabbed a microphone whenever and wherever he could. Some of his wildest rantings were in the OSC lunchroom......and the staff didn't dare miss lunch! But Rosie is a "behind the scenes" type of leader. She has been tagged as a "great planner"......but really, so what???? Jeez, all kinds of dark organizations have "leaders" that stay in the shadows? And, some here post that Donna does the same.....off to the side..... watching..... listening..... manipulating..... strategizing.... Year after year.....twi slips deeper into the shadows. And they wonder why recruitment levels are SO LOW????? -->

Placement Meetings......TOO MANY CHIEFS and not enough Indians. Imagine being the corps coordinators in the room.....and talking about "training" 5 people. :D--> Imagine being a region guy.......and talking about some states with NO fellowships at all. Imagine how the BOD tries to formulate more plans for new corps recruits amidst all the internet exposure in the past 6 years!!!! The twi hype is at an all-time LOW.

ex.....yeah, really TWISTED. :D--> :D--> Seems like....the "holy writ of wierwille" lives on....and on....on. :D--> :D--> And...........there's nothing like plagerizing the plagerizer!! :D--> :D-->

Shaz.....yeah, LifeLines. Some of them have been adapted a bit, but here's a few that I seem to remember. My copy of lifelines is boxed away in the attic. Here's a few (as best I remember): (7) When you have a problem, never tell more people than necessary. (8) Believing equals receiving, whether negative or positive. (11) All pressure begins in the mind. You allow yourself to be pressured. (12) Change involves work. And....13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23 (slightly adapted) etc. WOW !!!! Maybe TWI should sue them over copyright laws!! :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D-->

johniam.......... not quite sure which denomination(s) you are talking about??? For the record....in twi, that little wedding booklet states....."Dearly Beloved, we are assembled in the sight of God...." The minister in the ceremony stated this.....and the "we" referred to the people present who were witnesses to these vows. The booklet was given to the couple as a momento of their wedding vows.