skyrider

OM......"for many years to come"..........HOW MANY is that???????? After graduation, I stayed committed for 17 years......is that enuff yrs??? And, what are the corps supposed to do when the mogs add enough private interpretation to sink a ship? And, I don't even have to bring up their walking uprightly. No wonder wierwille was wishing on his deathbed to have LIVED holy and acceptable unto HIM.

And.....when we were taught Ephesians these mogs taught us how God EMPHASIZES the doctrine and practice in equal proportion. Without practical application, it ain't nothing. Also....the gift ministries are ON THE PRACTICAL SIDE (ephesians 4) to show God's people how to walk the talk, how to live above the world. Sure, we all sin....I've sinned and come short of the glory of God. bUT this is far beyond bad judgment and little mistakes!! C'mon, get real..... What wierwille & martindale have done to my corps sisters is CRIMINAL. Damn straight!

Mr. H.....thanks. And one more point.........LOTS OF US CORPS WENT OUT AND DID OUR BEST FOR GOD......all the while wierwille and martindale and others (??) CAN'T KEEP THEIR DXCKS IN THEIR PANTS!!!! Let me say it ONE MORE TIME......I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR WIERWILLE OR MARTINDALE...... NONE! They were/are deceivers of the worst kind.....and ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing. Their "stand for God" sickens me!! And, as I stand on the truth of the scriptures....I stand in good stead. Those guys lost their salted commitment......THEY WALKED AWAY AND WERE A DISGRACE TO GOD. And yes, I'm telling you how I realllllllllllly feel.

Oak.....I'd agree with that! Plus......TWI PLAYS FAVORITES! Why doesn't Joe Coultxr GO OUT AND MOVE THE WORD???? Why doesn't John Lindxr put away his clock pistol and GO MOVE THE WORD????? Why doesn't Donna Martindale get off her foot and GO DO SOMETHING????? Some of these "trained people" have been sitting in their corporate offices at hq for 30 friggin years!!!

OM.....yeah, I see your point. For the record.......I didn't have sponsors. Prayer partners, yes I had those......but financially, I paid all of it

Yeah, rascal.....it is evident. I know that Larry Pxnnarxlo has told "his group" to stay off these boards. I tend to think that the more an ex-twier considers the WHOLE PICTURE.....self, initial involvement, system, home-based exclusiveness, taped teachings, etc...... one then is able to cut ties and experience greater self-esteem and life.

1 mog on motorcoach + 1 corps girl accompanying him = 3 who now know mog's illicit ways Shame on the bus drivers. Shame on you, Howard.

The mortgage=debt policies of twi is little more than....a short leash. This leash is a restraint to control twi's leadership, assets, and image.....because without it, the corps and advanced class grads who ran fellowships would overwhelmingly buy homes and settle into a community of personal choice. When I signed up for the corps program, there was NOTHING IN WRITING about a lifetime commitment to twi. I never made THAT commitment. Had there been even the slightest hint about this.....I WOULD NEVER HAVE GONE CORPS. Yet, as has been noted many times before, the deception lies in a constant changing controlling environment. Year after year, I regrettably took corps assignment after corps assignment.....to the detriment of my personal goals and achievements. I failed to recognize the scam in the 70s.....and 30 YEARS LATER twi still has shifting manipulation. WHY IS TWI STILL DOING "RESEARCH" ON MORTGAGES/DEBT?????....... because they want to keep their people on a short leash. It keeps the innie in check. Twi policies restrain and bind. Some corps grads went back to get further education, more degrees.....and away they went. Who turns back when the smell of freedom is in the air? Certain situations and manipulations were in place to leash us in. Sure, the dog gets to walk around the block and sniff the ground. Sure, the dog likes the change of scenery and perks to the different noises and smells. Only when he tries to RUN and DART AWAY to chase a squirrel does he feel the restraint of the leash. BUT..... we're not talking about a "dog's life" here, are we?? ;)--> It is my opinion that most of the field corps understand "the leash factor" these days. Besides, I think that more and more lurkers are coming to these boards and light bulbs are going off in their heads. The corps signups are pathetically low anymore......and, I think, will continue to stay that way. Give it up!....rosie & donna & region suck-ups!! The facade no longer conceals your agendas. Any lurkers on these boards, just google.... "the way international" .... and see what comes up !!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER AGAIN will one group hold me on a leash. NEVER. EVER. AGAIN. skyrider

mdvaden....from your aloof position, it's quite understandable. To say that this forum mainly goes over the same basic topics is like saying......"I don't really like landscaping. I get tired of mowing grass." Have fun mowing. :)-->

I know a 6th corps girl, injured her foot/leg in a car accident, and received a court settlement of $100,000..... as Dr. Wierwille was "aggressively working to eliminate that debt." She had it to give and signed it over to twi. She's no longer corps, but still involved. From what she told me, vp cried as he accepted this huge "donation" in twi coffers. And, for years she and her husband stayed on staff payroll. Today, she still has a piece of that mortgage taped inside the front cover of her bible.

George.....point taken. To me, the complexities of my past involvement with that group are layered at many levels. Clearly, had I seen back then WHAT I SEE NOW, my posting would be non-existent. But in simple terms, the dichotomy of twi is at opposite ends of the spectrum: 1) the good people who loved God with high-road motives 2) the manipulators, the system, the legalism In my opinion, the zenith of activity around headquarters was around 1981-1984. After The Grand Ole Opry production (January 1984).....vpw's goal had been achieved. Martindale had his own arrogant goals.....and yes, it was obvious!! :D--> :D-->

socks.....yeah, a "spiritual extortion" of sorts, by a self-proclaimed authority. And, the field corps are EXPLOITED year after year. Twi headquarters is the beneficiary of this free labor and monies sent in under the guise of abundant sharing. All the while, this mortgage=debt policy shackles corps and others from ADVANCING FORWARD IN LIFE..... a ball and chain, for sure. And, in honor of this thread.......we don't call him "Moneyhands" for nothing. :D--> :D-->

Yeah HCW......vpw and way productions (1981-1984). Lots of people, lots of talent. Being on staff at that time, I too saw the things you described. To me, these were the zenith years of twi.....Living Victoriously, Ambassador One flights, High Country Caravan productions, orchestra recordings and vpw wanted "his people" to perform at The Grand Ole Opry. At corps week 1984, lcm and vpw and townsend were sitting up front. These men were seated and sharing the things of the ministry. After about 30 minutes, lcm started off on his tangent of the athletes of the spirit production, the costumes, the lighting, the dance choreography, the symbolism, etc.......and vp slightly shook his head and the mic picked it up when he said, "This dance symbolism will never carry the greatness of the word." In short order, lcm moved onto another subject......but he didn't grasp what vpw had just said. Seemingly, the arrogance on stage was so thick it could have been cut with a knife. In May of 1985, Athletes of the Spirit premiered. In May of 1986, the pompous paper was read in the auditorium by Cgeer.....and read at corps week. How quickly everything changed!!!

Bob......before rambling on about ONE isolated example of narrow-minded obedience, I've got a few questions about this: 1) When buying this house, what was the neighborhood like? the other homes? 2) What school district accompanied this home purchase? 3) Was this area a low-crime area? were real estate values growing? 4) How about an accommodating location? drive time to work? to fellowships? 5) How about privacy? two-car garage? driveway with basketball hoop? nice back yard? 6) How much MORE "fix up" to do besides what you describe as IMMEDIATE??? 7) How do you know that this is a "position of strength?" You see, Bob......buying a house is ALOT more than just coming up with a lump of cash and finding one at low bottom dollar rates. What if the husband is NOT a fixer-upper? And, if its an inner school district..... what about the education of children? Isn't THAT important?.... or are you suggesting we move again in a few years? or just believe God? Home ownership is HIGHLY personal, Bob.......and it seems that your input is not only NOT HELPING, its detrimental and devious. Just as Belle noted, you are manipulating her thinking. Then, Bob....you follow up with additional manipulation. This one really jumps out: :D--> :D--> :D--> ........... it's 2005 and are twi disciples STILL WAITING on "research" to be in the center of the will of God????????????????

And another thing..... Back in 1994-1996.....LCM ranted on and on that a mortgage was debt. According to twi's president, the research HAD ALREADY been done. In Bob's syrupy letter of 2001..... he states that "our biblical men are working on (it)".... is he just stringing Belle along here or is twi RE-considering their position????? Now, its 2005.......are they STILL "working on it" ????? I wouldn't doubt it. Unbelievable, Bob...........unbelievable !!!! -->

Bob's letter of incredible wisdom (cough, cough).... Gee Bob.....did it ever enter you pea-brain thinking that some have REFINANCED after a couple of years at a better rate AND knocked a mortgage down to 15 years.....add in a few extra payments and one's mortgage will be paid in 8-10 years!!!! Didn't think of those little nifty ideas....did ya bob? Of course not.....twi pays you to OBEY, not think !! Just reading Bob's "advice" gives me the willies........eeewwwoooooowww!

Speaking of maintenance and cleaning monotony.......some claim that the corps chalet is far worse. The colorado logs were never meant for the ohio humidity, insects and stuff.

In terms of "Finding Yourself"...... I found this study interesting. Topping the list of psychological needs, a study finds 1) autonomy, 2) competence, 3) relatedness and 4) self esteem emerging as the most important. "Attaining popularity or influence and money or luxury is not what makes people the happiest and is at the bottom of the list of psychological needs, according to a new study. Topping the list of needs that appear to bring happiness are autonomy (feeling that your activities are self-chosen and self-endorsed), competence(feeling that you are effective in your activities), relatedness(feeling a sense of closeness with others), and self-esteem." These findings appear in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, published by the American Psychological Association (APA). Getting away from cult-influences would be THE FIRST STEP.....I might add. :D-->

Bus rides and long trips can be grueling for sure......BUT if the destination yields fun, excitement, bonding, memories, etc...THEN it's worth every hour and every penny. If truth were TOLD.....it seems apparent that the destination (twi hqs) was HO-HUM, BEEN-THERE-DONE-THAT, NO FRILLS and definitely DISTANCE-BONDING.....ie "we love you from a distance." Even a child can spot hypocrisy at work...... and a teenager will confront it !! :D--> :D-->

Thanks Belle. :)--> Maybe a few more.... a horde of hogwash a bulk of baloney a baffle of .... a legion of lies a quagmire of chaos

Belle......good thread and its good to bring this topic to the forefront again. From my own experience, I know that it took me a few years to acknowledge and confront twi legalism and hypocrisy that was staring me in the face! Little by little, the evidence kept mounting and became irrefutable. TIMING is everything! Exit twi on your own terms and at your choosing!!! :D--> :D-->

Remember that poem entitled Sermons We See.......it had a wealth of wisdom in it. I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day, I'd rather one would walk with me than merely point the way. .....[and so the poem goes]..... Major denominations and small non-denominational churches are everywhere...... bible groups galore...... study guides, retreats, seminars and purpose-driven books ...... splinter groups are splintering off other splinter groups....... internet "ministries" ....... tele-evangelists and drive-thru confession booths......etc. etc. etc. Preach, preach, preach......talk, talk, talk......study, study, study. --> --> What are some of the sermons you've seen in the past six months? I love sermons that I can SEE. :D-->

Belle, Are they still doing these sign-up bus trips to hqs? And, were these trips scheduled for major events like Pentecost weekend & Anniversary weekends or just run-o-the-mill services?? More than likely, twi will toot their horn long & loud for this 20th anniversary. :D--> :D-->

A two-day bus ride to twi's hq??? No kidding!!!......and probably most would agree that ALL THAT EFFORT TO BE HERDED AROUND TWI AND GO TO A SNS....was a royal waste of time and money!!! The bus ride just gave em lots of time to come to that conclusion. :D--> :D-->

A twig of gullibles A branch of volunteers A limb of involvement A region of adulation A trunk of suspicion A root of culpability