skyrider

Hypocrites! For sure. They conspire to burden their followers with guilt and twisted logic to ensnare them. The trustees and top leaders are biblically aligned with sadducees and pharisees....who hide behind false authority to gain entrance. Blind guides.....demanding hefty fees,

IF....twi trustees were ANNOINTED BY GOD and were DOING THE LORD'S WORK, and hazarding their lives for the Lord.....then maybe this could be considered?? IF....the corporate entity of twi WAS NOT A BUSINESS, but a godly work and exhibited the signs, miracles, wonders, and boldness with power from on high as keynoted throughout the book of Acts.....then maybe lcm would have a point. IF....MISREPRESENTATION of truth wasn't such a glaring issue in martindale's teaching......then maybe followers would have "all things common." IF....there were any true, God-fearing APOSTLES around........then maybe??? TWI TRUSTEES AND TOP LEADERS ARE THE MODERN-DAY PHARISEES.......not the liberators, not the True Church, serving in the name of the Lord.

This topic deserves its own thread. Many here at GS talk about tithing and/or abundant sharing......BUT few know about plurality giving. In 1997, just prior to my exiting twi.......LCM was teaching from Acts 4 and his message was one that ALL twi followers should strive for plurality giving. In brief form, tithing and abundant sharing (15%-20%) was NOT GOD'S WILL for the faithful....it was weak believing. Acts 4:32-35 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. In this corps meeting teaching, LCM was adamant that ALL twi followers were falling short of THEIR responsibility to give. According to LCM's private interpretation of these verses....the faithful followers DID NOT NEED the extras in life. What extras?.....things like pets, cable tv, karate lessons, newer cars, etc. Again, here's an example: Say a couple makes $50,000 a year and can live on $30,000 a year.....then, according to this plurality giving concept, the rest would (and SHOULD) be handed over to twi. According to lcm's teaching, THAT was the honest proportion and duty of EVERY WAY BELIEVER before God. Look at how the numbers climb!!! tithe of $50,000 = $5,000 ABS of $50,000 = $7,500 Plurality giving of $50,000 = $20,000 P.S. I left shortly after this, so am not sure it grabbed hold. But this plurality giving concept was twi's agenda in 1997.

Well.......the worst I ever heard was in a corps meeting in 1997. LCM was teaching from Acts.....every household believer should aspire to PLURALITY GIVING. Sidestepping lots of issues and first century culture, lcm believed that it was the duty of every believer to give ALL plurality (money) to twi. Here's an example: Say a couple makes $50,000 a year and can live on $30,000 a year. Then, according to this plurality giving concept, the rest would (and SHOULD) be handed over the twi. According to lcm's teaching, THAT was honest before God. Look at how the number climb!!! tithe of $50,000 = $5,000 ABS of $50,000 = $7,500 Pl. giving of $50,000 = $20,000 P.S. I left shortly after this, so am not sure it grabbed hold. But this was WHAT lcm was striving to gain.

Belle & ex10.......yeah, maybe it was an imposter faction in dixieland. This Georgia baker was very adamant about it being pronounced "pee-can." He11, what do I know.....I've moved so many times that sometimes I find myself in the state of confusion!!!! :D--> :D--> :D-->

ex10.....not in those neck of the woods. It's PEE-can. Maybe you're not as "dixie" as you think? ;)-->

60% dixie ....... those years in Georgia were wild times. :D--> During the holiday times, I went to a local bakery and bought a pecan pie. When I pronounced it (pa-con).....instead of pee-can.....the guy GLARED at me and said, "You MUST be a Yankee"!!!!!

Yeah......"distasteful"....a euphemism to soften it abit. With all the corruption that has been uncovered in twi, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if someday I found out that the wierwille home remodel and addition was paid by twi abundant sharing monies......and NOT by uncle harry as we were told !!

Good point, Bramble. :)--> And, with new folks and lurkers on these GS boards.....someone should re-post ROSIE'S MONEY and land investments in North Carolina.

ex70.....generally, I agree with most of your posts.....but to say that first assignments of corps would "almost always .... people off" misses the mark. Dunno about your experiences,.....but gee, I doubt that the corps numbers would have grown in those years (1975-1984) if corps were that obnoxious. From what I've seen and read here at GS, it seems that around 1984/85/86 thereabouts, things really started spiralling downward. And, the corps numbers dwindled significantly.

Probably.....the other region guys took notes on this one. Notes on WHAT NOT to do or say!!! :D--> :D-->

Gee...by now, twi is probably hitting up the intermediate class grads for a lifetime of cult service. :P--> :P-->

Belle....for a second there, I thought you were talking about CORPS mtgs. :D--> The disdain is suffocating. Every advanced class grad who sat in those types of meetings must have experienced a glimpse of how some of us corps felt. Uuuuuuuuuuggggghhh.

WTH.....while you make some valid points, you cloud others. Are you sure about this?????....."most people???? Smart people don't tie up all their money in a house. :)--> Yes....study it and learn well the difference. And, don't allow real estate agents, or brokers, or banks tempting you to buy bigger and bigger! They are salesmen!!!.... selling their wares!!! ON THE FLIP SIDE......renting has LOADS of pitfalls as well. Issues of privacy, security, crime, apartment neighbors, landlords selling and ya gotta move AGAIN, garage space?? area for kids to safely play?? etc. etc. To each his own! But for twi to dictate that mortgage=debt is dishonest and manipulative. Their dishonest motives are HIGHLY suspect.

Moneyhands' soupy advice should be linked on the front page of GS.....titled under, Region Guy Regurgitates Rhetoric. Bob's emails to Belle give telling insight to a system of extortion. And, biblical "research" on crutches and welfare. :P-->

diazbro......exactly! The early days of twi were a combination of MANY factors.......none of which, collectively or sequencially could be duplicated ever again. Add to that, the dynamic leaders who spearheaded work [California area....New York area] before vpw engrafted their work and buried their identities. In basicly ONE generation of youthful exuberance.....18 years of sustained growth......twi established a foothold. The last 20 years [1985-2005]......twi has been on the decline. The youth of corps parents are NOT signing to go corps. The youth of innies do NOT want to march to this drum any longer!! How many are PLANNING THEIR EXIT STRATEGIES as spring and summer arrives??????? :D--> :D-->

Yeah, Oak......advanced class grads were next in line. When corps were fired and/or split out, ac grads were prompted to step up to the plate and run fellowships. Of course, this too meant that THEY could not have a mortgage. In three different states, I know of ac grads who jumped thru the hoops of lcm's dictates, the Y2K stuff, the martindale ouster and beyond. One couple in 2002 purchased a home and forfeited running their home fellowship......even though state leadership reproved them vehemently for it! Two couples, not corps........left in August 2004. They had FINALLY called it quits with twi. The dogmatic agendas kept marching along under rosie.....not missing a step. So, yes.....if not corps, then its the next in line who gets "a short leash." Surely, one can't expect the 230 corps (??) at hqs to leave their cushy desk jobs and go out on the field?????? After all, that corps guy in the Purchasing Department is reaaaallly needed to purchase the standard quota of stock items week after week after week????? :D--> :D-->

outandabout......less than two years ago, a corps couple told me that THE REASON they left twi was because it was SO DEAD. My last five years in twi......our branch had campouts, picnics, skiing weekends, fishing trips with the kids, teenager movie nights and parties, fun-n-game nights, baseball games, etc. Thankfully, I was FAR AWAY from hqs and didn't have heavy-handed leadership. I don't take well to monotony or religiosity. We had lots of fun.....but the encroaching legalism wasn't far away. Reports had to be filled out. Leadership were asking more questions, prodding, and ready to confront. LCM wanted to snuff out all individuality, all one-on-one fellowship. The corps meetings were the telling signs of cult calamity...... he was blinded by his own arrogance and vanity. What happened to "the dynamic church" that veepee preached??????? --> :D-->

:D--> :D-->

The existing state of twi affairs is static......it is NOT MOVING FORWARD. The opposite of static is *dynamic.* Their book, The New, Dynamic Church adds green color to their book display, but the pages might as well be blank. The drumming of their message over and over and over again...... grow, study, witness, run classes .... is a number's game, not LIFE! Twi tries to mold every leader into one group and every non-leader into another group. The OSC building is becoming a rural assistance-living arrangement with the cafeteria as the main social day event. And, on the field.....way magazine articles are reviewed in fellowships after everyone has read them. Dead-pan rigidicity. Scripture-Alert** :)--> In Acts 8, Philip preached Christ to the city of Samaria. Miracles happened. Unclear spirits departed. Simon the sorcerer was exposed. Philip went to the eunuch and opened the scriptures. The eunuch believed and was baptized. Then the accounts of Philip go silent. Philip settles in Caesarea and raises his family......four daughters who later, prophesy to the Apostle Paul [Acts 21:8,9]. ***Here's my point......Apparently, Philip, a spirit-filled evangelist was IN THE WILL OF GOD in his decision to stay in one place AND raise four dynamic daughters!!!! He didn't have to move every 3 years!! He didn't have hundreds of hoops to jump thru!! He just walked with the Lord. Why doesn't twi ever teach the depth of ACCOUNTS LIKE THIS??? Why?....because it debunks their systematizing of error. It jumbles their corps policies. Corps would get ideas that they too can STAY PUT in one city AND DO THE WILL OF GOD A LIFETIME. Twi is static in their policies, their mindset......and THAT'S the way they want it. With blanket policies, it's so easy to administer and oversee. Corporate bullyness is a lose/lose situation.

The way mag reads like a children's storybook......sitting in a circle and the kindergarten teacher rosie is doing the reading. Sit still little kids....and afterwards, you'll have milk and cookies before nappy time. Pathetically sad, actually.

They're already *spotted*.......and the leopard CANNOT change his *spots.* Seriously though, profiling a cult leader would resemble lots of what II Peter 2 expounds on false teachers, false prophets. * damnable heresies * pernicious ways * covetousness (covet allegiance) * make merchandise of you * judging now * presumptuous & self-willed * railing accusations * speaking evil of dignities * eyes full of adultery * cannot cease from sin * beguiling unstable souls * an heart of covetous practices * following the way of Balaam * love the wages of unrighteousness

igotout......yeah, I remember LCM stating this and Don promoting word in business and that each one of us needed to find our niche in life. Back in the 70s, wayworld was totally different......until it changed around 1980/81 with the dog soldier stuff. Guess I never gave my core allegiance to twi.......never. Sure I respected the teachings, else I'd never have stayed so long. But in my mind........the life of Jesus, and Paul, and Peter, and Silas, and Barnabus, and others in the new testament were my sterling examples of God's men. Course the old testament men and women were beyond what I could even fathom. Even in the 70s, I saw wierwille waver in decision-making. I saw him in a fit of rage many times, fits that were unnecessary. Each time, my respect for him lessened....and the wannabe-wierwilles that lapped up his every word and fart. It sickened me. I could see the hypocrisy creeping through twi. And yes.......I AM BEGINNING TO FINALLY SEE that this corps experience made me better and stronger. I signed on the line for God. Period. Maybe I was totally naive, but I had pure motives to help and give and minister. And, I've met hundreds of corps who were doing the same.

socks......this kinda stuff bugged me too. The word that comes to my mind is.....compassion. The lack of compassion yields indifference or unwillingness to help [Luke 10:30-32]. Why couldn't twi's trustees SEE the needs of the people?? And, see the ticking, ticking hands of time? Were they blinded by their own vanity? Yeah, vaunted with pride....it's hard to see anything else.

Okay.....I'm done talking. For now. :D-->