skyrider

Heck, nowadays......even high school students have to be WARY OF PLAGERISM when writing their papers and documenting their sources. From what I've heard, there are websites that exclusively help to target those who plagerize others' work and will do extensive background research to investigate. High schoolers are instructed of this.......and to properly follow "research and writing protocol." Why did veepee sidestep these ethics in his post-graduate work (??) and into his early start-up ministry work? Was veepee lazy? deceitful? jealous? conniving? Doojable, as you might know.......this topic has run its course a dozen times or so. And, of course, Mike will show up to share "the God-breathed pfal" doctrine. It's bound to happen.

Belle, Absolutely-damn-straight.......that's the way it was......and probably still is today. Just like politicians, it depended on WHO the audience was at the time. Keep posting. I love your posts. :)

I lift my glass high in the air.........to extend my best wishes and thanks to GreaseSpot for ANOTHER YEAR of open doors, open arms and open communication. Thanks, one and all. Whenever a recent innie posts here.......it underscores the power of personal testimony. Clearly, there are those who lurk here week after week, and month after month (and perhaps, year after year) BEFORE the chains of mental bondage are broken. GreaseSpot is a voice of hope, a voice of deliverance.......to those longing to understand, longing to break free from the oppression and guilt of twi. I remember those times of deep questioning twi's motives......those "fog years" and later, 1995-1997 before exiting twi's doors. Those late nights.....when I dared to think that twi's leadership was wrong and serving self-engaged agendas that were detrimental to my christian walk. Dare I question? Am I breaking fellowship to even think such thoughts? Who am I to question the MOG? Sometimes, the guilt of questioning was too much to bear.......so, I'd refrain and just "obey" twi dictates. But then, after a month or two.......questions would arise from a corps teaching, or how lcm slandered and "gutted" one of my friends on a corps teaching. Open, frontal, public, assault on some meaningless little incident that left us corps cowering in fear of martindale's threats. Uuuuuuuugh. I couldn't stomach such verbal abuse........nor could I rectify lcm's actions with the truth of God's Word. Why weren't the trustee's speaking up? Why was Don and Howard silent? Why did I have to listen to such accusations and personal attacks on a corps teaching? Why can't this be handled privately? Is there an agenda for berating corps in front of other corps? The questions kept coming.............and I took time to ponder them. Finally, when I could stomach no more........I exited twi, vowing NEVER to return. Did I do the right thing? Should I have given hq more time? NO....I told myself......I already did that after the "fog years." I labored and served to the best of my ability and kept waiting for twi to change. It never happened. Then, I discovered trancenet and later Waydale..........a new day had dawned. Personal accounts, testimonies, information, incidents, twi history, and the rose-colored glasses were finally taken off. I had been manipulated and deceived and extorted. Today, twi is a shell of its former self..........in size and content. The masses of youth (ages 18 - 28) are a drop in the bucket when it comes to fiery, full-bore commitment. Imo, the machinery of twi and its money ($48 million in assets) is what drives the production of interests. The staff have vested interests. Thanks, GreaseSpot. Thanks Pawtucket. Heck, I think I'll have another drink.

To revisit veepee's article.........to me, comes across as KNOW-IT-ALL and DEMEANING. It adds very little to my Christian faith......it's judgemental and bullying from the get-go when stating, "Any religious leader with an ounce of brains knows, as anyone else can if he wants to, that Jesus Christ was not born on December 25." Thanks Oldies for bringing this forward. Makes me SO THANKFUL that I exited that outfit........and found my way back to the Light of Life, my Lord and Savior. Yeah, veepee could market a product.......but couldn't sustain a Christian walk.

Welcome, I Love Bagpipes When I exited twi some eight years ago, the corps were being instructed to NOT have sweet, tender fellowship with those in their branch. According to lcm-mandates, the corps were NOT to engage in social activity (ie.....movies, fun get-togethers, dinner invites) with "those whom they were leading"........but were to keep a protocol and distance. LCM wanted us to draw a line in the sand on this issue. Gee......for us full-time corps, he imposed paycuts, no pets, no gifts (bribes??), no pregnancy without bot permission, time management schedules, unwarranted confrontation sessions, etc. etc. AND NOW HE WAS IMPOSING DIRECTIVES ON OUR FELLOWSHIP TIME WITH OTHERS !!! Where was it going to stop? Yeah........you're right, DEEP DISCONTENT is/was not INTENSE ENOUGH. Perhaps, rosalie has lightened up on these "keep-your-distance corps directives".........but the elitist attitude remains. Twi has built this CASTE SYSTEM......brick by brick, corps meeting after corps meeting. And, wierewille was twi's ultimate ELITIST. IMO, the decades of twi bureaucracy have layered distance and discontent and disdain with twi's leadership and that gangrene has, now, manifested itself on the field. So yeah.......one can feel empty, barren and lonely even in the midst of an organization. There are SO MANY breakdowns in twi......on the spiritual, mental and emotional levels that it takes a board like Greasespot Cafe to expose them.. :) Congratulations on posting here. Insightful stuff. Always nice to hear from those who recently left.

When I think back to my own deep discontent....... I was dissatisfied with twi's policies and hypocrisy......and NO CHANGE was anywhere in sight. All the reasons for my involvement with twi had morphed into THEIR agendas, not mine. In the end, all I could see was.....TWI LORDING OVER GOD'S HERITAGE.

Nanon said....."That deep discontent in TWI is the same discontent i had before i left. I was trying. That just got old. It wasn't working, so i left." To me, the basic common denominator for this deep discontent was TWI LEGALISM. Twi legalism was attempting to trumph the grace of God in my life. Twi legalism of buzzwords and inuendos was continuously encroaching on my thought life. Twi legalism was trying to steal my fellowship with my Lord. Twi legalism was oppressing my individuality as a member in the One Body. Twi legalism was choking the life and liberty that God had called me to. Wierwillian agendas were present in the early 70s.......just more suble. Martindale agendas took spiritual bullying to a whole new level. Rivenbark agendas have reverted back to the more suble form. But the deep discontent is STILL THERE.........because legalism is STILL THERE.

Oldies, When I read accounts of the first-century believers......I see SNAPSHOTS of a man's ministry, SNAPSHOTS of deliverance, SNAPSHOTS of a short period of time (like a WOW year????).......NOT A LIFETIME OF SERVICE TO A JERUSALEM CORPORATION. Even Philip the evangelist (in Acts 8) had his moments of a "ministry on fire"......and preached the gospel, but later settled in Caesarea. What all his life entailed in Caesarea, the scriptures are silent. Years and years pass.........THEN (in Acts 21:8ff) when Paul is in Caesarea and enters into the house of Philip the evangelist (yes, he is still noted as AN EVANGELIST) Philips FOUR DAUGHTERS prophesied that Paul not go up to Jerusalem. Point being.........Philip STAYED YEARS AND YEARS IN CAESAREA and raised his family. Now, we could speculate all we want about his priorities, his loyalties, his lifestyle, etc............ Isn't it amazing what twi EMPHASIZES.........and what twi IGNORES. Philip stayed put in Caesarea and was living in the grace of God. :D

Belle, When I worked on staff at hq......THAT EXPERIENCE validated and raised my growing discontent with twi's bureacratic policies, departmental squabbling, in-house politics and backstabbling, with ego and hypocrisy runnin' the show. Perhaps, your ex will see the same. Seems like this debt/mortgage issue is becoming a REAL ISSUE (sore spot) to corps grads that see the wisdom in owning their home and building equity. BUT.......the fact that this "wisdom" is negated by twi and eliminates them from coordinating home fellowships and attending advanced class functions is ridiculous, and they know it. Twi has NOT come up with any solid "research" or backing of this debt/mortgage issue......but rather, just revisits out-of-context verses and such to prop up their debt policy. Plus.......the most qualified to teach and lead the local work and overrun by the bozos who rent and live from paycheck to paycheck. The renters and, in many cases, the singles are given the nod to lead the others into the ways of "godliness." In terms of one innie......."it's insulting." The brown-nosers are working their way into the front of the pack........and the solid, family-focused corps alumni are taking a back seat. And, who could blame them?? The seeds of discontent are growing on the field. It's very evident.

In the past two months, my path has crossed three innies........and I gotta tell ya, they can't hide their embarrassment and frustrations of twi any longer. Two of the three were corps grads, but have relinquished that status (per lcm-mandates) and are now residing in the "corps alumni" classification in twi's caste system. Why aren't they full-bore corps anymore?? Because.........they (and spouse) see the spiritual and financial suicide of moving every few years to accommodate twi's barking orders. To them, family, home ownership and a progressive career are fundamental elements to establish strength. Duh???? In my opinion, these corps grads already have LEFT TWI......THEY JUST DON'T KNOW IT, YET. :D Eight years ago, I too was struggling with the glaring inconsistencies of twi policies. I could see the chasm widening between twi-mandates and true Christianity. And, none of the "good-ole-days" or "friends" or "sweet local fellowship" strongholds could withstand the board of trustee blunders, backstabbing, or blackmail. I simply KNEW TOO MUCH.........and there was no going back to innocent-ville. Imo, there is deep discontent within twi's walls of isolation.......and it ain't going away anytime soon. :P

As I recall, vpw did not claim "heavy revy" on the martindale choice.......but then again, the IMAGERY OF THE TRANSFERRING OF THE MANTLE was dripping with symbolism of the Elijah/Elisha transfer of power and the double portion to follow!! Haven't read that Elijah/Elisha account in quite some time......but imo, its a center reference to this discussion since the mantle and oil and prophecy was ceremoniously portrayed and videotaped for the household of The Way. Wierwille had a very suble manner of portraying imagery while NOT CLAIMING IT AS REVELATION.

Gee......when I think about the early 70s and the buzz of excitement to hang with other youthful believers and see the power of God in operation, it sure is a FAR STRETCH from the twi organization of today. Back then, we were spontanious, fun-loving, easy-going, non-legalistic, and expecting God to work miracles in daily life. We didn't have corps grads mandating policy, or brow-beating our efforts. It was just growth from within without compulsion. Christ-in-us RULED! The religious legalism that engulfs twi today will NOT allow true believers to be headed by Christ. Twi policies on comformity, on modified-accepted behavior, on finances and mortgages, etc.....OVERRIDE the free-wheeling spirit of individualism to walk the church epistle walk!!! Thousands of us youth brought our enthusiasm, and energy, and resources, and friends to learn and grow with us in God's grace. With grace far-removed from twi's borders, why would the youth want to stay in the confines of something contrary to God's Word? If there are some twi youth who think they can "change twi from within"......it begs the question, change it in to what???

In my 24 years with twi, I can't recall ANY peer youth "making a difference in twi." Sure, I heard the stuff about the guitar-playing Donnie Fxgit and how his boldness impacted back-to-back pfal classes in Kansas.......BUT at the same time, I don't recall him EFFECTING CHANGE from within. The lcm-seduced crowd.....ruppy, hornxy, spaghetti, mcfading, and others are NOT going to allow any snot-nosed kid to change the course of twi. After all, these men have invested decades into this outfit and, NOW, they have "positions of authority." By God, they deserve to sit there. They deserve to be heard. And, they are going to take their "rightful place" even if everyone abandons the ship. There's just something about ARROGANCE that blinds the mind to initiate change. There's just something about PRIDE that blinds following the commandments of God. There's just something about INTOXICATING SELF-IMPORTANCE that overrides all else. It's not about change...........it's about THEM and the ADULATION THEY SO CRAVE.

Hopefully, the youth that have been in twi their WHOLE lives will be awakened from their stupor and see the manipulation mongers! They might start to see thru the facade IF they converse with their college peers, their professors and course work. It could happen!! Yeah......noble and valiant were we (??????......sheeesh) to stand with twi after the "fog years" and against those who stole pfal. The manipulation just went more subtle, more devious. Veepee......called 'em cop-outs. Lcm...........called 'em greasespots and sticks. Both men used labels and manipulation to "circle the wagons." These youth who want to get back to vpw's ministry KNOW NOT WHEREOF THEY SPEAK.

ex, I thought the same thing. Many of us spent years of our lives trying to effect "positive change from within"........and now, lots of lcm-wannabes have risen up in the ranks. And, THEY HAVE NO PLANS ON LEAVING. :D :D With the likes of Rupp, and Hxrney, and Spaghetti, and others.....the lcm dogma is not going to be leaving the cornfield cult anytime soon. These guys would quote lcm more than scripture.......they have been programmed to think, act, confront, micromanage, and intimidate just like lcm. Even rosalie hasn't changed the complexion of twi in her rulership. The need for micromanaging is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

Yeah......what ya'll said. :D When I took pfal, I was 19 years old.......and three months later, when veepee came to our area for a statewide meeting, I was really unimpressed by him. He was NOT the reason for my staying in twi..... that's for sure!!! Back in the early 70s, there was soooooo little structure. We had nights of "hanging together" and someone would feel inspired to teach for 15 minutes. There was SO MUCH GENUINE, GODLY LOVE happening that it was one of the biggest reasons for getting together. Hours passed and midnight would roll around before we even knew it.......and we'd have to part, only excited to be together THE NEXT NIGHT. We did NOT need twi leadership to dictate how many times we should have fellowship. We did NOT need twi leadership to tell us to go witnessing. We did NOT need twi leadership to plan our outings. Heck, I think we would have done RIGHT FINE without twi leadership altogether. Yes......there were "good ole days." But to me, this all hinged on the local believers who walked with the power of God and lived love to the max. The good ole days has NOTHING to do with twi headquarters and its pontificating and it buildings. Sheeeeesh.........it was believers in the ONE BODY that made each day sing with wonderful blessings. Today, I cannot imagine why the young folk stick around at all. Once getting out of high school.......if it were me, I'D BE GONE. :D :D

Twi's youth are leaving and venturing away from the confines of their parents' small wayworld. It seems, when high school comes to an end......these youthful grads of twi's classes are NOW ready to break away and move on with their lives. I do not know how many return to these "way roots," but from the dismal numbers in twi's organization I seriously doubt that many return. Few want to go Way Disciple. Very few want to go Way Corps. Without the next generation to support twi, it won't be long before the whole group (2200 ?) is bordering on the retirement age.......and the Singing Ladies of the Way sit in chairs to sing. From what I've heard, it sounds like the corps and staff kids are the FIRST TO SPLIT OUT. Maybe they see the hypocrisy first-hand, they are most likely ready to fly the coop. And, who could blame them? CORPS KIDS DO NOT WANT TO GO CORPS. After all, this "way thing" is their parents' "way of living,"..........NOT THEIRS. The youth of today are internet savvy and want to freedom to roam. Twi is way too confining and has evolved into a hierarchy of confrontational know-it-alls. The grass is definitely GREENER far way from wierwille road and hiway 29. :D

igotout, Yeah.......twi can NO LONGER hide behind a facade of "prominant importance." I pulled out my clergy file the other day......and its AMAZING to see how few are still supportive of the twi propaganda. So many exited their doors in the 80s......dozens who exited before veepee's death and the onslaught of the lcm regime. I firmly believe that lcm accelerated the exiting process.....BUT THIS EXODUS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN SPITE OF LCM'S BLUNDERS. In a word.....twi SUCKS. As a bureaucratic behemoth, it sucks the time, resources, relationships, ad infinitum from its followers.......and consequently, through the process of living life one awakens to the reality of it all. Twi takes and takes........and takes some more. Twi, at its corporate headquarters, is an abyss of arrogance and idolatry. Twi's rhetoric is falling on DEAF EARS.......even the long-standing innies are awakened to the hypocrisy as the field reporting is so dismal. Very few results......very few want this cultish climate moving into their lives and consuming them. It sure ain't the early 70s any more!!! Twi is stuck in their "present truth of denial"........they can't go back to their propped-up past ptooie and they can't seem to advance forward into their fleeting future. The days of cult-dom have been bludgeoned by the internet. Life outside the walls of twi is REALLY, REALLY GOOD. skyrider

My middle finger is still in good STANDING......towards twi. :) :)

Yeah....NOT what I was 'taught' they were. Everything was NOT okay "at the way."

Absolutely!! When I said that "hq represented a destination for yearly reuinions/sweet fellowship with our peers"...... I certainly wasn't talking about the manicured lawns, the polished brass or the fountain area. --> Living, breathing people.....our peers, who walked in the love and grace of God....were THE REASON TO MAKE THE JOURNEY and arrive at the destination, at hq for the roa. Ala, you and I know THAT all too well. :)-->

Good question, ala. Good question. :)-->

Ala, Yeah.....with each passing year, twi has become more ANAL on details and neglecting the people. There was a time, back in 1974-1984, when hq represented a "destination for yearly reunions/sweet fellowship with our peers. And, yet now.....the structure, the system is idolized. I think THE TAIL.....is wagging the dog!!! :D--> :D-->

All of this is very interesting.... Twi honors victor paul wierwille and lauds his work to the skies......YET, they blatantly disregard the family funeral service of "the first lady of the way international." In vpw's latter days....he demanded that the board of trustees take care of Mrs. Wierwille and "God help them if they forsook this responsibility." And yet, esteeming vp's work on one hand, TWI REFUSED TO UPHOLD VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE'S WORDS. The irony of it all.

igotout, Yeah....rosalie's manicured property, thanks to twi grounds department, way builders, way go-fers, safety department, housekeeping and others. Surely, rosalie has declared all these services and tax-free perks with the IRS ?