skyrider

You mean like.........Loy's Boys and Toys

A more accurate title for vpw would be......Father of Branch Wierwillians With this title, three aspects could be enhanced in such an entitlement: (1) Veepee fathered the movement (2) Veepee's beloved "way tree"concept is held intact (3) Veepee's name and geneology is front and center It certainly is more appropriate than.......Father of The Word. Veepee was no founder, or father of "The Word." Veepee plagerized others to even start his work. Veepee pulled verses out of context to emphasize points and disguise others. What year did this ABSURD..."father of the word" title grow legs in wayworld? I seem to recall it coming out on a corps night in 1980 or thereabouts? Anyone know? Heck, wasn't it enough to swallow vp's self-endorsed title from pfal......."The Teacher." (???) And later......"Man of God for Our Day and Time." Now, some ten years later.........THE IDOLATRY IN TWI is ripened to the point of calling their founder, "Father of The Word." What next???........"Father of All Great Enlightenment"..... or "Most Wonderful Counselor and Mediator." Wierwille ALLOWED this idolatry to walk thru twi. In all my years in twi, I never once heard him publically renounce this adulation, this idolatry. Guess I just expected more from "The Teacher".......who had "The revelation from God"........to teach "The Word"......like it hasn't been taught since "The First Century"......and "The Man of God".......would pass "The Mantle"........to "The Right Reverend LC Martindale".......which would help to establish "The Rightly-Divided Word"........in "The Way Ministry".......as "The True Household".......and move us into "The Promised Land".......of "The Prevailing Word."

HCW........so true, so very true. ABnormal...........obsessive...........controlling...........micromanaging...... .....cultish............all, and more, of these words help others see beyond the whitewashing. Those who've stayed in this elitist system of spiritualistic cliches........are waybrained and fail to see that twi propounds an illogic premise equivolent to "the earth is flat." In one's youth, and small world.....this premise is fairly meaningless to question. BUT.......as ONE JOURNEYS THROUGH LIFE and broadens his/her horizons, it becomes apparent that the earth is NOT flat.......and more so, those who propounded this illogic cannot and should not be trusted. And, for twi to start promoting themselves as "a church"..........WOWSERS, in the early 80s to use twi and church in the same sentence was a mortal sin. Un-friggin-believable.

Thanks Oakspear and WordWolf.... Challenging and DISMANTLING wierwille's statements in pfal is so needful.........since so many of us have heard the drumming in our ears for decades. It's good to knock out some of those bricks.....

bliss, Only on the shirt...........it clearly was NOT the focus or drive of corps training. None of the five corps objectives have Christ at the center........or the fringes. In fact, the corps objectives are more like business mission statements. Merry Christmas ! :)

igotout, Thanks for posting that pic. It's quite telling to look at that.......OLD CORPS LOGO. Christ is the center of the five-pointed star.......with the bible, horn of plenty, candle, running foot and dove (holy spirit) to represent aspects of the five corps objectives. Later, in about 1980 or 1981 (anyone remember?)......Chrxstopher Broxks and a couple other 6th corps guys put forth a new corps logo, with a pentagon and the five gift ministries. Christ was removed from the center......and the five gift ministries bordered the logo. So......faithful stewards in an ever-changing organization??????? I don't think so. Or......faithful stewards in a corrupt, abusive cult???? My bible says to FLEE from all appearance of evil let alone staying in the midst of evil.

No thanks...............it's NOT time..........and NEVER will be. ......"those boys"..... ......and madam Spook herself Life is FAR TOO GOOD........to even give that a passing thought.

WhiteDove, The Corps Vet shirts were sold in The Way International's Bookstore around 1980 & 1981. The reason why I remember this.......is because I was on staff at hq and bought one. These corps vet shirts were talked about during one of lcm's lunch announcements and he encouraged the corps-staff to purchase them......thus, promoting the corps program. As I understood it........the corps vet shirt was presented in much the same way as the wow vet shirt. In other words, after the wow year......you continue to learn and grow and apply what you learned on the wow field. So, it was with the corps vet.........you were to continue to learn and grow and apply what you learned in the corps training. But really......this corps vet shirt didn't stay in twi's bookstore very long. I tend to think that most corps didn't desire to add ANOTHER corps promo-shirt once corps grads on the field were off-and-running in life and careers. And besides, the corps vet shirt was that awful green color..........uuuugh. I will put this on the "Twi's Manipulation by Inference" thread as well.

WhiteDove, The Corps Vet shirts were sold in The Way International's Bookstore around 1980 & 1981. The reason why I remember this.......is because I was on staff at hq and bought one. These corps vet shirts were talked about during one of lcm's lunch announcements and he encouraged the corps-staff to purchase them......thus, promoting the corps program. As I understood it........the corps vet shirt was presented in much the same way as the wow vet shirt. In other words, after the wow year......you continue to learn and grow and apply what you learned on the wow field. So, it was with the corps vet.........you were to continue to learn and grow and apply what you learned in the corps training. But really......this corps vet shirt didn't stay in twi's bookstore very long. I tend to think that most corps didn't desire to add ANOTHER corps promo-shirt once corps grads on the field were off-and-running in life and careers. And besides, the corps vet shirt was that awful green color..........uuuugh. :) I will put this on the "Twi's Manipulation by Inference" thread as well.

justloafing, Yeah......times drastically changed when martindale grabbed the presidency by the horns. His bullying approach escalated year after year......until cgeer barked his pop paper and brought lcm to his knees in 1986/87. Justloafing, your corps training must have been quite a rough ride? Obviously, those few years......from the 7th - 10th corps......twi was adjusting to the LARGE MASSES of corps applicants and trying to establish their footing and terminology. But yeah........for several years, it was publically noted that the corps program was to train twig coordinators, business and professional leaders to go forth in areas of concern, interest and need. Also......vpw was very lenient to corps with military aspirations. Those military corps were extended lots of exceptions throughout corps training. Today........WHO'D WANT TO BE A CORPS APPLICANT WHEN "THE CORPS DIRECTOR" WAS OUSTED FOR ILLICIT AND PREDATORY BEHAVIOR? Obviously........................................not many.

Per WhiteDove: (from the "Seen This?" thread) Yeah, WhiteDove......in so many instances, what twi put in print and what actually happened in real life events was miles and miles apart. Heck, I even thought.....at one time......that The Way was indicative of "the way--the lord Jesus Christ" in John 14:6. Boy, was I wrong.

Thanks jkboehme.......yeah, twi said one thing but implied something quite different. Thanks igotout..... By the time the 10th corps, and that video presentation of the fictional corps guy made the circuit........the terminology and brochures were beefed up abit. The emphasis was changing and twi was putting more teeth into "once corps always corps MEANT to take on assignments for twi year after year." And again.......NOW that twi has pulled the curtain back on THEIR DEMAND TO HAVE SERVITUDE FROM A CORPS PERSON FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.......... ...........LOOK AT HOW THE NUMBERS HAVE DROPPED. :D Very, very few want THAT kind of religion.

Thanks Belle...... One of my points to WhiteDove was.......that all around me, everywhere I looked.......corps grads were serving God in all walks of life. Many corps that I knew set their own agendas, their OWN future plans. In fact, if some corps didn't want an assignment.........his/her status was noted as corps grad. Remember that? That was a twi-classification.......for a period of time. To me.........."A Lifetime of Christian service" meant........."a lifetime of Christian service (to God)." So.....when WhiteDove responded with....."If you were too challenged to get this sorry maybe the program was not for you anyway."......it must be a case of manipulation by inference. Some obviously insert "the way international headquarters" for the plainly written "Christian service." Gee.....I was only going by their brochure........where.......It Is Written.

On another thread, WhiteDove and I were discussing aspects of the corps brochure and program.........and really, this topic deserves it's own thread. Sorry Belle.....for the off-topic discussion on your thread. Anyways........this topic is a classic example of Twi Manipulation by Inference. In some of those cult awareness books, there is a specific name for this. Thus, I wanted to illustrate my point by starting this thread. Here is some of the discussion that took place on the "Seen This?" thread. Skyrider wrote: When I signed up for "twig coordinator training" via the corps program.......it was NOT WRITTEN DOWN ANYWHERE that this was to be a lifetime of twi service?? NOT ONE PIECE OF LITERATURE.....NOT ONE OF THE LCM PROMOTIONS MADE THIS PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE. Only after several months was this mentioned in a closed-corps, full-bore meeting.........a seductive measure, for sure. ************ WhiteDove showed a brochure with a title about "A Lifetime of Christian Service." ************ WhiteDove responded to Rascal: Sky said it was not- It was- on the front of the Corps brochure and other places. If you were too challenged to get this sorry maybe the program was not for you anyway. If you were awake at some point during your apprentice year you would have gotten this I'd think. ************* Insert>>>>See, this is a classic example of Twi Manipulation by Inference. The early corps brochures were vague generalities of Christian service.......in areas of concern, interest and need. Those early corps brochures didn't detail any specifics about weekly corps meeting attendance for a lifetime, or filling out witnessing reports, time analysis sheets, financial reporting, yearly corps interviews and assignments. The micro-managing of the corps took on "A LIFE OF ITS OWN." Later in our discussion, skyrider wrote: Gee.....so many areas of inference and double-speak..... Just like all the programs, wows, college wows, university of life, corps training..........definitions changed, expectations changed, terminology changed, leadership changed, campuses changed, "revelation" changed. In fact, there was a time when a few teachings at Emporia ENCOURAGED CORPS GRADS TO BECOME BUSINESSMEN AND BE THE FIRST TO DONATE ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO TWI. Anyone remember that???? Several of the 7th corps had plans to do this........upon graduation, start and run a successful business. It was all in that "Word in Culture" movement that was sweeping thru the ministry. Heck, there were musicians, and artists, and cartoonists, and painters, etc.........all with FUTURE PLANS. There was NO WEEKLY CORPS MEETINGS AFTER GRADUATION at this time. Once graduated, the corps was given full rein of his hearts' desires.....to glorify God. Of course, limb coordinator types were brought back to hq after three or four years for retraining......but the majority moved in other directions with their lives. The military corps and the major "celebrities" were given free license to follow their careers... It was accepted policy. And, even back then.......'76 - '79 (???)....there were no definite policies. But then, twi put together that promotion of some fictional corps guy (a way productions actor) who had his heart set on serving as a corps grad for life. I think his name was Dan XXXXX (something).....this video helped to instill the NEW POLICY......TO SERVE WITH/FOR TWI A LIFETIME. But again........depending on where you were, what teachings you sat in, what leadership you had, what ideals they promoted, etc........everyone's experience was different. No two people saw the same twi. And, veepee's scam to "the sunset corps" and elders........TO BUILD A HOME AT CAMP GUNNISON AND WHEN THEY DIE, THE HOME BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF TWI. Yeah.........another wrinkle in the ongoing changes of twi. Was there any takers? Not one! Lots more.....but I gotta go. You know, WhiteDove........I hear what you are saying. Really I do. But......"primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also many have a more abundant life." Yeah, I want to help people. Yeah, I could see myself serving in an area of concern, interest and need. Some CORPS........were serving in a military capacity for Uncle Sam. Some CORPS........were serving in a business sector to help others. Some CORPS........were serving full-time for twi. Some CORPS........were serving on college campuses, as they chose to get more education. Some CORPS........were serving and overseeing WOW Branches in an Outreach City. Some CORPS........were serving God by raising a quiver-full of kids and helping neighbors. Some CORPS........were serving by singing, writing, acting, playing in orchestras, etc. Some CORPS........were serving in flight services at hq or American Airlines or wherever. Some CORPS........married non-corps and, together, they were both stronger to serve in love. I distinctly remember a time in twi history when "Word in Culture" principles were dictating the over-all concepts of twi. In 1982, VPW was presented with a special book written by top leadership, at his 40th Anniversary as President. The three areas of this book displayed the unique full-range of serving God's Word on a silver platter in all walks of life.......or something like that. BUT.......when "the corps director" took the reins of "the presidency"........the fascist elements of legalism started gripping twi. LCM wanted to prove his leadership dominance and outdistance wierwille's foundation.......and the encroachment of legalism picked up its pace. Corps promotions changed. Brochures changed. And.......year after year, the inresidence corps numbers dwindled BECAUSE NOW IT WAS PROMOTED AS A LIFETIME OF TWI SERVICE WITH YEARLY CORPS INTERVIEWS AND ASSIGNMENTS. After the 17th Corps.........and fog year fiasco.......the corps numbers really dropped off. Today, what is there.........maybe 13 - 18 inresidence corps? Nothing like LEGALISM to kill a heart of giving and service.

Very well said, Belle. :) That's exactly the way it was presented to me. The brochures simply talked about a lifetime of Christian service to God.............so, what the heck, I love God. Why not learn a few things? You know, WhiteDove........I hear what you are saying. Really I do. But......"primary goal will be to help people to get blessed so others also many have a more abundant life." Yeah, I want to help people. Yeah, I could see myself serving in an area of concern, interest and need. Some CORPS........were serving in a military capacity for Uncle Sam. Some CORPS........were serving in a business sector to help others. Some CORPS........were serving full-time for twi. Some CORPS........were serving on college campuses, as they chose to get more education. Some CORPS........were serving and overseeing WOW Branches in an Outreach City. Some CORPS........were serving God by raising a quiver-full of kids and helping neighbors. Some CORPS........were serving by singing, writing, acting, playing in orchestras, etc. Some CORPS........were serving in flight services at hq or American Airlines or wherever. Some CORPS........married non-corps and, together, they were both stronger to serve in love. I distinctly remember a time in twi history when "Word in Culture" principles were dictating the over-all concepts of twi. In 1982, VPW was presented with a special book written by top leadership, at his 40th Anniversary as President. The three areas of this book displayed the unique full-range of serving God's Word on a silver platter in all walks of life.......or something like that. BUT.......when "the corps director" took the reins of "the presidency"........the fascist elements of legalism started gripping twi. LCM wanted to prove his leadership dominance and outdistance wierwille's foundation.......and the encroachment of legalism picked up its pace. Corps promotions changed. Brochures changed. And.......year after year, the inresidence corps numbers dwindled BECAUSE NOW IT WAS PROMOTED AS A LIFETIME OF TWI SERVICE WITH YEARLY CORPS INTERVIEWS AND ASSIGNMENTS. After the 17th Corps.........and fog year fiasco.......the corps numbers really dropped off. Today, what is there.........maybe 13 - 18 inresidence corps? Nothing like LEGALISM to kill a heart of giving and service.

Per WordWolf: Yeah........I remember that! I bought one of those "corps vet" shirts........and wore it alot. But then, like so many other things......it was "out of sync" with the changes. And, I shelved mine. Plus......after graduation, many corps CHOOSE their location and bought a home.....like igotout. And, coming to Corps Week was a time of reunion........to reconnect and all. And, those couple of years where people sold their wares at roa in the Word in Culture tent.....or whatever it was called. All kinds of things were sold by corps and noncorps alike. Just a totally different set of policies and expectations.

WOW, where to start on this topic? Gee.....so many areas of inference and double-speak..... Just like all the programs, wows, college wows, university of life, corps training..........definitions changed, expectations changed, terminology changed, leadership changed, campuses changed, "revelation" changed. In fact, there was a time when a few teachings at Emporia ENCOURAGED CORPS GRADS TO BECOME BUSINESSMEN AND BE THE FIRST TO DONATE ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO TWI. Anyone remember that???? Several of the 7th corps had plans to do this........upon graduation, start and run a successful business. It was all in that "Word in Culture" movement that was sweeping thru the ministry. Heck, there were musicians, and artists, and cartoonists, and painters, etc.........all with FUTURE PLANS. There was NO WEEKLY CORPS MEETINGS AFTER GRADUATION at this time. Once graduated, the corps was given full rein of his hearts' desires.....to glorify God. Of course, limb coordinator types were brought back to hq after three or four years for retraining......but the majority moved in other directions with their lives. The military corps and the major "celebrities" were given free license to follow their careers... It was accepted policy. And, even back then.......'76 - '79 (???)....there were no definite policies. But then, twi put together that promotion of some fictional corps guy (a way productions actor) who had his heart set on serving as a corps grad for life. I think his name was Dan XXXXX (something).....this video helped to instill the NEW POLICY......TO SERVE WITH/FOR TWI A LIFETIME. But again........depending on where you were, what teachings you sat in, what leadership you had, what ideals they promoted, etc........everyone's experience was different. No two people saw the same twi. And, veepee's scam to "the sunset corps" and elders........TO BUILD A HOME AT CAMP GUNNISON AND WHEN THEY DIE, THE HOME BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF TWI. Yeah.........another wrinkle in the ongoing changes of twi. Was there any takers? Not one! Lots more.....but I gotta go.

igotout, Thanks for starting this thread......and highlighting Waydale. Those were dynamic times when Waydale opened its doors! I was immersed in the posting (under another name) and had several phone conversations with Paul. These two brave souls took on the way international and went toe-to-toe with the trustees.........and WON. I wish them all the very best in life. Today, GreaseSpot is here to carry the torch. Thanks Paw.

Per WhiteDove: Hmmmmmm........."not written down".........not anywhere? When I signed up for "twig coordinator training" via the corps program.......it was NOT WRITTEN DOWN ANYWHERE that this was to be a lifetime of twi service?? NOT ONE PIECE OF LITERATURE.....NOT ONE OF THE LCM PROMOTIONS MADE THIS PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE. Only after several months was this mentioned in a closed-corps, full-bore meeting.........a seductive measure, for sure. Inference AND implications were always A BIG PART of twi's manipulation. Isn't it obvious???

Uh, Oldies........don't you mean "veepee spin?" All of the above references were from your beloved, heavily-implicated, hand-fits-in-money-pocket, plagerizing piffle class and idolatrous worship of veepee. Trying to sidestep the obvious??.............nice try.

Per Oldies: How many times does veepee ELABORATE on his years of questing to "find God's power?" The trip to Tulsa, and to FINALLY SPEAK IN TONGUES.....ohhhhhh, to finally KNOW that he was heaven-bound and all hell couldn't stop him from going. Remember this? Veepee searched the country for someone who could LEAD HIM (or prove to him) into this holy spirit power. Didn't wierwille even doubt his salvation throughout this period of time. I think so......and he was ready to "chuck the whole thing" if he couldn't find it. The lead-up in Session 12........the verses that showed when people were saved, they spoke in tongues. Nobody got missed, right? You wanna be pleasing to God, I know you do? Now, just put your Bible aside and in the next few minutes, you too will be speaking the wonderful works of God. Class coordinators were to meet with ANYONE who didn't speak in tongues. Nobody gets missed......or, the class coordinator somehow screwed up. Yeah.......corps were pressured on this one. Heavy, heavy implication............IF SOMEONE DIDN'T SPEAK IN TONGUES, THEN HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THEY HAVE ARE REALLY SAVED? The granddaddy exclamation point in pfal, the chewy caramel dessert with a cherry on top, the know that you know that you know HEAVILY IMPLICATED BUILD-UP FROM SESSION 9 - 12...........was to speak in tongues assuring salvation. After 33-hours of scripture buildup and the first century church believers, the ALL-IMPORTANT CONCLUSION TO THE MATTER was that every student MUST speak in tongues. God does HIS job.....and HE WANTS YOU TO KNOW THAT YOU'RE A CHILD OF HIS.....and the early christians did it........and, its still the grace administration........and it's still available. NOBODY GETS MISSED........sound like a requirement to me?

jkboehme, I agree with this exit-phobia continuum. For me, it all resided on the low-end......factoring into my decisions and all. To me, my God would not abandon me and allow the devil to rough-shod his way thru my life. Just couldn't buy into that devil-will-kill-you manipulation. I just didn't believe that for one-new-york-minute. Probably, more than anything........my youth and competitiveness were MAJOR PLAYERS in why I continued to stay with twi despite the red flags. And, while on the field........I did continue to see prayers answered and three or four miracles. Yes, instantaneous healings. Of course, all of this was IN SPITE OF twi's manipulation and shenanigans. BUT.......as years roll by.......and I gain more access to information, and cover-ups........I KNEW, FOR ME, IT WAS TIME TO EXIT TWI. No more trying to "build a fortress with rotten lumber." No more faxing reports to twi leadership in "this paper blizzard of reporting back." No more trying to salvage "a ministry with lusting lords in leadership." I was empowered to WALK AWAY FROM TWI.......and never look back. And, the loss of "friends".........yeah, right. Co-workers, maybe. Comaraderie and all........but NOT friends. And, eight years later........I vividly see twi's continual spiral DOWNWARD. :)

In the advanced class.......CANCER was devil spirit possession. Victor Paul Wierwille died of CANCER........therein, according to twi doctrine, veepee was POSSESSED. Thus, twi's president and founder......let "ONE OF THE BIG BOYS" in. Incidentally, after vp's death in 1985......I rarely heard anymore about the "Cancer Spirit." :blink: :blink:

Yeah Belle......it does feel good to help others with genuine concern. And, imagine........we have YEARS ahead of us to keep doing just that! No hidden agendas, no quotas to fill, no classes to promote for some self-serving outfit, no vein-popping confrontations, no deceptions. Yeah.......LIFE is good. :)

AMEN, Belle.... Our experience speaks volumes to scores of people. And, our bullshxx detector is able to help others in all walks of life. Besides........at last count, I think I've helped about 60 people exit twi's deceptive doctrines. I quit counting about two years ago.