skyrider

As "promised-land settlers".........those staffers at hq are PREVAILING every day by getting to work on time and keeping devil spirits from infiltrating their work space and wierwille property. It ain't easy but someone's got to go it. Besides the 3-minute commute from Trailer #12 to the OSC, and breakfast served at 7 am........one has to manuever the hallways and bathrooms and "be in fellowship" upon arrival of their desk chair. Prevailing......is a thought-by-thought process over eeevil. Added fellowships or expansion results comes much later.....after dominance of self. In cult world...........being self-centered IS the roadmap to prevailing.

tonto, Vaguely, what comes to mind on this forbidden research........are topics that deal with "Jesus Christ our promised seed" and the "Bethlehem star." But someone else might be able to chime in on this one. But unmistakeably.......I remember the adamancy of "it's vp & me OR the highway" approach to the whole class. Those three 8th corps guys were confident in their reseach......and, from what I heard, refused to back down from their independent work. I think these guys split out after this ordeal. In hindsight, I see how situations like this "peppered the outbursts" with lots of flavored speech. It should have spoke volumes to my head, but apparently not in those youthful days. I just discarded it and moved on. Surely, those like catcup and others could weigh in on this discussion.

tonto......craig's scathing lecture at that class was "over the top." I, too, was there. Just to give you a little background perspective, this 1978 advanced class followed on the heels of a situation that involved three 8th corps guys who went on a tangent with their own research. Obviously, veepee and lcm were still fuming from the ordeal.......how DARE these corps do independent research and CHALLENGE the way ministry??? This episode had HUGE IMPLICATIONS for years to come. Perhaps others can give you a little more perspective on it......but I thought you'd like to know this background. I learned of it's existence, and it helped me to understand some of the verbose stances that happened at this class. Now......back to your topic at hand.

In many ways, twi's foundational phrase......The Word of God is the Will of God.......is a misnomer, a misapplication of the true essence of the Scriptures. As others have noted, the Word of God contains God's will.......but also contains things that pertain to life and godliness. The Scriptures also declare the workings of the devil and his kingdom.......the froward man, evil workings, seducers waxing worse and worse, etc. Are these "words" and evil workings noted in the Word (the scriptures) God's will? Absolutely not. So, yes......the Word of God houses the will of God. But one must be vigilant of those who break through to steal, kill and destroy what God rightfully wills for His children, His believers. Lest we forget......All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction which is instruction in righteousness [iI Timothy 3:16]. Note: this revealing truth is FAR MORE DETAILED than the misnomer, "the Word of God is the will of God." More later.

rejoice.....last I heard, Tim dropped out of college not too long ago. Don't know the reasons.....nor what he is doing now.

It continues to amaze me that someone would go into a regimented system and "try to fix it." The facts are.......it was designed by victor paul wierwille and is above reproach. To want to "change things" is like wanting to "change the spots on a leopard to stripes." It just ain't gonna happen. Too bad this corps candidate doesn't listen to his/her head..........LOGIC is trying to break through them there waybrain patterns. One of the sweetest girls I know had her heart set on going into the corps after high school.......about four or five years ago. Well, it didn't take long into the program for her to realize that this was NOT what she wanted in her life. She is now in college.

igotout........yeah, a boring, religious ritual for waybrainers. No thanks. And, those staffers........feed their fantasies of "teaching the prevailing word" in a disconnected wayworld. They see devil spirits lurking in the shadows. They label cancer as spirit-possession. They keep themselves isolated, like the Waco-Branch-Davidians, from the devilish world......all the while, boasting that they have taken the word over the world. To continue on this path of disillusionment......will be their fulfilling prophecy.

A constant source of EMBARRASSMENT is right....!!! Are the OSC hallways lined with verses of scripture and/or landscape prints? I mean.....surely, they don't display those wide-angle corps pictures with some 2,200+ corps present. Nor would they bring up the history of nearly 3,000 outgoing WOWs in 1982. With such LOW, PATHETIC NUMBERS.........twi cannot display their past without serious questioning, nor can twi honestly boast of a prevailing work. And, the graduating corps numbers.......being "trained" in a multimillion dollar location outside Gunnison, Colorado.......requires top security clearance to get a straight answer.

According to some innie postings........twi is really trying to change to a "kinder, gentler" version of its former self. Seemingly, the "storming wrath" has passed and rosa-lie and co. are rescinding the "mark & avoid" orders that were a staple threat in the 1990s. Small numbers.......attend twi's sunday teachings in the auditorium (which seats about 1,450). Small numbers.......are in limb after limb, branch after branch. Small numbers.......are the requirement for new classes (how many??......3?). Small numbers = small recognition. It's GOTTA BE tough to keep a straight face......and boast of PREVAILING, when most of twi's auditorium audience is comprised of its staff. :) It's GOTTA BE tough to keep enforcing control.....when more innes are coming to GS and finding out about the lawsuits, atrocities, plagarism, wrong doctrines, etc. It's GOTTA BE tough to gain recognition.......when corps and adv class grads keep EXITING their doors and making preparations for their own future. No wonder twi has revoked the lcm-doctrine of "mark & avoid." The loss of abs is certainly a factor........but so is the "image of prevailing." And, aren't they scratching the foundational class.........with another version?????? Well, at least......they can AGAIN boast of their numbers in this mandatory foundational class.

Hope life is going well for you teknon. :) In finding waydale and greasespot, I TOO had my deep seated doubts confirmed and identified. And, although some remain clueless........more and more are finding out about the deceptions, plagairism, adultery, blatant lies, exploitation, etc. The dark side of twi is exposed for all to see.

.....can I wear blue jeans to their sunday teaching service? .....can I go to the fountain area and not be under linder's survelliance? .....can I meet with their directors and explain the reasons why I left? .....can I expect twi leadership to erase all of martindale's slanderings? .....can I sporadically come and go like other churches allow? .....will my "m&a" status be removed? You know....I have a hard time believing this "kinder, gentler" schpeel.....BECAUSE about six weeks ago I ran into an innie and he fumbled all over himself trying to avoid me. It is obvious that there continues to be a double standard in twi. WHAT THEY MIGHT SAY......is......NOT WHAT THEY DO. Martindale has been gone (oh really???) for over FIVE YEARS......and the forehead's policies are still cemented in place. Maybe the yelling has stopped......but the manipulation has not. Why the constant gun-totting security? Why the closed books? Why the generic website? Why no explanation of the lawsuits (plural)? Why no office in place to handle abuse and mistreatment? If twi is like "any other church"...........then, when was the last time you drove past a church and were closely followed by a paranoid, gun-carrying security patrol? Where is the warm welcome?

mark, I totally agree........any twi apology would be meaningless to me. My heavenly Father knows my heart......and my actions throughout my twi tenure. I walked away from twi to uphold my spiritual integrity. I certainly do NOT need twi to endorse THEIR WRONGDOINGS to me. When justice is at hand, twi leadership will be accountable to God Almighty. That suits me just fine.

djs, To me, "healing" is not the issue........but I will say, that having exited twi some eight years ago, I am MORE joyful, peaceful, blessed, thankful, etc. Does that count? :) As far as going back to twi.......................WHY? Why would I possibly even want to go back? I walked away from THEIR legalism. Why would I desire to "test the water for piranha" again? Twi is a small stinky, infested pond. The Bible is an OCEAN OF LIFE. Go back???????? I'd have to be nucking futs!

rascal.....I hear you. :) The foundational class.....namely BG Leonard's work with additions from Stiles, Bullinger, others and marketed to forward vpw's agendas.....in it's infancy, empowered us to walk with God Almighty without compulsion. As youth, we were unified in the bond of spiritual love and grace and truth. The sweet fellowships in my city was far removed from a bureaucratic "headquarters." Those first few years were tender and caring.....prayers were simple, and powerful. BUT........in hindsight, it is clear that the founder, vpw, had secret motives of power and lust in his closet-full of agendas. His WOW program was designed to isolate and redirect allegiances. His corps program was hard-core manipulation and indoctrination....to sell-out to wierwille's way. And, money...money...money greased the machinery of evil. When Wierwille walked away from Jesus Christ......it was night. Wierwille's name is forever soiled.

Answers....... 1) The Law of Believing is THE GREATEST LAW IN THE UNIVERSE 2) No 3) No 4) Doubtful 5) .........NO

Today is a special day for the Branch Wierwillians.......it's veepee's birth date. Many staunch followers of their doctrine will pay homage to their "father in the word." NOT ME. The sect is all but dead.

Thanks, socks.

Wierwille worship is benign (harmless)...???? Hardly.

johniam.....I never really followed Black Sabbath or the origins of heavy metal music. In a round-about way.....you seem to be siding to the TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.....and I would totally agree with you that VPW IS THE FATHER OF BRANCH WIERWILLIANS. I could agree with vpw indoctrinating a sect......and the "father" of it.

johniam, The above statement is LIGHTYEARS AWAY from........the blatant, idolatrous, title-totting, all-inclusive, indoctrinating concept of wierwille as my "father in the word." IMO, twi crossed the line with this title.........and THAT IS WHY IT NEVER GAINED A WHOLE LOT OF MOMENTUM. Top leaders pushed it......but most weren't buying it. And in brief.....when the apostle Paul said, "I have begotten you through the gospel"......God called Paul as an apostle and spokesman TO THE GENTILES IN GOD'S DEFINING AGE OF GRACE. The church epistles document this specific calling time and time again. But hey, johniam........if that "father title" fits like a-hand-in-a-glove in your thinking.......have at it. To me..............no thanks.

johniam, When I see things like......"vpw is your father in the word".......or vp calling the corps, "my kids"....... just doesn't sit right with me. Some verses that come to mind are as follows: I Cor. 1:12,13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? Naming names.....and chest-thumping are contrary to the purposes of God. Let's just bring this up to modern-day terminology, shall we??? Are you of Victor Paul? Was Victor Paul crucified for you? or were you holy spirit baptized in the name of Victor Paul? See what I mean??????????

WOW............this bestiality/porno video was STILL being shown. AMAZING......veepee showed this flick ALL THOSE YEARS.....and prior to his death. NO WONDER.....his gravestone is marked with, "I wish I were the man I knew to be"

johniam, Hmmmmm......so then, my minister (during my teenage years) who taught me truths from Romans and showed me the new birth, and prayed with me, and was a father-figure to me..............he is MY "father in the Word." (??) Well, I guess there is sort of a "spiritual-father-relationship" from my minister......from years ago. And, if I had this type of upbringing.............how many others did as well???? And therefore, THAT is a far cry from a dictated, public endorsement that WIERWILLE IS MY FATHER IN THE WORD (cough, cough) because he hawked a film/vido class. Gee, in the scope of things....... ........maybe wierwille is someone's father in alcoholism ........maybe wierwille is someone's father in betrayal ........maybe wierwille is someone's father in habitual lying ........maybe wierwille is someone's father in adultery ........maybe wierwille is someone's father in marketing scams ........maybe wierwille is someone's father in splinter groups

johniam, According to Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve......vpw took BG Leonard's class on Receiving the holy spirit.....TWO TIMES before running back to Ohio and teaching it as his own foundational class. 1) Vpw sat in BG's class................in March 1953 2) Vpw took Mrs. W. & Don...........in June/July 1953 3) Vpw taught BG's class in Ohio....in October 1953 This first "pfal class" had NO materials, NO syllabus, NO handouts, NO nothing. Yep, your "father IN the word"............STOLE the foundational class. Twi historical photos use this "first class" to illustrate twi's first pfal class. :P Does that make BG Leonard........the "FATHER of the father in the Word" (??)

johniam, Yeah.....that's probably it. It never did take anchor.......except for some of the top leaders, like lcm & cgeer & townsxnd who pushed this mog-worship. That verse is a quantum leap.....to get veepee as "father in the word." Like veepee "fathered" twi in BG Leonard's class, some 50s pop-psychology, some Stiles and Bullinger, some private interpretation.......and SHAZAM, veepee is the 20th Century "father-figure."