skyrider

Or.............does it matter that veepee took B.G. Leonard's material and pawned it off as his own?? And, years later, tweaked it with some Bullinger, some Stiles, some "law of believing" hoopla.....and the end result is tweaked and twacked to death. Holy men of God spake as they were moved by Holy Spirit......no tweaking needed. Had wierwille been a real mog, he would have known that.

Yep........."staying and ignoring." I, too, found some innies in my city who are of that mindset. One ex-limb guy stated to me, "We don't involve ourselves with their (twi) sh1t.....and we don't allow them (twi) to be involved with our sh1t." Another ex-hhc (because he bought a house) said......."I do not support the way anymore with my abs. They are moving in the wrong direction and I'm trying to stick it out until things change." And, it seems to me........some could care less if they get kicked out. They just don't have the wherewithal to walk away on their own. A dismal state of affairs in and around twi......for sure.

:) Thanks, John.....I appreciate the kind words. Nearly six years have passed since martindale's ousting.......and still, twi slithers in silence. No bold moves, no formal apologies, no coming clean. Nothing. Rosalie could have made some forward moves in cleaning up the mess. Rosalie could have taken heed to your letter, John..........but NO, just a syrupy gesture to "come visit twi." Sheeeesh. And, she has the charisma of a box of hair. Not a day goes by........that I'm SO THANKFUL to have left twi's squelching policies and bought my house during those 30-year low interest rates. Stayed waaaaaayyyyy too long in twi.......but when I made the move to leave, the blessings started flowing once again. :)

Yes, I too see that B.G. Leonard's class cataputed wierwille's reach beyond a corner in ohio. Even mrs. wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, spells this out. And, in hindsight...........IMO the corps program was a wierwille-engraved attempt at "the school of tyrannus" with self-serving agendas of control and manipulation. With strong emphasis of pfal indoctrination, dale carnegie principles, self-improvement, and wierwille-based corps principles.....the corps program was rooted on stony ground. Only lip service to God and Jesus as lord......but in actuality, a production mill of "pfal class instructors" and allegiance to wierwille. Martindale is the epitome of one who sold out to wierwille doctrine. Twi is not "the true ministry" spreading the Word. The Scriptures shine the LIGHT of twi's idolatry and blinded allegiance and the fruit that it will bear. God honors true ministries, not corporate structures.

More like..... Our agenda is to bring way followers together to re-establish bod teachings and policies of the way ministry. Further, we are censoring all subjects and questions that might usurp our interests of isolating, corraling, and exploiting followers and their offspring. That's how we get them convinced and keep them in the way household. This website is about control. It also serves as a pseudo-sharing of generic summations of one's learning and involvement --- much like way magazine sharings. This webiste will not allow debates, exploration, indepth study issues or dialogue of deeper intestests. We retain the right to instruct you to see your local leadership for such activities. And finally, it really is our desire to stroke our own egos in provided this website. Since it really serves very little purpose, other than another rehash setting for our glassy-eyed followers. We are not really interested in your concerns....only in monitoring your way involvement. Thank you for serving the way international with your finances, your labor and your years of strength. And, your kids will be the next generation to carry forth in this manner. What a household!

I'm wondering if this "forgiveness teaching" was bookended with innie/outie family members only. I mean...... aren't Christians supposed to be living epistles of love, compassion, forgiveness, etc.?? What about brothers and sisters in Christ? What about enduring friendships? What about corps buddies who stuck together thru thick and thin? Guess not. :) Even stubborn rivals stand "with family" when the need arises. Looks like decades of "friendship" means nothing when it comes to twi's policies of mark/avoid. Or, could it be that those staffers just don't want to cross the line and....God forbid....be on Rosie's black list. And further, be sent packing and have to face the real world. My oh my....how hypocrisy rules in twi.

Absolutely. We are definitely on their mark/avoid list.....the one that twi says doesn't exist. A close friend came to visit us a couple months ago, and had to cover all bases without breathing a word that he came to see us. Even in conversation, we assured him that we would not breath a word of his visit to any wafers. Crazy, huh? The bod can openly LIE.....and innies still follow their lead.

For me......in hindsight, I see how wierwille built a inner society of elitism. The classes were, supposedly, the steppingstones to one's spirituality....with the corps commitment as the "ultimate" in where one deeply desired to "sit at the master's feet." Now, I've chalked it up to youthful exuberance and a competitive nature. Even though I saw many red flags at twi's hq, I just discounted them as a lack of perception. Only later.....around 1982, did I start to have many doubts about wierwille and his agendas. But, even still........I stayed to right the ship. Guess I just didn't believe that the core of the thing was flawed and evil. I have come to realize that some of the great things I witnessed over the years was to be counted to God's lovingkindness and goodness. In spite of twi's jaded agendas, the Lord was taking care of me. But after martindale's outsting, the lawsuits, the out and out lies, the personal slandering......and waydale and greasespot, I see HQ staff seniority as those who've bought into the lies. They do their work, go home to the little closed-off world and pat themselves on the back for doing their 45 hour work week. Plus, they even usher at the sunday service to further help the corporation. My oh my.......how one can be deceived. It is amazing.

oldies........If wierwille HAD taken the commitment seriously, then WHY was he bringing many of these corps women to his motorcoach.....exposing his side of drunkenness, adultery, lust-filled carnality, etc....????? Doncha know........a double-minded man is unstable in ALL his ways. Wierwille was an opportunist, a con man. And yes.........wierwille was a cop-out in every sense of this wayworld word. He LEFT God......everytime he took corps girls into his motorcoach. He LEFT God......everytime he had his drambuie & coffee filled while he was teaching corps. He LEFT God......everytime he put stumbling blocks in front of those who wanted to learn more. Wierwille WAS a cop-out.......he left the light of God's Word and took the carnal route to exploit the young and naive. And, he died wishing he had had the willpower to change and really live for God.

One time I went too long in my interpretation of tongues and went into prophecy. I was egotistical and selfish and wanted to expound the greatness of God. Now you know. :)

M. D.....What I am saying is that wierwille's venomous name-calling and actions did NOT line up with scripture. In teaching the One Body of Christ, with members in particular..........why the slanderous terminology of "cop-out" if one chose to move away from twi's confines??? Did wierwille own the way corps? If Christ is head of the Church and leading his ministers, then why was wierwille ISOLATING all of us from the rest of the world? What did the label "cop-out" really mean to wierwille? Why the venom? Why not just bid one god-speed and wish them well on their journey in life? IMO......wierwille was a cop-out.....meaning he really didn't allow the scriptures to hold him to the true standard. Wierwille promoted cult mentality.....and that's exactly what evolved. Isolation and conformity to wierwille's agendas were the order of the day. I wasn't talking about "minor flaws"........I was talking about doctrine and living it.

Good points, Linda. In the days when 70 - 100 interim corps where assigned to hq......the dept coordinators ruled the day with this influx of youth and energized vitality. Having sat on our butts for the past year in classes, most of the interim corps were fully ready to DO SOMETHING. I, too, saw the dark side of twi on my interim year. There was squabbling and in-fighting at the upper echelon levels.....there was confrontation during lunchtime announcements and at staff meetings. There was constant protocol, to forever serve mog-wierwille and mog-lookalikes. Even the bus (coach) drivers hitched a ride on the coat of the mog.....they were treated with a little more respect. There as a distinctive pecking order. So much for the One Body of Christ working together. The non-profit status issue was kept in full view, but really......all decisions were made to protect twi's corporate backside. It was all too obvious. Wierwille's agendas had led to the end result that twi experiences today.........and no accountability to a separate board of directors. The cult setup is exactly as wierwille set it in motion. The staff seniority......except for a few who have investments and inheritances socked away [like Rivenbark, Freder1cks, McCulloxughs, Moneyhands]......are one confrontation away from being put out to pasture. And, the fear of living on social security income keeps them herded in the right direction. What a life.

igotout, Good to see you. Those hq staffers seem to be in a trance-like state of existence. The buzz words of sanctified, prevailing, dr. wierwille, household, stand on the word, are triggers to their detriment. I seriously doubt that some of them will ever recover from this weirwillian world. And, doncha know......some like Dorothy Owens and Rhoda are the proto-types of "serving well." With that in mind, I think that many will follow the staff mentality into their 80s.

Safari, Yeah....classic WAY mentality by staffers who've grown accustomed to demented doctrines. It seems to take SEVERAL YEARS for these staffers to de-waybrain.......and get a clue about reality. But there really is an adjustment period where "mean and bitter" surface quite regularly.

Patriot, Sounds about right......and probably one of the reasons why, for years, twi wanted to promote a five-year stint on staff assignments. Problem was.....the department coordinators found their little power corner of the world and did not want to leave! Maybe they were taking notes from Emogene's setup (ie the bookstore empire) and saw how she cornered here access to power. "Power".........what a joke. :) Now, it seems, twi is inundated with an aging problem. So many staffers are the old goats of days gone by......... far removed from the over-run of youth in the early 70s. Whether its an institutionalized problem, or a cushy-powertrip problem........the place reeks of crusty, stale religion and that just ain't gonna fly with today's youth. Just my opinion. Guess the old farts are gonna have to keep working at hq into their eighties. (Shivers)........What a sight to behold. Becoming more like an assisted living setup......year after year.

On another thread, someone mentioned that "hq was in a mess"..........and it got me wondering if the aging staffers are one of the major problems. #1.....Some of those department coordinators have been at hq for about 30 years, since PFAL '77. I would think that this "seniority situation" would generate some growing concerns i.e. retirement issues. #2.....Twi is top-heavy with too many senior citizens filling the ranks and not enough youth. Therefore, it only compounds the challenges........as youth have little desire to hang with old fuddy-duddys. #3.....Another foundational class. Are the aging staffers excited?? supportive?? complacent?? #4.....Long-standing staff probably have little desire to leave their comfortable existence and go out on the field.....and FIND ANOTHER JOB. Therefore, it must be quite the dilemma for the bod...who would really like for some older staff to move on.....and fill the staff ranks with some youth and youthful exuberance. #5.....And, are some of these older staff, who got mortgages in the late 70s thru the Way Credit Union (and paid them off)....checking out GS on their computers. So many things to ponder. :) :)

DesertVis, Many have come to GS and told us that twi reads their sunday script each week......which has to be pre-approved by the board of directors weeks in advance. The consensus is that these "teachings" are booooring...... The new foundational class in March has not generated even a fizzle of excitement. Seems that mum is the order of the day. No one seems to want to share anything.....except that its a mix of veepee's stuff and craig's wap class. Not too much else at this time.

When the former trustees.....Craig, Don & Howard.....unjustly marked/avoided me and my wife to help cover for craig's sexcapades in the mid-90s, they then proceeded to slander our reputations on the next corps meeting. From what I heard, Martindale was venomous in his attacks on our decades of service to twi while Don & Howard sat in silence. Martindale labeled me as possessed with a devil spirit. And, four different versions of lies were circulated to other states where we had admirably served. The process of these character assassinations kept any and all corps who knew us to avoid us like the plague.....for several years, until martindale's ouster. Today..........craig is exiled, don is dead, and howard is retired emeritus. What kind of apology would undo what those guys set in motion??? Or, would an apology from the newer version of trustees have any meaning??? Absurd, isn't it? Twi's apology would be meaningless and about a decade too late. Martindale could/should apologize........probably more for his benefit than mine. No amount of twi explaining or apologizing would bring closure for me. Their silence only exposed their manipulative underbelly in setting lies in motion. Twi's board of trustees betrayed me and my wife. Their blatant disregard for our lives was a tough pill to swallow.......but when Waydale came onboard, we found to be counted among the many. I have found peace, wonderful peace.

And, the other point I was trying to make.... Wierwille talked a good talk in piffle.....but the believers' walk as fellowheirs in the One Body of Christ, with Christ as the Head, was suffocated by wierwillian dogma that was contrary to Scriptures. From 1977-1982, so much of the focus was on THE WAY MINISTRY and veepee's 40 years as its president. And, the 1984 Sound Out event......was wierwille's aspirations to see "his kids" perform someday at the Grand Ole Opry. Again, the focus was on wierwille and his ministry. Thus...................wierwille was a cop-out. He copped-out on God's Word. Wierwille has his own agendas. He succombed to the works of the flesh and the pride of life. His "Mystery Train"..........didn't have Jesus Christ as the conductor. Wierwille as sitting in one of the lounge cars smoking Kool shorties and sipping his drambuie.

In the late 70s, wierwille's corps meetings and staff meetings at hq were laced with cop-out terminology. He was most venomous when a twi clergyman walked away from "his" ministry. Long before the days of mark/avoid..........wierwille was planting the seeds of banishment from twi and cursed by God. This cultish doctrine of "standing with only the way ministry till death" was watered and fertilized with out-of-context scripture. In fact, didn't several of those 4th corps men make a pact.....that if one of them should ever decide to leave twi, then it would be better that he just died [and not lose his accummulated rewards]..?? Martindale, the scapegoat for this mark/avoid doctrine in twi........was ONLY following wierwille's teachings. Now granted, he took the doctrine to newer heights (or lows), but nonetheless, he was obedient to what twi's founding president had endorsed! In every sense of the word, wierwille promoted an "US versus THEM" mindset. Isolation was the name of the game.......and comformity to wierwillisms set the tracks for this train to run. As long as you were ON THE MYSTERY TRAIN.....you were counted among the privileged. What a ride......????? Martindale was too blunt and open about it......whereas, Rivenbark has merely adapted to the suble version that wierwille had used. But make no mistake about it........this cult environment is deeply rooted in the in-house terminology, the mindset, the elitism of the faithful remnant, etc. Wierwille was a cop-out..........he copped-out on the true doctrine of The Mystery, The One Body.

I couldn't agree more. :)

Mr. Pipes I just wanted to pipe my 2cents worth in here......and tell you that your letter to rosalie was power-packed and thought provoking. No matter that she sidestepped the depth of your confrontation...........at least, you spoke what needed to be spoken. I commend your efforts. Take care, skyrider

Hmmmmm. If any apologies were extended from twi leadership (ie twi's bod) its.........SEVEN YEARS TOO LATE. Back in 1999, when martindale's sexcapades came front and center on Waydale and martindale made his "public confession of a one-time affair".......Craig, Howard, Don, Rosalie and Donna all walked in darkness and deception to keep the rank-and-file from a mass exodus. [unless one wants to go back and consider "the fog years fiasco"........]......... Who could ever trust those folk with their spiritual lives????? Not me! Seven years later, the bod and president's cabinet members STILL walk in darkness and do not the truth. Unwilling to accept responsibility for demented doctrines that bear putrid fruit, the manipulation from the podium lays this well-placed "forgiveness teaching" on the shoulders of their followers. If it weren't so pathetically sick........it would be laughable. And, besides the obvious $$$$$$$$$ factor..............I would think that it is really embarrassing to see the dwindling numbers in the limbs, the same faces at sunday teachings, the skeleton corps program, and another foundational class to attempt to boost the paper totals. Just one more strike against Rosalie's deceptive leadership. Imo, this new wrinkle is just one more way to divert attention FROM hq......and back onto the people. How connnnnnnvenient........................ <_< Same trick, different day. :)