skyrider

According to this article..........."Though billions of dollars have been salted away, there still remains an unfunded future liability $8.7 billion for current nuns, priests and brothers in religious orders." The financial hole is projected by a consulting firm to exceed $20 billion by 2023." My, oh my............... :blink:

It's making headlines..........the cost of benefits for retiring nuns is staggering. The internet article gives the projected numbers. Will twi be next? As twi staffers hit 65 and older (like Rosalie Rivenbark).....will twi continue to keep them on the payroll? What about after 70?........will twi "be there" for them in their golden years? Unless the numbers increase significantly in the next 5-10 years.............it's going to be a very meager retirement style of living for lots of twi staffers? And, according to twi's track record.........it doesn't look good for those below the top hierarchy. Even Mrs. Wierwille didn't fair all that well. It's gotta be unsettling to see this..............doesn't it???????? :(

Oh.....the memories keep flooding back. After WOW training in 1976 (?).....I was full of trepidation upon learning that five adults (and one child) would be crammed into one semi-dependable car for our 450 mile ride to our WOW destination. Of course, with five adults......and packing the trunk and back window area with all our stuff.....we took a trek like modern-day beverly hillbillies. The back bumper was about three inches from dragging foot........no spare tire.......and down the road we went. Guess what happened? A big chunk of tread fell off the back tire on the passenger side......and we thumped, thumped, thumped for about seven miles to the nearest exit. After another ordeal, we bought a used tire....and off again. Another hour down the road.....and everyone was hungry. So, we pulled off again.....and enroute to a fast-food place, we came across a slightly elevated railroad crossing. Well, we bottomed OUT. And, everyone but the driver exited the car to push it over the tracks. Some laughed, some were stunned. On thru the night we traveled. Got lost.....the 6th corps guy wasn't too good at reading maps. We arrived around dawn......groggy, sweaty, irritated, etc......ready to bless the new city with our presence. :)

Highway.......that's exactly how I took it, too. Martindale was envious of the growing teen success........he canned it, and fabricated lies to cover it. Just more character assassinations for the sake of mogville supremacy.

Teens were unsupervised......because a large portion of the parents, corps and non-corps, were working behind the scenes and/or off to another meeting. Sheeeesh. Couldn't be at two places at one time. The roa was NOT a family event...........it was a meeting after meeting, teaching after teaching event. The kids didn't attend this thing to just sit on their butt. Nor did young teens want to be with their mom, in tow, all day long....day after day. In all my years with twi.........they NEVER figured out how to better approach this growing concern.

ILB, One twi doctrine that specifically contributed to and intensified emotional entrapment was....... "the present truth." By twisting and perverting the scriptures, twi was able to CHANGE SPIRITUAL STANDARDS from week to week. Talk about an emotional roller coaster....or entrapment. With a changing standard....and wanting to stand approved before God via his leaders.....confrontation, confusion and fear become evil taskmasters.

Yeah.....for me as a staffer, I looked forward to those "big weekend events." It took the monotony out of the humdrum routine at a root locale. Does anyone remember the growing concept of having an East/West ROA? Some even thought it could grow to Regional ROA....??? Could the free labor pool (way corps) pull that off..?

Hope, Yup......lots of chaff burned up real quick, eh? Happy 6 years of regaining your individuality...!!! Cheers (and beers) to you and hubby.

Yup.....desiring the upper seats of the marketplace (Board Mtg rooms and USA Pavilion Tent) and rub elbows with twi's mogs. Here a mog.....there a mog......everywhere a mog mog.

Never grow up....you should remain adolescent in your thinking. Spending time with your earthly family is taboo.....and fell into the devil's trappings of "earthly, sensual, and devilish." Be specific and clear about your life and commitments.....twi can be as vague as it wants to be. Never leave the ministry "that taught you the word".......no matter what. Even if twi becomes laced with adulterous, back-stabbing, lying, seducing leadership.....you STILL owe it to God to follow twi's leadership for the rest of your life.

Radar......no offense intended to you and other hq staff who put in excessive hours at roa. Hope you got my private message that I sent you. And yeah.....I, too, was an hq staffer for three years. During Living Victoriously, I was working 18 hours a day to keep up with the workload. So.....welcome to the backside of major events. :)

First, foremost and always...........wierwille (twi) did not comprehend and accept THE DYNAMIC AND CHANGING RESPONSIBILITIES OF CORPS GRADS who were attempting to get established in a community (physically, financially, socially, etc.) and live a lifetime of Christian service. Those who lived furthest from New Knoxville, Ohio.....like say California, Alaska, Hawaii (what about those international corps???) had to pony-up some serious cash for taking 16-18 days off work. And, as the years passed.....marriage, family, career advancement, growing responsibilities, etc confronted each corps grad who made the yearly trek to ohio. And, let's not forget to mention......throughout the year, for these corps grads there were Limb mtgs, Branch mtgs, Corps mtgs, weekly Twig mtgs, and all the VOLUNTEER WORKLOAD of overseeing a good-sized Branch. Pregnant corps wives were becoming a part of the equation. Guys left their pregnant wife back home....and prayed that she wouldn't go into labor until they got back. And, as the years passed....little babies were a disturbance at corps week. Now what?? THE DYNAMIC AND CHANGING RESPONSIBILITIES OF CORPS GRADS......and cultdom had no answer. Wierwille's only way of dealing with it was to confront the corps on their commitment to "a lifetime of Christian service." Yeah.........that worked. Why not give profound public thanks at corps week for all corps grad participation?? Why not take a day at the roa and credit the way corps for their on-going faithfulness and countless hours of giving to twi?? Rather than just having corps promos.......why no have a few select corps give testimonials of their lives and growing responsibilities as a result of their corps training? Why not??.........because wierwille was so ego-driven that he couldn't see beyond his nose and the scriptures on the podium. From one corps grad to many............THANK YOU CORPS for your amazing labor of love.

George..........appreciate your words and the cold splash of REALITY.

Yeah.....sitting on the grass, a make-shift stage, some rock-n-roll music, a small gathering of hippies who were on an adventure to Ohio to check and see if this was another spark of the Jesus movement / culture. Wasn't one of those earlier themes....."Addicted to the ministry of the saints" [an adaptation from I Cor/ 16:13] ? Wierwille was a smooth operator. :)

(((A la)))......so glad to see you free-wheelin' again. :) For me.........in-rez was more like an invisible fence and our corps name tag monitored the current. After a few zappings..........one knows exactly where the boundaries lie and stays put.....or digs some holes and by-passes the system.

Chas......the duplicity of life, where black and white never meet. On one hand, a pfal grad is "glad to have taken the class" and on the other hand, finds disappointment and regret by the truckload. Imo, it's all speculation. Me? I was already born again....from teachings by a missionary group....and believe that God is able to fill all those who hunger and thirst after righteousness. And, no.......I didn't need a cult side journey to add to my resume of experiences.

Two things........1) Being really hungry and 2) Wierwille said they were (good). Just another "buy in" to wierwille's charisma.

Yep.........THAT is why I still post here at GS. Having crossed the cult chasm and safe on the other side..........the "bridge" is for others who WILL PASS this way. Tens of thousands of posts and threads from hither to yon......spans the chasm of hurt, despair, confusion, helplessness, etc. I salute you bridge-builders......SALUTE. :)

Well, since "true confessions" are coming out... For several reasons, the Rock of Ages festival was a mixed bag of blessings and cursings and pawned off as "the greatest gathering this side of heaven" : Blessings ... 1) Reuniting with my friends every year, although brief.....was a deep joy. ... 2) Some of the early roa teachings were good..........just too long. ... 3) Meeting folks from around the world who loved God.....was fascinating. ... 4) Watching the WOWs come into the main tent....with victory in their eyes. ... 5) Music.....some good music (in the early years). ... 6) Going to the House of His Healing Presence. ... 7) Knowing that I'd see some of my good friends next year at the Rock. Cursings ... 1) The workload that I mentioned in my posts. ... 2) Wierwille's policy to dress in suit clothes in muddy surroundings.....crazy concept. ... 3) ROA's concepts...."good food, good fun, good fellowship".....were just words. ... 4) Too many teachings.....too much structure......too much policing the area. ... 5) Very little variety.....same ole, same ole. ... 6) Main stage hypocrisy......was very visible to the onlooker. ... 7) Upper leaders followed bot example......not accessible to the people. Prayer? Healings? So, in hindsight.....I loathe many aspects of roa. If it hadn't been MANDATORY for corps.....I know that I probably would have skipped quite a few of them. And, when they added the corps week aspect.....it was more about CONTROLLING CORPS GRADS than anything.

mstar....that's what I see, too. A common interest is the key factor to the experience. Sounds like you found something there that's rejuvenating your soul, your life. The time to dance is NOW.

igotout..........you rebel you. Too much is right. Heck, corps week evolved into little more than WORK WEEK for us peon corps.....and gave certain mogs time to check out their kingdom. Besides working to put on the finishing touches of roa.....and way prod rehearsals..... and get the food production up and running.....corps week became another in-house workload. Lots of work to do because 3,000 people gathered in one place generate their own set of maintenance. Why didn't HQ STAFF do the dirty work.....the trash compactor work, the honey wagon, the porto-potties, the food warehousing/transporting/prep work???? Heck no!!! The office boys and girls wouldn't soil their hands and break a sweat. And, the grounds staff had grass to mow. And, housekeeping personnel still had offices to clean and trustee homes to upkeep. The field corps did the dirty work.......being at the bottom of the command chain, ye know. We were the ones who did the disgusting work detail.......for frickking free...!!! And, to me.....the bottom line was NOT money. It was thankfulness and appreciation for "the corps household" working together. But no........when did wierwille ever give a heart-felt THANK YOU to the multitude of worker bees?? Heck, he expected us to jump......without hesitation, without question. Martindale picked up on this same abuse....where wierwille left off. And yeah....I would fully agree that ROA was alot more fun for the non-corps. Some of them came in mid-week.....stayed 3 or 4 days....and left whenever.

(((rascal))) Awww......another worker bee in our midst. Wowsers....you bring to mind the DANGEROUS SITUATIONS that we endured time and time again. Wasn't it 1985, at corps week, when that major thunderstorm was pooling on the roof of the Big Top? The tent top was sagging more and more.....and one guy had to climb up there and cut a hole to relieve the pressure?? All the while........martindale (or whoever) was trying to teach. Assinine situations.......everyone was fastened on the turmoil, and martindale was ignoring it. Like.....the word must be taught tonight. Sheeeeesh........sicko arrogance. And, yeah...........I got extremely dehydrated and sick one year while I was staying in the corps tents. Two others around me had the same symptoms. For two days, I was vomiting and got the dry heaves. Did twi have people checking on us?????? NO... NO... NO......no time for that. The backside of roa..........showed very little care or compassion for the way corps. Here, we were the major portion of the labor force.....and, unlike the hq staff worker who was still collecting a paycheck during these two weeks.....THE FIELD CORPS GAVE 16 DAYS TO TRAVEL TO OHIO, INCUR ALL THESE EXPENSES, AND DO GRUELLING WORK FOR FREE. Another point.........roa evolved into little more that a money-making/ promotional venture for twi. Heck, after 1977......I don't recall any healing services at roa. No demonstration of God's power on display..... just mouthing of scriptures and cliches. And later still, twi implemented mandatory twigs at 11 am every day with your current assignment or state.......to control the flow of information and full fellowship. Those of us who saw the backside of roa (physically and spiritually)......have replaced those warm, fuzzy feelings with weeks of august tranquil relaxation.

When some post about those warm, fuzzy feelings from the rock of ages.........I've got to admit, I had some of those experiences too. But after about my 4th roa....and being corps....those 6 hr - 12 hr work shifts, coupled with mandatory meetings and teachings in 98 degree weather for the next 18 years was enough to douse any fire of excitement. What is the backside of roa? I suppose it could be called by many names.....but, to me, its the out-of-sight areas that any state fair or rodeo or event tries to hide from view. You know.......the smelly trash compactors, the honey wagon (sewer wastage) detail for rv areas, the port-a-pottie cleanup, etc. Also, the food warehousing area..... the staging and prep areas..... are massive undertakings for 18,000 people eating day after day. Like most people.......I never minded working 4 to 6 hour shifts. That was no big deal......but when the shift was under-staffed or the workload kept growing......the corps were first in line to do the extra work. Not just one shift or one day, but throughout the TWO WEEKS (corps week & roa). And, the intense heat added to the challenge.....along with drenching downpours at night to soak everything in your tent. Add, a sour throat and dehydration......and it made for a very tough time in O-Hell-NO. And to top it off.....some of us corps had hq staff work coordinators. These were the ones who: ...1) Did NOT travel for two days and 800 miles to even get to Ohio. ...2) Slept in a dry, air-conditioned trailer unit (or founders' hall) and got good sleep. ...3) Drove around cushmans and hob-nobbed with their staff buddies. ...4) Had their suit and tie hanging in a closet and ready for every corps meeting. ...5) Sat around and delegated the workload. ...6) The field corps provided a major portion of the worker bees for roa. ...7) Etc. etc......I think you get my drift. :) Corps were separated from their children during corps week. Not a bad thing......unless health issues surfaced or someone was dishing out unreasonable confrontation to your kid. Yeah, the backside of roa was alot of hard, gruelling work. And, to top it off..........very little thanks. The guys on main stage, the teachers and smooshers basked in the spotlight. So.....no, forgive me if I don't quite remember those "warm, fuzzy feelings" from roa.

Check back thru the threads, Oldies. This topic has been discussed about a dozen times in microscopic detail. You've been around a long time, Oldies. And, you choose to keep sidestepping these issues......and try to whitewash twi's deceptive policies. Same stuff, different day. :)

Man, Oldies..............you're STILL laying claim to stuff from the 70's. Time to stop whitewashing twi, Oldies.............you live in a time capsule of twi diaperland and choose to deceive with your BS. Hell.........wierwille pushed his policy to ABS by the late 70s. And, by the late 80s, martindale had given the corps specific instructions to check the blue forms, the absing of "the faithful." The percentages went from 10% to..."one should be willing to give 15% in the grace adm". And, by 1997.... martindale was pushing his plurality giving doctrine. All full-time way corps heard these teachings. By plurality giving, martindale stated that one -- after paying off these bills and having their need met -- should be WILLING TO GIVE THE REST TO TWI. As former corps (left twi in 1998).....I detest how the board of trustees (craig, don & howard) deceived good-hearted believers and extorted money for twi's coffers. All the while, taking trips to the Bahamas and southern Florida and stashing millions into twi investments. Thankfully, I refused to go to believers' homes and demand a financial reporting of their income and absing. Oldies...........get off this thread. You have NO IDEA what twi's "official" policy is.