skyrider

I'll join in the singing................HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU. Hope you have a special day filled with special moments, hugs and kisses.

TrustAndObey, You've probably put the pieces together, but here's a very brief recap: 1) Craig believes vpw's doctrine.....for him to have plenty of sex "to loosen him up spiritually." 2) Craig has scores of women......dayton motels, gunnison, motorcoach, etc. 3) Roalie knew about this as early as 1995.....as she stated in a court deposition. 4) At the 1998 hq adv class....lcm had sex with a married woman who became distraught. This married woman, who husband was back in Gunnison with their kids, told her family corps brother. He went and confronted craig. Immediately, the inresidence corps guy was sent packing and lindxr took him to a bus station. The ex-corps guy made lots of phone calls......lots of upheaval. Dozens were mark/avoid. 5) In Feb 1999, P@ul Allxn found out that his wife had sex with LCM. P@ul confronted lcm that very night as lindxer was in the room with a holstered gun at his side. P@ul demanded for martindale's resignation. Didn't happen. P@ul and his wife, both on hq staff, were fired and were told to pack their bags. Lindxr had orders to make sure they get gone, talk to no one, as soon as possible. 6) P@ul Allxn put together his website........WAYDALE. :) 7) Waydale....from March 1999 onward......puts lots of information out there. Waydale was booming with thousands of posts, loads of documents, insider information. 8) Martindale knew that a lawsuit was coming his way. 9) In March/April of 2000.....the Allen lawsuit against twi, lcm, bot, others 10) April 2000.......Martindale admits to having "an affair." (one, consensual affair) 11) Twi's lawyers convince twi's trustees to get rid of craig......too much liability. 12) September 2000.........lcm secretly heads to Toledo to live with a married couple (and receive counseling and therapy for depression, etc). Lots behinds the scenes for sure. Thanks for praying.

ex.....this advanced class wayspeak was another one of their erroneous slogans. It raised too many questions and was later dropped from twi wayspeak. No one walks with "all nine all the time".................

Well said, Oakspear........thanks. For some, taking "the class" ....and especially the advanced class.....was like the attainment of ultimate knowledge and now, "all nine all the time."

It's one thing to be ignorant.......but spinning vpw's credentials, when the facts are clearly known, is something else. It's called.....deceiving yourself and others.

Not according to Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve." She gives explicit details of vpw's excitement in finding B.G. Leonard's ministry and heading up to Calgary, Alberta Canada. And, much more than just syllabus learning..........B.G. spent time with his students on the operation of the manifestations. Allan......you might want to check out her book. :)

Nope.....lots of choices. That's why I posted....."Amongst all the decisions..." In hindsight, I now see the bigger picture....and thank God for the decisions that I made. Lots of challenges for sure, but all things worked toward good. Everyone faces unique crossroads in life.

And, my next two paragraphs ADDED to the list. Thanks for reading a portion of my post and responding, though.

Same things??? Really? YOU had run-ins with CGeer where he blatantly out-and-out lied? YOU had knowledge that Geer was trying to smear your name? YOU, years earlier, talked to the trustees about Geer's underhandedness? With this Geer-background.......his account of wierwille's words and "last will and testament" was too hard to swallow for me. And to this day, I'm sooo glad I didn't go down the Geerite path. Seems like some are still wandering around "in the wilderness of was-geer-right?"

WhiteDove, For some of us in the 1986-88 twi era, choosing to stay with twi rather than exit their doors and follow CG (or any other group) was alot more complicated than just "believing Craig." There were a myriad of components to consider.....ministry responsibilities, overseeing fellowships, individual concerns, friendships and fellow-laborers, extended family involvement, etc. etc. Amongst all of these decisions, my wife and I had had a few run-ins with Cgeer where "he did us dirty." He blatantly lied to cover his actions and deceive upper leadership. Suffice it to say, once bitten one is wary of the terrain where one walks. And for me.....knowing European corps and Canadian corps who had very traumatic dealings with Geer, the many sources outside GSC have converged on a general consensus with that man. In one word ........... BEWARE. Now then, the guy may have done a complete 180 degree turn-around since the POP paper and all that. But, IMO, he sure has taken the "corporate approach" of franchising his contracts to ex-wafers. I just don't see any resemblance to spirit-filled ministries......like Paul, Silas, Barnabus, Philip, Timothy, etc. YMMV

Good posts, T & O.............Thanks. I bold-faced a few points that bear REPEATING.

15% of ABS goes to Geer...?? :blink: Relatively, no overhead expenses. Any staff salaries?? equipment? machinery? fleet cars? No traveling expenses, no counseling fees, no pastoral work............no programs, no outreach. Just sitting in an office re-re-researching scriptures and COLLECTING 15% abs and thousands from those franchise contracts. Sorry, it just strikes me as exploiting the simple and weak.

Or........maximum indoctrination. There seems to be no "middle ground" in twi......no tempering of moderation. And, rather than setting forth a 10-hour foundational class to familiarize new people with basic biblical truths and principles..... it crosses those boundaries. Of course, when one plays by their rules......you ain't a believer until you've taken their class.

Twi's got another new foundational class.......Geer's gang gives allegiance to "his" classes......other splinter groups have their version of classes. Since when did the Lord annoint classes for delivering his people? Even in the early pfal days, the Jesus Movement and the late 60s/ early 70s sparked a cultural revolution of which twi was a beneficiary. It wasn't just veepee's pfal class. Sheeesh. In Luke 4....The Spirit of the Lord is upon ME, because he hath annointed ME to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent ME to heal the brokenhearted, (he hath sent ME) to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, (he hath sent ME) to set at liberty them that are bruised.... Yeah, I know.....classes are an aid to the teaching process, a tool. BUT when "the class" becomes the center reference point of recruitment, counseling, pastoring, memorizing, idolizing.......the tail is wagging the dog. And to sit back and collect "blood money, sweat money, livelihood money" from faithful followers via the franchising of a class is, IMO, the far extemity of spiritual slothfulness. No where does it say.......Ambassadors for a class. No way did Philip.............offer the eunuch a class. The Lord doesn't annoint classes...........He annoints His people and sends them forth. Uuuuugh. More later.

Well........ Some of us here remember the postings (two or three years ago?) from the european corps girl who spent her inresidence years at Gartmore under Geer's "leadership." The verbal abuse and degradation that she described was frekking unreal. But yeah..........you go to a CG fellowship...........and Geer stays away, hiding in the shadows, collecting his franchise money. A sick system of lording over people (and exploiting them) if you ask me.

Good post, T-bone. :) I can relate..........leaving twi after 24 years was like re-thinking everything wierwille had taught me in pfal, throwing out LOTS of it and holding fast to the simplicity that was in Jesus Christ. And further, I count twi's corporate/idolotrous system as but DUNG...........that I may win Christ. My thanks to God for opening my eyes to the downward spiral of twi.

I, too, have gotten this response...."it isn't profitable"....on a couple of situations. To me, I took it to mean....."it isn't in our favor (offshoots' agenda) to discuss those things." Like so many things.....if they cannot CONTROL the conversation, they want no part of it. Any indepth discussion of Geer's slickery is to be avoided in the bluntest of responses. Under the bright lights of logic and scrutiny......Geer's track record and actions doesn't hold the mogship mantle either. Maybe a franchise mog-con, but not a spirit-filled man of god.

Wierwille grabbed her breasts.....!! Too bad she didn't SLAP him......and haul his foot to court for sexual harrassment.

Children?? Guess it depends on your definition and image of "children." The oldest daughter is.............like 28 years old. Their middle child, son.............is probably 22 or 23. The youngest daughter is.........like 16 or so. IMO, the oldest two figured out lots of this stuff YEARS ago. Living under the martindale roof probably "negatively affected them" more than any of our postings. And..........innies are told to stay off the internet and especially ex-way sites.

A twi-owned house on 6 acres in Gunnison.........????? And, for what purpose.....????? :blink:

Currently, twi is crawling forward as a corporation. IMO, the 50+ year old innies are awakened to the reality of meager sunset years.........and thus, have one foot in (twi) and one foot out (reality). Not much witnessing is happening.....lots of reasons, I suppose, one of which is embarrassment. It's hard to explain how this "prevailing" ministry has some 20-30 people scattered around in their state......and statewide meetings are pathetically small. And then, try and explain twi's history and former presidents. Is martindale mentioned? When did veepee die? And, this gap of confusion. And now, a "new" foundational class. Questions.....questions. And then, there is the internet. Heck, if twi can even fill the lower part of their hq auditorium...........imagine the sparse numbers on the field a thousand miles away.

Yeah...........a far cry from the early/mid 70s. Where are the young, single, bible-fanatics that met in parks, malls, homes.......hanging out together five or six nights of the week and sparked a wave of fanaticism across the USA? Where are the two thousand WOW Ambassadors who went forth speaking the Word, working in the communities, witnessing to their families, and returning to Ohio for the ROA? Where are the corps groups that numbered 300-375 year after year.....swelling five campus locations from Colorado to Ohio? Where are the singers, the songs, the music that soared to the heavens.....the outward expression of praise and thankfulness to a powerful God who forgives, heals and delivers His people? Where????? Gone. Legalism and religion are seated at twi......and plan to stay.

How convenient....!!! Give her a dink little responsibility......don't chew gum, don't pick your nose.......and THEN, give her traveling privileges. Applaud her dedication to "teach the corps"......add snippets in the way rag..... and soon, she will be firmly standing on another pedestal. Donna gets the double-standard treatment. From 1971-2000, all corps couples were treated as ONE UNIT......ALWAYS. If the husband screwed up, they both were dropped from corps and sent packing. If the wife failed, then the husband was reproved for not leading.......and both were dropped from active corps. Here............Donna gets a free pass. Rosa-lie oversteps the scriptures........and plays favorites. And this was at the beginnings stages of rosa-lie's presidency. Imagine how many other things have been slipping in with "sleight of hand?" What if Jesus would have played favorites?

Over six years ago, Craig L. Martindale was ousted from his mantled position as mogfot and was sent packing.......leaving his wife, Donna, and youngest daughter behind. The other two children are young adults.....six years apart from each other. Donna stayed corporately grounded and near her daughter's school. Today, Donna and her daughter live on twi grounds (several posters have verified this)......no longer living in the Corps Chalet. According to some reports, Donna has assumed the Christian Ediquette and Song Leading responsibilities that the late Dorothy Owxns carried for decades. Does this mean that Donna travels out to Camp Gunnison a few times a year to teach the inresidence corps? Probably didn't take too long with FOUR corps graduates this past year....... Does Donna oversee a department? Housekeeping, or something? I mean.......twi is a real stickler on getting every penny for their value. And by now, six years later......the "special assistant to the president" title has become transparent. And Craig......not quite the CEO Forbes-type that we so often heard from his own boastings. What?? The guy is still an average working joe in TOE-LEAD-OH........ So much for the vaunted "spiritual giants" that walked amongst us.