skyrider

Rascal, Good points. Yeah.......even pfal has the seeds of twisted statements wherein agendas followed. :unsure:

Well..........I expected MORE from "the true ministry" (cough, cough). Didn't wierwille teach something about NOT reading around the truth.............yet, wierwille, in all his years, never approached the subject of adultery. Yep, he dodged SEVERAL topics, didn't he.??

I repeat...... This man HAD an agenda.

Time and time again, discussions on this forum turn to "we were taught the Word in pfal" or "vpw taught this or that" or a host of other "truth-related" scenarios by the vpw-apologists. Yet, there is overwhelming evidence that there were DOUBLE STANDARDS everywhere. And further.............Selective Teachings were utilized to push forward agendas to advance the corporation. Sure, we heard hundreds of teachings on "believing"..........because it pushed wierwille's "law of believing dogma" to the forefront (aka: the pfal class), but what about goodness, gentleness, compassion, care-giving, community involvement, parenting priorities, etc.??? Selective teachings..........keeping us guilt-ridden. Selective teachings..........keeping the pfal classes rolling. Selective teachings..........promoting corps enrollment and training. Selective teachings..........cloning the "martindale image" and stifling individuality. And, after decades of teachings..........why the adolescent approach? Where are the teachings on........1) Life-Fulfilling Service to God, 2) Purchasing the Right Home to Honor God, 3) Financial Investments and Freedom, 4) Raising Your Family and Bonding Together, 5) Keeping Priorities Straight -- The Twi-Corporation is Not First, 6) Adultery is a Sin, 7) Keep the Home Fires Burning in your marriage relationship, 8) etc. And, why didn't they DEBUNK the "father in the word" crap? And, why didn't they DEBUNK the mog-worship junk? And, why didn't they DEBUNK the "mantle-to-martindale" silliness? BECAUSE.........it pushed the wierwillian cult agendas!!! No public teachings by vpw on adultery.....in all his 40 years ??? H E L L O Selective teachings were the name of the game.

Or..........a business investment, wherein the skeleton staff and inresident corps (4, 5, 6 ??) maintain the buildings and grounds as the real estate escalates. It also gives rosalie and the gang a nice hideaway.....with plenty of petty cash for shopping sprees coming and going. After all, how many "leaders" does it take to indoctrinate a few trainees?

Upon request..........this thread is bumped. Lots of information regarding vpw's earlier years.

Welcome motherof2. Of course, there's a place here for you. The more the merrier. It's nice having another friend. Greasespot has alot to offer..........even a silly forum. Enjoy your stay. skyrider

A few thoughts.......... It's totally a different set of rules when twi operates BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.....i.e. inresidence corps program / mog-whorship mentality / motorcoach-manuevering / corps peer pressure / corps sponsorship commitments to uphold / etc. Sure...........I could have walked away at the first sign of VPW twisting the scriptures. Sure.........all of us, could have/ should have done things differently. Hindsight, ya know. Was there a one-shoe-fits-all experience for all of us? NO. Was the perfect time to exit twi during the mass exodus. NO.......some had to wait for the right conditions to align for spouse/family/ and all. Even the Research Team abandoned wierwille in the early 80s. Guess they saw that wierwille's agendas were "off the Word."

With the right labeling......"edited posthumously by socks"......you should be raking in the dough, because if the right-reverend slick vic said so, it's got to be right. Cgeer got in just when the feeding frenzy was at its paranoid peak.

polar bear, 'Tis a challenge, for sure........to balance all the twi doctrine/practice in one's life, let alone, add to that the wife and family in tow. And, with some of those twi teachings about murmurrings and disputings....or the four fronts of the adversary (where self is one)........it takes alot of fortitude to even begin to mount a frontal attack on twi beliefs. Many a couple goes thru this "in-fighting"......and hopefully, they will keep the twi local leader out of their marriage and affairs while they move to higher ground. And yes.......coersion is one of twi's sharper tools.

Perhaps......... The reduction of "power" within the Region Coord ranks has something to do with.....1) Less damage control and loss of the rank and file if/when the Region couple cuts their ties with twi and 2) Other field leaders are able to keep a closer eye on each other of "equal status." In so many ways..........twi-seniority privileges are most prominent at hq. Field assignments are reshuffled every few years to keep allegiance and attachments away from field leaders and directed towards twi......whereas, at hq, its really a corporate structure not a ministry.

Great point, Hope. Behind closed doors.....I would imagine that the board of directors have discussed the "investment" of keeping an image of growth and, therefore, justified the extra salaried positions. And heck, with some $50 million in assets...........why not? The cloak of "prevailing" seems to be manageable......at this point. But they'd better be bringing in some youngbloods..........because the older generation isn't going to stay golden forever.

Such lofty labels........... At the very least, the new labeling......is something NEW to talk about. Yeah, Roger that............really a way builders overseer. Yeah, John R..................PRing the trunk office. Yeah, Jean-Yves.............same ole thing Howard used to do. And. Gary.........wasn't L0uie L1nd doing this job before he split out years ago? And, Donna.......Chief Brass Polisher. Amazing how many levels of "importance" can be instituted when $$$$$$$$$$$$ is in the coffers.

Yeah...I see your point. Thanks. Those were crazy times......when so many were "panting after the works of the mog-wierwille." Sorta shows how that cultish environment fostered hysteria. And, yeah...............I've sorta moved on, too. Just seems cult-crazy to follow the mog-worship that vpw initiated when, in hindsight, we see all the plaigarism. And more crazy.......the trend continues in the offshoots.

Well.....at least you're honest in that you do NOT CARE what he does. In so many ways.....I see the "edited posthumously" cg-ministry much like the plaigarized ministry of victor paul wierwille. Kinda like a house that is built on sand.......and great is the fall of it. YMMV

WD.....as I've told you several times........I had FIRST-HAND dealings with Cgeer on three separate occasions. Later, he lied to the trustees and attempted some deceitful backstabbing. So, don't tell me about judgements based on hearsay............I had up-close dealings with the guy. Could it be............that YOUR perception is slanted in view of your choices? And, like you said....."No matter how much YOU may like an individual that does not validate what they say as truth." You just weren't there when I had those unpleasant encounters with the guy, were you?

You mean like...........send the guy "off to battle" and while he's busy..........take the wife to bed? Seems like I've heard that one before.

With Cgeer......enough first-hand information has come forward to detail some of his "face value." And, it ain't pretty. But in terms of his "edited posthumously" agendas.....it seems fairly evident that he was into a "Promoting of a Patriarch" (wierwille) mode. From bus driver to valet to bodyguard.......Cgeer had carved out his life's work and with the passing of wierwille, he simply shifted gears. With Wierwille......enough evidence of his plaigarism has been documented for me to see how he spring boarded his ministry from other men's work. Was it ethical and justified? Not according to B.G. Leonard's viewpoint.......who began copyrighting his work after wierwille's class (cough, cough) sprung up in 1953. "Some years later I still have seen no other reason or gain...." Well, sitting back and collecting monthly franchise checks might be ONE reason.

Seems like there is a very fine line (and a legal and ethical issue) between plaigarizing another man's works VERSUS producing "edited posthumously" material and springboarding one's own ministry..?? :blink:

On a thread in the Open Forum entitled Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus......some aspects of CG and edited poshumously came up but were not the main focus of the thread. Could someone answer a few of my questions..........please? 1) What is the literary protocol of proceeding forward with edited posthumously? With CG editing vpw's teachings, corps notes, special songs, ballads, etc......IMO, it seemed more like NAME-DROPPING than anything else. 2) Is there a point or boundary wherein "edited posthumously" is merely marketing fabrication? Clearly, with wierwille's studying the work of J.E. Stiles, E.W. Bullinger and B.G. Leonard (to name a few)......he gleaned (and plaigarized) aplenty over the years. Now, CG is taking the vp-work and moving it further from its original (copyrighted?) source. 3) I tend to view the edited posthumously aspect as a continuation of work that someone finishes in the event that a fellow researcher/author dies before a project is completed.....and, when edited posthumously one credits the person. Is that correct? I have more questions about this............but will hold off for now. Thanks.

A long, long time ago...........there were 5 campus locations: 1) hq, 2) emporia, 3) rome city, 4) gunnison and 5) tinnie. The logistics of keeping those "ducks all in a row" made it necessary for a designated position, namely the corps director, to keep the indoctrination uniform across the board. Today...........outright laughable. Only 5 or so corps grads. The situaton became "too many chiefs and not enough indians." Even twi recognized this hierarchical absurdity.

Speaking of trustee birthdays.......won't they be putting 67 candles on rosalie's cake in March '07..?? Doncha think, Ms. Rivenbark......that it's TIME to step aside and let another administrator take the reins of twi's corporation setup..?? Surely, after six years at the helm....you've trained others to oversee the "massive workload" of this multi-tiered outfit..?? Just wouldn't be right.....if you, rosalie, were staying in power simply because it's your last sputter of recognition before you go emeritus and spend out your days in a little swimming pool.

Yeah..........THE CASTE SYSTEM at twi's hq came into glaring view on trustee birthdays. The heaping of adulation and unlimited favortism made for questionable idolatry at twi's root locale. Just another RED FLAG that showed me twi was missing the mark on living the truth in the Pauline Epistles, namely every believer is an equaled member in particular. Yep.....vpw was "off the word".....craig was "off the word"......and on down the line. So thankful......that I'm NO LONGER living in the shadows of twi's hypocrisy and sin culture.

Yep......november 4th marks craig martindale's birthday. For years, twi celebrated it with plenty of fanfare, lunchtime presentation, heaps of adulation, birthday greetings from around the country, special gifts, and more. Today..??? Will twi's board of directors even acknowledge he was born..?? What kind of day will be in store for him..?? Who knows? Who cares? My of my.....how times have changed. :blink: One is the loneliest number.......