skyrider

HCW.........thanks for an insider perspective of hq and the man, wierwille. Interesting...........wierwille's whole ministry work is built on plagairism and he tries to copy the US President's jet, official seal and SS protection to vaunt his image and ego?? What a grandiose pattern of copy-cat cornfield cult crap!! Amazing..........lol. And no..............I cannot tell you the biblical significance of why wierwille would name twi's plane, Ambassador One, to parallel with the US President's personal jet.

Yes........Ian was in the 2nd corps. IIRC.......around 1991 or so, Ian was dropped from active corps (and clergy status). Don't know the reasons and all.......but he seemed to stay somewhat involved with twi. But corps status........gone.

Bell......I tend to think that some of the vpw-apologists of this board see that there is a "higher level of vpw-adulation" (idolizing) that even THEY can't agree with. Seems like some vpw-fanatics put THE MAN on a pedestal........other fanatics put HIS PLAGAIRIZED WORK on a pedestal. Go figure. :)

Thanks for your input, T&O........sounds like you're pretty much "middle of the road" type thinking. Like around 5).....liked some aspects of pfal. Your post brings to mind the different perspectives of twi. Lots of background and reasonings for being involved with twi.......aren't there?

If GSC is any indication of the ex-twi community.....serving as a microcosmic indicator, there seems to be several levels of vpw-adoration. On a scale of 1 to 10......1 being the top, vp-idolizing level and 10 correlating with a vp-huckster, con-man, and predatory plagairist (that's probably enough low-life narcisist behavioral patterns). And, based on words on Greasespot: ...1) Very few have consistently idolized vpw. (aka: lord vpw) ...2) Few would even fall into a level-2 ranking of vpw-adoration. ...3) Some vpw-apologists who swear by "the pfal class" might be included here. ...4) Some think vpw was a great teacher and his example didn't matter at all. ...5) Some like aspects of pfal and don't care that lots was plagairized. ...6) A few see twi's founder as having good intentions. ...7) A few think lazy vpw was searching for a gimick, a new slant. ...8) Vpw's inability to position good leaders where needed. Lack of skill / management. ...9) Vpw's depravity in drinking and abuse. ...10) Draw away disciples after himself........motorcoach unaccountability / private interpretation of the scriptures to set up his own little kingdom / narcisstic personality / etc. None of these categories are inclusive in and of themselves. There are crossovers and blending of traits......but, IMO, there are levels of vpw-adoration. When I exited twi almost nine years ago......I was deeply disgusted with twi's doctrine, the martindale mania, the micro-management of the corps (mostly) and a dozen other things. BUT..........I really hadn't put the pieces of the puzzle together concerning its founder, vpw. In so many ways, he was exempt from my critiquing of "things wrong in twi"..........UNTIL lots of us started comparing notes on waydale. Some folks are still in the process of coming to terms with "vpw-adoration." (idolizing the man) It does take time to untangle the web of deception. Peace.

Kit......yeah, some took pfal but were more focused on their goals and stayed grounded. Others, like me...... followed "the leader" into the indoctrination process of "committed service for God." In hindsight.........I see the many RED FLAGS. Heck, there were several flying back in "the good ole days"..... the hype, the celebrity-mog status, the undocumented snow-on-gas-pumps, the inresidence isolation, the money-spending constraints while inresidence, the stifling of showing emotion, etc. Back in the 70s......witnessing to bring others to a twi-fellowship was tough. Imagine TODAY.......the internet, the ex-way community, lawsuits, re-written twi history, the ousted martindale, pathetic involvement, an aging following, top-heavy staff personnel, etc. etc. The short stay might be NO STAY at all.

Oh for Pete's sake, Oldies..........quit SPINNING and DANCING around the room. Wierwille BETRAYED his committed followers......most notably, the WOWs and the Corps. As a young and naive WOW, catcup's sister came face-to-face with wierwille's sexual motorcoach lusts and, when she refused, she was kicked off the WOW field. And, its well documented on the forums how wierwille went after the Corps women..!!!!! Can't you see the snare...??? With no accountability for his actions......and being in a well-protected, multi-tiered yes-men hierarchy, wierwille's TRUE COLORS CAME FORTH. What he was.......behind closed doors..... was his TRUE CHARACTER. Those public appearances were just showmanship......no more, no less. Wierwille BETRAYED "his" corps........he sold many of us down the river. He couldn't even keep his commitment to us regarding THE CORPS CHALET. He gave it to his top yes-boy......craig. There is a HUGE chasm between............freely serving God without compulsion as opposed to being manipulated by a con-man who winks with his eyes and speaks with his fingers (Proverbs reference). But hey.........if you, Oldies, want to stay deceived about "the good ole way-daze" have at it. Doesn't look like too many folks here are buying what you are attempting to sell.

Linda.........I can SO relate. :) What did I see during my HQ Staff years? ...1) Unbridled adulation towards wierwille ...2) Several outbursts by wierwille over small stuff ...3) A mentality of elitism....only the very best work here ...4) A pecking order .... and a "who knows who" list ...5) Corporate politics / departmental squabbling ...6) Eyes are watching you......overly suspicious ...7) Trustees....."buddies" with the finance guys ...8) Perks, favortism abounded to those who "served the trustees" ...9) Alcohol....in refrigerators, in abundance. .......etc. etc. I was HUGELY disappointed.....from what I saw at twi's "mecca."

Good topic to discuss, polar bear. :) Here is something that I pondered during my tenure in twi...........why was twi's class entitled, The Renewed Mind (past tense)..?? The connotation, to me, implies that there is a final destination that is reached. Like a plateau of spirituality.....or something. In my bible, I read........"renewing" To me, this means that in this life.....it is an on-going process. I am responsible and accountable to keep myself from all appearances of evil. I strive to be "a vessel of honor" [i Tim. 2:21) and meet for the master's use by purging the things of the flesh. And yes.......I, too, believe that twi "sodomized" this great truth from the Scriptures. By the mid to late 70s, ....during wierwille's era....this terminology "the renewed mind" had been sodomized. Once again, the true scriptural meaning was lost via twi inbreeding of wayspeak. Thanks again, polar bear.

Hope......so good to "see" you. Say hi to hubby for me. :) Yeah, so much of the corps program had its roots in zealous competition and manipulation. Clearly, wierwille's premise for the corps program was miserably flawed and quickly drowned shortly after his death in 1985.

T-bone.....I know its a rhetorical question, but I'd like to answer it for others. :) Although wierwille had seen people come and go constantly throughout his "ministry".......it wasn't until the WOW program and Corps program that wierwille was able to really strongarm (with false prophecies) people to follow thru on their "commitments to God." Anything that stood in the way of fulfilling this/these commitments was "of the devil" and to be squelched. Pregnancies were to be aborted. Family affairs were to be disregarded. By the mid-70s, wierwille racheted up his vocabulary with the term "cop-out." Any and all corps who left twi, especially upper leadership, were viciously slandered and labeled on Tuesday Night's corps night. The term "cop-out" was incorporated into the wayspeak vocabulary. During those years, many 4th-6th corps were labeled as such.......and never heard from again. Funny, how wierwille had to incorporate his own branding of terminology.....not something from the Scriptures. That SHOULD have been our first red flag. :) On three different in-house, corps meetings........I personally saw wierwille VERBALLY ABUSE corps with a tongue-lashing with poisonous venom. All three incidents ended with wierwille yelling something about the person devil possessed and evil incarnate. I've shared these episodes before on this forum. Yeah...........BAD memories from wierwille and bot. The only good memories I have.......are linked with good-hearted people who love and loved God. But when weighed in the balance of a systematizing of spiritual abuse, the "good" is not reall all that good. <_<

Actually..........this thread is about perspective. The longer one stayed around slick vic and his manipulation...........the greater impact from its INDOCTRINATION PROCESS. Of course, you'd like to turn this thread on its ear.......but since you mentioned regret, I think it has a much broader perspective than that. It really keynotes THE ABUSE FACTOR in twi. Yeah, Rascal......has quite a slant to do, doesn't it. :)

It happened again yesterday. I came across another person who took the pfal class......and stayed with twi for almost three years. Yep, back in the early 80s, she took pfal and even attended the roa one year. Her comments were....."It was a good experience and I learned alot." Yet.......some things came up in her life and she left twi. BUT.......holds some good memories. This story seems to repeat itself over and over and over again. The local twig had some fun-loving, caring people who really loved God. Young-hearted and youthful energy was abounding. The music was God-inspiring and hearts were affixed on God's power to heal and deliver. It seems obvious that the longer one stayed, the INDOCTRINATION PROCESS overran the feel-good comaraderie of the local fellowships. The longer one stayed..........the more one was required to DO. The manipulation and micro-management of twi followers was exponentially increased when one became an "advanced class" grad. Yet, the corps program contained some of the ultimate experiences of an isolation cult training wherein the controlling, intimidating scream-fest leaders followed wierwille's lead. Yeah...........I stayed too long. And therefore, I have lots of BAD Memories.

the little god vpw.......

I'll add my comments in bold type. :)

Aren't the Scriptures....twi's ONLY rule of faith AND practice? Yep, that's what ole vp declared.........so..... Let's briefly look at I Timothy 3.....verse 2 says "A bishop (an overseer) then MUST be blameless." Strike one against wierwille. Vigilent (nope.....ole wierwille let the devil in). Strike two against wierwille. Sober (nope.......drambuie-drinking wierwille just couldn't stop). Strike Three against wierwille. Of the first THREE qualifications...........three strikes against wierwille. Shall I go on??????????? The list of qualifications for an overseer is long.......and wierwille failed on THE FIRST THREE LISTED. Yeah...........I repeat. Wierwille failed miserably as a true minister. :)

WD........and "taught" is in parenthesis, because it's a pseudo-type of taught. Like Ephesians........three chapters, DOCTRINE / three chapters, PRACTICAL APPLICATION.........true teaching is balanced with living God's Word. Anyone can hold the Bible......and talk scripture. The devil did, too. A true minister is measured in I Timothy 3..........and wierwille failed miserably. Wouldn't you agree? :)

polar bear, Yeah.....when we think back to even those inresidence corps days, the first three months were pfal reviews and norman vincent peale jargon. Just hammering in the pfal-programming. Always, stuff on Paul's commitment, douloses for the lord, bond-slaves, dog soldiers, athletes of the spirit, go-go, run-run, serve-serve. And, years later........to find out that wierwille was jumping the corps girls in his motorcoach and passing others off to howard. What a spiritual stench..!!! In all honesty............I think that I've discarded about 85% of that corps training junk. It was jaded with zealous competition and twi-service overload. Of course, foundational scriptures like John 3:16......those are hard to twist and manipulate, even by twi. Even as lightbearers..........where was THE LOVE..?? Man, those times of being sent out to "get a class together" were filled with confrontation and threats of dismissal. Sheeeeesh.

Well............maybe vpw "taught" some aspects on harmony in the home but I would have EXPECTED for vpw, an ordained minister, to refrain from rampant adultery and sexual predatory lusts. Isn't TRUE teaching............doctrine AND practice..?? Isn't a LIVING EPISTLE.......known and read of all men..?? I think so. It's pretty clear...

WD......you might want to re-read my first post. The FIRST question is..... "Sure, we heard hundreds of teachings on 'believing'........because it pushed wierwille's 'law of believing dogma' to the forefront (aka: the pfal class), but what about goodness, gentleness, compassion, care-giving, community involvement, parenting priorities, etc.???" Was The Way not designed to cover THESE subjects? :)

Yeah......the strategic placement of this teaching. Seems like ole 51-year-old wierwille knew just where to bait the hook, eh? Or.........how about the "big sins/ little sins are all the same in God's eyes" teaching? Can't remember any scripture to back up this piffle teaching? Was this justification for doing whatever because everyone sins.??

Gee.........reminds me of the Athletes of the Spirit Production. All the fawning......and encircling their leader.

Yeah..........I disagree that twi accomplished the purpose of "research, teaching and/or fellowship." IMO, they missed the mark during wierwille's era.....and miss the mark today. I DO see The Way Biblical Research Plaigarizing Ministry. I DO see The Way Biblical Teaching Inner-Circle-Indoctrination Society. I DO see The Way Biblical Non-Fellowship and Closed-Door Isolationism. Just my 24-year, corps trained, insider perspective............that's all.

Yeah......these twi-programs were considered equivalent to "walking with God." And further......the corps program morphed into an indoctrination for mog-service and slave labor. Funny.........how some of the vpw-apologists that come on these forums NEVER signed up for these programs, nor understand how crazy the absolute-power-mentality became in a controlled setting. It's so EASY.........to stand at a distance and point fingers.

Thanks, Mark......and your point is well taken. The earlier comments on the Catholic Church were simply a diversion tactic...........much like the "bait and switch tactics" that many twi leadership developed thru the years.