skyrider

With VPW.......it ends with a wishing he'd lived differently. VPW's epitaph: I wish I were the man I know to be. THAT about says it all.

"Training".....??? The way corps program was ALOT more about indoctrination......than training. The first three months inrez were pfal rehash and dale carnegie techniques. After chrismas break, was alot of twi classes (ie....witnessing & undershepherding, way tree, renewed mind, defeating the adversary, etc.) and then off to lightbearers -- to get a class together. The corps program was alot of refried and re-refried and re-re-refried and re-re-re-refried beans. But.....to reply to the original question......the late 60's culture, the pfal class to market at the right time, hefner, doop, and a few others to spearhead pockets of growth, and THEN the corps program to add an inner-sanctum "leadership" element to the mix.......wierwille's marketing strategy had a one-generation impact. IMO, had wierwille's system been genuine ----- it would have last PAST one generation. And, in hindsight.....it stands as a marketing phase or rubic cube fad. Lots of really good corps......and some bad apples. But for those who've lingered in twi, especially since the ouster of lcm.........even some of them are FINALLY slipping out the back door.

Ever notice.......that EVEN wierwille's tongues SOUNDED THE SAME when he demonstrated it to his class of students? Even after a separation of years, when wierwille spoke in tongues, it seemed like he had only two variations of LoShanta Malakasitos.

I'd rather let the Scriptures define it. I Timothy 3:1-16........defines the qualities & characteristics that should be found in Christian leadership. And, verse 15 states ...that thou mayest know how thou oughtest behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. Word by word, it's really clear and succinct what God's standard is.

FullCircle.......no apology necessary. Topics resurface all the time around here. Heck, with newcomers arriving here at GS all the time......it's bound to happen. Besides, with pages and pages of back topics.....who really ever goes back more than 3 or 4 pages anyway. Yeah......it's a mixed bag, for sure. One thing I try to keep in mind is........God worked lots of blessings and all despite the corrupting organization or its dis-trustees. :unsure:

What does THAT mean? Will CES openly recant their personal prophesy doctrines? Will CES openly recant their involvement with momentus? Will CES openly admit to being led astray by devilish deceit? Maybe these "leaders" should LISTEN to their followers!!! <_<

Well...........I got 3 out of 4 right. Thanks WD for digging out the mags.....I threw mine away years ago.

I don't know when CES "stopped openly endorsing Momentus"..... But I do know that JAL has been promoting it as late as August 2006.

ROA '75 was in Lima ROA '76 was in Sidney ROA '77 was at The Way Int. All those following -- at HQ I'll bet money on it.

Yeah........a long, long time ago (1974-1984) there WAS an exciting network of believers. Traveling around the country was fun and way believers would invite you over for dinner and let you spend a night or two. One could travel from coast to coast.....stopping night after night and hitting a twig now and then. Probably had alot to do with being lots younger back then, too. Mega-options......so MUCH variety. Most of these mega-churches has 5 or 6 services each weekend.Saturday evening............more casual and young-adult oriented Sunday 8:30 am..............for the early risers (and active people who have lots planned on Sunday) Sunday 9:30 am..............contemporary service and sunday school activities Sunday 10:45 am............the large, "full-service" gathering, most attendance Sunday 4 pm..................(or 5 pm) geared towards teenagers and young adults To me, it's no surprise why these mega-churches are a mega-center for Christian families........there is something for the whole family. Not like twi, where teenagers feel isolated and embarrassed to attend repetitive home fellowships with boring consistency. In the 90s, martindale basicly told parents to use the strong-arm approach with their teenagers and mark&avoid them if they refuse to stay committed, jumping thru the hoops, etc. IMO, to exclusively attend a home fellowship (8-16 regulars) is detrimental to one's spiritual growth.......so isolated and all. Sorta like being snow-bound with no electricity (or years).....and running your own space heater which could possibly burn down your own home.

Hamm.....yeah, 30 minutes max with a calming, imploring message. This church wasn't filled with people with plastic smiles and a veneer of christian-faith.......or 50 other slanderous stereotypes that I heard while in twi. Sure, I know......every church is different. But one of the reasons why I started this thread is to give a personal account of WHAT I FOUND. The further I step back and look at twi's "system of moving god's word"....... the more DISCONNECT from society I see. At least in this instance, this church is grounded into community involvement and rolling up their sleeves to assist in a variety of efforts. Twi is a self-serving, elitist, abusive-household that won't even walk across the street to help his neighbor. Good riddance to the smugness.

The following is MY experience of yesterday's attendance to a mega-church. IMO, this experience gives a contrasting viewpoint to twi's stance on "evil churches" and should be addressed. Vpw and lcm slandered churches and church activity in countless teachings throughout my twi-tenure. No surprise, there. According to one source, a mega-church consists of 2,000+ members in attendance on any given weekend. And, the mega-church trend has been growing rapidly in the past decade. Yesterday, along with three others.....I attended a mega-church to see first-hand what many have shared with me in the past year or so. And here are just a few of the positive points that I observed and/or found in their brochure. From what I heard, this church is nearing 7,500 weekly and is building another addition. ** Senior Pastor & his wife........leading by example, leading with a genuine concern ** Personal ministering.............an invitation for any one to come forward after the fellowship ** Very friendly and cordial.......no ushers herding me in and treating me like a number. ** Well-rounded diversity..........lots of diversity in dress, age, social status, race, etc. ** Uplifting Teaching.................30-minute teaching, thought-provoking truths with practical application ** Great Music..........................Worship service, support music, little girl sang to highlight pastor's teaching ** Mega-options .........Frontline Ministries -- International support for other country work .........Community Support Groups --- helping the underprivileged, homeless, abused wives, etc. .........GroupConnect --- about 1,700 involved in small group fellowships .........Staff Opportunities -- growing staff support needed .........Seminars --- Men's Support, Women's Support, Pre-marriage seminar, Divorce support, etc. .........Vacation Bible School .........And much, much more ** On-line website for announcements and support ** Financial updates -- listed in brochure My first experience at a Mega-church: I would rate it as EXCELLENT.

FullCircle........yeah, lots of us didn't see "fun and sunshine" at roa. Nor did LOTS of corps.....who showed up to work during corps week AND then helped put on roa working double shifts and mandatory meetings. Check out the thread..........The Backside of ROA

mdsnpp......so many times, when I consider pfal or my inresidence corps training, I remind myself of the truths regarding wheat and tares in Matt. 13:25-30: .....verse 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. .....verse 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. .....verse 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. IMO, some of the simple truths of pfal.........................................................wheat. Other stuff, i.e. absent christ, law of believing, tithe twisting, caste system......tares. One can't claim extremism.....not the twiers, not the ex-twiers......for indeed, there are some cults out there that add new meaning to bizarre or brain-washing. The truth is somewhere in the middle.......and so many of GS poster's experiences validate how multi-varied and complex this topic becomes. Hence, "soft extremism."

Jim......I seriously doubt whether "the light" has much to do with Carey's decision to stay at twi. IMO, he joins a long list of other 50+ year olds who knows where his bread is buttered. Having been on staff since 1979 or so.......he and Juanita are surrounded by another 40-75 who've made the same choice. Of course, the pay ain't all that great, but then small-town living, moderate rural lifestyle, small home off-grounds, friendly comraderie, a token seniority, behind-the-scenes work enviroment, kids-probably-off-to-college-now,..........why change?? For some.........it all depends how much you can stomach. Or.....how deeply you can bury your head in your work. And still....pat yourself on the back for "standing."

In reading through a link entitled Mirrors, the author handles extreme positions by the cults and anti-cult movements stating: * The good the group does is cancelled by turning it into an absolute. * The good the group does is cancelled by turning it into demonization. As presented, the cultic mindset is in green and the anti-cult mindset is in brown. Depending on which twi [i, II, or III] you experienced....coupled with whatever local leadership you had, these "green" perspectives will widely vary. To label twi in the "cult-green" variety.......many of us can draw upon specific abuse incidents, wide-spread teachings, in-house corps teachings slandering "cop-outs," us-versus-them mentality, conspiracy theories, etc. And yet.......some, on the fringes, never experienced the pressure, the mindset, the extremes. Conversely, to take an anti-cultic viewpoint in EVERYTHING related to twi is certainly overboard as well.....especially for some of us who witnessed the "softer side" in the early 70's. Clearly, it wasn't all absolutes....or none of us would have stayed so long. Some have come in GS and stated that this site is an anti-cult site. Again, another extreme position........to which, I find preposterous. There isn't even a ONE-SIZE FITS ALL viewpoint found anywhere around here......if you take the time to look. In the end, every discussion and experience has to be tempered with specific parameters regarding one's viewpoint. Most of us are aware that blanket statements and viewpoints are unacceptable on this site. Even today's twi....under rosalie's direction has loosened the reins abit, doncha think? And, it's apparent that many of twi's leadership are "sneaking around" and getting home mortgages.....in essence, giving twi's "no debt teachings" a one-finger salute. Heck, it might have alot to do with our OUTSPOKEN testimonies on their doctrine and practice....and lots of exitees. :) IMO, as a group...today's twi is SOFT EXTREMISM.

Kevlar......yeah, that class was a bummer for me too. I really expected SO MUCH MORE from the advanced class, having heard it lauded for a couple of years by then. And, having been on my wow year.......I'd been in several situations where hearing God's still, small voice was of great interest to me. Those definitions........uuuugh. I'd almost forgotten about them. Later, I learned that wierwille's bad and condescending attitude came from an ordeal with three 8th corps guys who had put together a research paper.......and it contradicted wierwille's teachings. Apparently, wierwille and martindale had confronted these guys and they refused to back down.....so vpw & lcm were still steaming from it. Geez........red flags a'flying..!!!!!

Okay....I'll take a crack at it. A long long time ago I can still remember How simple truths used to make me smile And I knew that in that class I got some answers from questions asked That made me fairly happy for a while. But legalism made me shiver With every policy they'd deliver Bad fruit at our doorstep I couldn't take one more step I can't remember if I cried When I learned about the evil ride But life was bustin' out inside The day my rose-colored glasses fried. chorus Bye, bye, to T - W - I Drove my Ford and, oh, it roared For my anger was high Them good ol' boys still drinking drambuie and rye Saying "this'll be the day that you die, This'll be the day that you die." verse 2 They didn't write for the God above But were self-centered in their love Cause the Bible tells me so For I believe in love and grace Extended to the whole human race And can we help others who feel misplaced Well, I know that life is fuller now 'Cause I no longer support their cash cow I've kicked off those muddy shoes Man, I dig new rhythm and blues I was a lonely teenage college kid Searching for truth and some doubt to rid How later I learned of things they hid The day my rose-colored glasses fried. verse 3 Now for years and years we're on our own With a house mortgage and a new car loan But that's not how it used to be When the region leader sang for the King of Spit In a coat he borrowed that was full of shiit And from the grave a voice that came from VP Oh, and while the King was screwin' around Rosalie ran his ship aground The lawyers joined the rattled fort With lcm-settlements out of court And while splinter groups began to build The Way's vice-grip began to yeild And the closet's secrets were now revealed The day martindale cried. verse 4 Helter Skelter in a scattering swelter So many flew to another splinter shelter Eight miles high and falling fast Life moved on with greener grass The preachers took their shots to recast With the critics on the sidelines in mass Now the half-time air was fresh and sweet And Greasespot showed up to greet We all got up to type Not just sit in nowheresville and gripe 'Cause the preachers tried to take the field The GS band refused to yield Do you recall what was revealed The day we were denied. Bye, bye to T - W - I That's enough....for now. :)

Last I knew.........there were three classifications for corps: ...1) Active Corps.....those who were actively taking yearly assignments and doing the requirements. ...2) Corps Alumni....those corps who no longer were meeting all the "active corps" requirements and yet, stood with twi. Martindale labeled them as "the best advanced class grads in the state" or something like that. ...3) DFAC........Dropped from Active Corps [amd generally slandered during a phone hook-up corps meeting so that all other corps would talk to you and possibly, exit twi as well.] Dot.....the "ritual" is an in-house character assassination of a corps' reputation wherein flat-out lies are told by the mog to keep twi blameless. The man who holds the microphone.........RULES. So thankful for the internet.....and GS. :)

TheHighWay..........of all greasespotters, YOU put the words to Bye bye, T-W-I Nice to be rolling down the highway of life.

Bumpy.....I agee, I think it happens to all generations passing by......but this WAS a segment of the life I lived. After all, the author should know or have experienced his writing and a singer, like Johnny Cash, to relate to his songs. And, if I was a songwriter and singer......my music would carry a thought-provoking message on cults and cult recovery. And further, though you are pursuing "the future"......some of us are stopping to "build bridges" for others who, too, shall pass THIS WAY. Bye bye, Mister twi.........still singing. :)

At times, a newcomer comes to Greasespot Cafe and the questions are posed......"Why are you still talking about VP and twi?" Or, "All this stuff was 20 years ago and you're still in the past...why?" Hmmmmm.........I seriously doubt that a short paragraph would sufficiently answer questions of that sort. For many of us, wayworld represented a period of time......a pivotal era dividing our youthful days from adult & cult awareness. For many, the 1970's and 80's were a time of twi immersion and now, posting here on GS reflects a microcosmic perspective........whether spiritually, mentally or metaphorically. And, if I wrote a song, I'd entitle it...........Bye bye, Mister Twi Like the song, Bye bye, Miss American Pie......see www.understandingamericanpie.com/......there are vast interpretations of this song's meaning. Hopefully, someone can add this link. And, just like American Pie......where the song depicts deep reflection of a changing American culture, music greats like Buddy Holly & the Beatles & others, social unrest, assassinations, etc......so too, would "my" song reflect: 1) the long goodbye of spiritual innocence, 2) the simple hearted who love God, 3) the dark shadows of evil men, 4) shifting standards of acceptance, and 5) lots of ambiguity and misplaced allegiance. Everyone saw a different twi........coming from different family backgrounds, different religions, different leadership, different commitments, etc. But, in general terms, the overriding desire for acceptance, friendship, devotion,......were grounded on the far shores of betrayal. Maybe a song would answer these questions from certain posters? :)

Yep......it was the bottom-of-the-barrel-of-the-bunch. One segment was entitled "Unfinished Business".......where craig made references to rural homes and property that had broken fences, unfinished buildings, things in disarray, etc....trying to make the point that a believer's family stays disciplined and focused. Uuummm, craig.............kinda left your marriage and family "unfinished" wouldn't you say???? This audio class, at a $30 price, with a two-page handout was martindale's attempt to flush all the old wineskins, aka vpw-classes, from twi around the 1995 era.

Yeah........wierwille concocted The Way Tree set-up to fit his agenda. Imagine, after "all those YEARS of studying nothing but the Bible"........wierwille can't grasp the truths of THE ONE BODY WITH CHRIST AS THE HEAD as plainly written in verse after verse...????? The Way Tree class was total bullpatooie......and got discarded around 1979/ 1980 (I think). Even the upper twi leadership could no longer support it.

Yeah.....the TWI-lite zone. Gee, where have we heard THAT before?? .....like 50 times?? How many books have been written about cult mentality? Intervention & recovery from cults? Cult awareness groups and websites? Phychologists explore and expose it. And movies portray it. Sure, some mock and are condescending to others who got ensnared in the trappings......*shrug* No matter how many different ways these stories and experiences are told, I am deeply aware that there is/was a spiritually abused person on another keyboard reaching for independence and some closure. For sure, many "tested the waters" and didn't care to partake.....good choice. Others not only tested the waters, but bathed in them daily for years and some even swam with the sharks. Welcome to Greasespot Cafe. :)