skyrider

LarryP.....one of the best reads throughout those Waydale days. I always enjoyed his wit and candor. Man, it would be great to see him on the boards again. You are missed. :(

Maybe a typo?........i.e. no set requirements. :)

That's the problem with those offshoot groups.... I'd rather find a good church or Bible study group where Christ is the head.

Yes......I was in one of those tough positions. What came out of the 1996 March Leadership Meetings at HQ was an intensity of corps micro-management and via Martindale's directives the Region Leaders were the ENFORCERS. That's right.....verbatim, Martindale ordered them to "eyeball their limb coordinators once a month." In other words, get in their face -- eyeball to eyeball -- every month [and strictly monitor every corps person in their state]. From what I observed, Moynihan and Panarello were the front-runners of these NEW ENFORCEMENTS. They were the senior proto-types of this new Region Coordinator that martindale was manufacturing. Soon, the younger region men aspired to these prototypes and the martindale legalistic system of "mog-praise." Yes, these guys received martindale's praise on those weekly corps phone hook-ups. The chokehold in twi was advancing toward its zenith. Moynihan had his talor-made agendas for his region: Panarello, and his organized file system, had his. As a limb coordinator reasonably far from hq, I was able to ward off the encroaching evil and protect the people for quite some time. To the best of our ability, we did not go to the believers' homes and strictly demand looking at their finances or child-rearing techniques or strongarm their individuality, etc. It was tough.......really tough, struggling with the "new twi" and wave after wave of mog-adulation mentality. Of course, from this time and distance --- it all seems so absurb and bizarre. But the analogy of the frog in luke-warm water and raising it to a boil speaks volumes to me. On one hand, I am disgusted that I stayed with twi until 1998.............on the other hand, I pray that I helped to thwart some of the waves of evil doctrine from such wonderful believers who desired to live for God. May the God of all mercy pass righteous judgement on those who kept their hearts and motives fixed on true service. It took me several years to see that Martindale was made in the Wierwille-image. And, therefore......even lcm allowed his ego and arrogance racheted up by wierwille's statements and agenda. Peace.

WW.....good point about the free flow of information. Even at major events, twi attempted to micro-manage our time and to keep local (twig) oversight in place. Crap.....most of us didn't go to these major events to see the same ole people. We wanted to be with others who we'd been with thru the years. And yeah....rekindle our friendships and check the horizons. Twi likes to keep treating people like adolescents......where THEY are in control. The condescending attitudes in twi are sickening....starting with martindale/rivenbarker.

Edi.....in 1995, Lcm publically stated that he was shutting down ROA because the parents weren't overseeing their children/teenagers properly and there was lots of sex in tent city. In so many words, Lcm said that he felt the ROA had run its course and was becoming an old wine skin....and turning the event "into a class" helped to salvage the rock that year. Personally, I believe that the REAL reason for shutting down ROA was MONEY. In March/April of 1995, Lcm announced to the trustees that God gave him revelation to put all field corps on twi's payroll. By August, at corps week.......all field corps met with twi's Personel Department head and salary requirements were established for each corps, each couple. Since twi pays on a "need basis"......every year all the corps from coast to coast NEED to be at corps week and rock of ages. Lots of travel money, gas, car expense, vehicle maintenance, lodging, flights (?), etc. etc. Lcm did NOT calculate the cost of putting all field corps on twi's payroll AND IT SOON BECAME OBVIOUS that this was decision would change all the dynamics of twi's future. Thus, ROA was cancelled......and by the second corps meeting (early September), only a short list of corps were assigned to work at WIB. Once again, all things changed. When twi had to foot the bill of corps expenditures, it changed everything. Three crazy years of this......and martindale said that THE REVELATION CHANGED and the corps were no longer needed on payroll.

From this distance...........the DOUBLE STANDARD is quite amusing. If low-ranking corps were sent over to europe and it "was a bust" then upper leadership would try to sniff out the corps' lack of spirituality. BUT.......when the esteemed (cough, cough) bob and dottie go over there to "move the word" and it doesn't happen, then the bod quickly assigns them to another situation to save face. C'mon Bob & Dottie.............WHERE IS YOUR BELIEVING? Were the devil spirits bigger and darker over there? Or, was it the sparse adulation at your doorstep that made for a "bust" situation? Some of us see the hypocrisy that laces thru twi's bod and their decisions.

Twi is so ANTI-FAMILY in its structure, staff employment and sales promotions (ie way corps). Just another wierwillism throwback in an effort to reinvigorate the "good ole days." IMO, the long-standing innies are not that gullible anymore. :unsure:

I may be wrong......but I still think this is a cover-up for a dismal program that's gone belly-up. And.....maybe ole bob & dots weren't well received in europe anyways. As wayworld turns and turns........

In hindsight, today's defunct corps program and poem rendition could more aptly read: NOT wierwille's pleasure bus, And lofty ideas of cornfield claim, Where plagairism and fuss, Mistake twi's legalistic mandates for life's fullest aim, NOT the board's renown Or wierwille heritage and its estate, No, none of these can crown Twi's cultdom with light and make it truly great. But Christ as The Master, strong and wise, Who teaches the meek of the earth, a spiritual task, Finding God -- the richest prize And eyes are then opened....and minds now ask. The program's premise was wrong from the get-go. And wierwille failed miserably.

Bolshevik......yeah, I knew that but guess it slipped my mind. Seems like a steady spiral downward, closely monitoring the cashflow and investments, until the small circle of emeritus elders stop running the vpw-bookclub. Looks like the dull denomination is ruling with a heavy hand (see corps poem) and the corps program is all but dead.

Kinda funny............we talked about this on Waydale back in 1999/2000. At the time, I suggested that the corps could be trained at the Kipp Farm and thereby, be at hq for sns teachings but separate during the week. Plus, the farm work would keep them isolated from other department stuff. Now, with the numbers so low.......all of the corps could easily sit in the Kipp Farm living room.

Why are they ALWAYS looking in the rearview mirror to "advance" forward? What a weird way to try and drive twi's bus.

Belle......no kidding? Besides the preparation list of things to bring.......there will be a rules and regulations sheet at the camp gunnison registration table and all meals are mandatory and roll call will be taken and twig time every morning at 11:00 and scheduled activities after supper, etc. etc. Unless these are MANDATORY trips to camp gunnison, I can't imagine that it's anything but another wrinkle of providing something new. Or.........it's a diversion tactic to keep the focus AWAY from another corps location closing. After all........Tinnie, NM closed --- check. Emporia, KS closed --- check. Rome City, IN closed --- check. Camp Gunnison closed (for training corps) --- check. Hmmmmmmmm..........twi's corps and sales personnel are dwindling FAST. And, imo --- even those faithful innies DO NOT WITNESS anymore, because the whole thing is just too embarrassing anymore.

Maybe it's just me.........BUT, for real, I don't see LOTS OF VISITORS traveling to Camp Gunnison to make it a worthwhile "vacation spot." I dunno......except for those in a 100 mile radius, how many innies are gonna want to fly into Denver, rent a car, go to camp gunnysack, and unpack for some needed rest and relaxation? IMO, many would find it more relaxing to spend time with their kids, go to their ballgames and graduations, visit their parents and siblings, and NOT ANSWER THE PHONE OR ATTEND ANY TWI MEETINGS FOR TWO WEEKS. C'mon twi.... can't you understand the simplest of relaxations. Hint, hint......it has NOTHING to do with location. Peace and some relaxing moments can be easily found at a nearby park or beach. This "camp gunnison open for visitors" will probably be as big a hit as vpw's all-terrain "snow-way."

nyunknown.....you might want to keep reading. Just to point out a few things: Wierwille set up the cult structure and arrogant know-it-all mentality that permeated twi. Wierwille endorsed "all women belong to the king" and mentored craiggers. Wierwille set the example of a plagairist, a drunkard, a sexual predator, an unaccountable abuser, etc. Wierwille corraled the corps program with isolationism, intimidation, fear tactics and death threats. Wierwille and his inner circle kept the facade of his spirituality from public view. Men like Peter J. W@de abandoned wierwille in the late 60's. Wierwille died wishing he'd lived a higher standard. Need I go on?

Waydale posters.......did you hear that? WAYDALE SAVED MY WHOLE FAMILY

Maybe she has............but I am NOT impressed. LOTS of us have been exposing twi ills for EIGHT YEARS..........most notably, on WAYDALE and GREASESPOT. AFTER some 350 clergy have left twi and refused to suck up to the wierwille/martindale/mog idolatry. AFTER the corps numbers have dwindled from 3600 (?) to 600 (?) -- of which, probably about 250 corps are on the staff payroll..............it's OBVIOUS that wierwille had a system that was corroding (duh). And, wasn't rosalie's longsuit supposed to be administrative planning.....(cough, cough) WHATEVER rosalie is doing today to stop twi's bleeding...........IMO, it's been discussed on Greasespot a hundred times before she took any action. Hardly classifies her in the "moving spiritually" category.

"The modern-day Jews are no more God's chosen people than the Apaches."

Speaking of "dress-up"....... Dot, were you around for the insane policies of "dress-up" by lcm during the full-time corps experiment (1995-1998)? Anyways........Martinfail concocted the logic that if the hq corps/staff people had to dress-up for those corps morning meetings, then the field corps [on phone hook-ups] NEEDED TO DO THE SAME. So, across the country......there'd be TWO PEOPLE (husband and wife) in those "corps cities" where they'd be all dressed up in suit/tie/dove lapel pin and wife in nice dress/make-up/jewelry/etc ALL DRESSED UP SITTING AT THEIR KITCHEN TABLE TO LISTEN TO A DAMN PHONE HOOK-UP AT TEN O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. Martindale threatened us one time and said that he didn't want to find out that some corps was sitting in their pajamas listening to the corps teaching. Therefore, he EXPECTED the husband or wife to inform their next-in-line leadership if violations were happening in the "corps morning dress code." IMO, it was wierwille's over-the-top bravado that made this a "dress-up" affair......and martindale, the ever-obedient robot, just couldn't see the insanity of this legalism.

I remember when corps night was on Tuesday night......and at hq, food services routinely served apple crisp and ice cream as the supper meal. Yeah, the main course was a major sugar buzz....especially since lots of us guys would go back for a second helping. Oh, and those "literal translations according to usage" were a huge waste of time. By the next morning, they were filed away and rarely reviewed ever again. So all those hours and hours and hours of vpw corps nights......I TRASHED and never used them again. Ever. Besides.......during my inrez years, we were 1) going thru the Ephesians tapes, 2) hitting Thessalonians during our "study periods", 3) being taught Acts by the corps coordinators, and 4) robotically taking vigorous notes while wierwille gave us alot of his private interpretation of Romans.

Rosalie Fox Rivenbark and company........have administered an agenda that is reaching PITIFULLY LOW in twi.

The official Way Historian confirms that vpw stole and taught Rev. BG Leonard's original class. Mrs. Wierwille confirms in her book, Born Again To Serve, that vpw taught Rev. BG Leonard's class in October of 1953 after having sat through it twice. The Ohio students were considered GRADS when they sat thru vp's teaching of Leonard's material. It may not matter to others that vpw blatantly plagairized.......BUT IT MATTERS TO ME.

Lone Wolf.........if you were around twi from 1991-2000 like you stated, then you should have bought Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again To Serve since it was basically a requirement for all "standing grads." Mrs. Wierwille details the historical account of Victor Paul Wierwille from 1916-1961.....documenting family history, the wierwille heritage and farmstead, old man wierwille paying for victor's education and doctorate, and much more. From Mrs. Wierwille's viewpoint, I believe that she gives an HONEST and VERY DIFFERENT perspective of vpw's background and growing ministry. Yes, vpw mentioned his learning from other spiritual men. Yes, he even publically noted many of these men throughout the years and has pictures of them in the Founder's Room in The Prevailing Word Auditorium........BUT mrs. wierwille's accounting of these men, their classes and seminars and the IMPACT on young wierwille is VERY REVEALING. IMO, she comes forth with a humble thankfulness for these men's ministries who help to guide and shape a young ohio preacher who quested for answers. Like others, when I wrote my corps research paper......ALL SOURCES had to be footnoted and documented and the bibliography was just as important as the research paper itself. No exceptions. Funny, how twi didn't just let us VERBALLY cite our sources after the paper was written. In hindsight, it is very apparent that wierwille was sloppy in research, careless in documenting his sources, deceptive in claiming Leonard's class material as "his own" and a host of other literary and editorial rules. Heck, none of us would have minded the footnotes to Leonard's work, and Stiles and Bullinger. But then......it doesn't build the image that we've heard a thousand times that "God told me that He would teach me The Word like it hadn't been known since the first century if I'd teach it to others." LOTS and LOTS of this "Word" was known.......wierwille stole it from other men's ministries. His MOG-status claim is a big fat lie and leads me to think that he was puffed up with pride and chose to deceive. I find it interesting that you viewed my post on "VPW was the real deal" today........and then started this thread.

VPW was the real deal........????? In Mrs. W's book, Born Again To Serve, she writes of vp's struggles, doubts, uncertainty, pleading for answers, ready to quit..........UNTIL vpw goes to Rev. B.G. Leonard's class, "Gifts of the Spirit" in March of 1953. According to Mrs. Wierwille, her husband was THRILLED (her description) with this new learning. In fact, vpw and mrs. and don, and two carloads of people (basically vpw's "congregation") went to Calgary, Alberta for Rev. B.G. Leonard's next class in June/July of 1953. Since vpw was considered a grad, he was not included in the class picture of new students. Rushing home after Rev Leonard's class.....vpw contacted relatives and friends to be a part of these teachings for a class scheduled for October 1953. Following mrs. wierwille's account in her book, vp took Rev. Leonard's class and taught it as his own -- no charts, no syllabus, no handouts. Interesting that "The Way" was incorporated in 1953 and vpw quickly started copyrighting "his material" (something that Rev. Leonard had not done). Also, the early name of the class, "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" was distanced from Leonard's ministry by tweaking some things and changing the name to "Power for Abundant Living." Those Ohio students that sat in Leonard's class in Canada were considered GRADS WHEN THEY SAT THROUGH VP'S OCTOBER CLASS. Months later, Rev. Leonard found out about wierwille stealing Leonard's class and work.......and thereafter, copyrighted his work and prefaced his books with a plagairism notice. In looking closely at Rev. Leonard's work and style..........vpw stole Leonard's class, his examples, his class set-up style, his documenting of classes, his class picture, his Canadian Christian Press with American Christian Press, and more. Mrs. Wierwille's book also details how Dr. E.E. Higgins introduced vpw to Dr. Bullinger's books and research. According to Mrs. Wierwille's historical writing, vpw acquired and consumed every book and bit of research by Dr. Bullinger in searching for truth.....much of which appears in the 1968 filming of pfal. Was vpw the real deal.........????? Hardly.