skyrider

To add to this...... IMO, as the arrogance and legalism mounted in twi.......Wierwille and Martindale and Geer strongly believed in the MOG-doctrine, and thus....The true Word emanates, in present time, from the Man of God holding the microphone and keeps its purest intent as it passes down the chain of command via teaching tapes and magazine articles. The corps leadership were to adhere to the strictest standards of allegiance and servitude.....like "messenger boys" after wierwille, and later martindale (and later, geer -- after the "patriarch paper")......had spoken. Therefore, the free-floating and unrestricted twig coordinators had NO PLACE in the ever-tightening control hand of twi. Had wierwille envisioned this tight-fisted control when he started the corps program? I don't know. It doesn't surprise me that some come on GS and blame the nazi-corps for screwing up those "sweet twigs/special times and confronting issues. But what DOES SURPRISE ME.....is that some new posters or vpw-apologists seem to be unable to connect the dots back to wierwille. In 1986, when geer started reading his "dr.wierwille was our patriarch" paper and usurped twi's trustees' authority over holding the keys to the kingdom (i.e. housing and holding forth THE TRUE WORD from hq)...... he stepped into "the man of god's shoes" and now, "the true word" was emanating out of gartmore. Gee, I thought that we were being taught aspects of the Grace Administration.......NOT the Patriarchal Administration. Or, was twi just a MLM company? Or, adapting to a pope/peasant pyramid plan? Things were GOING SOUTH so fast.......I should have invested in a sunscreen/tanning company.

I absolutely remember vpw saying this about the interstate highways taking up too much valuable farmland...... and that there should be double-decked highways all across America to conserve farmland. And, I seem to remember that vpw said he took this idea to the state transportation offices and was laughed at for even proposing such a concept.

My first year on hq staff was 1979-1980. THAT year, wierwille was driving the ministry toward the corporate scene with a vengence. 1) The outer shell of the OSC made way for loads of office space on its south side. 2) Emogene was one of the first to move "her department" - the bookstore - into the OSC. 3) The simple meals in the basement of the BRC were no more. The OSC Dining Room opened. 4) The Sunday Night Serviices moved out of the BRC into the make-shift OSC Dining Room. 5) The Trustees made sure that their offices were across the hall from the Finance Department. 6) Wierwille was busy pushing lofty "visions" of Camp Gunnison, the Corps Chalet, the LEAD program, etc. 7) Way Productions and music contests were swarming with activity. 8) The Corps Program was busting tail to train leaders on FIVE different campuses. 9) Move over "fond memories"...........enter swiftly, and smugly, corporate twi. And, two years after all of this, the ceremonious fan-fare for the president-elect and soon-president LCM was reaching its zenith........precisely at the time of twi's 40th anniversary. Rare beyond rare....was one to find a simple, God-first, Christ-in-you, He-walks-with-me-and-He-talks-with-me, loving and caring twig into the 80's. Wierwille and Martindale were phasing out the twig coordinators of yester-year and replacing them with corps-trained-quality-approved corps twig coordinators. Say all you want about "the good ole days"........BUT KNOW THIS, wierwille and martindale drove these new leaders (corps) to be aggressive and confrontational and impersonal wanting to oust the free-floating and unrestricted twig coordinators who held little allegiance to wierwille or twi. Bye, bye.........sweet twigs.

JavaJane.......yeah, it became so prevalent with legalism in the 90's that some believers would move WHEN their respected leadership received a different assignment to avoid lcm's legalistic liasons. In fact, I had several who moved to my state when we moved.....guess they liked the love and respect I gave them, eh? As crazy as it sounds now, we really believed that we could "right the ship" if we stayed faithful and strong on the things of God. But, in the end, NO AMOUNT of time, effort, love, prayer, questioning, etc. could cause twi to turn to the Lord. It just wasn't going to happen.....and we parted ways. Thank you, God. Rascal.........I hear what you are saying and agree. In our best intentions, we shielded our areas and branches from twi's deceitful underbelly.......but it only served to prolong the inevitable. The gangrene of arrogance and legalism was spreading throughout every class and program and teaching. Today, what many of us see from twi is paralyzing the heart and soul of many. Hindsight is 20/20.....if I knew then, what I know NOW.....I would have left twi in 1979 and never looked back.

Just pondering here.... It seems that whenever this topic of vpw's proclamation It's the Word, the Word and nothing but the Word surfaces.....two camps are formed here at GS: 1) The Word.....represents the original God-breathed word that holy men of God spoke as they were moved by holy spirit OR 2) The "Word" wherein vpw takes many liberties when referring to things in Scripture that he just knows but cannot document. I think that most Christians would desire to understand "the first camp of thought"....and desire to study the holy writ that God made available. But, in my opinion, the problem with many ex-twi followers' concept and understanding of "the Word".....is warped and shaky because vpw KEEPS ADDING AND AUGMENTING HIS WAY through the pfal class that doesn't follow sound, biblical research. And, taking one step further.....when wierwille held his bible high in the air and proclaimed It's the Word, the Word and nothing but the Word........NOW, other thoughts arise in my little brain. For instance...John 1:1-3 and John 1:14......in brief, GOD is noted as "The Word" and in verse 8, "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us" namely Jesus Christ, the incarnate Word. So, are we saying: 1) It's God, God and nothing but God...............(God and His Word are inseparable, right?) 2) It's the God-breathed Word, the God-breathed Word and nothing but the God-breathed Word as holy men of God spake as they were moved by Holy Spirit 3) It's Jesus, yes Jesus and nothing but Jesus Christ If we're talking about THIS..............count me in. Hallelujah If we're talking about the pfal class with wierwille's additions.........count me out.

This needs repeated. Thanks.

Back in "the day".......(early 70's).......we were told three things to describe a twig: 1) self-governing 2) self-propagating 3) self-sufficient (??....not sure about that one) Anyways, EACH TWIG was to be self-governing. The way I took that to mean, the twig coordinator had the right to SELF-GOVERN his little group of twigees. Of course, I believe that this was in accordance with the next higher unit (or something to that effect).....meaning, the branch coordinator was there with some oversight as well. Do any of you remember this stuff? But basically, the twig coordinator and his/her assistant would carry the responsibility before God to make decisions that directly affected the twig.....and that's where self-propagating (growth) came in. When a twig was thriving with God's love and power, the dynamics of it attracted people.....LOTS of people. Sometimes, twigs grew as big as 35-40.....and didn't want to go anywhere else. I don't quite remember how long these 3 qualities were emphasized, but I think that by around 1978 or so twi began phasing out that terminology and replacing it with MORE BRANCH OVERSIGHT. IMO, there were situations where twig coordinators SPIRITUALLY SENSED TWI'S CORRUPTNESS and knew that things were going awry at hq. Therefore, holding onto "the class" and digging in their heels was one way of trying to retain the truth and live the truth. The corporate scene was coming down the pike. Maybe that's why some reflect fondly back to "the good ole days."

This topic surfaces every so often and I find it SO INTRIGUING.......My twig coordinator protected us from twi. When someone makes this statement, it is usually followed up by criticism toward the limb coordinator, the branch coordinator, or the corps in general. What is BEHIND such a statement? Is someone saying.... 1) My twig coordinator protected us from twi policies and regulations that were absurd? 2) My twig coordinator protected us from twi's hardness and beauracratic dogma? 3) My twig coordinator protected us from wierwille's bad-azz corps? 4) My twig coordinator protected us with his love that was NOT seen from upper leaders? 5) My twig coordinator protected us...........??? If one saw more and more spiritual hardness THE CLOSER ONE GOT TO HQ, then shouldn't that have been a red flag indicating that it was coming from the root? the trustees? the mog? Why would one NEEEEEEED protection.....if twi was God's ministry? Anyone? :blink:

What I find funny is your viewpoints of EXTREMISM.......aka black/white thinking. It's THAT type of cult-like regimentation that we've discussed on these boards time and time again. You learned (and hold onto) this cliche.....It's the word, the word, etc. "the rest of you idolized"..........(and you know this HOW?) Other posters here "reject EVERYTHING vpw ever did"...... You know, deciderator......if you go back and read your first couple of posts on this thread, YOU CRITICIZED twi as an organization, YOU CRITICIZED the limb and branch coordinators in your area and stated that your first twig coordinator was protecting those in your twig from twi/leadership. In so many ways, your viewpoint is not that different from so many others here. Also, you are making huge presumptions here......not really knowing me (as I do NOT know you). But knowing that you talk about the military alot......sounds like not only your family (father?) was a military man, but you went into the military as well. And, your posts strike me as one who took pfal while in the military......and possibly your twig coordinator was military too. THEREFORE.....you guys and the limb/branch leadership had a distant (and bristled) arrangement. I could be wrong on this.....but I do know that military personnel lived in what I call a "parallel environment"........in the way ministry, but not indoctrinated by vp's leadership. Sounds like you've "made your mark" in life and society......but please know that others were deeply indoctrinated, abused and hurt under wierwille's leadership AND many europeans had the same types of experiences under cgeer's leadership. Surely, you can understand THAT! And, surely.......if you walk the talk, you can have compassion on the broken-hearted, the oppressed, the captives....like Jesus did. The gospels are full of records where Jesus was one-on-one helping and ministering. Thanks for visiting GS.

Well then.....if I LOVE like Jesus Christ loved, then I would confront pharisee/sadducee doctrine and warn the people rather than go sit in the synagogue and read the scrolls. Exposing the evil-workings of wolves in sheeps' clothing IS walking in love. Bringing the light of truth to shine on twi's traditions of idolatry and spiritual smugness IS walking in love. Unveiling the destructive "training" of the corps program just might deter some from twi's snares. And, it is ironic that you come here judging GS posters and their "attacking people" while holding in high esteem men like Cgeer and others. Have you not READ The Passing of a Patriarch? Have you not HEARD how he ripped the trustees in some 18 pages (?) of his journal of notes? Have you not THOUGHT it unloving for cgeer to publically attack many of twi's upper leadership....and later, spiritually stereotyping all twi's clergy in one lump sum? Sounds like you have an agenda here....decide-o-right. Time here at GS is only a fraction of my life. Like many others, I have a full plate of responsibilities and haven't the time to patronize this lively-discussion Cafe. Of course, a good food-fight can always arouse a crowd if one is so inclined. Welcome to GS.

Calculating and cunning, twi fostered a sub-culture of....1) manipulation and 2) dependency. Through subtle manipulation, specifically the mog-doctrine....we were led to believe in a pyramid-like structure where the mog and his classess had ALL the answers. And, from day one, we were told to sit in our chairs and stay quiet........they will tell us what we need to know. In this cultish environment, a child-like dependency was common and, indeed, encouraged. Grown adults were treated like children, singing children songs, and disregarding adult decisions (i.e. career choices, investments, home purchases, community involvement, etc). Kinda like a pavlov experiment, we salivated everytime the bell would ring (and another class would run). No longer dependent on twi....................the ADULT develops self-initiative and moves forward. :)

Haven't looked at those corps objectives (later termed principles) for a long time, but I'll take a stab at it. #1 Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness. #2 Receive training in the whole Word so as to be able to teach others also. #3 Physical training making your physical body the vehicle of communication of the Word as vital as possible. #4 Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the ministry. #5 Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need. Martindale might have changed them abit, but that's how I remember the corps principles.

Once again.....Greasespot helped to expose errors and injustices and was instrumental in this process and happy reunion. Amazing how far-reaching this little website can be...!! :)

What was corps objective #4 ..... and didn't wierwille tell us that this was revelation from God? Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the ministry Practice believing.........to WALK in God's power? No Practice believing.........to HEAL the broken-hearted? No Practice believing.........to UNBURDEN the oppressed? No Practice believing.........to SET CAPTIVES FREE? No Practice believing.........to bring GLORY TO GOD? No Practice believing to bring SHOW ME THE MATERIAL ABUNDANCE....... Wierwille's corps program had MAJOR FLAWS in its foundational approach. The APPLICATION OF ERROR in twi was being taught to the corps/leadership.....and permeated twi for over a decade before wierwille's death. And, some wonder why there is such diverse viewpoints here at GS?

Yeah.....some good lessons learned and bad cliches and principles, including the "absent-Christ" doctrine that permeated twi. Now, after taking pfal......you needed protection from the inner-workings of twi?Kinda ironic, isn't it? :) Yes....the doctrine AND application of God's truth. Some here stayed through DIFFICULT TIMES for 20-25 years....trying to "do the Word" and fix the problems. Many were thrown out, mark & avoid, because of their attempts to "do the Word." Now many come here to clarify twi's doctrinal errors, expose abuses, denounce the mog/celebrity status (idolizing men), and in effect....hold forth the truth of the scriptures. And, let's not forget....for many, GS is a very small segment of our lives. Family, church, neighbors, community......lots of do. "The Word" as taught in pfal is highly suspect in SO MANY AREAS and on SO MANY LEVELS. The simple truths and the simplicity that is in Jesus Christ............I love.

Yes.....one must believe GOD'S PROMISES to be pleasing to God. No.......twi's form of "the law of believing" where one "believes" for red drapes, close-to-store parking places, green lights, unrealistic gas mileage, etc. is NOT based on scripture. At times, when God is taking care of His children, He intervenes with blessings (or miracles) that are beyond His written Word.

Time and time again, we heard this. Then.......around 1979 (?) I remember Rev. Lonnxl Johnsxn's article in the Way Magazine entitled Giving and Receiving clarifying this misnomer of "giving equals receiving." Softly, and pointedly....he exposed some error that we'd heard from veepee and lcm. Gee....even an ole farmer knows better. Plant one seed of corn and how many do you RECEIVE back??? NOT just one. Or, think in terms of......Pressed Down, Shaken Together, and Running Over.

Whether some were literal or figurative.......my point was that TWI highlights some aspects and gives the silent treatment to other aspects. Most here realize that vpw's "the law of believing" was one of the cornerstones of his pfal class and corps indoctrination.

Oldiesman......I thought that I'd repost my comments so that you, and others, might better have the context of your "walking in love" reply. Besides "cherry-picking" verses that twi deems fits their agendas.....they ALSO "chop down other trees" that stand in their way. Why doesn't twi deal with the adultery issues OR the love God/love your neighbor issues like Jesus Christ did.....yet, they quickly highlight his words when it comes to believing?

Thanks PB. And.......every notice how twi/vpw highlights the pauline epistles over and over again in examples for the born-again believer to follow in the steps of Paul/Timothy/Silas. After all, these verses are written TO us and specifically addressed TO the believers. YET.....in addressing believing, twi cites Jesus' words. What about adultery? Does twi highlight Jesus' words? What about loving God and your neighbor? Does twi highlight Jesus' words? Doesn't it seem hypocritical to "jump from adminstration to administration" and CHERRY-PICK the verses and concepts that propel one's agendas......while, at the same time, dish out vehement reproof when someone doesn't apply the love of God as twi dictates? I think so. If we are going to cite Jesus as a prime source for "believing".........why don't we ALSO cite Jesus as a prime source for WALKING IN LOVE?

When something bad happens to the mog or twi leadership.....its because the adversary is so mad that they've taken such a mighty stand on the Word and is fighting them via his many evil methods. When something bad happens to the lowly believer or corps person.....its because he/she is NOT believing God and needs someone more "spiritual" to point it out to them Oh.....I wonder if Dr. Wierwille was believing to die prematurely from cancer?

There you have it...........corps folks. When going inresidence corps, one of the first series of classes we took was pfal......again. Uuuugh. Doncha know that this "believing equals receiving" dogma was book-knowledge, spiritual smarts to all who crossed over the threshold of the corps program. And, to bookend the extreme application of vicster's doctrine (aka "the law of believing) was the LEAD experiment, er experience.....with final grades being given out by the LEAD staff, and footnoted with the corps coordinator's comments. This, in turn, validated your "believing" status......and certified that you were the real deal, with corps diploma soon-in-hand. For all intents and purposes, the LEAD experience was a corps requirement.......reaching higher certifiable status than one's research paper. In this manner, the MOG and company held full control as to whether (or NOT) you were BELIEVING and OBEDIENT to the parameters of the hitchhiking/LEAD/money returned guidelines of the LEAD experience. <_<

The lcm incident was three years earlier. Of course, martindale never offered up his little brain-dead incident to teach "what NOT to do".......but rather, unloaded screaming reproof regarding small areas of oversight of later corps partners.

L. Craig Martindale and his woman partner were hitchhicking to TFI. Near Oklahoma City, at a truck stop..... he and this corps woman were trying to find another ride to California. At approximately the same time, he found a trucker who offered to take them westward and the corps woman found a ride also. L. Craig Martindale, in his arrogant competitive nature, said "Well then, you take your ride and I'll take mine and I'll see you at TFI." Martindale DESERTED this woman and never gave it a second thought. Thankfully, (but no thanks to Martindale's reckless stupidity) they both made it to TFI safely...........this corps woman later became my wife. And, Martindale later became the corps director.

And......not only should LEAD had been voluntary (with or without the hitchhiking experience) The LEAD evaluation should NOT have been weighed as the prime indicator of a corps person's spirituality and commitment level. C'mon, having a 60 year old Family Corps woman measured in the same manner of a 19 year old athletic man is absurd. Everything from back pain to blisters on her feet could easily affect her performance, her mood, her "positive" outlook, her willingness to help around the campfire, etc. To me, it's NOT whether someone had a good experience and another had a bad experience..... Looking back, I see the heavy-handedness of LEAD/corps leadership to manipulate and degrade some individuals when COMPARING corps against corps. And, we all know that making comparisons amongst one another is not wise. The LEAD experience can be viewed on so many levels because it was intricately interwoven into the fabric of the competitive corps program.