skyrider

And.....I keep thinking tha tthe reason wierwille had a "way tree" and "root system" was to keep counterfeit imagery control factors in place. After all, to highlight "members in particular" and "One Body with Christ as the head" sure has a way of taking wierwille out of the spotlight altogether.

the minister of jock, shock and ahhhhhhh.....

Of course...........twi has a mystique/image perception that seems to attract the long-standing innies. Buzzwords like The Way International, headquarters, root locale, tapped to the root..... are like "aroma flares" for those sniffing the winds of wierwillism. IMO, twi will clutch this hq property tightly like a golden goose laying golden eggs......UNTIL their goose is cooked. And, if in the end all else fails.............twi will become a wierwille bookstore for mail orders, supplies, and wierwille-idolizing momentos.

anotherDan.......I tend to think that a whole new thread entitled One of the Big Things I did NOT learn in pfal would initiate many posts like yours. While pfal gives many biblical research keys to the novice student.....it also side-steps MAJOR TRUTHS that are foundational to Christianity. As you noted, pfal springboards off the accomplishments of Jesus Christ....but then never keeps the perspective that Jesus Christ is the head of the One Body. Sure....."It's the Word, the Word and nothing but the Word".......but is THAT really God's intent? Or, is it a nice cliche that sets one up class after class after class to find the deep meaning of walking in God's power? And, wierwille's other subsequent cliches......"We have no friends when it comes to God's Word" & "The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word".......seemed to keep distancing twi believers from ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE body, ONE God and Father of all. Thanks for posting, anotherDan.

And, back then........45-75 interim corps were assigned to those high-service areas like way builders, grounds crew, shipping, housekeeping, etc. Along with this 55-hr/wk+ work assignment, interim corps were assigned a "household responsibility" [i.e. BRC set-up, dining room set-up] and other responsibilities like ushering or whatever. And, groups of in-residence corps would do a bulk of the mundane set-up as well. Back then...........twi paid interim corps $75 a month. Without these quantities of corps slave-labor, today's twi is a shell of its former self.

Maybe, Little Moneyhands should go back and dissect Cgeer's POP paper........a few pages of expounding how he (geeer) worked 20 hours a day to stand in the gap, hearing wierwille's last will and testament, full-scale public exposure and humiliation of twi's trustees....and ONLY CGEER had the answers and insight left to him by a dying wierwille. Planning and scheming his "mission statement" is of utmost importance for B. Moneyhands. Of course, if he scored on some illicit pictures of certain BOD in compromising situations......that would go a looooooong way to show others that, indeed, these BOD have "forsaken the Word." Probably wouldn't hurt to give L1nder and others a briefcase of Benjamins.......to sway some support and bodyguards, just in case. :)

WW.....absolutely. 21 years ago.......in 1986, cgeer delivered his "patriarch pontifications" to trustees & twi. 17 years ago.......in 1990, some of us were on a quest to fix twi after geer's poop paper. 7 years ago.........in 2000, after martindale was ousted the wagons were circled again. NOW...................in 2007, a coup needs to replace rosalie and help patch the holes. :blink:

Sounds like a disguised "loyalty" letter......confirming that one agreed with the trustees' decisions made and a new sheriff was in town. And yeah......if handled thru the twigs/branches, this is FAR from anonymous feedback.

socks......I can appreciate your "advice" given for discussion purposes here at GS, but the pyramid of plethoric plagerism and propaganda [ie....cultville] will NOT allow it. This MOGdom cannot change its spots, its underbelly, its wares......or its underwear. The stains remain.

Groucho..... Same thing with the holy spirit field.......wierwille got this info from Leonard in 1953. More "filler" information is included in the '67 pfal class......with 14 more years of studying others' work, but the meat of the pfal class, from Session 8 - 12 is holy spirit field. YET........wierwille exemplifies one who is NOT humbled, or motivated, or empowered by holy spirit. Even his demonstration of speaking in tongues.....after claiming that he himself spoke in tongues much in his private life displayed the repetitive baby-talk of an infant. If wierwille wasn't GENUINE.......what else did he counterfeit? Was he an enemy of the cross, as well?..........drawing others unto himself?

doojable.....I think it's called distraction. Anything to distract others from wierwille.....the thread title. <_<

How early did VP go bad? Well, in 1953........according to Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, VPW heard of Rev. B. G. Leonard's class and was a student in this February class. At 37 years old, wierwille had become frustrated and disappointed with his ministerial work UNTIL this turning point. This class thrilled wierwille and focused his direction on the holy spirit field. Some three months later, in June/July of 1953 wierwille and Mrs. and Don (along with two carloads of wierwille's congregants) attended the next Leonard class. VPW was a grad of the class and wanted to attend again. What else did he learn?.....class registration setup? procedures? class photo? follow-up? Heading home, vpw starts signing up family, relatives, friends, and neighbors for an October class......a class that HE teaches with no sylllabus, no handouts, no charts. The grads of Leonard's class are considered GRADS in this "wierwille class" and do not have to pay the registration fee. In that same year, 1953.........The Way, Inc. How early did VP go bad? I guess that depends on what someone deems "bad".......but he started his plagarism and deception in 1953. The "founder" and president of twi STOLE this work......and the fabrication of lies and deception followed him the rest of his life, unto death. <_<

MANY of those hq staffers are between the age bracket of 52 - 62 years old. So......I tend to think that job security is the bottom line "commitment" to twi. Some of those department coordinators and staffers have a nice little office and cushy job. No, it doesn't pay all that much........but there is a deep sense of satisfaction to work at the spiritual epicenter of the world. And sure, it would be nice to see Rosalie move into emeritus status (and not hear her squeaky, syrupy voice all the time)........BUT whoever sits on the throne, it better not be some snot-nosed kid who might start stirring the pot and yelling alot. Heck, maybe Donna has her eyes on the top chair...?? :blink:

Maybe at 39, B. Moneyhands is ready to jump into the fray and throw some punches. What the heck?.....sounds like things are slip-slidding away. Without a charismatic cult leader.......cult members slip away. I'll bet money that B. Moneyhands isn't the ONLY one thinking of manuevering to the top of the food chain. Seems like J. Rvpp has had his sights on that chair for about 15 years, as well. Probably some intense rivalry is brewing at twi..............again. What's that saying? If you are not the LEAD DOG, the view remains the same.

Out There.....it doesn't take a biblical class on keys to research to read II Timothy 3:10...But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience. Do you really think that some of us NEVER read what was written in the Bible? Like.....reading it IN THE VERSE or IN ITS CONTEXT is some huuuuge secret key..?? Some of pfal was good..........I already said as such in my first post.For me, the corps indoctrination was LOADED with wierwille as THE MOG of the planet. If HE wanted the mints split into three pieces, then it had better be done to his liking else it will affect the spiritual tremors on the other side of the world if wierwille is upset. Take vigorous notes when he speaks.....applaud him often.....cater to his every need.....write songs about him......quote him......listen to the wierwille family heritage (again) at the nightowl campfire. Sheeeesh, the corps indoctrination was a truckload of wierwille, not the Bible. Out There..........THAT'S EXACTLY the point of my first post. LOOK at the Scripture........II Timothy 3:10

Yeah......and, more like a night stick than a tool, beating one into compliance. "Spiritual anger" (fabricated from a twisting of scriptural references).....was a club that was kept hidden from public view. BUT.......behind closed doors this "night stick" was wielded for maximum restraint and control. Much like a predator's roar will freeze its prey.....so was "spiritual anger" in a teaching setting. Very effective, too.....rarily saw anyone stand up in a teaching/meeting, voice their objection and head for the door.

Suda....that's pretty much the way I view it, too. Someday, I'll have to dig out Mrs. Wierwille's book from my attic......but IIRC here is a brief timeline: 1) In 1941/42..........Wierwille and his denominational leaders are wanting to part their association. 2) In 1942...............VPW starts his "baby steps" as an independent pastor. 3) From 1941-53......VPW is unable to move forward and becomes depressed, ready to quit. 4) March 1953.........VPW heads to Calgary Alberta to attend Rev. BG Leonard's class 5) Jun/Jul 1953........VPW and Mrs. and Don (and two carloads of congregants) attend BG's class. 6) Oct 1953.............VPW runs his own class....no syllabus, no charts, no handouts 7) From 1941-53......This accounts for the 12 YEARS where vp claims he studied nothing but the Word. 8) From 1953-67......14 years -- vpw studies Bullinger, Stiles, Kenyon -- adding to "his work" 9) PFAL class filmed and ready for distribution.......Timing is EVERYTHING. 10) Jesus Movement and Music is sweeping the country......becoming more mainstream. 11) Doxp, Hefnxr and others.....vpw persuades and engrafts their ministries and work into twi. 12) Genuine, youthful ministries bring zeal and FIRE......vpw has struck "spiritual gold." 13) Summer Camps, ROA, WOW program......magnets drawing people to Ohio. 14) Songs of Jesus, love, peace......even the early twi songbooks were more worship and praise to God. 15) Corps program.....the first corps program failed (tagged "the zero corps") 16) More programs, more bureacracy.......more money flowing, more unaccountability 17) Motorcoaches, planes, campuses........increased image & mystique & power 18) MOG-Idolatry is hitting its zenith and wierwille basks in his long-awaited narcisstic status. 19) Darkness rules at hq.......abuses, abortions, rapes, cover-ups, silencers, sordid circles of compliance. 20) Wierwille dies of cancer....and wanted his epitaph to read, "I wish I were the man I know to be." I shall forever be thankful for Waydale and GS posters who've helped me to assemble this puzzling dichotomy of a man who so many rendered "The Man of God." And, although I've seen blessings and healings and deliverance during my twi tenure, because of the engrafting of other true ministers and their work.......I also know WHY twi spiraled down into the throes of hell. True freedom never smelled SO GOOD. :) PS.....Of course, only the first few are documented in Mrs. W's book.

To add further......... SEE......NOW -- with 20/20 hindsight that's the problem I have with pfal. It's NOT really a foundational class filled with keys for the more abundant life that Jesus Christ came to make available. It's an agenda-based presentation, a secular/marketing class that wierwille copied in the style and format of Rev. BG Leonard's class, sprinkled and frosted with enough truth to appear spiritually edible. Like "wanting the cake and eating it too"......Wierwille stole the recipe, added to the ingredients, baked it way too long, added frilly frosting to cover the burnt areas, and SOLD IT FOR PROFIT. <_<

I've got a question concerning TWISTING scripture...... Wierwille utilizes the Old Testament account in Malachi to promote and illustrate THE NEED TO TITHE....or else one is stealing from God and DISOBEYING God's standard. Other Old Testament scripture concerning Abraham is also highlighted. Question: Why didn't wierwille HEED and TEACH and PROMOTE the Old Testament account in Exodus 20:14......Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Yeah......Eagle, I remember that. Seems like twi was always really good at re-directing the attention SOMEWHERE ELSE. And, wasn't all this stuff in the context of that greek word "tarosso".....to be agitated with various emotions, a twisting, a perverting? Yep, that's how this whole context was addressed.

waterbuffalo, My answer of WHO bewitched me and drew me away from truth is.....victor paul wierwille. IMO, the corps indoctrination was wierwille's power-grab control over the soul and allegiance of God's elect. With cunning and isolation and deception, wierwille and his yes-men thundered for strict obedience to ever-changing rules, concepts, vocabulary, curriculum, and unwritten standards. To this day, I detest the bewitching.....drawing us away from obeying truth and herding us towards wholesale idolatry, namely....wierwille reverence. A three-hour corps night teaching was not uncommon......followed by another meeting from martindale or the corps coordinator. And, when wierwille came to the stage in his pajamas and bathrobe (and holding his coffee/drambuie cup)....he declared A PAJAMA PARTY and every corps had twenty minutes to be back at top floor Wierwille Library in their pajamas. No exceptions!!! Yikes!!!!........the more these memories surface, THE MORE I SEE WIERWILLE'S CULT.

Why did you stay in twi so long? ......or....... Nobody was holding a gun to your head, so why did you stay in the corps program?.....or......Why are you speaking negatives against wierwille, yet you were involved and didn't confront them at the time? Honest questions are always welcomed. Leading questions to TRAP....are met with opposition. Some deem pfal as "the foundation and standard to learn biblical principles"......Some deem pfal as a bait-n-switch scam "leading innocent people to a self-serving cult. The spectrum of viewpoints is vast. How many ways are there to describe the bait-n-switch tactics that twi utilized? 1) Setting the stage for "the law of believing".....and manipulating and cloaking the fear-indoctrination. 2) An authoritarian figure who sets himself up as "The Teacher." 3) Utilizing words and phrases with double meanings.....The Way Inc / I am the way 4) Add stories of signs and miracles to your teachings (resume)....even if NO ONE can confirm them. 5) Reach out to the young and naive.....putting separation from them and their support. 6) Add analogies and cliches......and stir them into the mix. 7) Highlight certain buzz words......creating a new set of vocabulary, wayspeak. 8) Bring the group to an emotional (spiritual?) high......a frenzied 12th session of pfal. 9) Demand strict adherence to the new rules.....for the next 3 months DON'T READ OUTSIDE stuff. 10) Provide an advanced series......hoop after hoop after hoop. 11) Fuel with competition and inner rivalry......keeping them from reflection and introspection. 12) Overwhelm (over-power) them with a steady flow of information and tapes. 13) Manipulate their youthful inadequacies with subtle doses of guilt and condemnation. 14) Incorporate an indoctrinational leadership program.....upping the ante of twi commitment. 15) Keep moving corps leadership every few years....keep them from comparing notes. 16) Utilize the corps labor force to slave towards the corporate empire. 17) Groom an inner circle of yes-men to "do your bidding." 18) Embrace an inner circle of yes-women to bring sexual favors to your door. 19) Keep your public / stage persona impeccable. 20) Allow others to praise your name often.....it adds to the mystique and mog-dom. And, keep stoking the fires with new, innovative cliches like......."The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word." So, back to the topic at hand, when I attempt to answer the questions of why did I stay so long? Why didn't I see the bait-n-switch? .....I try to remind myself of the Scriptures and WHAT THE REAL QUESTION IS.............WHO hath bewitched you? And, for me.............GreaseSpot has answered THAT QUESTION time and time and time again. Thanks. :)

Thanks Deciderator. Here on GreaseSpot......the only one I saw who REALLY BELIEVED that PFAL = God's Word was a poster named Mike. Seemingly, he spent thousands of hours working pfal and wierwille's tapes....digging for hidden meanings and coded messages to better align his spiritual walk with God. Haven't seen him in awhile here at GS....but he is on a mission to recruit others to this work. For me, I believe that the Scriptures are God's Word and Divine Guidance.....written by holy men who were moved by holy spirit within them. And yes, when the Scriptures are received and understood in the manner for which God intended.....then and there I have truth, a spiritual perspective of life and godliness. As a child and going to church, I had held a high respect for The Holy Bible. Many passages and psalms became my favorites, while other sections of the Bible remained a mystery, hidden from view. As I grew older, I shelved many of these questions.......believing that my Heavenly Father would instruct me at the time of His choosing and guidance. Fast forward to pfal: with deep respect for the Scriptures, I felt very awkward to even write notes on the borders of these pages. When simple verses were read in pfal......my heart could not contain its joy. When certain sections were expounded in their context.......my eyes of understanding were enlightened. As a teenager, I thought that I'd reached the summit of spiritual knowledge....and had keys to open doors. A deep, burning quest to walk like Jesus Christ keep me moving and teaching and ministering to others in the valley of human suffering and need. Small portions and morsels of truth are more than many others have who are hungering and thirsting. And, I thank the Lord for opening doors before me to give and minister to so many.... many of whom never took pfal but were uplifted and encouraged by the Scriptures. Deciderator......when you mentioned "God's Word with pfal as if they are Siamese twins or something" you noting what many here have stated as "bait and switch".....or in Galatians 3 "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you that ye should not obey the truth..." In many cases, fooling someone or bewitching someone happens OVER A PERIOD OF TIME. In my opinion, few people allow complete strangers to fool them, scam them, bewitch them. It's someone in whom we allow to get in close with us and in the process of living life........the deception takes place. In hindsight, TO ME (notice I'm not trying to infer this on others).....pfal was like that. I allowed the simple verses and the knowledge to sway me towards wierwille's ministry. I was young and naive and rebellious and wierwille, seemingly, had answers to my spiritual questions. I jumped on-board for a wild and fast ride. BUT AROUND 1995......I saw how pfal's absent-Christ doctrine ALSO shifted emphasis away from the Lordship of Jesus Christ in my life. So.....no, I would NOT call God's Word and pfal as "Siamese twins." In fact, this thread and other "pfal threads" illustrate the MAJOR DIVERGING PATHS that each one takes. Here's another cliche by wierwille..........."The Word is the ministry and the ministry is The Word."

Hello Deciderator, Sounds like you are calling my name......wanting to meet me at HIGH NOON with my six-shooter strapped and loaded and ready for the challenge. (*skyrider puts down his whiskey, spits on the floor and wipes his mouth with his sleeve........saying "Why I've shot more out-laws and no-gooders than you'll ever know.".....as he turns back to his whiskey) Reminiscent of the immortal words of victor paul wierwille......."Why I've forgot more Word than that feller will ever know."" -- referring to the theologian on the other side of the English Channel. Deciderator.....if you want to suspend and hold that cliche "It's the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word" -- I believe that one of the first things one has to do is qualify many factors. IMO, it cannot stand alone as a suscinct cliche......the ambiguity of it all is insurmountable. Starting with......"What is The Word" However one chooses to APPROACH the concept of "The Word" is the STARTING POINT of conflicting viewpoints. For example, you and I might agree that when God said, "Let there be light" as recorded in Genesis.... that is "The Word," the God-breathed Word. I agree. In pfal, as wierwille starts down this road of biblical research......he qualifies many things. First things first, and he hits on verses like holy men of God spake as they were moved by the holy spirit and no private interpretation. Of course, he notes to the students that there are NO ORIGINALS LEFT IN EXISTENCE. But moving on, he clarifies that if indeed it truly is God's wonderful matchless Word then it's got to fit "like a hand in a glove and work that way over and over again." Disclaimer: I know this is a very brief synopsis of wierwille's presentation of "The Word".......to fully bring this cliche into its proper context, one needs to SURROUND IT with the verses and build-up in pfal. Anyways............wierwille gets to the account of Jesus where he was 12 years old at his barmitzvah, rather than being 13 years old (the traditional standard). Wierwille goes on to say that he "found an old text that stated this, but doesn't have it anymore." I know this is a minor point......BUT IT BEGINS THE ARGUMENT THAT GROWS UGLY WITH HAIR IN LATER YEARS. Wierwille states that he cannot document his statement in pfal, and further insists that he KNOWS it's right! Why? Because Jesus was illegitimate....and many thought that he was a bastard child, (born out of wedlock, not the right gene pool -- God's, etc.) Even in pfal........wierwille is beginning to take "liberties" with "The Word." To be blunt ---- Wierwille is ALREADY DOING what he says not to do --no private interpretation. There are other references that he doesn't document. And, away he goes. You see, Deciderator..........wierwille adamantly states "It's the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word." A session or two later......wierwille IS adding and augmenting aspects of the Scriptures. He's twisting things and cramming things into a neat little package for marketing. I have to stop and remember that you took the pfal class in 1987 or thereabouts......right? So, you missed all the history of PFAL '77. One of the reasons that PFAL '77 was such a big deal was because the research team (Walter and some others) were wanting wierwille to RE-TEACH PFAL AND GET RID OF SOME ERRORS THAT WERE PRESENT IN THE PFAL CLASS. Needless to say, when the new class was "in the can" ....wierwille just wasn't up for the challenge and did not improve on the '67 class. Fast forward...........wierwille's corps program was loaded with WIERWILLE'S WAY, and wierwille's "literal translations according to usage." In other words, much leniency was given to the MOG and he added lots of private interpretation to things. Why do you think that wierwille's "research team" abandoned him?????? Why do you think that very few books came out without wierwille's name on them????? Heck......even after wierwille's death, the trustees SHUT DOWN shoenheittt's (sp) adultery paper and cast him out of the way ministry. An adultery paper?????? Unbelievable! This square-one stuff should have been covered in wierwille's pfal class or the Christian Family and Sex class......but nope. Lots of history......lots of watering-down the Scriptures. Anyways, back to the topic at hand.....I believe Suda posts a few things that confirm much of what I'm saying regarding this subject. Deciderator........sorry, I can't meet you at HIGH NOON today. I've got a full day planned and I'm already behind schedule. Hope my explanation helps you abit. Have a good weekend.

How about this? Is dwelling on the past comparable to dwelling on vp's class? Bring up cliches over and over again...........What has God shown you TODAY? Talking about what vp said here, or taught there........Any new learning TODAY? When I sat in the class in 1972, blah, blah, blah.........Is The New Dynamic Church STAGNANT..? Oh, yeah......."the good ole days".....................Or, can one dwell on PAST pleasantries??