skyrider

I don't know, Hamm..............seems that anyone who wanted to pay their respects, respectfully LEFT. :)

Yeah......and the life I now live is full-scale FREEDOM seven days a week. But.........the twi cult obstructs and abuses those who would/could "live and let live." Even on weekends.................others LURK here.

Yeah.......SCREAMING from the Way Woods treetops..!!! 18 years of martindale being wierwille's "annointed choice" as next prez................DEAD silence. 11 years after "signing on" with martindale's loyalty letter.....................................DEAD silence. Years and years of supporting twi with hard-earned abs, and then.........................DEAD silence. Asking questions at the local level, and intimidated NOT to ask these questions......???????? Wondering why Donna Lombardi Martindale didn't follow her husband out the door..??????? And, if they hide the MAJOR stuff, how can they be trusted anymore......................???????

In September of 2000, Martindale was ousted as twi's 2nd president and stripped of his corps and clergy status. With a pending lawsuit approaching and other potential lawsuits, twi's lawyers advised the trustees to cut ties with martindale and send him packing. Oh......decisions, decisions, decisions. What now? How best to implement DAMAGE CONTROL? Where does martindale go from here? Are there other angry husbands who will slap another lawsuit on him.....or want to hunt him down? What public release will be issued when the local newspapers start phoning? All this AFTER....martindale's admission in April of 2000 of a "one-time affair" and the fallout from that. Plus, three or four Region Coordinator couples exited during the summer months and the whole landscape of twi was changing like shifting sand in a sandstorm. Hiding behind silence and intimidation, twi had to manuever their way thru this sh1tstorm that wierwille started as the prototype decades earlier. And now, martindale needed to run from a "double-barrel shotgun" hunting husband who was out for blood. And, with martindale's history of erratic mental instability under such pressure, Toledo was selected as the destination because of its close approximity to hq and his daughter at Bowling Green.....plus twi had an in-house doctor, Dr. Z0n@, living there. IMO, this silence only served to SHROUD the dead corpse within........twi. All of those last-gasp efforts in the 90s were, NOW, over. As an organization, twi was done THEN and THERE. Seven years of silence.....seven years of "softening the screamfests"........seven years of superficial spirituality ONLY CONFIRMS THIS. No repentence. No accounting. No godly sorrow. Over and out. blip........^.........blip.........^..........tsssssssss.....

When I ponder this comraderie and intense involvement with twi..........I, many times, STEP BACK and remind myself that youth and zeal run hand in hand. Having NO wife, NO kids, NO career, NO real life responsibilities.....twi involvement begets MORE twi involvement, and I was ripe for the pickings. Once I swallowed twi's credibility as a "research, teaching and fellowship ministry".....my youthful enthusiasm embellished the spontenaity of it all. Today, I endeavor to live MORE responsibly. To me, Christianity is not belonging to a certain group, organization, church or movement. I still think that I see thru a glass darkly......and with that, I thank God for looking on my heart and guiding my steps everyday. :)

Agreed. But if every Christian is an able minister with a distinct ministry.......it negates the caste system that twi so elaborately built for decades. :blink:

Dan......while twi highlighted the five gift ministries [Eph. 4:11] in teachings and publications and the newly-revamped corps logo in 1978/79 (?)......I was around wierwille on several occasions where he elaborated on ministries that were beyond that scope. And, within a few of these teachings / sharings.....wierwille spoke openly that a few 3rd corps clergy and 4th corps clergy fit into the categories of helps & organization. The Scripture reference of these other ministries: I Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that, miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.... After wierwille's death, I cannot recall martindale ever addressing this issue. Discussing twi and its evolvement is very much like trying to focus on a moving target. :)

Socks....good points! Wierwille muddied the waters from the get-go in pfal.....setting up this "abundance" premise that unbelievers, many times, have and believers do not. Pfal was flawed on so MANY levels.

Absolutely, Excie.......you're very much IN. And, don't worry about bringing your "nametag" to lunch at The Cafe.......it's not needed.

On this Labor Day......I want to thank each and everyone of you who labored [past tense] and labor [now] IN love and offer a helping hand by coming to GS. When I set aside twi's corporate machinery FOCUSING SOLELY on the heart and labor of so many during my past and post-twi days.......reflection on the giving, the laughs, the craziness, and the tender times gives me pause for a heart of thankfulness. So, on this "day of rest"........thank you one and all for your blood, sweat, and tears to join THE FORCE OF GOOD to uplift mankind. How many hearts did you open to the Scriptures? How many eyes that were blind can now see the Lord Jesus and his accomplishments? How many burdens did you carry through the years with a deep passion to help others? The answer to these questions......I don't know, but God Almighty does. Thank you WOWs......for going forth into the unknown, leaving behind family and friends and college and jobs. May the Lord God always look on your heart. Thank you Adv. Class grads......for wanting to learn more to serve better. Our God is an awesome God who reigns in heaven above to strengthen your every step. Thank you Corps......for your resolve to face adversity and hardship, expecting this training to facilitate your walk in Christ. May God continue to open doors before you and honor your commitment and calling to serve others. It is my intent that this thread stay "on the HIGH ROAD" of Labor Day Eternal......and not detour towards the dirt roads of destruction. Clearly, my abundant postings have stated my views regarding "the side-roads, back-alleys and spin-outs" that kept many of us from that high road eternal. Today is set aside to rest from that labor.....and I intend to enjoy it. And, when "resting"........my heart swells with thanksgiving for SO MANY HERE who post thought-provoking logic, sound doctrine, silly jokes, helpful links, and comforting words. Hopefully, Paw is resting and enjoying his day as well. Today, I choose NOT to squabble over any issue at GS. Today, I just want to say THANK YOU. :)

Your posts have a pattern of questions after questions. IMO, at times, you phrase the question in such a way as to denigrate the poster.....NOT to really add to the discussion. If you didn't notice, I was "messing" with you......to show you how easy it is to DOMINATE a conversation by asking question after question and getting the poster "back on his heels." It's one effective way to CONTROL THE FLOW of the conversation by using well-placed questions. Heck, twi taught us corps this stuff in one of the christian communication classes. But hey, Larry.....if you want to stay in the "question mode" aspect in these discussions, go for it. Sometimes rhetorical questions, like Jesus used, are a very good quality to allow the person to think and reflect......and honest, open questions are welcomed in most any discussion. Have a good weekend. :)

Really nice. I'm impressed. Thanks for sharing this. :)

Yeah......even during a 10-minute break, the grad was told to "watch over" your fruit. Just wasn't enough to let them air their brain cells and all.......had to keep pumping in twi's doctrine. No space was given to allow questions to fester. <_<

Larry.....a few posts ago, YOU were the one with questions. You're welcome. I'm always glad to help.

Why not?

Is it a true by-product.......or just run-off excess?

Questions, so many questions..... Perhaps, you can sit in the pfal class again, somewhere. Then, at the end of the class......if you STILL have questions, the class coordinator will answer them for you....or strongly suggest that you hold them in abeyance and sit thru the next pfal class. Everyone should be up-to-speed after sitting thru pfal four or five times, right? :blink:

Just to help you out, Larry..........parallel with twi's terminology and universe, it runs along the same lines as a "committed" believer. Glad to help. :)

"Present yourself to God"..........is a much better fit in one's WHOLE life and conduct. In this context, it flows with Paul's exhortations to Timothy that follow in chapter 3. II Tim. 3:10,11a But thou [Timothy] hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me.... Obviously, the "presenting" is in the ACTION of living God's calling and truth. :)

Yes, Oldies......I have often said that pfal had much (....60-70%...??) truth in it. Some of the things that I strongly disagree with: 1) Wierwille's proclamation that "God told me He'd teach me....blah, blah, blah" 2) Wierwille's hi-jacking of Rev. Leonard's class and plagairizing it's content, format, etc. 3) Wierwille's "law of believing" ......one of the premises of his class, blue book. 4) Wierwille's "absent-Christ" doctrine and the doctrinal/practical irreverance of Christ as head of One Body. 5) Wierwille's liberties taken on his private interpretation of certain scriptures. 6) Wierwille's narcisstic-agenda of always wanting to be in the spotlight. 7) Wierwille's manipulation and belittling of others' individuality/ other churches. 8) Wierwille's structuring twi like a pyramid......no accountability. 9) Wierwille's corps indoctrinational process.....it's yes-men mentality and clone-like focus. 10) Wierwille's spiritual and moral compass......was it ever "on-target" at all. But, hey.......notwithstanding those "biggies" I still believe that the simplicity of Christ reached me IN SPITE OF the dark agendas from hq.

...the actual fellowship ministry Too funny, Oldies. I would be more inclined to say Wierwille had a TEACHING ministry.....teaching truths and other mens' work. As far as "the actual fellowship ministry".......I would render that credit back to God's holy spirit within, or practicing one's Christian faith.

I, too........think it was possible to have learned elsewhere. Twi was an offshoot of Rev. Leonard's ministry and work. Later, wierwille grafted in some Stiles and Bullinger appendixes information to lengthen Leonard's class work.....but, in essense, it IS possible to learn from an offshoot. Twi is NOT the originator....but an offshoot.

Three brothers......two of them worked on staff and had the first initial B. And yes, the other brother....the physician....lived a couple hours or so away from hq.

Welcome agape99. Others who've left twi's doors in the past few years describe twi's sunday services as an exercise in boring script-reading sermons. And, knowing behind the scenes that rosalie and company preview and pre-approve these "teachings" for public consumption is very telling. Sounds like a boxed-doctrine approach, eh? Churches EVERYWHERE have a better approach than this. Oh, and you mentioned B.G. Leonard.........if you still have Mrs. Wierwille's book Born Again to Serve, you might want to review the timeline. In brief, it says: ....1) In February 1953, vpw went to Calgary, Alberta to take Rev. Leonard's class. ....2) In June/July 1953 vpw, mrs, don and others go and take Rev. Leonard's class. ....3) In Oct. 1953, vpw teaches his "Receiving the holy spirit" class -- no syllabus, no handouts. A few years later, this class was renamed pfal. And, it's good to hear that lurkers are READING THIS FORUM.....that's why lots of us continue to post. I began my extensive questioning 12 years ago and left when I had more good reasons for leaving than staying with this deceitful organization.

The REAL POINT is............twi's pyramid structure gives the "top movers and shakers" a system of adulation/praise far beyond corporate reality, a decent paycheck (with hidden bonuses?) with some perks in rural Ohio and emeritus status late in life. That's why the focus HAS to stay on headquarters.....as they "sell the benefits of staying tapped to the root" week after week. What was pawned off as "The life of the ministry is in the twig"........shifted to "The life and adoration of the ministry is at The Root." And, of course.......those heavily invested staffers at hq are all smiles at major events knowing that their job security depends on it. With $48 Million in assets/investments.....and squeezing every drop of blood outta every abs penny, it should be enough to keep things going for many years still. Besides, how many other UNKNOWN houses does twi own that are hidden in the books......houses that could be sold?