skyrider

It is ironic...................when one turns west off I-29 onto Wierwille Rd and travels about one mile to twi, the FIRST glimpse of twi one sees is A CEMETERY......yeah, housing dead mens' bones. Oh, they call it "The Garden of Living Waters"...........BUT therein lies vic, harry & ermal. Of course, vpw got "top honors" and his gravesite is at the elevated point of the fountain.......yep, even in death, he made sure that his "elevated" spot was reserved for him. <_<

Un-freakin-believable..!! Cgeer slithers into a limb coordinator position in June of '72. Man, it sounds like two narcisstic personalities conspired together early on......collaborating in evil undertakings and lecherous dealings. And, again......the pieces of this puzzle keep on a'coming. Why am I NOT surprised???

On the first Sunday of October each year, twi celebrates its anniversary........re-hashing and re-writing the wierwille legacy at this *65th* (cough, cough) anniversary for their followers. Again, the indoctrinational process will include claims like "we've been taught the word like it hasn't been known since the first century" and "thanks be to THIS ministry that has taught us the word" to hammer in these flat-out lies once more. The Spin --- is the wierwille spin. First, foremost and always.......wierwille is the center of the celebration. If one were to count the number of times "wierwille" or "his ministry" or "pfal" is revered, it would strongarm any effort towards God's name and His Christ. The Grin --- is the we-will-keep-this-facade-going-for-as-long-as-possible grin. Sure, the staff have smile and greet and usher........but then, its an extension of their job description of working at hq. BUT...........the low ebb of twi followers show that there so NO HAPPY ABOUT IT. And, if Jesus Christ were to attend, he would go to the Green Room and speak with twi's leaders and......his words would be woe unto you. Matt. 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Matt. 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Matt. 23:16 Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say Whosover shall swear by the temple, it is nothing: but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matt. 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Matt. 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness. Matt. 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous.

Not sure about *naive*.............BUT, there sure was alot of corps coordinators pushing wierwille/mog worship as a staple to the corps indoctrination. And, thus.......as corps went forth, we spewed forth THAT WHICH WE HAD SEEN AND HEARD. Yeeeuuuuuuukkkk.

I, too, know of ONE SEXUALLY ABUSIVE SITUATION that Dott1e kept under raps. She knew that Craiggers was a sexual predator by the early 90s. Yeah......Dott1e knows how to climb twi's corporate ladder by "assisting the prez" and keeping her mouth shut. Sure, she could have pulled the lid off this stuff and stopped lots of destruction and aftermath........but then, she and Boob wouldn't be the "esteemed leaders" that they are today.

WW.......yeah, that's for sure. FOR 16 YEARS..........(1941-1957) wierwille stayed put in the church system collecting his paychecks. Sure he spinned it to his advantage, claiming that all this time he was "working the word" trying to tap the resources for abundant living. And finally, ten more years transpire before vpw has a pfal class ready to market in the late 60s. But this is STILL not enough for the small-time, 51 year old ohio preacher. He sets his sights on engrafting hefner's and doop's leadership and work to further jump-start the pfal cookie-cutter-campaign. It's no wonder that in pfal.....VPW HIGHLIGHTS THOSE WHO ARE SPIRITUAL HITCH-HIKERS. He knew it well. :blink:

Mike.........hoping this little tidbit of info helps you to put to rest your pfal worship doctrine. Thanks PB.......for this topic. They can't silence us any longer. At least, here at GS.........we all have a voice, eh?

Well..........the "old-timers" found out that twi's math didn't add up. The "old-timers" learned that twi's history was constantly being re-written. The "old-timers" did the litmus test on pfal and common sense won out. The "old-timers" simply found NEW LIFE after twi.....and faded into the fabric of living. And............so many of the "old-timers" were pillars of strength and comfort. :)

Yeah, Don'tWorry.......veepee was deceptively re-writing twi's history from the get-go. Quite the stretch, reaching back to the little vesper chime experiment to claim twi's beginning. Like so many other things, it's another eye-opener to the big-claim-wierwille-ministry that was "reaching out around the world." Yeah, right. To think that wierwille was still pastoring in a Van Wert church until 1957......yet, claiming that his ministry (the likes of a modern-day apostle Paul, as some proclaim) began in October 1942 by the earth-shaking revelation of a few singers at church. But, hey............go ahead, twi and have your "65th" anniversary celebration. Recount your historical roots back to the Payne church teenage singers and build the wierwille pyramid, again, for all your followers. IMO, you might be surprised at how many of your "faithful" don't buy into it.......but rather, just don't care to venture into unknown territory and see all the glaring lies. Deceptive from the start..............and why I'm not surprised.

When wierwille accounted for twi's inception and independent work......after leaving the Van Wert church in 1957, he laid claim to the October 1942 formation of Vesper Chimes [the three girls who sang with Mrs. Wierwille at their side, a pianist and a Payne Church assistant]. Rev. Charles Fuller's radio program, The Old-Fashioned Revival Hour, was the prototype and inspiration of using radio and music that caught wierwille's attention to use radio as a medium to reach out to others. From Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve (p. 42) --- "By September of 1943 we had acquired the technology to broadcast directly from the church. This broadcast, transmitted over Lima's station WLOK, was called "Vesper Chimes." Shortly thereafter we renamed it "The Chimes Hour Youth Caravan" since the broadcast time had been changed from Saturday evenings to twelve noon on Sundays. The prgram was financially supported by interested listeners." Note two things: 1) broadcast directly from the Payne church and 2) financially supported by interested listeners (who supported the church with their giving). So, can twi really trace its history back to 1942.....because a few teenagers were singing in a church and it was broadcasted to the local area, supported by interested listeners? Does that really constitute the opening of wierwille's ministry.....or hitch-hiking off another's work and contributions to a community? And, further..........what about October 1953 as the start of wierwille's ministry work? Notably, he was teaching an "independent" class.........albeit, Rev. BG Leonard's class, "The Gifts of the Spirit." Once again, wierwille was hitch-hiking off another man's work and ministry. AND.....MORE THAN LIKELY, wierwille did not want to tag twi's inception with 1953, drawing too much attention to this year.........with wierwille in Leonard's shadow. If tagged to this 1953 "start".............then, twi is about to celebrate their 54th anniversary. And, still further.......wierwille didn't leave the Van Wert Church until 1957. So, while he's still the pastor at St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church, he shouldn't be MOONLIGHTING working somewhere else??? Until he parted ways with this church, any pre-dating of his independent ministry (twi) is incredulously dishonest, isn't it?? But, if earmarked as a 1957 "start"........then, twi is about to celebrate their 50th anniversary. My, oh my.......how complicated things can be when deception is at the foundation. :blink:

Perhaps, its as simple as Wierwille viewing that anyone who didn't accept Jesus Christ remained in their sins..... and therefore, the "sinner" is non-Christian.

Awwww.........flowers and rainbows and puppy-dog tails. Yet, do those corps teachings still drip with venom week after week?......lashing out at any staff corps woman who gets pregnant without twi's approval?......or, imposing a "mark & avoid" status whenever a leader buys a home?........or, what if a long-standing corps leader sends a letter addressed to twi's president raising opposition to its prevailing promised land bunk? What about health and healing?.......does twi still heap truckloads of guilt and condemnation on its staff employees when health issues arise?.....or death occurs? Where was that high road of love when reynxolds was removed from the trustee level for health issues a few years back? Why are so many sent packing from staff when their health starts to fail?.....Are they driven from the beloved hq via brow-beating and guilt? Seems that your sterilized internet presence misses the mark, doesn't it twi?.....Region coordinators still leaving your household; and limb coordinator clergy requesting branch work to get secular employment.......just doesn't make any sense in your "prevailing ministry" and window-dressing articles.....???? And, why do you, twi, still hide behind this "come and see" hq.......where you hold the advantage of control and manipulation at your fingertips? Long gone are the days of GO, STAND and SPEAK to the people all the words of this life -- that spirit-filled life of demonstrating God's power in action!!! You know, the Book of Acts action.....the Church Epistle ministering wherein the leaders get out amongst the people and WALK THE WALK. And, really.....where is all that abundant sharing going? Does the bureacratic salaries at twi swallow up the majority of this hard-earned money week after week? C'mon let's be real.......twi's hq is bloated to the max to "create" an image of international importance, right? In actuality, probably a third of twi's staff could be trimmed from the ranks and sent out on the field....'cept that then, some perks at hq would be lost like the extra personnel fawning over the uppities....like the valets, special assistants, bodyguards, confidants. You know. Okay, I'm rambling.......but geez louise, now being far removed from this twi-light zone, it's just bizarre to still see some catering to twi's regurgitating rhetoric. For those of us who KNOW WHAT LURKS BEHIND THE CURTAINS, this fronting of pious platitudes is nothing more than plastic smiles and cheap veneer.

THAT'S why I like coming to Greasespot. Thanks!

Well said, rascal. I don't feel compelled to forgive them either......nor do I see it as affecting me one way or another. Each and every day that twi wallows in its own stench of wickedness, bondage, legalism, arrogance, etc.......only confirms my rightful actions of leaving that cesspool. Sure, I think that, at times, I should have left by 1980.....but then, that would have totally changed the dynamics of my life and the family I have today. My main reason for coming to GS is to warn others.....and share of my experiences. And, as former corps and clergy, it is distasteful to see that my years of faithfulness to live "God's Word" were, in fact, facilitating twi's leveraging of legalism and sowing of wickedness and covetousness. Therefore, I am committed to STAND ON THE TOWERS OF GS and warn others of the devices of twi and its offshoots. I believe that each one of us adds a unique piece of the puzzle that, in turn, helps others. And, to me...........the puzzle is nearing completion, except for a few missing pieces around wierwille's eyes and hands.

DontWorryBeHappy.......I agree with your assessment on forgiveness and that when "they" fess up and admit their doings and apologize, then "I" will forgive them. But as you pointed out, Martindale seems to believe that *he did nothing wrong*.... :blink: ....and therefore, is stopping short of God's reconciliation and restoration......and man's re-establishment of fellowship. Although twi's trustees....i.e. major players....continues to plod along in their tight-lipped mode, the disgusting abuse has long been falling "out of their closets." And, some of twi's offshoots dish out nose-spider personal prophesies to keep the playing field slanted in their favor.......amazing, how many different ways there are to lord over God's heritage and take unfair advantage over the flock. But, for Rosie, Donna and the twi gang.....is this *silent treatment* a true refuge? Hardly. The inevitable justice of God's divine power will come into play at His choosing. For their spiritual wholeness.......THEY NEED TO BARE THEIR WICKEDNESS BEFORE THE FATHER. And, for their betterment........THEY OWE US ALL AN APOLOGY. Whether they choose to own up to the truth of God's Word, that's the ball in their court. The Scriptures are SO clear on their erring, their forsaking the One True God. Perhaps, we are witnessing the spiritual truth of those whose conscience is seared. Are they so engulfed in reprobate doings that they cannot find their way out of the snares?

WOW........all this discussion about Larry, how he's treated, groupthink, etc. As I move from table conversation to table conversation here at the Cafe.......there are tables where I enjoy the discussions, the food, the laughs, and just hanging for awhile. I like it here.....but I also know, that there are certain situations or antagonistic discussions that really just go nowhere. And, yes......I've conversed with Larry on a few occasions, but found the sarcastic attitude abit too toxic to my liking. Sure, maybe he's trying to "find himself" or whatever........I have no problem giving him some space. Gee, I think that term groupthink is totally misplaced in this situation. To me, Greasespot is dynamics in action......with each of us, thinking and expressing and growing at our own pace. Heck, there are no statements of belief to adhere to .....no meetings to attend......no threats of taking your nametag.......no mog expecting sexual favors in the motorcoach........no way rag regurgitating articles. I enjoy healthy, thought-provoking discusssions.....like those from Dot, Rascal, T-Bone, Tonto, Sunesis, Socks, DMiller, etc. etc. etc. I do NOT like the badgering of questions that belittle and demean our experiences in twi. Have a good weekend......everyone. skyrider

Mr. Wierwille wished for something on his deathbed..... He said....."I wish I were the man I know to be." And, if HE can use it, so can I...........I wish that I'd never signed the green card.

Yeah.....HOW MANY YEARS did lcm get free-rent housing..??? And......Donna Lombardi Martindale stays at twi with pity-money support. And......little teenage girl probably gets pampered as she soon prepares for college. And......Craig gets free counseling & services from twi's in-house doctor, Dr. Z0n@. So, now he works at a HOME DEPOT or Home Improvement Store??? He better stay off those ladders.....because when Stevx Tvlley, an employee for this franchise, fell and died.....martindale ripped into his life and pointed fingers at him working in this "dark environment" (or something like that).

Belle.......yes, to some degree, it HAS silenced the twi-following. But then, again......the Craig/Donna issue has sent out ANOTHER red flag. Twi has double standards. There is favortism and partiality within their ranks. Don't mess with the upper hierarchy of twi. Sure, there is SILENCE a-happening. But.......there is also *silent* numbers of in-residence corps NOT present, *silent* numbers of people showing up at branch meetings, *silent* numbers are fading away into the fabric of life and escaping the *silent treatment* of twi. No longer is twi dealing with teenagers or 20-somethings. Heck, what's the AVERAGE AGE of twi nowadays??? 47 ??? Or higher??? Now, the staffers who collect the paycheck......they learned long ago to turn and look the other way. They keep silent.......TO KEEP THEIR JOB. But the field folk, that's a whole 'nother story. It's no wonder why twi continues to hemorrage at a slow pace. Imagine...............10 years from now..!!!!!!! :blink:

As I remember it.......the wierwille homestead was 147 acres. That is LESS than 1/4 section of land.....or 160 acres. When someone farms 1 mile by 1 mile, that is equivalent of 640 acres or a section of land. I personally know a couple of farmers out west (farming operations) where the farmer owns OVER 50 sections of land ( 50 X 640 acres). Yeah.....the wierwille farm was in the 1920s/30s..........but I wouldn't call that affluent. I mean, yeah.....the wierwilles might have been one of the bigger farmers in the New Knoxville area, when one looks across fence after fence at the neighbors. But clearly, that doesn't come anywhere near the vicinity of wealthy. Just seems like everything out of wierwille's mouth has to be taken with a grain of salt, or dirt. <_< And, yeah......bragging and exaggerating seems to have run deep in the wierwille gene pool.

Because................................she had access to the *queen.* Once king okie was booted, she wasn't about to follow that man anywhere. She knew where her bread was buttered..........and liked the "royal courts" where servants pampered her every move. Besides.......... she knew that twi had DOUBLE STANDARDS, she'd been around vpw alot before she hooked up with craig. With Rosalie in power, Donna knew that Rosalie would silence the critics. And, that's ANOTHER shrouded issue amongst this fiasco. <_<

4-D's...... 1) Decision 2) Desire 3) Details 4) Deliverance Just to help you out there, YID.

Definitely, by '83..............could have been around in '82. I was on hq staff at this time and knew of several who had gotten home mortgage loans thru The Way Credit Union. Yes, there was a time when twi encouraged staff homeownership. I suppose it didn't take long before it dawned on the corps director that this would really be a spoiler to corps assignment changes -- every 3 to 5 years.

Yeah, WG.......the other trustees SHOULD have kicked his arse for an off-wall statement like that. Heck, if Don and Howard would have had any b@lls and integrity......they would have demanded for martindale to apologize to the corps. Just shows that mog-mentality ruled/rules at twi. Wonder if martindale has found anyone in Toledo to carry his jock strap???? :blink:

Yeah, the rants were unforgettable......one time, in his most-condescending manner he stated that "you corps are NOT WORTHY to carry my jockstrap." My, oh my...........how the "mighty" have fallen..!! <_<