skyrider

WOW.......a suscinct capsulization of wierwille and his manipulative methods! And.........why martindale was hell-bent on this *make-you, break-you* mentality. What a perversion of true leadership.........no wonder I find the corps indoctrination program so disgustingly disturbing.

......secret this, secret that. My wife told me about the tfi experience.......the all-night scare tactics, the cardboard box "prisons", the pounding and explosive intimidations, the blaring music, the russian overthrow scenario and the ring leaders trying to hype this whole manipulated set-up. In hindsight, the corps program seems so juvenile......... Gee.......I wonder if *the school of Tyrannus* as run like that..???

Only a demented doctrine from a cult does that.

PB......yeah, underneath the surface of the spiritual veneer was this *break you* doctrine. So, we sit thru countless hours of teachings and scripture.......countless hours of "exhort & comfort" manifestations.......countless hours of sharings.......and twi corps leaders want to *break and humiliate* us??? DOES A LOVING FATHER TRY TO *BREAK* HIS KIDS...?? Nope. The corps indoctrination was like living in an abusive household. Never quite knew what the next day would bring.....never quite knew the "mood" of the guy with the microphone. Always trying to keep you off-balance......keep you off your spiritual equilibrium. And, that was the day-to-day schedule. Imagine when it was jacked-up to the LEAD scenario..?? The corps program.........Victor Wierwille-stein's "creation."

The Face Meltings Thread documents a considerable amount of confrontations in twi......BUT the twisted and demented psychological mind games that were in play during one's corps indoctrination were, by far, aimed at dismantling one's true self and individuality and implanting a twi-dependent indentity. DontWorryBeHappy posted: By 1975, wierwille was amping up the confrontations......the face-melting sessions......the public criticizings......the heavy-handed interrogation techniques......the intimidation........the humiliation........etc. etc. etc......in the corps indoctrination program. Seems that once wierwille had a few years of corps program leverage under his belt, his true colors started flying with the 4th, 5th, and 6th corps. WTF???...........sworn to silence to not REVEAL to others what happened at tfi? Trying to "break down" individuals with these experimental techniques? Public humiliation and strong-arming the group with major peer pressure is built into the mix? Oh, that's right......I forgot. Wierwille's german background and his desire to build a spiritual crack troop that was greater than military training.....or whatever. The corps indoctrination program was laced with a host of mixed variables.........a CONFUSING mind-fyck wherein oz-wierwille came out from behind his curtains to play general and mr. know-it-all. Didn't really matter if you did "it right or best".......the experiment was to BREAK YOU and mold you into a corps slave. Sure didn't read this in the corps brochure.......nope. Guess it was one of those sworn-to-silence codes. Lightbearers was another experiment.........pushed by fear and humiliation. LEAD was another.......and long threads on GS have exposed the arrogant leaders involved with it AND the tragedies that resulted. Wierwille's little "baby" experiment......the corps program....gives HUGE INSIGHT into the mind of wierwille. After 30 years of "researching" God's Word.....(1942-1975)......he still wants to do edggy experiments on the hearts and lives of the youth???? He want control....absolute control....of their allegiance. The corps training was wierwille's final attempt.......a sell-out to the wierwille cult. You want in? Sign on the corps line. Welcome.........and never look back.

Martindale.......supposedly *the only one who survived that POW training experience.* I think this man was full of himself. In fact, it was this POW training experience where martindale and my future wife-to-be hitch-hiked together......UNTIL martindale abandoned her at a truck stop near Oklahoma City. She found a ride for them just about the same time that he found a ride. So, in his great wisdom, he said......"You take your ride and I'll take mine and I'll see you in Californina." And, martindale later went on to be the Corps Director...............

Nicole, Thanks for your post........and yeah, your parents were among the "good guys." When I post on GS, I always endeavor to direct my comments towards twi's board of directors, twi's pyramid structure, victor paul wierwille, craig martindale, rosalie & donna, twi's legalism, or systematizing of error. IMO, twi has been downward spiraling since 1978 (when I first became aware of its demise -- :blink: ) ......even though the rank and file have worked endless hours to "better" twi and their "promised land." Sure, there are lots of good people in twi......that's why I stayed so long. Sure, there are lots of folks at hq who work those corporate hours and usher at the Sunday Teaching fellowships.......just like there are lots of good people in the corporate world. Sure, there are many on the field who teach their fellowships and work to run classes......many here at GS would attest to that. After 24 years in twi, I could NO longer stay the course........the legalism was encroaching every corner of my life. Why couldn't the trustees SEE this?.......why couldn't the trustees FOLLOW GOD'S WORD into the grace?......why couldn't "our leadership" right the ship? These questions and many, many more continued to perplex me. In my innermost thoughts, I'd question twi's trustees' motives, intents, integrity, etc. You see.....it wasn't enough to just be a "good guy"......one had to be vigilant and listen to God's voice. It was time for me to exit. Looking back, I see how wierwille built his "ministry" from plagerism and like a MLM pyramid. It was structured wrong from the get-go......and doomed to fail. Sure, lots of good folks flocked to it in the early 70s.....in our youth, it was the comaraderie, the spontaneity, the laughs, the give-your-life-to-God thing, etc. BUT.......after another 20 years and with growing teenagers, IT WAS SPIRITUAL ENTRAPMENT. The "good guys" made twi special......but, the "good guys" also facilitated THE EVIL AT THE TOP. Some of us witnessed and brought scores of new people to twi........only to find out that, later, many of these people were overcome by hurt, pain, and destruction. No more, thank you. Nicole.....your Dad was awesome. He really was. Take care. skyrider

No doubt, in his wildest imaginations.....could wierwille have ever thought that his kids would bail out of twi and Don would die so prematurely.....AND that mrs. w would be so neglected and treated so poorly as she neared the end of her life. But hey..........in wierwille's pyramid structure, the one at the top gets all the perks and accolades and everyone else follows the marching orders. Sad....for sure.

Did wierwille build anything of substance? Through the decades, it seems like wierwille scratched and clawed his way forward by manipulation, intimidation and coercion............hardly a movement of God. * Stole BG Leonard's class in 1953 to jump-start his lack-luster work. * Stayed on the payroll at the Van Wert church until 1957.......not quite the George Mueller, eh? * Convinced his brother Harry to bankroll the renovations of the old farmhouse and a new office. * Talked his brother Rueben and sisters, Lydia & Sevilla, to sell off their portion of farm/property. * On weekend labor, some carpenters and followers built the Ecumenical Center, the BRC. * The trailer park era......single-wides and later, double. Whoa! :) * Emporia Campus......Rome City Campus..........using free labor, corps labor. * OSC......a shell.....a warehouse area......and later, offices and cafeteria/dining room. * Finally, two months before wierwille's death.......the auditorium is finished. No matter how one tries to re-write twi history, it sure looks like "scratching and clawing one's way to success" rather than a genuine movement of God. Maybe, it's the manner of corraling the control into his corner......maybe it's the lack of forethought and the trailer park at hq........maybe, it's the auditorium that is SO NON-FUNCTIONAL and not suited for any versatility except productions (even Sunday teachings are *distant* and cold from the elevated pulpit). Seems that wierwille built it on "a shoestring and a prayer"........er, a scam. :unsure:

NO.........the truth is wierwille used his cult-status, his authoritarian position, his inner circle yes-men, his motorcoach, his liquor cabinet, AND/OR drugs to advance his sexual predation. Rev. Billy Graham was a spiritual giant compared to the little piker, wierwille.

I understand......I just wanted to be specific, because it dispels little doubt (to most) that wierwille was a sick, narcisstic, perverted old man who preyed on "his cult followers." Also......Oldies, Johniam, WTH and other docvic-defenders cannot squelch wierwille's atrocities and perversions, nor can they understand this evil contempt against God, His son, and the children of light. Thus, they are deceived and deceiving others of the wierwillian idolatry that ensnares twi to this day.

Wierwille was 51......when he filmed pfal in 1967. Wierwille was 60......when PFAL '77 occurred. Any young women that wierwille drugged and raped from 1978-1982........ :blink: :blink: And......why do some vpw-defenders have to go back to the old testament and make comparison with solomon? Talk about a stretch of illogic..?? Try keeping it in perspective......the guy should have received serious jail time.

Oldies......I'm not talking about what twi *allowed*.........I'm talking about WIERWILLE'S DOCTRINE OF THE CORPS PROGRAM. If you believed God called you to go corps.....and then, signed a corps application wherein you wanted to learn and lead in A LIFETIME OF CHRISTIAN SERVICE......then according to vp "God called you to the way corps." Wierwille didn't mince words about the corps commitment.....wierwille didn't talk in gray areas of "maybe this, maybe not"........wierwille believed that corps needed to rise up in commitment and live it. NOTE: Wierwille labeled the first group of dismissals.......Zero Corps. Yes, he still kept *the corps label* on them.......very telling, wouldn't you say? And, I think his mentality really goes to the heart of the issue here. You see, oldies........you still *revere* wierwille and his policies. Yet, you cherry-pick the things you agree with and the things you do not. You like most of wierwille's packaged-sell of pfal, yet you haven't pieced together his manipulation and coersion of the indentured servitude to the mog, the corps program. Oldies.....you can't have it both ways.....double-standards, ya know. The Dr. Jekyll of PFAL is the same Mr. Hyde of the corps program. So, if you accept pfal as a standard of truth.....why don't you accept the corps program as wierwille's standard? Well, that's between you and the Father. Have a good day, Oldies. I'm done with this subject (for now).

No.....I am basing my statements on 19 Years of Corps Meetings....where wierwille (and later, lcm) gave his "requirements" for ONCE CORPS ALWAYS CORPS......no exceptions. Again.......I don't agree with wierwille's manipulation or the caste system that he implemented. BUT.........I am trying to clarify to you that *you broke your corps commitment before God* and twi expected you to go back inresidence. There is no "first one"...........according to twi. Having held many leadership positions through my 24 year involvement with twi, I had corps coordinators call me and ask about a "dismissed corps person".......wanting to know if they'd strengthened those weak areas and then, go back into the corps to fulfill their commitment. Guess I'm sorta surprised that you, oldies do NOT know these things.....or else, you are just trying to skirt around the corps issue. You were accepted.........therefore, you were responsible to graduate and go lead others. Twi doesn't abide by statistics or dismissals......but rather, by God's calling. You were called to the corps, right?

Yes......the vow was broken by YOU. It has nothing to do with making "another" vow.......twi EXPECTED you to fulfill your vow, the first one. YOU signed the corps application and commited..........the ball is in YOUR court. Just because you were dismissed doesn't EXCUSE you from fulfilling your corps vow before God. If it were THAT simple, lots of others would have opted for it. :) Don't you see it oldies.........classic MAN-MADE policies, classic twi. Seemingly, they hold the rule book......they hold the leverage. Go ahead and try to squeeze out of it, I really don't care. I'm simply telling you what twi's standards were/are. Me? I no longer hold to their system. I no longer hold wierwille's words as if they were gold-dipped and displayed above mantles of glory. To me, finally..........the curtains have been pulled back..........WAY BACK. But you, oldies.........you REVERE wierwille and yet don't know HIS policies or standard of the corps. YOU defend wierwille constantly.........yet, you fail to see the pyramid structure that kept him king of his cult. The corps program was wierwille's inner-circle cult within a cult.

Technically, if you signed the corps application AND twi accepted you.......you were corps material. Whether one leaves or is dismissed is immaterial. The fact is......you fell short and broke your vow. From twi's standpoint, the fact is ......you allowed problem areas into your life and walk before God, and thus disqualified YOURSELF from the corps commitment. Further.....it was YOUR responsibility to beef up those areas of weakness and rejoin the corps, stop back-pedaling from your corps commitment. Why do you think that SO MANY went back into the corps after leaving, or failing??.......because THAT is what twi expected "those called to the corps" to do. According to twi.......just because YOU were dismissed, that didn't absolve you from taking the necessary steps to strengthen your weak areas, renew your mind, and walk according to the corps commitment that God had called you to. You see, oldies........twi had/has a caste system. It keeps things nice and orderly.....and cult-like pristine. In this manner, twi doesn't have to waver on personal situations, personal issues. But according to their policies......it is STILL your responsibility to strengthen your walk AND GRADUATE FROM THE CORPS PROGRAM. Even corps spouses were not really accepted ........[vpw didn't like corps marrying non-corps]. Once again, oldies......you revere wierwille, but by HIS standards you are a failure. <_<

Well, according to the strictest twi standards......when you signed up for the corps and failed, you broke your vow before God. And, "being called to the corps"........UNTIL you *fixed your shortcomings* and fortified those areas in your life, and THEN went back into inresidence to graduate, you THEN received God's favor. Time and time again, I sat through corps meetings where veepee called any corps who quit....a cop-out. Wierwille was the one who got mean and nasty with the terminology in the '70s. Wierwille was the one who used every tool in the bag to manipulate the corps FROM LEAVING his corps program. Once you were accepted into the household of the corps.......IF YOU EVER LEFT FOR ANY REASON.....you broke your vow. Twi kept extensive documentation of corps reports, documents, appraisals, personal bio of all the way corps. This paperwork was kept for 10 years...............why? Yes, you say that twi "forgave" you..........but that's not WHAT THEY SAY AT CORPS MEETINGS. You can check out anytime you want, but you can NEVER leave. Welcome to Hotel Corps-is-for-ya. :) I'm NOT the one defending victor paul wierwille's cult and systematizing of errors. For me, I come to GS to bring facts and reality in focus........not sugar-coating wierwille's ministry and mogness. The guy was an opportunist, slick-savvy businessman........NOT a teacher, NOT a researcher, NOT a writer, NOT one to be trusted alone with your daughter.

And.......why do you *believe* this? What gives you the right to be spokesman over rascal's conscience and decisions? Isn't there something in the Scriptures about being a meddler, a busybody? And, oldies............please refresh my memory......why didn't you keep your vow to God by fixing the problem areas and GOING BACK INREZ...??? As I remember it......anytime ANYONE signed up to go inrez....then to not finish, that vow was broken and "their salt was worthless" etc. etc. Of course, let me add.......that I no longer believe THIS MANIPULATION FROM SAID CULT. On one hand, the Scriptures admonish us to avoid ALL APPEARANCE OF EVIL..........yet, twi propounds "keeping a corps vow" even when their founder is a known plagerist, rapist, drunkard, slick-vic.

oldies......sounds like you need to be reminded that corps training was FOR -- A Lifetime of Christian Service. Sure, I know that the ambiguity of it all got mixed together......but I seriously doubt that rascal *made a commitment to the corps* and was fixated on that. Why are you constantly attacking her????? I know, I know........this stuff has threads discussing the vast viewpoints of the corps program, the intent of the corps program, the brochures of the corps program. For me, it was NEVER about being a company-man....and tied at the hip to twi. I signed up for the corps training to learn HOW to be a better, spiritual man and run a home fellowship. Of course, from 1970 - 1978 or so the whole concept MORPHED into a "we-own-you-a$$" and the indentured servitude gained steam. For the most part, the whole corps experience vividly showed me THAT WIERWILLE WAS A CONTROL FREAK AND AN ABUSER. Of course, you are the expert on all this corps stuff. Sure, you got kicked out [because of you own doing]...... but you seem to know it forwards and backwards.

Well......surprise, surprise <_< Knowing that wierwille sat through and then stole Rev. BG Leonard's class, The Gifts of the Spirit, in 1953..... wierwille was still running with Leonard's steam. So, it's no surprise what you saw this said banner displayed in "wierwille's class" in 1954. Do the math, mike.......it fits. You see, Mike........Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, corroborates THE BACKGROUND of vpw learning this stuff FROM OTHER MEN. Here alittle, there alittle......this man, that man.......this seminar, that seminar......this book, that book.................it's all in there. So, when you attempt to vaunt wierwille as some incredible apostle......where he received "this new light as the heavens opened" you have to understand mike that SOME OF US HAVE READ MRS WIERWILLE'S BOOK. Now, you're not calling Mrs. Wierwille a liar, a deciever......are you???? :unsure:

IMO, that's why GS is so vital......it gives all of us *a voice* to share our experiences of ANOTHER twi -- the one that is propounded in their slick way mags or pre-rehearsed sunday teachings or manicured grounds........all giving off a public relations persona that this is "god's ministry." For me, Waydale and GS have validated my inner-doubts of veepee when I first saw him back in '74. To me......it is NOT possible that wierwille was who twi proclaimed him to be. Maybe, it took going into the corps for me to confirm this......seeing wierwille's treatment of "his kids"......seeing him bask in the spotlight of his "teaching glory".......seeing him sip his drambuie.........seeing him rail like an abusive father over the most petty incident.......seeing his body guard and valet front for him and cover for his screw-ups........seeing vpw delight in the upper-most seat and lauded with celebrity status like some modern-day pharisee or whatever.........and after corps and an hq-staff assignment, NOT ONCE did I ever see wierwille in a situation where I would classify it as a sign, a miracle or a wonder. To me......any mystical remnants of "wierwille as the man of god" have vanished.

Well....I SAW his meanness....and his degradation of women......and his arrogance......and his callous indifference to many corps........and his outbursts of anger......and his drambuie drinking. An axe to grind? Naw, just speaking up here at GS and tired of putting the guy on a pedestal. His actions did NOT align with I Timothy 3......veepee was unfit to lead in the church. <_<

Oldies.....why don't you take wierwille's doctrine of "the law of believing"........and BELIEVE for extra money to buy the book? <_< You seem to talk a good talk about pfal.....but you walk contrary to its "benefits."

Prior to the release of martindale's book, R&E, he shared on a corps meeting that he did NOT include any "way tree" terminology in his book......since twig, branch, etc were not specifically in the Scriptures. The concept was there [in the scriptures], but not the terminology. Yes, "twig" was radically phased out around 1993-94....whereas, "branch" was allowed to stay because it was corporately acceptable and widely used by companies. And, the use of "limb" was rarely addressed.......but it was being replaced by "state" on a number of occasions. Personally, I think the term "root" is used appropriately.......because the tops "leaders" at hq have had their head IN THE DIRT for a long, long time.

Absolutely. Rosie's NOT stuuuupid.......she knows that when she relinquishes the top seat, her power-wielding is over. Sure, she can proudly sit in the emeritus section of twi notoriety, but really.........it's ho-hum cult retirement at the compound. But, then again..............Rosie has HER OWN house and land in NC. And, money and investments..!!!! Yep, she's got lots of aces in the hole.