skyrider

Ummmm......actually, I think the sponsors paid for the "R & D" (research and development) of "the product"......in a number of stages of twi development. Many graduated corps PAID for wierwille's pyramid with years and years of service.......building the twi empire brick by brick, class by class. While wierwille waltzed around on stages from city to city and rode his harleys and sipped his drambuie.........many corps worked countless hours of set-up, class oversight, undershepherding responsibilities, etc. etc. to keep the machinery and production going. Those who "fed and fueled the steam engines of the Titanic" (the worker bees - corps) were busy doing their job while the "officers on deck" were oblivious to the impending iceberg just ahead.

Speaking of Tick.........he DID become quite a novelty in wayworld. Not only the CFS class, but the special treatment that was given to him and his puppies and grand-puppies. And......Ever notice how many twi followers became PROUD OWNERS of German shorthairs?

Maybe.......... ......by your prefacing this link with "VPW lives" might have added to your interesting findings?

Speaking of unsupportable........this is NOT the only "unsupportable" snow storm in wierwille's history of God-intervening claims. Didn't wierwille claim that he couldn't leave a Tulsa convention in 1951and head home because "all flights were cancelled" at the Tulsa airport? Then, as a result of NOT leaving (because of this snow storm)........someone was there in Tulsa who led him into speaking in tongues?? Anyways........just sorta interesting about these "snow storms." Oh......I should add, that when B@rrie H1ll from the 7th Corps spent months wanting to document this information......she found discrepancies at every turn....???

You're right.......please accept my apologies. My point............the myths regarding veepee are growing.

Linda, Mrs. Wierwille AND Karen poured over HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of the twi-historical records to bring this "latest and greatest documented biography" of vpw to the FAITHFUL HOUSEHOLD. I really don't care much either way........BUT to talk about the SUN SHINING BRIGHTLY and then (right now).... THE SKY IS PITCH BLACK, THEN HOW COULD HE KNOW IF IT WAS SNOWING?? Whatever......?? IMO.......wierwille FABRICATED THIS "PHENOMENON" to launch his mog status and stand at the top of his pyramid scheme/ministry........except wierwille mis-spoke of the snowstorm and claimed it was "pitch black." The "phenomenon" was the supposed-instantaneous snow storm....NOT the color of the sky. ..............not quite on par with a burning bush or anything, but an "instantaneous black snowstorm/sky" will do.....?? :blink:

Could it be that...........the myths of Wierwille are growing every GENERATION. In the 1800's, as stories were told and re-told......passing from generation to generation.....these stories grew and grew into folklore or folktales (exaggerated, legendary and orally passed down among the common people). Take your songbooks.........everybody sing. ......Six foot three at his ankles high ......His feet on the ground, his head in the sky, ......Hey, Pa-ul................Hey, Pa-ul ...........VICTOR PAUL BUNYAN.

You beat me to it, Rhino & Tonto. Thanks. WD..........CONTEXT, man........read it in CONTEXT......in the verse, in context or used before.........REMEMBER? Read this real s--l--o--w--l--y...........if need be. And the sun was SHINING BRIGHTLY........blah, blah, blah.........snow RIGHT NOW. Now..........what is YOUR interpretation of THAT sequence....???

Why was wierwille given a *free pass* on this "foundational claim?" Without any witnesses or substantiated facts, this claim ("vision") has been passed from nightowl to nightowl....to Whiteside's book The Way: Living in Love and Mrs. Wierwille's book Born Again to Serve. An excerpt of wierwille's account is as follows: After all this activity and reaching out to learn more, I must know to satisy my inner yearning. And so I stood in my newly rented office and prayed to the Father. "Father, teach me the Word, teach me the Word." He told me as plain as day that if I would study the Word, He would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first century. And, of course, at that time I thought, "Now that's a dandy. Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to me. The whole church will be blessed; my denomination will grow by leaps and bounds because we'll have the Word of God." And I thought that was terrrific. But during the process of that revelation, I said, "Father, how will I know that this is You and that You'll really teach it to me? Because I had worked the Word in commentaries and the rest of it, and I couldn't understand it, couldn't get it to fit. And the sun was shining brightly. It was in the fall of the year. Gorgeous. There wasn't a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, "Well, just say to the Father, "Well, if it'll just snow right now, you'll just know that this is God talking to you.'" Cause you see. I'd never had much experience with God's talking to me. And this business of His saying to me, just as audibly as I am speaking to you, that He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, sort of shook me. I'd been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn't heard that way before. Oh, my ears were perhaps clogged up. Since that time I've heard a lot of things from Him. And I said, "Lord, to know that this is true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes, and it was pitch-black, almost pitch-black outside, and the snow was falling so thick. I have never seen it fall that thick since that day. And I sat in that little office, and I cried like a baby. Because I guess it was about my time to cry because I'd grown up but I didn't know the Word. And from that day on since He promised He'd teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart to learn this Word. A black snowstorm.......????????????? :blink:

rhino..........yeah, lots of interpretations and questions arise from wierwille's "experience." I mean, really......how many rural Ohioans describe a snowstorm as a pitch black "snowstorm"...?? And further.........was it pitch black.......or "almost pitch black".......wierwille wavers. :blink: Talk about a psychological hoax.......that laid "claim" to wierwille's mog status?????????

Well, it wasn't Black rain......but it was pitch black when wierwille claimed that he saw his "vision" that God was there. Here is an excerpt from Mrs. Wierwille's book...."Born Again to Serve." After all this activity and reaching out to learn more, I must know to satisy my inner yearning. And so I stood in my newly rented office and prayed to the Father. "Father, teach me the Word, teach me the Word." He told me as plain as day that if I would study the Word, He would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first century. And, of course, at that time I thought, "Now that's a dandy. Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody will listen to me. The whole church will be blessed; my denomination will grow by leaps and bounds because we'll have the Word of God." And I thought that was terrrific. But during the process of that revelation, I said, "Father, how will I know that this is You and that You'll really teach it to me? Because I had worked the Word in commentaries and the rest of it, and I couldn't understand it, couldn't get it to fit. And the sun was shining brightly. It was in the fall of the year. Gorgeous. There wasn't a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, "Well, just say to the Father, "Well, if it'll just snow right now, you'll just know that this is God talking to you.'" Cause you see. I'd never had much experience with God's talking to me. And this business of His saying to me, just as audibly as I am speaking to you, that He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, sort of shook me. I'd been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn't heard that way before. Oh, my ears were perhaps clogged up. Since that time I've heard a lot of things from Him. And I said, "Lord, to know that this is true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes, and it was pitch-black, almost pitch-black outside, and the snow was falling so thick. I have never seen it fall that thick since that day. And I sat in that little office, and I cried like a baby. Because I guess it was about my time to cry because I'd grown up but I didn't know the Word. And from that day on since He promised He'd teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart to learn this Word. Note: I've been in dozens of heavy snowstorms, and even blizzards......yet, I'd describe them as WHITE-OUT conditions, not black. <_<

Why is it........someone, who defends twi on countless threads and relishes in those "good old daze,"....... be PROUD of never working on twi staff statomg being "way closer TO THE REAL WORLD???? Just seems like a HUGE disconnect here. Wierwille WAS twi's founding president. Wierwille WAS the top-man over all policies and procedures at twi. Wierwille WAS the spiritual head and captain of twi's "ship." Wierwille SAT on the "throne" overseeing staff meetings. Wierwille CHOSE martindale and later ran to Geer before his death. HOW???......in all logic and integrity (etc) does A TWI-DEFENDER not see this disconnect??????

Hmmmmm.............now that I think about it......don't remember wierwille BURNING HIS DOG-PORN VIDEO.

Linda, From what I remember.......1978-1982 was when Uncle Harry Day surfaced and peaked in twi. Harry died in the Fall of 1977.......his birthday was March 17th (I believe??.....GEE, how can I remember this stuff after all these years) and this "travel light / get rid of stuff / toss things that are holding you back / burn the chaff in your life" was a day set aside to commemorate VPW's big brother, Harry Wierwille. At hq (1981, 82)....there was a *fire-area* for those who wanted to come and burn things before going to the Sunday Teaching Service. When LCM became president and onward.....the concept slowly died out [especially when the Poop paper took center-stage for 2 1/2 years. By 1994, 95 (??).....LCM stated that this concept was no longer needed. He stated that most all were living the sanctified lifestyle and were discerning on ridding evil intrusions on a regular (daily?) basis. No longer was this once-a-year concept needed. Anyways.......that's the way I remember it.

Martindale's "system" for getting your twi-kids into college was.............(drum roll, please....tatatatatatatatatatatatatatatata) ..............get the GRANDPARENTS to pay for it. Yeah......the parents who saw THEIR kid quit college.....and go WOW.....and go into the Corps.....and move every 3 years......and never come home for holidays, or birthdays, or anniversaries, or even funerals. Yep, THOSE parents of the koolade kid.....and NOW the GRANDPARENTS of never-seen, long-snubbed, college-bound kids. For twi.......that's THE WAY to beg.

Now, in 2008............is twi STILL considered a cult? I guess what intrigues me is.......since Waydale exposed twi's sordid laundry for all to see, complete with document after document and first-hand accounts of present abuse....and then, Greasespot has followed its successor for ANOTHER 7 YEARS..... has twi back-peddled to an average high-demand religious organization? ******* Definition of a cult....this information is found on the HTML Document section (written by Ex-Twi) The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines a cult as "a system of religious worship; devotion, homage to person or thing." Nowadays, in the public mind, the word "cult" is more likely to be associated with brainwashing manipulation of followers, public scandals over leaders' sex lives, murder and mass suicide, rather than religious worship. One of the difficulties of defining a religious cult is that it is an organization in a condition of gradual change. A religious cult may be encountered in its early, middle or late stages of evolution [bold-faced for emphasis]. At its beginning the cult consists of a small group of people focused around a benign leader to whom individuals are attracted. At its end, it can become a manipulative, exploitative, multi-national organization. What most people mean when they speak of a cult, is a New Religious Group (NRG) which has acquired the characteristics of a mid-late stage evolution. It is possible, by using an evolutionary line, to identify at which point the group you are in or are considering joining, has evolved to and how it might be expected to develop. There are approximately 40 characteristics of cult life. However, in identifying a NRG which has evolved into a dangerous cult, it is really only necessary to observe the lifestyle of the leader and the attitude of members to the leader, to make a diagnosis. By the time a NRG has evolved to its mid-late stage, the leader is authoritarian, declaring herself or himself to be divine (added by Ex Twi) or having a special relationship with God and is considered to be so by many of the members. ******* As far as I know about present-day twi......no one REALLY believes that Rosalie is "the authority, speaking for God Almighty." In fact, today's twi doesn't have a front-runner charismatic spokesperson, does it? BUT........there is still this strict adherence to PFAL. Wierwille died of cancer and is long gone. Martindale was ousted and sent packing to Toledo. And now......Rosalie is trying to stoke the fires with man-dated pfal resurgence. Since Rosalie took the helm.....a couple of thousand have exited, corps enrollment is pathetically low, camp gunnison is being used for family camps, and their way disciple program sounds like its lost steam and momentum. All in all, just sounds like rosalie is a behind-the-scenes planner and guarding twi's assets. In fact, their name.....The Way International.....is very misleading. Heck, they're hardly "national"......how many states don't even have a Limb presence? Informing their followers to stay off the internet. Expecting the 2 X 2 when grocery shopping....... Just seems to me today's twi is kinda AMISH-ISH.

Thanks penworks. Interesting......"VP conducted The Way Presents in an attempt to immitate Billy Graham's crusades....." I do remember when wierwille was spotlighting Oral Roberts' ministry as well......and later adapted The Red Thread teaching from Roberts. Wierwille always hyped twi as the latest and greatest..........critiquing and back-stabbing all-oncomers. No wonder that elitist attitude permeated twi.......and still does.

So true. While inresidence, I remember hearing wierwille sharing about the early twi years......and, even in the early 60s the Ohio congregants would fade away after the novelty of wierwille's preaching wore off. That's why.....on those old Sunday teaching tapes, wierwille makes a big deal of singling out certain of the faithful who came to the BRC week after week. And then.....Peter J. W@de cut ties with wierwille right after pfal was filmed. Differences in doctrine? Or, differences in where he knew it would lead? Me?.............From what I experienced, by PFAL '77......the rules and regs increased. More corps, more structure, more marketing, more propaganda, more conformity..........more corps training locations, more power and control for wierwille. Also, by 1977........wierwille was 60 years old and striving for his narcisstic agendas and legacy.

Thanks chef. In hindsight, their double-speak, double-life is really pathetic. The trustees/directors past and present, are hypocrits. For them.......abundant life means.......land holdings, motorcycles, planes, motorcoaches, etc. power............manipulation, control and dominance over others prevailing.......using and abusing as many of the gullible as possible standing on the word......staying with the fold NO MATTER HOW MANY wolves are in the pen leaving twi........possessed internet............evil lies and possession, always possession

One channel, one agenda, one mindset...........The Way, The Way and nothing but The Way International. For 24 years, I kept my tell-a-vision tuned to ONE CHANNEL.......The Way Channel. During those years, I went out WOW Ambassador twice, graduated from The Way Corps, served on staff at The Way International, and served in many corps assignments including full-time corps when martindale instituted "his revelation" in 1995. IMO......The Way Channel started expanding its market and, more agressively, separated from other Christian work in 1975 (after acquiring The Way College of Emporia). Even those earlier years of the Advanced Class (until about 1979) included clips and segments of OTHER genuine Christian leaders who walked with God and received revelation....or ministered healings in a unique way. But, alas.......The Way Channel removed ALL such information and hyped ONLY wierwille's ministry, leadership and twi-sanctioned programming. Those MOST knowledgeable of The Way Channel would have to be corps and hq staff.......for they, indeed, saw the imagery and inner sanctums of "wayworld." Wierwille set the systematizing of error in motion......and Martindale took it to greater extremes. Just to list a few.... * The Way Inc. in 1957 [E. Stanley Jones' work on The Way was published in 1946] * The Way Corps Program * The Way College of Emporia * The Way College Division * The Way College, Indiana Campus * The Way Ranch, Camp Gunnison * The Way Magazine * The Way: Living in Love [in-house book] * The Way Woods [and "holy of holies" prayer area....The House of His Healing Presence] * The Victor Paul Wierwille Prevailing Word Auditorium * Founders' Room [in auditorium] * Founders' Hall * Wierwille Road / Wierwille Homestead / Wierwille Barn * Garden of Living Waters [wierwille buried at uppermost point of fountain area] * Founding Trustee Monument at entrance to fountain area * Founding Trustee plaques in BRC * George Jess mural on OSC building [he was the first corps director] * EOB [formerly known as "Executive Office Building" and later, renamed "Ermal Owens Building"] * Uncle Harry Day [burn the Ballast / Burn the Chaff.....lcm declared it an old wineskin] * Disciples of The Way [formerly, WOW Ambassador program] * The Way of Abundance and Power [LCM's new foundational class released in 1996] Except for the "Pentecost painting".......there is very little at The Way International to suggest it is anything other than a rural-business undertaking. In other words, 98% of the imagery focuses on an entrepeneurial figurehead (wierwille) and his pyramid system. Nearing 23 years after his death......twi clings to the wierwille marketing and packaging planner with their yearly theme Our Power for Abundant Living. God forbid.....someone would turn to The Discovery Channel Or, God forbid.......any would venture into The (twi) History Channel. Thankfully............I found The Travel Channel.

Yes, Hamm......WHAT ABOUT WIERWILLE??? HE displayed and gloated over his beastiality porn video...........HUNDREDS OF US SAY IT. HE showed his porn video in classroom settings a few times (4-6?) over the years...... HE called a young girl forward in a public meeting to show her HIS PORN PEN.........HUNDREDS SAW IT. This was NOT speculation.....like WD responded to your post.....there were hundreds of corps who were eye-witnesses of wierwille's demented character and lusts. In any other academic institution......besides an isolated cult in cornfield creek.......Wierwille would have been charged with CRIMES and listed as a sexual offender.

Yeah.......and concerning allegations against wierwille......if one were to speak in legal terms (and I'm no lawyer) doesn't substantiating evidence come into play? Like...... KNOWN FACT..............Wierwille kept in his possession pornography (two girls/dog flick). KNOWN FACT..............Wierwille showed a *porno pen* to a young girl in a Family Corps setting. KNOWN FACT..............Wierwille plagairized many sources. Even Mrs. Wierwille's book gives evidence. KNOWN FACT..............Wierwille demanded "From Birth to Corps" papers [intent??....to target certain girls?] KNOWN FACT..............Wierwille degraded his wife in public meeting. KNOWN FACT..............Wierwille taught lock-box [for personal agenda]. KNOWN FACT..............Wierwille side-stepped teaching on adultery. KNOWN FACT..............Geer had Shoenheit fired from staff for his paper on adultery. KNOWN FACT..............Wierwille died of cancer......and trustees claimed he died of a "broken heart." KNOWN FACT..............Wierwille taught that cancer was a devil spirit.....[wowsers!!!!] KNOWN FACT..............other things GS has documented All of this *substantiating evidence* would certainly perk the ears of the jury......if these known facts were presented in a court of law. So when some corps girl shares her experience of wierwille groping her or sexually assaulting her in the motorcoach.........perhaps the jury would NOT be so disallusioned by wierwille's public persona as some pfal-idolaters are when hearing ANOTHER SIDE OF TWI and WIERWILLE.

Yeah.....in hindsight, it was probably "another one of his stories." Wierwille definitely planted this one in the student's mind for maximum impact on his doctrine of *the law of believing.* This woman had FEAR.......and her son died. In contrast, wierwille cites how HE operated this *law of believing* with his family. HE prayed with his family at the breakfast table (implication ---- without fear)......and his family flourished. (another story??) What about wierwille hauling some 3,000 volumes of commentaries to the trash dumpster?? What about his story of black heart/ white heart revelation? Just another made-up story?? Is it real.....or is it memorex??

What???!!!???.......you mean, he made that sh1t up? How about the "red drapes" story? Not real, either??? How about the "India--train scene?" Not real, either???

In pfal, wierwille tells the story of the mother and her son. As he builds the story to a climax.....giving the students the vivid mind picture of this mother worrying and worrying about her "little Johnnie." According to vicster....."she *held that fear and held that fear until ONE DAY, IT HAPPENED. Little Johnnie was killed outright." Wierwille continues to say......"YOU KNOW what killed that little boy, you just quit your yakking................ IT WAS THE FEAR IN THE HEART OF THAT WOMAN THAT KILLED HER LITTLE BOY. Why didn't wierwille use the word *alleged* murderer......??? No conviction, right?? Or.......was wierwille the judge and jury and news reporter at the scene of this crime? Note: This thread needs to be read in context with The Voice of Offense thread.