skyrider

Most likely, twi.....after submerging to "deeper waters"......would like to re-emerge with a NEW perspective, a NEW "ministry," a NEW image......leaving behind those grandiose Martinfail blunders. And, although martindale was sent packing......their "new" foundational class carries the same name (Way of Abundance and Power)....and the presentation of material is fairly consistent with martindale's version? Whereas.....if the class numbers are AGAIN pitifully low........now what do they do??? Also it deserves mentioning, just below the surface......the legalism persists. Wasn't it just last February when that Advanced Class letter was sent out detailing a list of requirements and monitoring (i.e. twi was getting nitty-gritty with SNACKS)? Is twi PREVAILING..............in silent mode..??

Compared to past years.........the *silence* of twi speaks volumes. Makes me think of that old submarine move.......Run Silent, Run Deep. In my associations with some twi-followers on the fringes, it seems.......twi continues to submerge to "deeper waters" to escape detection from "the enemy" (internet/greasespot). Or maybe, as the aging bod try to direct twi, they just seem content on keeping a status quo........and watch twi's investments grow. Just thinking out loud here: 1) Has their new foundational class been embrased by their followers.....and recruitment purposes? 2) Is there going to be a summer Advanced Class at hq?........and are snacks still being monitored? 3) The dismal corps program is now conducted at hq......will more than 6 graduate this summer? 4) What does twi do with camp gunnison 9 months out of the year....when family camps are not run there? 5) With so little written communication coming out of twi nowadays.....is this a positive or detrimental affect? 6) Now that martindale has been "hidden away" for 7 years........can he now go back thru the corps program? 7) Last question........are they "prevailing in the promised land" yet?? Questions, questions??.........maybe I'm in a questioning mood today, don't know.

Speaking of "questionable muttering"........Isn't it interesting that wierwille admits to deceiving those Tulsa men at that conference when they tried to lead him into speaking in tongues and wierwille spoke in high German..?? Anyone remember that?

Mike, Mike.........nice try to side-step and move this little discussion towards re-search, but......you're missing the point. There were CLASSES on: 1) Keys to Research, 2) Witnessing & Undershepherding, 3) The Renewed Mind, 4) Dealing with the Adversary, and 5) The Way Tree.....as I recall. Why the CLASS on The Way Tree..?? Surely, wierwille had MORE in mind than just building a WHOLE CLASS around "an analogy" (as you attempt to allude to) ??? Could there be a..........S - U - B - T - L -E.......A - G - E - N - D - A ?????

First of all.......an ANALOGY is one thing, but a DIFINITIVE, CONCEPTUAL STRUCTURE WITH AN ACCOMPANYING DOCTRINED-BASED CLASS -- The Way Tree -- AND COPYRIGHTED LOGO for the way international is something far, far different. Wierwille had his little-jonny-t0wns3nd-do-good teach that "way tree" class......using much of the Book of Acts to augment and document it. Later, that class was shelved.......IIRC, the research-types at hq saw too many holes in the way-tree-doctrine and helped to pull it from further contaminating young minds. Another THUD........for the wierwille campaign before his death. Why wasn't there a class like MEMBERS IN PARTICULAR -- detailing the unique and diversified ways that God works with His chosen ones? Why wasn't there a class entitled CHRIST IS THE HEAD -- an advanced teaching on Christ's responsibilities and duties as mediator/intercessor/advocate in relation to those walking by the spirit of God? Oh, silly me...........THEN such biblical truths would have RIGHTFULLY RESTORED BIBLICAL TRUTHS that wierwille was deceptively disguising in his "way tree" structure and all "nourishment" coming from THE ROOT LOCATION AT WAYWORLD.

Indeed! Yeah......the leaf / twig / branch / limb / trunk structure.....the whole twi structure was wrong. In its onset, wierwille structured his ministry on a premise that was unbiblical. And, in doing so.....he distorted the essence and core of a genuine, Christian walk with Christ as the head of the One Body. This distortion permeated "the way tree"...... ......giving the whole cult-like experience an exclusive club of way-isms [...all other Christian denominations...and "trees"....were not a part of "the way tree"...]. To this day, the wayspeak concept and analogy lives and is nourished in terminology like OFFSHOOTS. The "ONshoots" were never ON to begin with.

Thanks PB It seems apparent that Authoritarian Rulership (religious or political).....where strict, unbending policies and dominant rule overpower and castigate individual and community freedoms.....is a bondage and enslavement towards the independent-willed and revolutionary types. Thus, when I look back at my twi tenure......I see Wierwille fixated on UNCONTESTED CONTROL. EVERYTHING.......the "hook-shot founder".....The Teacher.....The Man of God bracelot he wore...the dominant figure of the "trustees"....headquartering at the wierwille homestead.....the corps/"marine corps" [complete with conspiracy theories].....the squelching of music talent & abilities in twi.... and etc. etc. And, in ONE GENERATION.....poof!......it vanished. Yeah, some record of "greatness" for sure. Anyhoo.................. Polar Bear.............enjoy the sunshine and ENJOY YOUR FREEDOM.

Jonny......if you're talking about S@ng@t B@ins........yes, I think that he and HIS ministry have done well in bringing deliverance to the Indian people. But.........apples and oranges, I think that the WIERWILLE ADULATION was left on the doorstep of U.S.A. borders and I haven't heard where he was doing a corps program with the EXACT same principles. <_<

Other corps-style training history??.... .....Didn't the Canadian corps thing run into government/zoning/visa issues and got canned? .....Didn't the Gartmore corps thing run into policies/ego/money/??? issues or whatever? .....Now, this mcmxllxn/wierwille "corps" training starts in yet another ISOLATED situation..... :blink:

Rascal, Yeah.......HOW can anyone hook their train to the Wierwille Loco-motive and, again, travel down those obligatory PFAL Train Tracks and EXPECT A DIFFERENT OUTCOME?? :blink:

The irony of it all...... If I recall correctly, prior to vp wierwille deciding to move twi's headquarters to the wierwille homestead near New Knoxville.......many faithful followers near Troy, Ohio wanted wierwille to "set up shop" there. Well, it didn't happen.....and after Harry and VP bought out Rueben's share, the old farmhouse and property became the epicenter of twi. And, now...........CFF in Tipp City (just south of Troy) is the re-surging "genuinely-wierwille" ministry of the 21st Century. With an outreach program and now a corps-style training program (with vpw's exact corps principles in place to highlight its goals/direction)......it seems da ja vue (sp?) all over again. I must admit......I have no dog in this fight......but as a corps grad who followed twi's company line for 24 yrs, I look back and SEE how young and naive one can be while a 58 year old wierwille talks about life, "spiritual matters" and "living for something bigger than yourself" around nightowl campfires. Yep.......mow the grass, weed the flower beds, clean the dishes, set up tables, string the chairs, shovel the snow, etc. etc.........all in the name of "moving the word over the world" while twi socks away $45 million and trustees go elk hunting, go to the Bahamas, vacation in Florida, etc. VP Wierwille marketed his pfal product and polished his stage persona......BUT when the cameras were off much of his lifestyle depicted a carnal man, a man of the flesh. And, to this day.......there seem to be pockets of wierwillite followers who live in pfal rewind. But hey........if some want to go spend time on a farm in Mississippi.....living in a commune-style setting and all, it could have some beneficial value for sure. BUT.........if it's a subtle attempt to resurrect the wierwille adulation WHEREIN CHRIST IS NOT THE HEAD then I'd say that any and all spiritual value just went down the toilet.

Maybe I'm just curious..... Maybe I should write a cult book.

Yeah.....lots of questions, now that over 30 years have passed for some of us. 11) What does 24/7 really mean? Prayer vigils? Sleep deprivation? 12) Do I need sponsors? Parents' weekends? Snack runs to local store? 13) How are Holidays handled? Thanksgiving? Christmas? St. Patricks? 14) At the end of the program, then what? A graduation? Another program? More hoops? Done? 15) Is this "outdoorsy training" equipping one to run fellowships? Run classes? Leadership in cff? 16) Will spiritual protocol be enforced? Adulation for Dr. Wierwille? History of wierwille's ministry? 17) Cell phones? Internet access? DVDs? Music videos? Self-structure time? 18) If sickness or hospitalized for a bit, will I be sent packing? What are your policies? 19) Will there be a curriculum? Hands-on biblical researching? Or, just non-dialogue classes? 20) Will students be handled individually or is this another clone factory? Questions, questions..........

Like so many ventures.......at this point, it's at its infantile stage where the first group of volunteers should be handled with extreme care, concern and love. I do not doubt this. But I also think, that if as this "training center" moves along........more commitment will be required, obviously. Questions that arise: 1) Who owns the land? 2) Who are the beneficiaries of this free-labor and land improvements? 3) Will volunteers be doing farmwork.....driving tractor, harvesting grain, feeding livestock??? 4) Are those 6-8 people full-time? drawing salaries? qualified instructors? medical assistance? 5) Is there a board of directors over the "corps-style" coordinator? 6) What if someone has a legitimate grievance? Are checks & balances in place? 7) Is "the law of believing" going to be the foundation? What if someone has allergies? 8) Will there be a light-bearers event? Hitch-hiking? Final reports and evaluations filed away? 9) If successful, will a form of caste system evolve like it did in twi? 10) Is this project another attempt to whitewash vpw's past and re-write the twi-story? Questions? Questions?...........Once (deeply) burned, twice shy.

Have I got this right??........ CFF has an outreach program....where individuals are sent out to nearby cities to work, to witness AND to offer their "foundational class."? Also, CFF has established a fellow-laborers program in Ohio.....kinda like twi used to have? Also, CFF is NOW establishing a Corps training program...........24/7 training (??) for candidates that qualify and want to pay money to chop wood, weed gardens, plant corn, bake rhubarb pie, etc. AND learn some Bible verses and listen to tapes? AMAZING..!!.......to think that Sar@ Wierwille Gu1gu0 is full-time staff and standing next to her husband near the top of CFF and jp wierwille throwing in his support in this corps-style training.......AND grandson VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE name recognition.......AND shroyer now out of the picture...... Maybe the TRUE BLUE wierwillite followers are "truly believing" to bring those early twi good ole days back again...!!?? And.......if this corps training center adds a dog kennel with a few German shorthairs, a wierwille barn, and some nightowls.............poof!.........back to 1970 again. :blink:

According to the website/slideshow......October 5, 2007 was the Groundbreaking. Interesting.......doesn't twi celebrate their anniversary on October 3rd (??.....or the first weekend of October each year?) How many other *similarities* will surface? Surely, the "BRC meeting room" will have a few pictures of Grandpa Wierwille training his dogs or holding a Bible? But hey.......didn't Evel Kneivel's son and/or grandson want to preserve the legacy of dear ole grandpa?? I mean, what the heck.......it's a free country!

Rocky........some of what you're saying, I understand.......BUT you need to stop and see SEVERAL aspects that trigger a *oh-no-here-we-go-again* response. Namely: 1) Victor Paul Wierwille..............grandson, Victor Paul Wierwille. 2) EXACT SAME CORPS PRINCIPLES..........indeed a direct connection to twi. 3) Corps Principles trigger a myriad of responses, concerns, skepticism. 4) Website uses vague and non-commital language. 5) Pictures of wood/stacking wood........Grandpa Wierwille was KNOWN for this too. 6) Rural picture in MS.......why so remote and isolated.....twi was into rural setting. From where I sit.......I can certainly see WHY some posters are highly skeptical......and, in Lingo's thread on this subject many of these issues were discussed back and forth........a thread (link) that Lingo brought forward on the About the Way forum. Peace.

"Checking them out........singing some songs and having a cookie." Uumm........might I suggest that to *truly* check them out and really see for yourself.......you'd have to: 1) Stick around a while........six months? 2) Give 12% of your income, faithfully. 3) Go on some witnessing nights, report back. 4) Take the NEW foundational class.....then, evaluate. 5) Attend HQ a couple of times....sit in those Sunday services while the script is read. 6) Try to meet with one or two of the BOD.......check em out, face to face. 7) Also, go to a Limb meeting.....help with setup, cleanup, recruiting, etc. 8) Six months, minimum.......then come back to GS and report? :) Just to go to one local twig......and eat a cookie......HARDLY QUALIFIES ONE'S CHECKING THEM OUT C'mon oldies..............surely you'd DO more than that!? I mean, really.......how could you possible evaluate twi on the basis of such superficial perusal?

Kevin........no, I don't recall ever hearing your name mentioned........but then, mark & avoid policies were never really issued on a national level. As martindale and geer and lynn (the big namers) took their stances, it was rare to hear about "the little guy" out there.......no offense......it's just that, in looking back, it seems to me that these guys got heated up over *a turf war*....or alpha male complex....until boundaries were, again, re-established. Your description of the DC area and its Region/Limb leadership add greatly to the argument that twi's Region guys wielded a big club, at times. Heck......looking back, I now see that lots of ego and division was brewing by 1980.......even when wierwille ordained cgeer in the brc and sent him "on assignment to oversee europe." IMO, the martindale/geer schism was detected by wierwille and "a parting of the ways (a new assignment and continent)" was nothing more than patching a dike that would later bust open............AND IT DID. Anyhoo......lots of different ways to look at all this stuff.

*.....bumped I was asked to locate this thread for someone who lurks here. :)

Well........"for the record" ( :) ) I think that some people give way too much credit to twi for things learned and life's experiences. My life were pretty darn good before twi......I just wanted to find some spiritual ground to stand on as I ventured thru life. Having been raised in rural USA......I learned HOW to work at an early age. Playing guitar in a small band and competitive in varsity football and basketball, my life was quite full BEFORE college.....and before twi. For the record..............IMO the corps experience was a SHAM. It was NOT what twi promoted it to be. It was an INDOCTRINATION PROCESS TO FOLLOW WIERWILLE AND HIS DOCTRINES. When one steps away and honestly evalutes its ethics, motives, subtleties, manipulations, etc.........the epicenter of this experience was BEWITCHMENT from the simplicity that was in Christ. Sure.......I had some laughs, made a few friends.......but geez louise, it's not all that hard to see that wierwille strong-armed and abused the young and naive corps students with his "authoritative stature." Wierwille died of cancer.......and to him, it was A DEVIL SPIRIT. :blink: Need I say more????

wth.......don't you mean 360 degrees?

I couldn't agree more. Gee.......with internet usage, twi cannot begin to CONTROL their followers' connections, conversations, contacting ex-twiers, etc. etc. Twi is all about keeping their "customer base" in the same holding patterns...... not venturing outside the nine dots of twi doctrine and legalism. Heck.....twi highly frowns on their followers conversing with any innie ACROSS TOWN IN ANOTHER FELLOWSHIP. Why is that? CONTROL..........unapologetically CONTROL The "walls of Zion".........have IMPRISONED them.

Could it be......?? S.O.W.E.R.S. Stuck On Wierwille Epicycle Regulates Spirituality

rhino.....in my analogy, I called it a "pyramid"......NOT a "pyramid scheme." Think Pharoah.......think slave-labour toiling with oppressive task-masters........think heavy manual labor while oppressors stand around. Or, the Titanic engine-workers.............same type of analogy. If I'd said a "pyramid scheme"........then, yes you are absolutely correct.