skyrider

:blink: :blink: :blink: Post #85 and #87 -- Click Here It seems that your opinions and comments on that thread....A lifetime of Christian service.....were in question since you never went Corps. Obviously, this background knowledge was quite revealing in light of your adamant statements.

PB...... I wonder........is Rosie's corps being trained on a higher level than Loy's..????? A perpetual caste-system/elitist attitude..........I don't miss it at all.

One more thing, oldies..................Happy Resurrection Sunday! HE IS RISEN.

Oldies......yes it is simple......and most scripture is pretty straight-forward...... as long as one's actions are to the Lord......and align with scripture. But in the bizarre world of isolation and cult double-speak........some corps girls were persuaded and seduced with "a whatsoever".......to meet the mog in his motorcoach for some "whatsoever" whoopee. It is disgusting behavior from anyone in authority....besides "a minister for God." :(

Ham......yeah, the plan is to BLEND the program/organization and "serving God" as ONE. If one believes that all his actions within the group "serve God"......THEN cleaning toilets, cleaning parking lots, ushering at the meetings, babysitting, servicing the mog.......ALL ACTIONS WILL BE REWARDED AT THE BEMA. That's why......there's ALWAYS a fusion of the two..... "serving God and serving twi" are machined and marketed as ONE AND THE SAME. Churches do it.....denominations do it........but add the isolation/full-scale manipulation and mog status wherein hasn't been seen since the first century as in twi......and the result is a cult environment. That's why.......even 40 years later.....the best that wierwille-defenders can summon as reference is plaf. They can't go near the corps experience BECAUSE ITS WROUGHT WITH MALICIOUSNESS, DECEITFULLNESS AND HYPOCRISY BY WIERWILLE & CO.

cman & others.....who have joined in this discussion of late. A little over 2 years ago, this corps topic namely A lifetime of Christian service was a hot-topic of discussion........as many who frequent GS probably remember. WhiteDove took the posture of "corps brochures and fulfilling what one signed up to do"......Click Here My post (#54).....was in response to WD's staunch approach to the stated corps brochure. THEN.....I responded to this corps brochure that WD presented: Okay......let's just look at this. Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve.......serve where??....in areas of concern, interest and need. Succinct. Simple. Vague. Where they serve depends upon their desire.........THEIR desire.....(their) ability, and the needs of the ministry. First mentioned is THEIR DESIRE. Is it mentioned first, because THAT is the most important priority? Their ability is also an important quality. And, the needs of the ministry are included in the mix. Two of the three points make note of the INDIVIDUAL. Thanks whitedove.................I can agree with twi's logic of the INDIVIDUAL'S DESIRE listed first. That's the way I understood it when I signed on the line. :) ......For some reason....this topic is of much interest to WhiteDove -- who never went corps.

Fair enough. And.....I would like to add, the 1953 "pfal" class....had aspects of truth that could and should be attributed to Rev. B.G. Leonard. Enough said.

penworks.......thanks. Clearly, what a corp person signed up for....and what wierwille EXPECTED and DEMANDED.....were lightyears apart. Your experience, again, confirms what so many corps have expressed. IMO......wierwille was narcisstic and obsessed with himself as some "great one." Obviously, he had drank his own kool-aide for decades........believing and mesmerized by unverifiable "phenomenon".......signed his name to plagiarized works of others.......wore "The Man of God" silver bracelot.......and sipped his drambuie and smoked his shorties in front of thousands "at his feet." It seems apparent that wierwille's standard mode of operation was to "sweet-talk the corps program".......get those teenagers and early 20 year-olds to sign up........then delve into the foundational aspects again for about six weeks or so......THEN pull off the kid-gloves and shout his bravado on commitment from center ring. The Result??........new-corps-bies would be intimidated and silenced into submission. This verbal abuse is very little different that what happens on the domestic scene behind closed doors. And, ya know.....it worked year after year. But.......there was a period (1977-1982).....when twi needed more WORKERS (and business leaders and $$$) to help sustain the growth in twi. They wanted corps committed to THEIR WORK....of course.....but they also wanted corps to go out into the work force and businesses and FAITHFULLY TITHE. Heck, the campses were bulging with wide-eyed "leaders" everywhere........but, at THAT time, that's not what they needed. And, one more thing........the corps program was static, not dynamic. In other words.......they never wanted to take into account that people GREW UP, and married, and had families, and careers, and extended family responsibilities, and homeownership duties, and A LIFE OUTSIDE TWI'S 'boot camp training.' No wonder......some 3,000 corps have MOVED ON WITH THEIR LIVES.

EXACTLY! Generic bland concepts and doublespeak lay the groundwork for deception and confusion. Shrouded in generalizing and ambiguity......Corps Objective #5 -- Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need. It does NOT say.......Upon corps graduation, you are dutifully bound to take yearly assignments from The Way International for the rest of your life. Each year, you will undergo corps evaluations and you are responsible to attend and work at every Branch, Limb and Region conference for the rest of your life. Every Wednesday, you are responsible to be on a Corps Phone-Hookup to receive further instructions and verbal abuse for the rest of your life. And, if we need you in another state.....then you need to uproot your family, pull your kids from their schools, get your new job and housing and believe God to meet your needs. Also, the twi leadership has full rights to inspect your finances, scrutinize your lifestyle, sanction marriages and pregnancies and pets, and be sure that you've rid your life of all worldly music and distractions and influences. Oh,.......and the internet is evil. Stay off of it. C'mon................... THE REASON CORPS NUMBERS .....NOW.....ARE SO PITIFULLY LOW IS BECAUSE.........NOW......TWI'S BOARD OF DIRECTORS HAVE GIVEN OPEN DISCLOSURE AND UNCOMPROMISING PRESENTATIONS OF WHAT THEY EXPECT FROM THE CORPS AND ITS "ORIGINAL CONCEPT." One can easily trace elements of deception and manipulation throughout wierwille's "ministry." And, at age 54, wierwille was ready to spin his "school of tyrannus" into the twi mix. Shame on WIERWILLE....and his core supporters.....for his unscrupulous tactics and programs.

Oldies........seeing how you jumped on my last sentence, I thought it better to show you the CONTEXT of several things in my post. And, Oldies.......you say that you don't like to talk doctrine......but the corps program was taught a plethora of other toxic doctrines. Heck, even wierwille's teaching that "cancer is a devil spirit" SHOULD open a few eyes, right?......since wierwille died of cancer. Add the conspiracy theories, add the holocaust "hoax" teachings, add the Jonestown stuff, add the documented plagiarism, add the "all nine all the time" jibberish, add the paranoia of geer and others whom wierwille allowed close to him, etc. etc...................all these dots CONNECT TO ONE BIZARRE, NARCISSTIC MAN. When some keep bringing up pfal jargon............lots of us corps were introduced to wierwille's world as he saw it. :blink: :blink:

Bears repeating.................I always kept twi and God seperate. Ever-so-subtle though.......twi was endeavoring to MESH THE TWO TOGETHER. Cliches were a used often............"The word is the ministry and the ministry is the word."............. :blink: Other cliches like..........."It's the word, the word and nothing but the word.".......or......"We have no friends when it comes to the word." Yep.....no wonder EVEN TODAY there are those who postulate....."Pfal is the word and the word is pfal." Or.......those accepted into the corps program were/are CALLED OF GOD. I know, I know............all churches and denominations do it. But then......not all had a founding president who drank his coffee/drambuie while he taught his seminary students, sexually assaulted some female students, openly plagiarized from others, adamantly taught that the holocast was a hoax, that popes were born of the wrong seed, or a plethora of other toxic doctrines.......BUT THEN, it seems that most wierwille-defenders embrace his "pfal foundation" and NOT ALL THE OTHER STUFF. Of course, many of those stern "defenders of wierwille's faith"..........NEVER WENT CORPS and sat thru his explosive temper-tantrums, his vicious criticisms, and all.

Another change...........around 1981 or 1982, the corps logo was changed. The corps logo WAS a five-pointed star with an inner circle......and a 'C' (for Christ) in the core center. Apparently, the program was view to be 'christ-centered'.........with strength and ability derived from there. The corps logo WAS CHANGED to a five-sided pentagon.......with double borders, the five gift ministries (apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers) 'bordering' each side. Inside the pentagon logo were an opened-bible, a sword, and 12 oak leaves.....symbolizing spiritual learning, the sword of the spirit and strength (oak leaves). Others may describe it better, but that's what I remember. In hindsight...........I find it amazing to see how much was shifting and changing at the converging point of wierwille stepping down. But....like Groucho has stated, the deception and lies from the trustees were in the fabric of many corps. And now, when one steps back and puts the pieces together............the puzzle is NO LONGER puzzling.........wierwille conned us with sleight of hand.....

Highway.......I thought of a couple more tidbits. Again, during those "bulging years of growth"........(1977-1982) wierwille/trustees had so many irons in the fire that they couldn't keep up with things.......and the corps program was directed to train twig coordinators AND spiritually strengthen those who had long suits in 'helps & governments.' 1) Way Builders.......during these building years, there was a huge need for the vast talents in the building trades. With five campus locations, the osc building in transition to the new office areas, the corps chalet, camp gunnison projects, etc. etc........need for project managers, contractors, engineers, surveyors, electricians, plumbers, etc. Many of these corps guys SPENT MORE TIME WORKING THEIR TRADE......than sitting in classes in the corps program. 2) Flight Services.....wierwille needed 'spiritually sharp' pilots (and motorcoach drivers). Some of these people simply went into the corps BECAUSE wierwille wanted them to be 'their best' at doing assigned work. Again, this area goes into that 'helps/govt' area.........(kinda like the OT building of the temple --- different trades, craftsmen). 3) The Way Orchestra......several international students came to the U.S. and into the corps.......the talent was absolutely amazing. Lots of wonderful, talented people. 4) The Snow-Way..........two family corps guys, with amazing ability....were designing an all-terrain vehicle and had direct access to wierwille for anything that was needed. 5) Indy Car Racing Sponsor?......some guy was soliciting twi for sponsorship for his race car. Since wierwille was an avid fan of the Indianapolis 500......twi almost jumped on-board. 6) Divine Design...........lots of great artists were also going into the corps to increase their spiritual sharpness. 7) Wierwille ordained Geer in 1982.......and sent him to oversee Europe. Major schisms were just below the surface of twi.......soon, lots of murmurings were afoot. Martindale got the mantle, wierwille rode away on his harley.....and the rest is history. But yeah.............imo, the corps program evolved into a 'spiritual training / helps & gov'ts' for many years. And, the corps vet t-shirt was a product of that short-lived era. And then, with martindale wanting to 'strut his stuff' as the new president (around 1983....and so on).......you, highway went in-rez at a time when things were more scrutinized. That's why......it's so challenging to compare notes. Every corps year was SO DIFFERENT.

Highway........here are a few more things. 1) Numbers for the 6th corps were around 330 or thereabouts (?)......... 2) By 1977-78......trustees and corps director promoted the corps program as an advanced training for twig coordinators AND for those who wanted to grow strong spiritually. During this time, wierwille was challenging some in the 7th corps to be the FIRST PERSON TO DONATE ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO TWI. While at a branch meeting, one 7th corps person publically announced that he was going to be *that person.* 3) Word in Culture.......was vastly moving thru twi (including the corps)........pro football athletes, bull-fighting rodeo clown (possibly a family corps enrollee?), short novel writers, cartoonists, musicians, bussinessmen, medical field personnel (going corps to be 'stronger in their field of expertise'), military folk, etc. 4) By the 9th, 10th corps.......two married couples were housed together in dorms at Emporia campus. 5) Family corps numbers were expanding as well. 6) NO WAY was twi promoting for all these corps to be region/limb/area/branch leaders........so MANY were going into the corps program, it was NOT possible for all to be assigned areas of work. 7) Don Wierwille was busy heading up Word in Business Conferences.....needed corps/business leaders to address the workshops at these conferences. The corps were 'coming of age' to lead in the business/medical/life sectors. 8) Some military corps went back to MILITARY ASSIGNMENTS.........one corps guy was appointed to the pentagon, another corps guy was assigned to the Middle East theatre. 9) At HQ........the corps were everywhere heading up departments. A few select individuals were privately counseled to go in the corps AND WOULD RETURN TO THEIR JOB AT HQ.....[now spiritually trained better]. 10) Wierwille, on corps night, spent time addressing those "called to helps & governments" (organization).....and further, went on to single out several 4th corps who were ordained clergy and SERVING IN A 'HELP' CAPACITY. 11) The Way Corps Vet t-shirt......promoted and sold at the bookstore to have corps grads front this corps experience to advanced class grads. 12) A monthly Corps Household Newsletter was like 6-8 pages of correspondence......one section documented accomplishments of corps grad achievements in education/medical/military/ awards. When Rev. L0nnel J0hnsxn went on to get his doctorate........it was noted and applauded. 13) Corps evaluations picked up pace around 1984......and corps phone hookups later. 14) IIRC......by about the 15th corps, the pendulum had swung the other way and martindale was significantly aware how their "policies/control" needed to tighten up to the reins...........of course, the corps vet t-shirt concept disappeared. 15) TWI WAS AND IS A MOVING TARGET........ALWAYS DARTING HITHER AND YON.......TRYING TO DESCRIBE ITS EVOLUTIONS IS LIKE TRYING TO HOLD LIQUID MERCURY. <_<

Yeah.....and if that shepherd (pastor) isn't LEADING THEM TO GREENER PASTURES.......he's "killing them softly with containment."

This might be abit .......but here goes Why were wierwille's "stories" ISOLATED OCCURRENCES with hardly anyone around? And, why were most ALL of these stories.......FROM YEARS PAST? No walk, just talk

Ham.......yeah, and even aspiring towards "christian servitude" might spiral downward from there. Having lived and observed the twi "christian service" aspect for THREE DECADES........where is the "christian service" in leading others to a wierwille-idolized mindset? a class-oriented-we-got-the-answers elitist attitude? a self-serving, pocket-lining, community-isolated outfit? an anti-family, spoon-whacking village to raise a child? And, not only "no real job skills"..........BUT widening the chasm OF TIME where these young-uns could tap into scholarship money or apprenticeship programs or military experience TO FURTHER THEIR OWN LIVES. I am an outspoken critic of TWI'S CORPS INDOCTRINATION.........but this trip into Mississippi looks creepier. Why don't they............spend a month loading trucks for a food center to feed the homeless, then spend a month working at a domestic abuse center, then spend a month witnessing, then spend a month helping the elderly........ rather than chopping and stacking wood..??????????

Remember THAT concept??................remember the T-shirt?? :) There are three threads at the moment.....from which I'd like to compile my thoughts on this thread. Those three threads are: 1) Here we go again, 2) The New Corps - sorta, and 3) John Mark. The Corps Vet concept was aligned with the WOW Vet concept........when you graduated from the program, YOU WERE DONE.......i.e. "a veteran." As hundreds went into the corps training (around 1976).......it was publically promoted as "A Lifetime of Christian Service" and that many corps grads would take this learning into businesses, into word in culture. From basically 1977-1982, wierwille and company did NOT label these military/business corps grads as "quitters." What are the expectations (or 'hooks') in the J2P2 corps-style training? Once they complete the program........then what? Will those trainees be "given the blessing of the rural-regimentation" OR will the labeling start? Will they be slandered as QUITTERS......COP-OUTS.......POZZEZZED......MARK-n-AVOID..??? Heck........wonder if those Payne Ohio church leaders thought WIERWILLE WAS A QUITTER?? You see......it's all relative isn't it??? What one sees as "quitting"....another sees as "God's divine calling." Or.............what one sees as "withdrawing"........another sees "that door shutting, another opening." Or.............what one sees as "weakness for quitting".....another sees "the appearance of evil and eschews it." Or.............what one sees as "the word is the ministry and the ministry is the word".......another sees as exploitation and hook-baiting. Gee...........some of us could easily make a case saying that TWI QUIT ON THE WORD.........NOT US..!!!

No wonder there are those way-tree structures.......where husband & wife sit over a splinter group (with a couple of part-time workers)......can sure amass their financial outlook if them followers keep abundant sharing. And, especially......with NO charitable work except "a repetitive teaching ministry." Sure has worked for that "limb".........in canada.

polar bear......yeah, even our 'spare time' was monitored. Talk about a controlling environment.......and, of course the new corps grads twi assigned them to ON GROUNDS HOUSING.....to keep an eye on them. Yuk. During wierwille's time......many of us thought we were on the cutting edge of 'taking the word over the world'.....now, I can't imagine what it would be like to be around twi's hq. Just gotta know "when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em".......guess some are playing a s-l-o-w hand.

Speaking of "Here we go again"......the new *sowers* program... Near the front entrance of the OSC building at twi.....is a mural of George Jess sowing seed. As a sower, Mr. Jess was the first corps director in twi. :blink:

Nice post, Kevlar. That familiar cliche in twi......"The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word"......is synonymous with *we-are-always-right* because we have dr. wierwille's "word." Having "it"......is "having it ALL." I'm inclined to think that narcisstic wierwille felt VERY COMPELLED TO PRODUCE......knowing that Dad Wierwille had spent plenty of money on his education. And, back in those days.......church leaders held admirable respect in the community and wielded much authoritarian rule. Yeah......that's the ticket. Even at his first pastorate, in 1941......wierwille was discouraged and ready to quit. But amazingly.....at his newly renovated office, he prayed that God would show him THE WORD like it hadn't been known since the first century....... and the "pitch-black snowstorm" went down in twi history. Seemingly, the "cross-breeding" (from here, from there) of "the word"......and wierwille's masterful presentation, all hepped on it.......had & has mesmerized the faithful. Wierwille's ministry is synonymous with 'HAVING THE WORD' just like dozens of his contemporaries. In twi's little cornfield in the middle of nowhere.........they cling to their version of "the ark of the covenant." And, inside that "ark"........the pfal series and a bottle of drambuie, touched by the lips of wierwille. <_<

Yeah, Rocky......."tough" would be one way to describe it. Twi has NO IDEA how they sabotage one's career path with their corps indoctrination, their self-serving demands and policies........OR MAYBE THEY DO. I'll pm you.

Yes, t-bone.......imo.....this idolizing wierwille was/is lurking in the belly of the twi-beast. Yet, it is intricately interwoven into the fabric of twi's history, pfal, publications, corps program, etc........and FEW ever step back and recognize it for what it is.......LIKE YOU JUST DID.

When I worked on twi staff back in the late 70s / early 80s.......the first staff meeting I attended was handled by wierwille and company wherein each staffer was given a list of HQ STAFF REQUIREMENTS AND POLICIES. It was strongly suggested that we abide within this framework AND refer back to it often. One strict requirement: No moonlighting while on twi staff. No staffer was allowed to engage in a second job for financial gain.......after all, you were working on a NEED BASIS, and twi was meeting that need (example: "see rhoda"). If a staffer worked at Fleet Services (the auto shop), then he was NOT permitted to work on another's car. If a builder, a carpenter......no pounding nails at another staffer's home for $$$. If you had chickens.....you could not SELL the eggs. Yet, throughout twi history.....VPW IS MOONLIGHTING ON ANOTHER CHURCH'S DIME. In 1942.....vpw's first pastorate in Payne, OH.......Claims that Vesper Chimes was the start of twi. In 1953.....vpw on Van Wert Church payroll..........Taught BG's class (aka first pfal class) in church basement. In 1955,56....vpw travels to England, India, etc.....Still on the Van Wert payroll. June 1956.....meets with "twi board of trustees".....STILL on the Van Wert payroll. THEN......in 1957, according to mrs. w's book......vpw submits his resignation from the van wert church. Thus, from 1941-1957....16 YEARS....wierwille was on the church's dime. And, since twi equates its beginnings in 1942 with vesper chimes, that's 15 years of moonlighting. If twi were HONEST........The Way, Inc. began in 1957. Just another ethical/moral/spiritual issue to add to wierwille's deceptive past.